Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

do you know what a favor I have done for you by opening this thread? Consider what has been written.

Do you not watch movies or have you not studied it enough as you say to know the devil is all about giving favors?

Your a funny guy/gal

Let go of the demons and enjoy the moment for that's all we really have.

What do demons have to do with enjoying life anyways? You can enjoy life just as well whether you know about them or not. This life is irrelevant the flesh is of no avail the spirit is all that matters. That is a part of my beliefs.

I suggest you do more research and stop watching movies. The devil is all about stealing love. It uses multiple tactics to do that. Love does not equal enjoying life btw.

And one of those tactics is offering favors or telling others that they have done them a favor, why do you follow in the footsteps of this devil you talk about?

Earlier the only favor or mistake on your part you did which would benefit my understanding is exposing yourself

reply to post by InhaleExhale


Really? Your logic is flawed if you care to know how ask. I doubt you do, it appears you are trying to make jokes.

Expose myself?

YOU GOT ME

I am a believer in Jesus Christ, the Gospel, and the Holy Catholic Church.

Originally posted by Saurus

Since God (through Jesus) clearly did most of his teaching through parables and allegory, is it not plausible that the Satan/demon concept was also an allegory to make people do what is right.

Some people need reward to do what is right. Others respond better to fear. Is it not plausible that God would have used the reward of heaven to entice some to do what is right, and the allegory of Satan to 'scare' others into doing what is right, since at the end of the day, different people react differently to different stimuli?

Especially considering that almost everything else that he taught was done by allegory.


[quote ]Also funny was the "As a high level mason"

By Mason standards, I am a high-level Mason. By anti-Mason standard's, I'm a low-level 'sheep' who is not aware of the 'secrets' of the 'higher degrees' because I am not a Scottish Rite Mason.

Take your pick...

edit on 12/12/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Well, there are a couple of points I would like to bring up here.

1) In my belief's Jesus and the Father are on entity, they were separated to an extent during Jesus's time here.

2) No that is not plausible, God does not lie. Jesus spent a lot of time healing, and a lot of time casting out demons. If God simply wanted to scare people why not just threaten them with disease? Demons seem unnecessary. Furthermore, like I already said you can not fully understand our Salvation (in my belief, which the RC Church agrees with) without understanding what demons are and acknowledging their existence. Especially Satan. If you would like me to go into detail about that part, just ask. I understand you do not believe as I believe but it might appeal to the scholar in you.

3) I would invite you to read a Roman Catholic Parish Edition and see what we think about it. Most of the Bible is not figurative or meant to teach *just* lessons, it is mostly historical and meant to show us how our Salvation came to be. That's right, I just called the Bible a history book - the Scripture in it was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (God). It is not just a book that lights the path to Eternal Life, it is also historically factual. It is hard to put IMO after that, because that is (to me) like saying 2+2=4 but only in my opinion though.

I understand that the existence of demons has caused severe over reaction and horrific sin in man, but that fact does not make them go away.

None of God's allegory was a lie. If you have a question about a piece of Scripture you think is just made up by God to scare us, please provide it and I will do my best to explain. I understand you do not believe as I do, you have to understand that I am incapable of talking about this like it is theoretical. That is why I word things the way I do.

BTW, Satan has people in the Church in Africa working on his team. Those "deliverance" ministers that point out children and call them possessed and have them cast out - if I ever got my hands on one of those guys I would end his life with a quickness. You can take that literally. I mention that because if I remember right you posted that you are in Africa.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
None of God's allegory was a lie.

But it was allegory. People who interpret it literally don't get it.

reply to post by JoshNorton


You must look to the Church's teaching on the passages. Sacred Tradition and the teachings of the apostles, saints, and doctors of the Church are all important to understanding the Scripture.

You are definitely right, the Bible is not all literal. The parts about the demons are.

Let me ask you this - do you believe that Angels are real?

edit: I have to go soon, I will be back to check for responses later.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You are definitely right, the Bible is not all literal. The parts about the demons are.

Let me ask you this - do you believe that Angels are real?

Again, realize this is my own personal opinion and not the position of Freemasonry, ATS, or anybody else...

No. I don't believe in angels or demons or Satan. The God I believe in is all powerful. If the good that happens in the world is part of His design, then the bad that happens in the world is also part of His design. He doesn't need henchmen doing his bidding. If he did, he wouldn't be all-powerful.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
No. I don't believe in angels or demons or Satan. The God I believe in is all powerful. If the good that happens in the world is part of His design, then the bad that happens in the world is also part of His design. He doesn't need henchmen doing his bidding. If he did, he wouldn't be all-powerful.

That's kind of weak. We can't know what God needs (or wants) to do to fulfill his plan. God creating a demon to do evil takes no more power from God than him creating a virus to kill (that is, none at all). Both are simply ways for God to get his bidding done.

Originally posted by almadd2012

Originally posted by JoshNorton
No. I don't believe in angels or demons or Satan. The God I believe in is all powerful. If the good that happens in the world is part of His design, then the bad that happens in the world is also part of His design. He doesn't need henchmen doing his bidding. If he did, he wouldn't be all-powerful.

That's kind of weak. We can't know what God needs (or wants) to do to fulfill his plan. God creating a demon to do evil takes no more power from God than him creating a virus to kill (that is, none at all). Both are simply ways for God to get his bidding done.

You are confused about some things here.

First, you are right we definitely can not understand or predict God's will unless He tells us.

God did not create demons. The reason I brought up Angels to him is because demons are simply fallen angels. If he believed in Angels, I would find it weird for him to not believe in the existence of demons. Their heirarchy is even described by the same terms - powers,virtues and so on.

Demons out of their own free will followed Satan and rebelled against God. They are now beyond redemption.

God created all things good. Now in our world (dimensions?), decay and death were brought in through a deception of Satan. He convinced Eve to take the fruit, and she gave it to Adam as well. Because of this disobedience to God, we are now accountable for original sin. This is passed on in our genetics.

God did not create a single evil. God = truth = love. Satan = lies = hate. Satan lies to create hate. God is Truth to create love.

I hope that helped clear that up for you.

Norton you do not have to leave a disclaimer. As long as you don't start trying to convince people Satan is not real and then keep pressing the issue, it does not look bad. Nothing wrong with making a case for your position. Pressing the issue and being deceptive is when it looks bad. You can see the difference right?

It is worth noting that only 1/3rd of the angels followed Satan. Satan was an Archangel. St. Michael the Archangel is the new Archangel, and will be the one who ties Satan up in revelations and eventually casts him into the fire.


You have 2 out of 3 spirits that affect your life everyday trying to help you. It is a belief, not dogma, in the Church that every person has their own guardian angel. There is quite a bit of evidence for this.




I forgot to mention the Archangel Gabriel and the Archangel Uriel. They definitely should get shutouts any time this topic is discussed. People forget about them a lot and focus on St. Michael. I am guilty of that as well.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Because of this disobedience to God, we are now accountable for original sin. This is passed on in our genetics.

Where in the DNA strand is original sin located?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Because of this disobedience to God, we are now accountable for original sin. This is passed on in our genetics.

Where in the DNA strand is original sin located?

Excellent question. ALL OVER. Haha.

Men who think they can understand God and all of His creation are sadly mistaken.

Think about the infinite nature of the scale of the universe. You can get infinitely smaller, or infinitely larger. There are as many stars in our galaxy as grains of sand on Earth! I can not even wrap my mind around how big Texas is let alone a star!!
Now, we are finding out there are just as many galaxies in the universe as there are grains of sand on Earth as well. You have been show infinite creation and you think we will be able to understand EVERYTHING through science? Maybe in a billion years, and only if God allows. By then you and I will hopefully be in Heaven.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Excellent question. ALL OVER. Haha.

So to that point since Baptism absolves original sin how is the DNA of a non-absolved person differ from that of an absolved person? What are the specifics and how do you identify them?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Excellent question. ALL OVER. Haha.

So to that point since Baptism absolves original sin how is the DNA of a non-absolved person differ from that of an absolved person? What are the specifics and how do you identify them?

Another excellent question.

When we are Baptized it removes the *temporal punishment* for original sin until the baptized person falls out of Grace (which will happen with everyone). Since time is but a dimension of reality God created for us, God is not bound to time. Furthermore, God is not bound to His Sacraments at all - we are as Catholics. As for non-Catholics I have always said "without law there can be no transgression". I do no think Protestants and so on are in any extra danger for Eternity, I do believe they would benefit in this life from the Sacraments and Sacramentals.

The Virgin Mary, conceived without sin, would have had no genetic defects because she would never sin in the future. This is my personal take on Original Sin btw, and not a teaching of the Church. I generally adhere to what the Church teaches, but sometimes I draw my own assertions with logic.

If you want more detail or specifics than that, you would have to ask God. Whether he will see fit to tell or show you who knows.

Also, God uses original sin to our advantage. Our specific, individual genetic defects are a blessing if they help us find eternal life where we otherwise would not have. All things work the for the good of believers.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
When we are Baptized it removes the *temporal punishment* for original sin until the baptized person falls out of Grace (which will happen with everyone).

My questions were specifically in regards DNA as you said this is heriditary. How does the DNA change from its original sin state to its absolved state and what are the specific indicators in the DNA strand, i.e. how can I tell the difference in a laboratory of the DNA strand from a sinner from that of a non-sinner?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
When we are Baptized it removes the *temporal punishment* for original sin until the baptized person falls out of Grace (which will happen with everyone).

My questions were specifically in regards DNA as you said this is heriditary. How does the DNA change from its original sin state to its absolved state and what are the specific indicators in the DNA strand, i.e. how can I tell the difference in a laboratory of the DNA strand from a sinner from that of a non-sinner?

Please respond to each point I bring up. I understand that individual sentence does not adequately answer your question.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Please respond to each point I bring up. I understand that individual sentence does not adequately answer your question.

I am not interested in the points you brought up, only direct answers to my questions regarding DNA and the heriditary aspect of original sin. They were rather specific.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Please respond to each point I bring up. I understand that individual sentence does not adequately answer your question.

I am not interested in the points you brought up, only direct answers to my questions regarding DNA and the heriditary aspect of original sin. They were rather specific.

You should re read the posts. It all ties in together. You can not see the puzzle if you only have one piece. I get the feeling you do not take the time to read and consider most of the posts I make, which is part of the reason for the confusion. That is just a guess, but it does seem that way.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You should re read the posts. It all ties in together. You can not see the puzzle if you only have one piece.

Can I assume that you have no intention of answering the specifics of my questions regarding DNA and heriditary aspects of original sin?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You can assume that you are being deceptive, or you are just plain and simple not reading the posts. If you understood everything I said, you would not be asking that question. There are questions you would ask, but this one has already been covered.

I could provide scientific evidence that your entire reality is based on faith, but you could refute it with a different position on said evidence.

There is no scientific law that you can see the effects of sin in DNA or that absolution of sin causes a change in DNA. Also, sin and original sin are different. That would be why I said I drew the conclusion on my own. I am sure if I looked, I could make something look like it is evidence though. Does that answer your question?

While we are at it, can you explain to me the exact mechanism that causes mass to generate gravity along with an explanation of exactly why and how gravity works? There is still gravity is there not?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
There is no scientific law that you can see the effects of sin in DNA or that absolution of sin causes a change in DNA.

Then how can anyone honestly state that it is heriditary?

While we are at it, can you explain to me the exact mechanism that causes mass to generate gravity along with an explanation of exactly why and how gravity works?

Gee, I thought you would ask me a hard question.

The theoretical particle for the tranference of the gravitational field is the gravition. A massless (similiar to a photon) spin-2 boson which would cause the properties of gravitation as a stress-energy tensor. This interaction between the spin-2 particle and the stress-energy tensor causes the graviational field which affects space-time on a localized level dependant upon the amount of gravitons present in said locality.

In String Theory (Supersymmetry) the fact that the graviton must be a closed string without end points would mean that it would not be bound to any particular 'brane' (see M-brane theory) and would be able to traverse between multiple branes. This bleeding of the gravitational energy between branes would also account for the rather weak properties of gravity itself, e.g. you ability to jump up while counteracting the earth's entire mass.


Now that I have answered your question maybe you can have the common courtesy of answering mine.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I missed that part where you provided evidence. Where did you answer my question? I don't buy into the theory of evolution either. I could theorize just about anything. I was looking for scientific evidence obviously, which you did not provide.

To answer yours, I have more faith in God than science.

I do love membrane theory whenever I read or hear about it. Same with string theory. Very interesting theories.