The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral

reply to post by windword


Ahh...right and wrong paradigm. The fact people can argue about what is right and what is wrong is proof that perceptually each are relative...and therefor neither are in themselves right or wrong...but can only be PERCEIVED that way in relation to ones own perspective.

The OP makes some very valid points and others argue it from a perception that right and wrong are universally accepted truths or beliefs...

One poster said you learn right and wrong through experience....he knew not to steal when someone stole from him and how it made him feel. The ironic thing is that if no one were ever to steal...no one would ever learn that lesson and thus everyone would steal because they haven't learned that lesson. Its circular...by this logic theft is mandatory to eradicate itself...to me that doesn't make much sense at all.

Another "proof" that I often like to use as evidence right and wrong are relative is that very very rarely do we perceive ourselves to be "wrong"...we strive to be right and do right...and we define right and wrong in such a way as to accommodate this. I often use Hitler as an analogy to this as he perceived his own actions to be right and he was doing right by them while others perceived them as being wrong...but neither are universal truths.

We wouldn't know what right is without the contrast of "wrong"...so in order for "right" to even exist...so must "wrong" exist...and the crusade to eradicate one is futile...if you remove one you remove the other. This is how contrast works.

As far as the 10 commandments, they are written with the implication of universal truths and as the OP insinuated are written to be broken as if they were followed...they wouldn't need to exist at all. The mere existence of the 10 commandments implies that its an exercise in futility. The relativity of good and bad, right and wrong, implies that there is no universal obedience to the commandments...

so I would have to agree with the notion that they are unnecessary and irrelevant.

reply to post by jeramie


reply to post by charles1952


Did Jesus break any of the 10 Commandments? Yes. Did he break GOD's commandments? I don't think so. I think Jesus knew that the 10 Commandments had been co-opted by sinister forces and were being enforced abusively.

For example, here, I think we can prove that the intentions of Jesus were to question the status quo of Hebrew tradition. "We can't just blindly "honor our parents" anymore!" this was his message, as he challenged the 5th Commandment.

It's easy to see why they wanted him dead.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;

36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

Matthew 12:46-50 "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus challenges the status quo of the enforcement of the death penalty of stoning youthful rebels, after being accused by the Pharisee of "working" (healing) on the Sabbath.

Additionally, Jesus asks his followers to abandon their false ideas of who God is and what God wants of us, asking them to follow him, above their Yahweh religious "set in stone" dogma.

Jesus never claimed to be Yahweh, his name was Jesus, and we add "Christ." And if Jesus was Yahweh in the flesh, as many Christians assert, then one reason that he came was to make corrections in the way the 10 Commandments were being interpreted, enforced and abused.

So Jesus did break, or challenge the 10 Commandments, the First Commandment, by claiming to be GOD. He broke the 6th Commandment by encouraging youthful rebellion against parental authority. He challenged the Hebrews attitude on 7th Commandment, against adultery, by interrupting a legal execution and releasing the offender without judgement.

And yes, these were men's (biblical) laws, not GOD's.

He continually reminds us that his teachings trump the "God" of the Old Testament, and that HE is the embodiment of the new "risen GOD." He told us that HE is THE WAY, the only way, and following the 10 Commandments just wasn't going to cut it anymore.

Let he that has ears hear, and he that has eyes see, that Jesus was the embodiment of the (lost and forgotten) Torah, the living word of GOD, that will never change, not one word, until heaven and earth pass away.

Amen

(And then, the New Testament, and HIS words, were co-opted by sinister forces................)

reply to post by windword


Your understanding of what Jesus was saying is poor . If you read the whole thing you would know that he was sayinf if you can not cut your ties to the world you can't serve me . Remember the story of Lott ?

reply to post by SimonPeter


Okay. But Yahweh promised worldly wealth. Jesus taught to give up the pursuit of wealth and follow him.

Here I would like to quote a fellow poster's post from another thread, but relevant here too.

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Yahweh promised earthly wealth, conquest and power for the benefit of the Jews alone in exchange for tribute and blood sacrifice yet, the Heavenly Father of whom Jesus spoke, offered spiritual salvation for people all nations through faith and love.

Destroying one's enemies by the edge of the sword was subsituted with praying for one's enemies. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth was replaced with turning the other cheek.

Yahweh:
I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you.
(Gen 17:6)

Christ:
Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” (Mat 4:8-9)

Yahweh:
"But you shall remember Yahweh your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth." (Deu 8:18)
"The blessing of Yahweh brings wealth, and he adds no trouble to it." (Pro 10:22)
"Thus says Yahweh: “The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, and the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over to you and be yours". (Isa 45:14)

Christ:
"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth". (Mat 6:24)

The above demonstrates exoterically. Greek and Hebrew gematria proves things esoterically.
The numerical value for Yahweh; wealth; profit; commandment; and the Holy Ark all separately total 666.
And that is just scratching the surface...


"Woe unto you that desire the day of Yahweh! to what end is it for you? the day of Yahweh is darkness, and not light." (Amos 5.18) "The Day of the LORD is darkness, not light", totals 666 in Hebrew gematria.

"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all." (1John 1:5)

You see Aesir, people are listening after all.

What Jesus taught, his very message, was in complete defiance to the status quo of the traditional Yahweh path of the Hebrews.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

How much understanding do you need to comprehend this sentence? No exceptions or conditions are listed. So exactly what more is there to understand?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Jesus came to separate the chaff from the wheat . Remember Lott ! If you love life more than Jesus you choose life as it is now .Jesus dispelled the notion that his loving countenance was here to save everybody and spread love like the Dali lama . He was here to offer you a chance to be blameless in the sight of God . This was going to be a dividing point between the Jews living under the Law and the Blood of the Lamb . Yes it has turned father against the son and the like . If you had taken time to actually read the bible you would have been able to see what Jesus was doing . A teenager can understant it . But the nit pickers are tripped by their own folly.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Jesus came to separate the chaff from the wheat .

The chaff is only separated after it's been on the threshing floor. Threshing is when 2 worlds meet in contrast, upper against lower, inner against outer. The goal is to become the same, inside and out, above and below, in unity.

Jesus represented the "Christ" consciousness of wholeness and singularity of beingness, one with "GOD." In other words, "Christ" is completely honest and has reconciled the contrast between inner and outer, upper and lower. Christ is the same inside as outside.

To achieve the promise of the fruit, the self replicating seed within, our first action must be death of the ego, as Jesus said. The apple must give up, and let go of the tree and die to the earth before it can be reborn. Such is the death of the ego, necessary for spiritual rebirth toward the unity between heaven and earth.

In my humble opinion, of course.

reply to post by windword


I agree with you on that . The 10 commandments given was like your dad telling you not to do something to define your bounds knowing you were going to do it and he was going to have to spank you for doing so .

reply to post by windword


Believe me, windword, there'd be a whole lot less cognitive dissonance on my part if I could successfully reconcile Jesus and Yahweh...

At first, I completely rejected the Old Testament (after having fully read it, of course). However, the study of gematria ultimately revealed to me its inherent value. Now, if I could confidently say that the OT should exclusively be read allegorically, then perhaps I could conceive of Yahweh's genocidal tendencies as metaphor: i.e. a fiery purification of the flesh; the melting away or swallowing up of the ego in chrysalis towards spiritual regeneration.

On the other hand, the objective study of present and historical Zionism/Yahwism leads me to believe a literal interpretation of the Torah/Talmud is the more correct interpretation.

My gut tells me Jesus was a Gnostic and represented a Father who was altogether different from Yahweh, god of the Jews:

"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father. If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you." (John 8)

Certainly, both Jesus and the Pharisees were aware that the Jews followed the Law of Yahweh to a "T". So is Jesus speaking figuratively here, or, knowing that the Gnostics of the time believed the god of this world to be an evil demiurge, is Jesus conveying that He is the messenger of Abraxas, instead?

reply to post by SimonPeter


Yeah! Agreement is a good place to be.

reply to post by Aesir26


In the 2 hour video by Stan Tenen, of the Meru Foundation, I linked in an earlier post, he cites Rabbis who claim that there are 900 valid interpretations to the first sentence of the first chapter of the Hebrew version of Genesis, that can all be considered correct! He claims that the Torah is "fractal" in nature, that the first letter is a picture of the first word, which is a picture of the first sentence, which is a picture of the first chapter.

The interpretations are given through the breaks and relationships between the letters and the words. He goes on to explain that the Torah is like a Navajo rug, woven with a pattern that can't be seen from close up, but needs to be viewed from a distance. But it's more that letters, it is the embodiment of the "Word" and the Sufi's dance.

Perhaps, all of the Torah, isn't about the stories so much as the hidden code. The stories, he proposes, was a method to preserve the technology of the Torah from would be saboteurs. Because the stories were cool and fanciful, they were preserved, and thus the hidden technology is also preserved.

The rest of his lecture is totally gnostic, with Platonic and Pythagorean logic, modern physics and quantum mechanics integrated into a mind blowing hypothesis. He is able to reconcile Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammad, etal. It's easy to see how Jesus could have been "one with the law" because the "LAW" all that there is, biblical stories aside.

If Jesus was the embodiment of the pure Torah, Christ is the one that we meet on the path of it's meditation. Yahweh is not important and is a temporal deity, but El Elyon, IS the eternal path on the "hero's journey." I'm confident that you are well on your way, on you "path."


www.casttv.com...

The 10 Commandments are nothing more than a cliff notes verison of chapter 125 from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

“Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . . I have not reviled the God. I have not laid violent hands on an orphan. I have not done what the God abominates . . . I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer. I have not caused anyone’s suffering . . . I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste. I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields. I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance. I have not taken milk from a child’s mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage… I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water. I have not quenched a fire in its time . . . I have not kept cattle away from the God’s property. I have not blocked the God at his processions. “

reply to post by ltheghost


Excellent find!

It's uncanny how alike they are to the 10 Commandments! How could it be that the Egyptian culture didn't leak into the newly established Israelites, led by Moses, an Egyptian Holy man?

Originally posted by Carreau
When will you be posting the other threads bashing every other major religion, or is your bigotry limited only to Christians? I eagerly await the Islam is immoral thread next.

Limited to christians, go look at her posts and threads. She's got an axe to grind. That hate is so delicious. I can hear my treasure pilng up.

Just as Balaam cursed Israel for Balaak, her curses will be our blessings.

It's aight though, we will be here for her and help her through her issues. This kind of hate doesn't come without serious mental issues.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What is your point? It's not all rainbows and butterflies. There are consequences for actions.

reply to post by piequal3because14


The ten commandments are a modern marketing concept. They are just the first ten laws of Moses.

In the law of Moses, it is explained what should happen if a man sleeps with his wife's handmaiden and what should be done if a man seduces a virgin.

It is amazing how few people have ever read "the laws Moses."

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Carreau
When will you be posting the other threads bashing every other major religion, or is your bigotry limited only to Christians? I eagerly await the Islam is immoral thread next.

Limited to christians, go look at her posts and threads. She's got an axe to grind. That hate is so delicious. I can hear my treasure pilng up.

Just as Balaam cursed Israel for Balaak, her curses will be our blessings.

It's aight though, we will be here for her and help her through her issues. This kind of hate doesn't come without serious mental issues.

When I read this post, it makes me shake my head in wonder. I must have struck a nerve among the Yahwehian "Archonites!" The only word that comes to my mind is "DEMONIC."

That hate is so delicious. I can hear my treasure pilng up.
Just as Balaam cursed Israel for Balaak, her curses will be our blessings.

CHA CHING!

It's revealing that you believe that your God piles up treasures and blessing for his followers based on the hate they generate from others! What a convenient and clever scheme.

Your itchy greasy hands are so frantically grasping for serpentine "treasure" that you are unaware of the slimy drool sliding down your chin from your arousal! Yuck!

It's aight though, we will be here for her and help her through her issues.

Why do I fell like I need to a week long shower? Your savage attempt to disguise your fiendish impiety by pretending to be a healer doesn't go unnoticed.

This kind of hate doesn't come without serious mental issues.

Indeed! I can only imagine the convulsive fits my posted opinions cause you to writhe in. Where's a herd of swine when you need them?

Lonewolf, you are a perfect example of my hypothesis that "you get the God that you pray to." How did your get your halo so pointy?

reply to post by windword


You did a great job OP of explaining things. S&F for this. You brought up a great point when you stated that Adam and Eve had already learned morality.

In the first place, there really was no need for God to write the Ten Commandments in stone, because, as per the biblical mythology of Adam and Eve, when they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were imbued with an innate morality, and knew right from wrong.

This is a perfect example that shows man already innately knows right from wrong. To me this fact should end any argument stating a need for religion to maintain morality. I am not a believer in the bible however I believe we the human race understand morality and for those who are believers in the bible then their own bible states we do. Their own bible says that it is irrelevant for humanity hold on to these old stories.

I believe religion was once useful and helpful to humanity but now it is one of the major obstacles which keep us from becoming a better society.


I am not really trying to pick on Christianity here I feel the same about all religion however your thread seems to concentrate on Christianity. The points that you made I think are brilliant. I have never sat down to really study the bible I tried once but the hypocrisy gave me too much of a headache. I have never taken it literally either. I just feel you have made an excellent argument to those who believe religion is necessary for morality to continue in the world. To be precise you have just used their own texts showing that morality is part of humanity so says their own books. I will have to bookmark this thread for future reference. Thank you very much.

reply to post by windword


Wow you really did a lot of thinking on this. I s/f not because even remotely agree with you but because of your effort. I will do this in one sentence. The Ten Commandments are nothing more than 10 acts of LOVE.
the first four are acts of loyalty, faithfulness and respect to God. The next 6 are to man be it honor to your parents, telling the truth, not stealing another s property etc etc.

btw honoring your father and mother has nothing to do with being a "push over" or a pansy. Honor is said to be given because it was expected that the parents deserved it. You really are pushing hard to make the word wrong and its your interpritation that is malaligned

reply to post by CherubBaby


Thanks for the S&F and for you input.

btw honoring your father and mother has nothing to do with being a "push over" or a pansy. Honor is said to be given because it was expected that the parents deserved it. You really are pushing hard to make the word wrong and its your interpritation that is malaligned

As a mother and a daughter, I agree with you that honoring ones parents is a righteous thing to do and there's nothing inherently wrong with the commandment. The problem lies in the enforcement of the death penalty against an unruly teenager or mouthy daughter, which is commanded in Mosiac Law. And, it lies with the stifling of new, young ideas for fear of change, in preference of a stale and outdated status quo.

Enforced silence on penalty of death, based on the Sixth Commandment is wrong, I think that we can both agree on that. I hope so anyway.