New Atheism movement is using ATS as a mouthpiece

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posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by SpearMint
 





Atheism isn't an ideology, and it isn't alternative, more people are Atheists than Hindus and Buddists

those who do not belief in God are in the minority for sure.


No, no, no. Those that do not believe in A god are a minority, as are those that do believe in the CHRISTIAN god. That's right, more people believe in one or more of the thousands of other gods than the god worshipped by the most arrogant religion in the world. In other words the vast majority of the world's population do not believe in the Christian god.

And studies indicate that I am correct about more people not believing in a god than Hindus and Buddhists, you claim that I am wrong yet provide nothing to back that statement up. Even if it wasn't correct, it doesn't matter, my point was Atheism is not an alternative ideology.

Around 70% of the world disagrees with Christianity, and that is increasing.

ideology
Noun
A system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political policy: "the ideology of republicanism".

Atheism is not an ideology, if anything it's a lack of an ideology. Atheism is not a belief system.
edit on 10-12-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


You know what? I do not pretend to know what is going on in your head, but it seems you have some sort of fixation on seeing me as an opponent, which I cannot understand.

I saw no disagrement between us, I made no accusation against you of any sort, I have no idea why you are defending yourself to me ......?

I said there are other christians, different from yourself, that attack atheists aggressively and irrationally,
I said there are atheists who attack theists aggressivelly and irrationally,
(both of these I consider "fanatics")

How that opposes you, I do not know. I have already pointed out this twice, so i guess it will do no good to point it out a third time. When people want to percieve an enemy, they do. Period.

If you have some reason to not hear my repeated assertions that I do not consider you a fanatic,
then maybe you have some reasons to consider yourself as included, which I don't know about.
That isn't my business and I don't care to know. But I am not your enemy nor your conscience, so I am going to leave you with that alone.
edit on 10-12-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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LMAO

Why do you even care what people say on a website?

You single out God haters and call them a new name because that makes you feel better about defending your position on God and makes them all look like a-holes. How convenient!

And while you are at it you make yourself look like a saint. Even more convenient!

I don't think your mind is capable of understanding this argument, but give it a shot:

It might seem like you are being attacked because you love God. The truth is that as you go around spewing God talk and demeaning those of a different opinion so you ostracize those you think you are trying to help. People can only handle being chided like a dumb child for so long.

I don't believe for one minute that there is anything on this or other websites that is "Organized" against any religion. I think you made it up or someone of your same belief did and you are passing it around as fact. That is easy for you since there is absolutely no fact in the Bible that can be proven.

I hear a lot of Islam bashi9ng from "Christians" yet all of the people doing that bashing are above reproach for their behavior. If you think that your belief should remove you from reproach for your actions you are sadly mistaken. People don't like Christians because of what Christians DO not because there is some conspiracy. You have made your own bed by your actions and it is justified in my opinion.

And just in case you think I don't know what I am talking about a little history about me. My parents and all of my family are Christian. I was Christian! I was raised Catholic. I was reborn. I graduated from a Catholic university. So please tell me I don't know anything about Christians!

You are part of a religious group who thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. You would love to see America turned into a "Christian" country, in fact, you already think it is one! This country is made up of ALL religions. There is no "Right " religion! All that type of mentality produces is animosity.

I think you and those who act like you are the ones who fan the flames of hatred of your religion. Go ahead and blame some made up opponent if you like, but you only deny any responsibility by doing so.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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There is no need to have a New Atheism movement on ATS. Common sense and logic is all that is needed to deal with religion.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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Hmmpf, I have seen a nice cartoon about this topic the last days, I just can't find it again. Sooooo:


Please, use your inner canvas:
Imagine the priest in the holy mess first preaching to the people, then taking out another book. "Evolution" is the title. He says "And now in the spirit of equal weights, I will tell you about something else."


Which shows to me the unequality in most discussions about religion vs. evolution (there is not even a "vs."!). Never ever may anyone doubt the church, even with so many atrocities and lies and flaws in its history.

Its always just "you just have to interpret the following verses CORRECTLY, heathen!" and then some pages of bible-quotes.

Anyway, why does the religious side always feel so attacked? There is nothing in the theory of evolution that denies the possible existence of god. Ooh, there is no need for him/her/it? Well, but there is no need NOT for him/her/it. So, the theory of evolutions says NOTHING about god.

The fact that evolution is always reduced to "you don't want our (insert any positive adjective here) god, heathen!" shows something else: Religion is attacked.

Not by some theory of evolution. Not even by people who are more satisfied with this theory than with explanations of a god engineering anything and all.

But by people who think that religion (christianity is the loudest one in western forums) has to be defended!

Those are the people who remind anybody that there is a very dark and ugly side to christianity, which had a lot to do with intoleration, narrow-mindedness and simply insanity (thinking that a person could understand and accomplish gods will when no one else seems to understand it that way, see Spanish inquisition).


You don't have to defend you religion. It is the right believe, as you know. There is no need for defense.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Anyway, why does the religious side always feel so attacked? There is nothing in the theory of evolution that denies the possible existence of god. Ooh, there is no need for him/her/it? Well, but there is no need NOT for him/her/it. So, the theory of evolutions says NOTHING about god.



That point of view is one I have noticed is common in Europe. The modern Catholics here tend to find it easier to reconcile science and religion this way. Everyone leave each other alone then.


But I think you misunderstand the conflict in the US- the branches of (protestant based)Christianity there largely are not able to do that because they take the Bible literally. The world literally created in seven days, Adam literally created all of a sudden by God, as was Eve, etc.

That is why evolution is incompatible with the theory of evolution for those Christians.

I think the atheists claim attack just as much though, and can be just as closed minded. Though their claims are more of the type that they experience harrassment, pressure, and suppression in everyday life, not on message boards.

(by the way, for these American Christians, Catholicism is not considered Christian! I know that sounds ridiculous, but I have clashed with people here and on other sites, on that question. - in reference to your "christian" upbringing... )
edit on 10-12-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


I think the problem is mis-characterization on both sides. The religious see atheists as immoral, unquestioning, drones of science who believe they have all the answers. Atheists see the religious as brainwashed, hypocrites, unable to use reason, who believe they have all the answers.

In reality the two sides are much different than the stereotype. Often when one disagrees with another, they discredit the other side as moronic. Both sides have those who are not willing to re-evaluate their beliefs and hear out the other side respectfully.

Believers of all religion have every right to make their beliefs public, and even encourage others to agree. Atheists have this right as well. There is no reason to claw eachothers eyes out.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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Geisterfahrer:

And that would be a good thing since "religionists" as you call it ... believe in the Zoroastrian philosophy of "free will" which would be the opposite of the rabid communist/socialist philosophy running rampant in the Obama administration.


I'm sorry, what? You make absolutely no sense at all! Please clarify.

Hiwatt:

Odd that the atheist supporters on this site seem to always request "proof" when they themselves can not offer any to support their own BELIEFS... yet act as if what they say is right and true because it's "logical".


If it is logical it is worthy of consideration. Logic alone, is not what qualifies atheist thinking, a level of substantial discernment aids in sorting the wheat from the chaff, of grounding thought in real foundations.
You use the word 'beliefs'; you capitalise it as if it makes a point of some kind...it doesn't...it's just an ostentatious display of regurgitating a non-point.
Of course, atheists hold beliefs, beliefs that are not grounded in supernatural absurdity. As for 'proof', atheists don't have anything to prove, that onus is on the religionists. Atheism is simply countering the absurd claims of religionists. The fact that a thing is absurd is proof of its own absurdity...its own 'essence' is evidence.


You talk about not wanting a "religious" person as President, while at the same time speaking as if an atheist would be preferential ... that's called "talking out of both sides of your face."


Alas, I can only speak from the front of my face. No...I wrote that religion and state must forever be separate. Someone like Romney, would preside from his beliefs, he would not be able to separate his alleged spiritual beliefs from essential temporal necessities of the office. An atheist president would be more palatable, but not necessarily make for a good president. That was my meaning, that is what you were incapable of discerning.
Your attempt to belittle my powerful statements with the claim that I 'talk out of both sides of my face' actually denigrate your own argument...it places you in a very poor light.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by lambs to lions
 


Surely you get bored of spreading this absolute crap? Fair enough if you believe in magical men who made everything, i prefer to believe the scientists who devote their lives to discovering how we REALLY got here, not people who read a book that has been re-jigged and translated so many times it could have the opposite meaning now. Religion is slowly sinking, just like belief in witch craft and other silly beliefs us humans have shared over our time on this planet. STOP mentioning your silly beliefs at every possibly moment, no one wants to hear it, besides your dwindling fellow believers, i VERY rarely log in on this website but its getting to the point where i cannot stop myself, no one is telling you that you can't believe, but we don't want to hear it, your beliefs are different to ours, we have no interest in your beliefs, stop trying to cause arguments because your religion is slowly dying out. I was subject to your 'belief' *COUGH* PROPOGANDA TO CONTROL THE MASSES *COUGH* all the way through school and even college, I'm not at the age where i can understand the difference between absolute horse crap, and genuine scientific knowledge. I do not want to hear about it anymore, neither do the other MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of people who have awoken from this rubbish

THANK YOU
edit on 10-12-2012 by freakanature because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by lambs to lions
 




no such thing as the NEW ATHEIST MOVEMENT, ATHEISM has always been around was hidden back in the days because religion is violent in nature and would kill those who dared to question existance.

i wouldnt even call myself an atheist...because we simply do not know, but essentially thats what atheist actually say..logic and reason wins every time over mumbo jumbo..

once you are in a religion you are in the goldfish bowl, best to be out side looking at all the bowls and getting down to real science.

one love



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Wongbeedman
reply to post by lambs to lions
 

If you think there's some kind of atheist "agenda" then you're mistaken.
And its interesting to see you post a Hitchens video after your fellow Christians disgustingly celebrated his death on twitter. I don't mean to paint all of you with the same brush, you've done that to yourself already.


Dear Wongbeedman,

LOL. You have spoken to every Christian and we all believe the exact same thing. You must have a lot of free time, I would never claim that I had spoken to every Atheist. If I take the words of a few and attribute them to all, I will be just like you. You have become the thing you hate.


What I meant by "you've done that already"
You all believe the same general thing. That's what begin a religious person is.
I take the words of the loudest, the Christian "extremists" who are the only ones we hear about nowadays, since the real Christians keep themselves to themselves, and don't try and push their beliefs on others.
I'm not the thing I hate. I hate ignorance and I'm open to any ideas, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant for not agreeing with your beliefs. I started as Christian, moved to atheism, realised its just as bad, and now I'm agnostic-ish



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by lambs to lions
For those who aren't familiar with the term "New Atheism"

New Atheism is the name given to the ideas promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises.

Wikipedia

I would argue that many times there is no "rational" argument involved...

I will start by stating that I am a Christian, and although I am not Catholic, I attend mass two or three times a month. I do this because my wife is a Catholic school teacher and my kids attend the same school. It is a good opportunity to be involved with my family on a spiritual level, and its no skin off my teeth to attend. Next, I would like to say that although I am a believer, I respect those who do not and try not to impress my beliefs on others as I feel that it is counterproductive. Instead, I try to respectfully converse with others when the topics of religion come up. However, I will defend Christianity when I feel it is being wrongly attacked, misstated, or distorted. Now that you know a little about me....

New Atheism is running rampant on ATS. It is a growing form of guerrilla warfare designed to attack religion and deceive the masses. It is fueled by hate and spews misinformation. There is a constant barrage of these anti-religion propaganda threads popping up on this website. Sometimes they hide under the guise of something else; sometimes that are blatant. They almost never have anything to do with an actual conspiracy, alternative news, philosophy, or anything else truly relevant to ATS. This is why I state that the proponents of New Atheism are USING our forums to push their agenda. This becomes apparent when you take notice of the many new members whose first threads pertain to this. T & Cs state that I cannot point out examples of this or name members by name, but most of us are astute enough to take notice.

Now, I know that believing in God, the Bible, and Jesus is not popular on this site. I'm completely okay with that. It gives me an opportunity to engage in many civil and interesting conversations with believers and non-believers alike. What does bother me is when I see so many people whose entire problem with the above mentioned is based on ignorance. Many times their opinions aren't their opinions at all. Meaning they haven't done any kind of reading or research whatsoever on the subjects. This is poor grounds to stand on for any debate, not just a religious one. I see a correlation with these "sponges' who have soaked up the New Atheism agenda with little or no research of their own. Then, turn around like good little soldiers and regurgitate the same, unfounded nonsense.

I think many of you will agree that there is a great many of young minds on ATS. Many of them are searching for answers to a variety of questions. Some of these questions may be of the most profound kind. I'm okay with anyone finding the answers they are looking for, even if I disagree with them. My problem is a movement such as this infiltrating these minds and planting seeds of hate...and by doing so, growing their numbers.

I willingly give my respect as a fellow human to Atheists, who am I to judge? I despise these militant New Atheists, they are paramount to religious radicals. ATS would be much better of without them.

For those interested in a good, educated, and friendly "is there a God?" debate...it is lengthy, but educational. It pits Christopher Hitchens who was one of the worlds foremost Atheist speakers and authors against William Lane Craig, one of the worlds foremost Theologian and Apologist. It takes place at Biola University.

Christopher Hitchens vs. William Lane Craig



The only truths in the Universe are Love and Unity. Everything else is a belief based on perspective, and those beliefs are often ego creations, designed to make yourself right and others wrong, and increase our feeling of separateness - antithetical to the Universal truth.

Most religions are based on beliefs and dogma - hence are not the truth, just ego creations.

Myself, I do not have a belief or faith in God, I know God exits, and I follow the original unadulterated teachings of Jesus. I also know that all religions are man-made ego constructs and false and completely unecessary to know God or help one follow the teachings of Jesus.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by lambs to lions
 


Great thread topic. Glad to see you here.

I think there is a large misunderstanding from Atheists here on ATS. Often, I see them reacting to truth and deflecting this back to the person delivering the truth. This can be a real problem for the Christian. For each person we share this truth and love with, we equally (indirectly) judge them by the reflection of their own lives. This presents a bit of a conundrum for the one sharing the good news. Do we share the truth, knowing how it will make them feel? Do we adjust the truth to fit an easier delivery, or do we just let it all hang out there and hope for the best? Will they see us as their judge or as a messenger coming to help? These are hard questions.

On ATS and many other sites, the person hearing our message will often confuse the object delivering the message and the subject we deliver. The subject we deliver is a sharp two edged sword. It not only judges the Christian delivering the message, but it also judges the person hearing it. This is the point for the Christian. We realize that the words of the Bible cut both ways. We can often look like a hypocrite. For me, it is always important to make sure to mention that we are ALL sinners, equally in need of God's word in our lives. There were two thieves on the cross. Both were guilty. The gift God offers is forgiveness. Of course, we both know this. Saying it suggests that there is a need in our lives. Admitting it is the first step to repentance. Taking the first step is the hardest part for someone who denies truth. Truth becomes the judge. Like I said, the judge is then seen as the person delivering the message. In reality, the message itself is the s(Word).



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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The problem for Christians, as opposed to people with other faiths, is that, often, internet proponents of Christianity tend to be as vocal, judgemental and nasty as anyone from the 'new atheist' camp. To the point that sometimes I genuinely can't tell who is trolling who.

I think Christians need to ask themselves why vocal atheists rarely attack other faiths with the 'vehemence' reserved for Christianity. I don't mean in a 'but they're too scared/PC/left wing to attack Islam' sense, either.

I've never met an atheist that's had a real, serious go at my own beliefs. That's probably because I keep it to myself, don't allow it to impact other people's lives and don't expect my beliefs to be some kind of 'trump' card that beats everyone else on moral grounds or should be the basis of laws that affect everyone.
edit on 10-12-2012 by Merriman Weir because: .



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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Ever notice how atheists never really confront Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism etc...? I don't really think there is such a movement as 'New Atheism' as much as there is a growing intolerance of the intolerance wielded like a weapon by practitioners of the Abrahamic faiths. I think the world is pretty sick and tired of being held hostage by their dogmas and I think the societies in which these practitioners are either the majority or very vocal minority are resentful of the stigma's placed on them for not conforming.

Here in the US I empathize with atheists though I am not one because we are supposed to have separation of Church and State, we are supposed to have freedom of and from Religion but we clearly are not fully there as we are still fighting the label of "Christian Nation".

I have no issue with people being whatever Religion they choose and I respect faiths different from my own as long as they stay out of my face and out of Law.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by lambs to lions
They almost never have anything to do with an actual conspiracy, alternative news, philosophy, or anything else truly relevant to ATS. This is why I state that the proponents of New Atheism are USING our forums to push their agenda. This becomes apparent when you take notice of the many new members whose first threads pertain to this. T & Cs state that I cannot point out examples of this or name members by name, but most of us are astute enough to take notice.


Atheism is a philosophy, and challenging Christianity as a conspiracy perpetrated by extremely powerful world elitists is also a valid approach that is certainly part of the ATS community agenda. I have no issue with Christians (or the Namaste boys) preaching in the Metaphysics forum that their philosophy will cure the reader's ills, so what's the problem with a counter point presentation?

This is an intellectual discussion board. Presenting a direct challenge to stuff like Christianity is what this board is all about. I'm surprised that this isn't obvious to you.
edit on 12/10/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by onecraftydude
LMAO

Why do you even care what people say on a website?

You single out God haters and call them a new name because that makes you feel better about defending your position on God and makes them all look like a-holes. How convenient!

And while you are at it you make yourself look like a saint. Even more convenient!

I don't think your mind is capable of understanding this argument, but give it a shot:

It might seem like you are being attacked because you love God. The truth is that as you go around spewing God talk and demeaning those of a different opinion so you ostracize those you think you are trying to help. People can only handle being chided like a dumb child for so long.

I don't believe for one minute that there is anything on this or other websites that is "Organized" against any religion. I think you made it up or someone of your same belief did and you are passing it around as fact. That is easy for you since there is absolutely no fact in the Bible that can be proven.

I hear a lot of Islam bashi9ng from "Christians" yet all of the people doing that bashing are above reproach for their behavior. If you think that your belief should remove you from reproach for your actions you are sadly mistaken. People don't like Christians because of what Christians DO not because there is some conspiracy. You have made your own bed by your actions and it is justified in my opinion.

And just in case you think I don't know what I am talking about a little history about me. My parents and all of my family are Christian. I was Christian! I was raised Catholic. I was reborn. I graduated from a Catholic university. So please tell me I don't know anything about Christians!

You are part of a religious group who thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. You would love to see America turned into a "Christian" country, in fact, you already think it is one! This country is made up of ALL religions. There is no "Right " religion! All that type of mentality produces is animosity.

I think you and those who act like you are the ones who fan the flames of hatred of your religion. Go ahead and blame some made up opponent if you like, but you only deny any responsibility by doing so.


Actually, it was secular atheists who pushed for allowing other groups that practiced different religions into America. If Americans would of been more zealous in hunting down atheists, America would still be a Christian ultra-ultra-majority nation. The mistake was to be tolerant of people like you, people who would deny and seek to undermine and oppress the rights of lawful Americans to self determination. A bigger mistake would be to listen to the words of a serpent because there is no greater evil than accepting that which is unacceptable, and tolerating that which is intolerable.

Study this individual, and study the arguments made by the serpents, err atheists in the USSR before they began the mass murder of millions upon millions of Christians. Because we are still able to defend ourselves they will use words designed to play off our conscience, but the moment they are allowed to, they will always seek to wipe us out.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 


That's right spread the fear even more. Just like your God.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by korathin
Because we are still able to defend ourselves they will use words designed to play off our conscience, but the moment they are allowed to, they will always seek to wipe us out.


At over 2.5 billion and counting, Christians are the largest single identified group of human beings on this planet. I think that the days of Christian persecution have been over for quite a while now. Lay off the faux dramatics. You guys have been in charge for many, many decades.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by jude11
 


Perception is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I see the anti-religious threads time and time again. I don't see many threads spouting off about "the damn Atheists are holding us back"


A core tenet of your religion is that atheists (among many, many others) are vile, worthy of ridicule, and deserving of eternal punishment.

As a Christian, you accept a book that condones barbarity. Who cares if you come out and say it, by supporting Christianity you support those notions, and, by default, are forced to think very lowly of us infidels.

You don't want a "war", but according to your book you're already in one. "New Atheists" don't want war or division, they just want to get rid of the primitive books that promote them at every turn, and as someone who sees religion as dangerous nonsense, it's hard to argue with them.
edit on 10-12-2012 by humphreysjim because: (no reason given)




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