Ancient Alien Failures...

Originally posted by yorkshirelad
My problem with aliens helping our ancestors theory is why the hell stone !
1. An alien visiting here MUST have technology that is more advanced than ours today.
2. The aliens would have been seen by our ancestors using said technology and thus the aliens are not hiding anything.
3. Put 1 and 2 together then you have to ask "why the hell stone". If you are going to interfere then why not use carbon fibre, nanotubes etc even we have that! imagine what materials aliens would have and would know how to make it and would teach our ancestors how to make it.

How coincidental that the aliens just happen to use their advanced technology to manipulate the (human) material of choice at that point in time ie stone.

I thought about the reason for stone and I came up with the idea that they would have used stone because it was so readily available. It makes no sense to come here and try to mine and smelt metals in foundry's.

We use metal and now carbon fiber because it's so much easier to work with and lighter and makes it more efficient. "If" (now thats a big if) the weight of the stone wasn't a hindrance and you came from far far away, you would absolutely use stone that not only is already readily available but the quarries are already open and being used.

reply to post by XLR8R


Interesting theory my friend, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post, regardless of it's validity or not, it's a neat idea.

Because if we were to compare modern Humans work to the ancients, even today we would be left sorely lacking...

The pyramids still stand, after more then 2000 years, I wouldn't give a " modern " skyscraper more then...
( guess ) 250-500 years max without yearly maintenance they would just crumble to the ground...


Anyway, nice post






SS

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer, I'm a big believer of the Ancient Alien theory, but I will say that the show on the History Channel sometimes gets a little "out" there with the theories they present.

But anyways, I would like to get your take on a few areas that make me question whether or not aliens came here once upon a time ago... For starters, I'd like to get your take on Puma Punku. Do you believe ancient man made those precise cuts by himself? They are so precise you would think that machining was happening. Also, what's your take on the Nazca Lines? Do you believe it was more of a spiritual walk for the nazca people or do you believe they created those for the aliens from above?

I could honestly go all day with things of the past that make me question...... I guess what it comes down is either you're one who gives mankind all the credit in the world for doing some incredible things (Pyramids, Puma Punku, etc.) or you believe that they received some sort of outside help... I believe that mans dealt with Aliens and UFO's for a very LONG time, but that's just me,,,,and Giorgio Tsoukalos

reply to post by SLAYER69
I have a theory......Perhaps man had an idea.....and figured out how to do it! seems like we've been doing that for sometime now.....I'm not saying there aren't Aliens....I just think we need to give a little more credit to the Human Race! ......Whats next....Aliens built the Colosseum? I think we are capable of doing amazing things.....

reply to post by SLAYER69


I would think if ancient aliens came here to 'build' things they'd use a technique never seen before. Like for instance a machine that can turn sand into a building with high heat... I really never understood why such an intelligent race would use stone, it lasts for a long time I know but so do other substances. I never bought into it, probably never will.

I wouldn't construe "incomplete" as a "failure".

Who knows? What if the explanation was as simple as:

The alien government held an election. There was a party change and the funding for extra-planetary structures was cut and all construction was ordered halted immediately.

I'm not saying that's what happened....I'm just looking at another angle.

I agree that the show trys to explain lots of things that happened to ancient aliens. But there are some things that still remain unsolved. Such as the giant blocks cut to such a close tolerance that even today experts say they can't duplicate.

Since none of us were there to verifty any of the shows information we can only take it at face value. The real mysteries to me are the visual artifacts such as cave drawings and reliefs that seem to show people in some type of suit or setting in some type of machine. I guess they have to make some amazing claims in order to make the shows interesting.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by thegrayone
Advance technology refers to a technology that a time period had but was not supposed to have, or wasn't discovered until hundreds of years later.

That is the definition you apply to it. I have in past posts stated by advanced technology I mean that rivaling our own today. By your definition, we could have a wonderful debate and I would love to hear what technology you believe they used. I am intrigued. Unfortunately that is not what people here on ATS typically mean. Many here believe there have been many 'Advanced Civilizations' (such as Atlantis) that surpassed our level of technology, and these civilizations have come and gone through the history of the Earth. We are currently on a rebuilding period and not at the level of technology we have been at in the distant past. Many here also believe Pumapunku is far older than the 1500~ or so years old that it is, thus the fascination with it.

Refer to this post.

Originally posted by ouvertaverite
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

would it be the easiest explanation that stone age people who gained advanced scientific knowledge might be telling the truth when they invariably explain that sky gods instructed them? or were they liars and hallucinators that somehow nonetheless miraculously constructed things we can't match (or even move such monoliths as used) today and invented calendars that have only been rivalled for accuracy by computers?

you're not one of those pro 'skeptics' who has all the answers before the questions, are you?

Your definition of advanced technology is just like my definition! The technology we have today was not suppose to exist back then, at least not with those stone age people. We have no evidence it did, but it could have. I'm open for it. Past advanced civilization? Yes, sure. I already stated that that is a possibility. We have stone age people living today. Maybe, those who were very advanced back then were a small group, a couple of millions, who lived separated from the rest of the world in their own island and a catastrophe killed them off, or got up and left. Today we have more advanced people than stone age people.

In my opinion, I don't believe those stone age people built non of that stuff, so I can't explain how they did it. If advanced people were present and build those monuments, which that is what I believe, they may have technology as advance as we have today or more. I could try to explain how they did it using the technology we have today, but I can't make up technology that I don't know. just like I can't describe the 4th or 5th dimension if I haven't been there and I don't have a point of reference for it.

In regards to you referring me to that post, I agree completely with it. As a matter of fact, I stated that on my previous post. The ancient themselves don't take credit for non of those feats, but they do talk about stars people creating humans.

A great book to read on the subject is "Twilight of the gods" by Erich Von Daniken.

The reason why Ancient Aliens fails is because every chance they get , they spam that there is no way humans are can not be from Earth. Yes, some of the ancient constructs are very mysterious. And so is the art of our ancestors. But I have yet to see the show that states why evolutionary mechanisms could not allow for humans to evolve from apes. It seems to be a very far fetched cornerstone of the show.

let's all be honest here..

the simplest, and probably even the deepest reason on why so many people seemingly WANT to believe that these kind of things will happen,
is because most people are more inclined/willing to believe, and have ALREADY believed in all those "fantasy, magical, & out-of-the-real-world" things about these whole Ancient Aliens things!
that the human's Imagination is always far 100x much more interesting & vivid/lively and full of variety (not to mention much more mysterious, and fascinating!),
rather than this seemingly mundane, "dry", boring everyday's reality or "real-world / real-life" .

reply to post by SLAYER69


Its evidence regardless of how you interpret it. There is nothing wrong with the theory.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Hi SLAYER,
I would like to point out that I am not trying to bolster a pro "Ancient Alien" theory yet I am open minded to the possibility.

I have several questions pertaining to the site in Lebanon, Baalbek or Heliopolis. The evidence seems to indicate an older site that the Romans built upon.

Location- Why would the Romans build such a huge temple with these massive stones in such a remote location? Perhaps this was the location of a much older and sacred site which would make it valuable to the Romans.

Building style- As far as I know the Romans didn't build with such massive stones anywhere else. Why use stones as big as the ones found here, considered the largest human moved stones found on Earth, and nowhere else? This also seems to indicate a previous older site that was built upon again...and again. This building upon older sites that were considered sacred is found all over the world so we know it does happen.

Building limitations of the Romans- These limitations are evident by the size of their other temples and structures. The huge stones at Baalbek seem to be far beyond these limitations. Compare the Roman transportation of 300+ ton Egyptian obelisks with the 800-1200 ton stones of Baalbek. Is there any evidence, outside of Baalbek, that the Romans were able to move stones as massive as those found in the foundation walls?

Size of stones and their placement- The drawing below that you posted intrigued me...

...so I googled some images.

I see a stark contrast between the lower foundation stones, both of the large stones in the middle and the smaller ones below them, to the much smaller stones on top. Not only are the sizes different but their placement is also very different. Here is another image showing the new addition of stones on top of older ones.

It is clear that these two walls were build at very different times. Notice how the erossion of the lower blocks were compensated for with the upper blocks and put into place accordingly. The newer upper wall was built at a later time by the Arabs yet the lower foundation stones seem out of place even when compared to the Roman construction. It is the size of the stones, the way they were placed and the different weathered look that seems to give evidence to a much more ancient site. Could these foundation stones have weathered that much in the time between the Roman construction and the Arab's? We could compare the weathering of the foundation stones with known original Roman structures in that area.

Historical records- The Romans were known for taking technology and making it their own and even boasting about their achievments.
Is there any record of the Romans hewing and placing the foundation stones of Heliopolis?
Is there historical record of this site being built prior to the Romans?

Modern archeological opinion- The opinion of archeologists is that the Romans built this site (period!). We all know how the blind eye of science can be and the idea for the possibility of this being a site that predates the Romans is upsetting scientifically. If this is the case then where is the evidence of this earlier civilization? Could it be that traces of this prvious civilization was destroyed by a major catastrophy like a large flood? Too much biblical history for science to take seriously I suppose.

More info here.

reply to post by SLAYER69

It got stuck and was abandoned in place and never moved.
Another ET fail?

Again, as you can plainly see it got stuck where it's at and they couldn't move it. Yet, they continued building the temple unabated just switching to smaller blocks. Here you'll see the other giant blocks at the base.

You are forgetting the timeline here. First there is no evidence that the "Pregnant Stone", in the above image, got stuck rather that it was simply abandoned or for some unknown reason was left where it is. The fact remains that stones of similar size were hewn and placed on the Baalbek site.

The historical timeline tells us that the Romans built their temples on this site and then later the Arabs. It was apparently the Arabs that built the "fortress" walls on top of these massive stones. It is very clear that these two constructions were at very different times. I don't think this means the Romans abandoned these large stones because they were "stuck" to then use smaller stones because it was easier. Someone put those very large foundation stones down and people have been building/rebuilding on this site ever since.

It is well known that the Romans plagiarize technology and made it their own. The Romans were also know for keeping extensive historical records of their achievments. It is also know that ancient sites, considered sacred, were built/rebuilt upon. And finally we know that archeologists tend to dismiss evidence that doesn't fit the established theory.
I think I'll follow Occum's razor on this one and conclude that this site is more ancient and far more complicated than we were first lead to believe.

To all the AA supporters...

That have not read the whole thread but simply reply on the premise that I'm a AA debunker and to just to flip everybody's noodle....


In the next day or two I'll be posting my "Pro-Ancient Alien" thread. In it I'll present what I believe are some real mysterious locations and possible evidence of Ancient Visitations

What was certainly interesting for me were the Hindu Gods, with what I honestly think is interesting innuendo and ambiguous references. However all this about temples and Nazca Lines and Tsoukalos' hair seems to be just filler since they need 50 series and 1,200 episodes of it. Or perhaps Giorgio and Childress truly are that barking.

reply to post by SLAYER69


My one objection is time. When were such structures broken? Is there anyway for your or anyone else to tell when such massive structures fell to the ground? It could be possible that they were broken during creation and have lain there since then or that they broke sometime between that time and today....How do you know when they broken or how long they have lain there?

reply to post by Devino


It does make one wonder if those huge stones belonged to an ancient civilization predating the others. I have wondered at the advance and fall of civilizations and if ancient aliens weren't involved in some of these "super" structures then perhaps an ancient form of advanced civilization existed before most people think. Think of Atlantis or something along those lines....some advanced civilization predating most ancient civilizations we know that was probably global and formed the basis for a lot of ancient cultures from the Sumerians to the Egyptians to the Mayans. I have seen videos suggesting advanced civilizations could have existed 50,000 years ago and in our modern era there is simply not enough evidence from that civilization other then ancient structures to evidence such.

Which really isn't that surprising to me, because either that civilization moved on to colonize space or died out and if it died out then any number of things could have happened to artifacts proving such. However, I don't know how much I buy such a theory simply because I think any advanced civilization, even one that old, would have left behind some form of metal machinery and even rusted it would obvious if it was a complicated metal structure created by men. Unless such a civilization somehow outgrew the use of metal infrastructure a lack of metal machinery is at best suspect. But, that's a topic for another time. Merely wanted to speculate.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm going with the fact of 'Life after Humans' theory.....With earth it has been around who the heck knows.. People will destroy it again sometime somehow.. The only thing that holds proof we were here and than gone are some stone structures that stood up sometime ago.
On a final note regarding the other planets within our solar system who's to say we didn't live their either at one point or another. Or maybe we moved onto some other vast civilization within the solar system, does that make us aliens (humm ) not certain.
To have so many ppl lie or tell truth about seeing something or the government covering it up whatever your choice it's clear to say there are just too many cases that can't be explained to say 'something else may live outside our universe'
just throwing out thought provoking ideas at ya's ...

Originally posted by starshift
My theory is that these ancient civilizations stem from Atlantis. I feel that certain inhabitants fled before the catastrophe and they carried off world technologies or had unique knowledge which they later used to rebuild.

I was lucky to see a lot of those formations in Peru this year and they truly are amazing.

edit on 9-12-2012 by starshift because: add

Im with you, and i still dont believe its a coincedence pyramids were built all over the world, with the same kind of building techniques ofcourse all with their own relatively small differences. And the fact that thousands of years old civilisations all adopted the same kind of gods and religious stories.

I hope were going to find out in my lifetime if this really were the inhabitants of Atlantis who spread their knowledge, aliens, gods or just coincedence. But i think we wont because of all the propaganda of todays media, theyll keep it quiet because they dont want us to learn or be curious/ think outside of boxes.

reply to post by wdkirk

Originally posted by wdkirk

This looks like a failure for sure.

Yes as that's a bathtub ark, a work of fiction. Completely inaccurate to how the Bible describes it.

Here's what Noah's Ark actually looked like:



Take a read:
Bath tub arks