Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

reply to post by Saurus


I like you Saurus, because you are handling my questions and opinions with a lot of respect without sacrificing you own dignity. You could very easily be a great advocate FOR the Freemasonry voice and teach others rather than talk down and throw stones.

Lot's of respect to you as an individual

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Oh well, that counts me out. Still might be nice to bridge the gap between the Church and Masons to create a better world.

The Church wants nothing to do with us and personally, I like it that way.

This post got 6 or 7 stars. You are not a group of men interested solely in benefiting the world, and tbh many in the Church feel the same. Me Me Me, not how can I help you and you and you and you?

Oh well. None of us were alive back when all this hate started, so why continue it? IDC no point in talking to this group of men. They clearly do not care about a better tomorrow for the world, only for Masons and those they find favorable. Sad part is, you will find the same attitude in the Church sometimes.


Keep ego tripping, after all - you only live once right?

reply to post by Saurus


Masonry is not for Christians who are unwilling to break the 1st commandment. I am barred from joining because I will not pray with those who are praying to false gods.

I can't believe Christians don't ever beg the question - who are we praying to? The One God, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Could a Christian Mason define "false god" in the Bible for me? I am interested. It ties in closely with that one really important thing...what was it again? Oh yes - the 1st commandment.

To force Christians to say that prayer, with no option of remaining silent, is to force Christians to act against their faith unless they are non-denom and do not understand that there are known truths in our Faith....

eta: Oh I'm sorry, those who believe that Avatars are God...they have an excuse I guess You would think God would have mentioned that somewhere in between warning us of false gods and false Christian teachers. Still without law no transgression. I hope you do not have the Law in you, for if you do it is a transgression as far as I can see.

reply to post by NarrowGate
Here is a website that has most if not all the prayers ever used in Freemasonry.

Masonic Lodge Prayers

What in any of these prayers specifically do you interpret as breaking the first commandment?
Do you refuse to say the Pledge of Allegiance with those who don't share your Faith? What if you are sitting down to share a meal with those of another Faith and they say a prayer over the food, do you bow your head and pray to God as you know him or do you stand up and walk away? When you are at a funeral to pay respects for a dead friend who belongs to another church, one that doesn't believe as you do, do you pray as you were taught or do you walk out because you can't pray together with those of other religions?

reply to post by NarrowGate


Do you honestly believe that everyone who prays to God, but doesn't do so like your church does is praying to a false God? Like a Hindu, or a Muslim? What if they say the same thing?

you might want to watch this.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Here is a website that has most if not all the prayers ever used in Freemasonry.

Masonic Lodge Prayers

What in any of these prayers specifically do you interpret as breaking the first commandment?
Do you refuse to say the Pledge of Allegiance with those who don't share your Faith? What if you are sitting down to share a meal with those of another Faith and they say a prayer over the food, do you bow your head and pray to God as you know him or do you stand up and walk away? When you are at a funeral to pay respects for a dead friend who belongs to another church, one that doesn't believe as you do, do you pray as you were taught or do you walk out because you can't pray together with those of other religions?

1. If you pray with those praying to false gods, in unison with them, you are violating the first commandment.

2. The Pledge of Allegiance is not a prayer...

3. I just don't say the prayer with them? I have no problem remaining silent while the prayer is said. I have a problem violating the first commandment and praying with them, in unison with them. You dig? I have nothing against them, just their false gods.

4. All of my friends are Christian except one or two acquaintances. If they were not, I would pray for them to God - not a false god. Whether or not others are doing that does not matter, because I am not saying a prayer in unison with them.

I thought the answers would be obvious...oh well.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Do you honestly believe that everyone who prays to God, but doesn't do so like your church does is praying to a false God? Like a Hindu, or a Muslim? What if they say the same thing?

you might want to watch this.

Hindu? YES. This is Idol worship(duh?) Muslim IDK, I would not pray with them just to be safe. I would have to know more about them beforehand. A Jew? I could pray with a Jew, but I would do so in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Could a Christian Mason define "false god" for me? Or would this be to preempt God in your opinion?

If so, why did God warn us to have no false gods infront of Him? If we could not discern the difference...

My church? The Christian Church - specifically Catholic. I can pray with any Christian though.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Could a Christian Mason define "false god" for me? Or would this be to preempt God in your opinion?

Masonry does not define God or religion. It only asks that you believe in God. So I don't think there is such a thing as a masonic definition of a false God. Your beliefs are quite incompatible with masonry. It's not a crime and hell, you might just be right. But I am not willing to bet my eternal life on it.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Could a Christian Mason define "false god" for me? Or would this be to preempt God in your opinion?

Masonry does not define God or religion. It only asks that you believe in God. So I don't think there is such a thing as a masonic definition of a false God. Your beliefs are quite incompatible with masonry. It's not a crime and hell, you might just be right. But I am not willing to bet my eternal life on it.

When did I claim to know this puts your eternal life in jeopardy? Without law, no transgression. This is in the Scripture, of course that does not mean you are not putting yourself in jeopardy. I can not know that.

As for the rest, it would appear that Masonry is completely incompatible with Christianity. That is unless, a Christian Mason can give me a definition of false god. A Christian Mason who believe the Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and not just a set of moral guidelines.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

That is unless, a Christian Mason can give me a definition of false god. A Christian Mason who believe the Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and not just a set of moral guidelines.

OK, since you are a Christian, perhaps you could clear up the following issues regarding false Gods for me first...


1) The bible says:
"There is only one God."

The Bible also says:
"You shall not worship any other God."

How is it possible to worship any other God if there is only one? Doesn't this feel contradictory to you?


2) The Hindu concept of Avatars is identical to the Holy Trinity in Christianity. Christians believe that the Holy Trinity are three different manifestations of the same God. Likewise, Hindus believe that there are many manifestations of the same God.

Christianity:
"Hear, oh Israel, the lord thy God is one." (Old testament)
"...indeed God is one" (New testament)

Hindu:
"There is only one God, not a second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit." (Brahma Sutra)

Quoted straight from the Holy Books of each religion - don't say that Hindu's believe there are many Gods. Hindu scriptures are explicit in the fact that there is only one God with different manifestations.

I have no problem if someone says that both Christianity and Hindu are polytheistic. Likewise, I have no problem if they say that both are monotheistic, but for someone to say that Christianity is monotheistic while Hindu is polytheistic is hypocritical. Theologically, the concept of different manifestations of God within the two religions is identical - Hindu just has more manifestations.

reply to post by NarrowGate


I have a question for you as well. I grew up Catholic. I would to to confession and be given penance. Sometimes it would be to say 4 Our Father's and 3 Hail Mary's. Being the good drone I was, I never questioned why I was praying to someone other than God. How do your justify praying to Mary?

reply to post by network dude


Furthermore, why give prayer as a punishment (penance)?

Most (probably all) Christians enjoy talking to God. Strange way to atone for one's sins...

reply to post by Saurus


There is much I found I don't agree with as far as Catholicism goes. I am glad I experienced it so I can say with confidence that it's not for me. I am also glad I found God without religion so our relationship is much more personal. Masonry has strengthened my relationship with God and I truly enjoy spending time with the men I have met in masonry. It's a win-win for me.

reply to post by network dude


It's surprising how many Masons are actually ex-Catholics - I was brought up Catholic and went to a Catholic school and was extremely involved in that church until my early twenties. I know that at least five of the regular and currently active Masons in these recent Freemasonry threads are also ex-Catholics.

In a way, there are many similarities between Catholicism and Freemasonry. The Mass is a ritual, and although it is not explicitly memorized, most Catholics could probably recite most of the Mass verbatim. Catholicism is rich in symbolism. From the vast symbolism within the Mass to the simple ritual preparation of the priest who prepares for the Mass by putting on ritual vestments of determined colors in a particular order with a series of prescribed prayers - I think in a way Catholics feel comfortable with Freemasonry, because it has so much similarity with what we were brought up with.

MasonicLight once pointed out to me the similarities between the Catholic tradition and Freemasonry, and the more I think about it, the more I see it. Of course, there is no dogma in Freemasonry, but the traditions are strikingly similar.

reply to post by Saurus


I recently went to a mass (hadn't been in YEARS) and like you, I was amazed at how I found myself seeing the similarities. I even remembered to say the little things in answer to the priest. If that isn't ritual, I don't know what is. The same mass, done the same way, all the time. The only difference is the message or Eulogy. Much like a stated meeting.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Do you honestly believe that everyone who prays to God, but doesn't do so like your church does is praying to a false God? Like a Hindu, or a Muslim? What if they say the same thing?

you might want to watch this.

Hindu? YES. This is Idol worship(duh?) Muslim IDK, I would not pray with them just to be safe. I would have to know more about them beforehand. A Jew? I could pray with a Jew, but I would do so in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Could a Christian Mason define "false god" for me? Or would this be to preempt God in your opinion?

If so, why did God warn us to have no false gods infront of Him? If we could not discern the difference...

My church? The Christian Church - specifically Catholic. I can pray with any Christian though.

Contradiction and a half and three quarters and nine eighths.

Sorry but this post just shows how narrow your gate is

Thanks, I would have to say

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I have a question for you as well. I grew up Catholic. I would to to confession and be given penance. Sometimes it would be to say 4 Our Father's and 3 Hail Mary's. Being the good drone I was, I never questioned why I was praying to someone other than God. How do your justify praying to Mary?

Thank you for asking this question.

Now, you might have been doing it because you felt you had to. Because you were told to. This is not how we pray.

Praying to Mary is justified because she is in Heaven, she is the Queen of Heaven. She is the Beautiful Rose, conceived without sin, that our Lord chose to be His vessel to enter our fallen world and Save us. Our Lord loves her, and when we pray to Mary - I am sure you remember - we ask her to pray to Him for us. "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art though among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death."

The prayer actually answers your question. To pray means simply to communicate in one definition of the word. When we talk to anyone that is known to be in Heaven, we are praying. Thank you for reminding me to get a jump start on my Rosary today, I am really tired and might have forgot. Good timing

I am consecrated to Mary through the Brown Scapular, so I am supposed to get around to that every day.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


So it is your claim God contradicted Himself or is it your claim that I am misconstruing what He said and contradicting myself?

eta: I am not the Gate. I take it you are not Christian?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Saurus

 

I recently went to a mass (hadn't been in YEARS) and like you, I was amazed at how I found myself seeing the similarities. I even remembered to say the little things in answer to the priest. If that isn't ritual, I don't know what is. The same mass, done the same way, all the time. The only difference is the message or Eulogy. Much like a stated meeting.

I'm sure you know the reason for that, having been Catholic.

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by network dude

 

Furthermore, why give prayer as a punishment (penance)?

Most (probably all) Christians enjoy talking to God. Strange way to atone for one's sins...

Among other things including - remembering the things you are thankful for.

Penance is not punishment. It is atonement. There are positive ways to do this. There are examples of actual punishment in penance, but those are not your every day circumstances.

I love praying, and since coming back to the Church I have enjoyed every penance I have been told to do.