Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

We already went over all of this, Judaism included. Keep up.

I'm sure Jewish ATS members would appreciate your lumping them in as idolaters.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
eta my assertion does not originate with me.

Precisely. Your faith is faith in the unknowable (as are all faiths). However, your assertion is that your faith is the only faith because it's your faith. Your understanding is drawn on information passed down generation to generation; there's no first-hand knowledge on your part so assertions are by their very nature unsupportable.

You believe. This is good.

The trouble arises on this plane when you believe becomes "THE ONE TRUE BELIEF". That's when human nature starts influencing the path of the "ONE TRUE BELIEF" to meld it to its own wants instead of the other way around.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Speaking of that, I was just discussing this earlier. Can anyone link to a documented case of evolution and if not why? Of all of the species on earth one would have surely evolved by now right?

That's interesting. Why do you suppose we have people who look ever so slightly different from each other? Surely by now we should all be slightly brownish with a smattering of pink and yellow and sporting almond eyes? Or are you suggesting that there's only one true race?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
So now prove YOUR assertion that Jesus is not the only Way and that all false religions are just testing your loyalty to God?

You seem to be missing the essential word: "know". I freely admit I don't know. Do you know? And if so, prove it! I just choose not to make this former Eden any more a Hell than it has to be. I believe that Peace on Earth, good will to men is an all-encompassing notion you'd do well to more fully embrace. You must know that this sphere is but transitory and those who've failed the Almighty will get their eternal punishment.

Why are you so eager to rush to that judgment in advance of Divine Plan?

Fitz

403 years ago King James had money/control problems. He created a new English word "God" and ordered everyone to pray to this deity. It wasn't a new deity. Speaking in Hebrew and saying "Gad" sounds like the new English word "God".

King James got all the Christians to pray to the Semitic Deity Gad, the Deity of Fortune. The ancient Hebrew texts say the true deity ordered to be called "YHWH". Only people on Earth who pray to him are the Jewish people.

"God", the old Semitic Deity GAD....is a Demon. That ALL Christians pray to today. He provides them with Fortune....just at a cost.

YHWH is the only one that isn't a Demon.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


If you do not know Jesus is the Way and all other religions are false, you are NOT Christian. Is that not painfully obvious to anyone who has bothered to read what He taught us? The Divine Plan has been revealed already, it is YOUR salvation. Accept it or reject it - your choice.

Past that, I already explained what Judaism is. It is not Idle worship. They are confused and unaware that the New Covenant is valid and has been for 2,000 years already.

I am about to stop responding to you, you are seriously confused and you are intentionally ignoring things I have already said to make invalid assertions on other things I have said. I wonder if God specifically warned about doing this with what He said....well it's true what He said. A servent can never be greater than his master and that is who I serve. Thank you, and especially AM, for confirming God's words for me.

reply to post by NarrowGate

I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate, but you can find similarities across several religions around the world. One can see many pagan influences on Christianity. Religion is the institutionalized interpretation of man and his communication with the Divine...that's how you explain the variety of religions around the world.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

Like I've said the whole "high level" thing is a myth.

Originally posted by Pervius
403 years ago King James had money/control problems. He created a new English word "God" and ordered everyone to pray to this deity. It wasn't a new deity. Speaking in Hebrew and saying "Gad" sounds like the new English word "God".

King James got all the Christians to pray to the Semitic Deity Gad, the Deity of Fortune. The ancient Hebrew texts say the true deity ordered to be called "YHWH". Only people on Earth who pray to him are the Jewish people.

"God", the old Semitic Deity GAD....is a Demon. That ALL Christians pray to today. He provides them with Fortune....just at a cost.

YHWH is the only one that isn't a Demon.

The KJV is a corrupted version of the Bible which the Church has restored. We would need a new thread to discuss this.

We do not know the true name of the Father anymore because it was considered too Holy to be pronounced. The Hebrew texts only have consenants.

God is similar to the Freemasons term G.A.O.T.U. it is a term to describe a person. When in capitals, it is specific to God. However, I do not ever use God to describe anything or one who is NOT God though some foolishly do. Similar to G.A.O.T.U.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I'm not debunking anything here. Is it ethical to "demonize" a person's statements if you find wisdom in it?

Of course, if you have much to lose.

I am a bit puzzled why you stated your comment the way you did.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate, but you can find similarities across several religions around the world. One can see many pagan influences on Christianity. Religion is the institutionalized interpretation of man and his communication with the Divine...that's how you explain the variety of religions around the world.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

 

Like I've said the whole "high level" thing is a myth.

I see no pagan influence on Christianity. I see demons copying God. Yes there were pagans before Christ...and? I have no evidence they are even in the same 4 dimensions as us. Further application of logic would show that they have known God since before He revealed himself to us, assuming they are limited by time (which there is evidence both ways, but either way it is irrelevant).

Bhuddism, Hinduism, Paganism, and whatever other "ism" you want to add is not true religion and is demonically inspired at the least - and direct demon worship at the worst.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

perhaps we should bypass these intermediaries altogether and go directly to the CEO?

If you get a direct response, be sure to come back and report.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
If there are so many religions how are we really going to know which is the correct one? We can't and it would waste time trying to glean all the information contained in each to never find-out the "correct" path. So why do it?

So as Masons, rather than trying to parse the Name of God, the Word of God, etc. we look to the actions of those claiming to follow the Will of God and where we see a converging track, we recognise one travelling to the same destination on an parallel railroad and stop worrying about the name on the coaches or the name of the engineer.

We can't KNOW on this plane the absolute fidelity of any particular route; as Masons, we just agree not to blow-up each others trestles along the way and make a disaster of this plane. That way, the passengers (who are all that matter) will arrive safely

Fitz

Why do you think I am here and why I am posting? How can you assume I HAVEN'T gotten a response?

Would you be willing to bet on that? If so, perhaps you need to drink some milk instead of eating meat. NarrowGate, you seem very closed-minded to any other ideal than what you hold and since you've already judged everything that anyone says, by doing so, you have also judged yourself.

You should refrain from judging; and it does violate Canon Law which says we shouldn't.

Unless you know how to judge people's actions instead of judging them. This is two different things. One recognizes that people can change for the better and another recognizes they cannot.

"But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, 'Son, go work in my vineyard.' He answered, 'I will not,' but afterward he changed his mind, and went. He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, 'I go, sir,' but he didn't go. Which of the two did the will of his father?"

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity.

Maybe if you took off your blindfold.

The Catholic Church has incorporated numerous pagan holidays and influences into its teachings and dogma.

The Feast of Annunciation is derived from the vernal equinox.

Christmas is celebrated in place of the Saturnalia on the 25th of December which was the natalis Invicti.

The 40-day fast preceding Easter is the same as the 40-day fast preceding the Egyptian honoring of Osiris.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity. I see demons copying God. Yes there were pagans before Christ...and? I have no evidence they are even in the same 4 dimensions as us. Further application of logic would show that they have known God since before He revealed himself to us, assuming they are limited by time (which there is evidence both ways, but either way it is irrelevant).

Bhuddism, Hinduism, Paganism, and whatever other "ism" you want to add is not true religion and is demonically inspired at the least - and direct demon worship at the worst.

Sorry, but I think you'll find that the early Christian church borrowed a lot of things from other, earlier religions. We have no evidence at all as to when Jesus was born, but we just happen to celebrate Christmas at roughly the same time as the old festival of Saturnalia. And the Festival of Light. And the Winter Solstice.
Oh and the Pope's title of Pontifex Maximus also makes him, strictly speaking, the high priest of Jupiter.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity.

Maybe if you took off your blindfold.

The Catholic Church has incorporated numerous pagan holidays and influences into its teachings and dogma.

The Feast of Annunciation is derived from the vernal equinox.

Christmas is celebrated in place of the Saturnalia on the 25th of December which was the natalis Invicti.

The 40-day fast preceding Easter is the same as the 40-day fast preceding the Egyptian honoring of Osiris.

Didn't I JUST go over this?

And they say I have A "NARROW MIND"? I am loyal to God, the one true God, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am loyal to what He taught me before I am loyal to anything else, the Catholic Church included.

Other than that you did not refute anything I just said...likely due to your problems with grasping concepts.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I am loyal to God, the one true God, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am loyal to what He taught me before I am loyal to anything else, the Catholic Church included.

Then you are obviously not a very good Catholic if you do not observe these holidays and not understand the Catechism as you tried so poorly to convince us otherwise.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

If you do not know Jesus is the Way and all other religions are false, you are NOT Christian.

I believe that. I also believe that I am not worthy to so profoundly judge and dismiss others for speaking of God as Dieu, Gott, Allah, Jehovah, etc.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Is that not painfully obvious to anyone who has bothered to read what He taught us? The Divine Plan has been revealed already, it is YOUR salvation. Accept it or reject it - your choice.

Judge not lest ye be judged. I believe what has been taught but I also believe it contrary to the intent of the Almighty that good men of whatever stripe should go to war, bickering over the Name and Intent of God (as we feckless me are childishly given to do). I am content to let peaceable good men tread this world in peace confident that the Almighty will reward the faithful and punish the wayward. It doesn't fall to me to preempt the Almighty.

Why do you feel differently?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Past that, I already explained what Judaism is. It is not Idle worship.

No worship is idle. It may, however, be idol.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
They are confused and unaware that the New Covenant is valid and has been for 2,000 years already.

They have a preexisting covenant with the Father which they've been faithful to through many trials and tribulations spanning millennia; is that covenant now void?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I am about to stop responding to you, you are seriously confused and you are intentionally ignoring things I have already said to make invalid assertions on other things I have said.

I am anything but confused nor am i ignoring things. I just counsel peaceable life in this sphere on the eventual reunion of good men with their Creator. Why does that threaten you?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I wonder if God specifically warned about doing this with what He said....well it's true what He said. A servent can never be greater than his master and that is who I serve. Thank you, and especially AM, for confirming God's words for me.

We are all servants: you in your way, I in His.

Peace
Fitz

Originally posted by NarrowGate
God is similar to the Freemasons term G.A.O.T.U. it is a term to describe a person. When in capitals, it is specific to God. However, I do not ever use God to describe anything or one who is NOT God though some foolishly do. Similar to G.A.O.T.U.

G.A.O.T.U. is a non-denominational way for Masons of different faiths to speak of the Almighty as they understand Him. Who am I to presume to know and understand Him better than anyone else in the room? I'm a humble man; I don't have that bullet-proof an ego.

Fitz

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

I'm not debunking anything here.

You're doing an excellent job of debunking your own assertion. You haven't explained how your point is meaningfully different than my response about the Vatican

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
Is it ethical to "demonize" a person's statements if you find wisdom in it?

Who're you quoting with the word "demonize"? And I give due regard to wisdom where I find it.

I just have yet to find it in your posts.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
I am a bit puzzled why you stated your comment the way you did.

I believe. Belief in and of itself does not require proof. In fact, proof in anathema to a healthy belief. I don't need the Almighty to prove Himself to may in any way whatsoever. My heart doesn't contain so much self-important hubris as to require that. I am confident in my faith. I am hopeful that my actions on this Earth will merit only passing correction when that day comes.

In any case, I am not so filled with self-importance that I expect the Almighty has any need whatsoever to prove Himself to me.

That help at all?

Fitz

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Why do you think I am here and why I am posting? How can you assume I HAVEN'T gotten a response?

I have no doubt you feel you've had a response. For your sake, I hope it's from who you think it's from. In my case, I have the peace that I am following the path and that at the end of days, I will have arrived at the intended destination.
I have no need that my faith be bolstered along the way.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
Would you be willing to bet on that?

I have no doubt you believe you have. I can only hope the message emanated from whence you believe it to have.

Fitz

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I am loyal to God, the one true God, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am loyal to what He taught me before I am loyal to anything else, the Catholic Church included.

Then you are obviously not a very good Catholic if you do not observe these holidays and not understand the Catechism as you tried so poorly to convince us otherwise.

You really do have a problem with concepts don't you?

That was not a response to that part of that specific post, the rest was? duh? I was making a general statement with that part of the post, not to be interpreted as me saying the Dogma is incorrect or influenced by paganism. It is just simply not that way, and the REST of the posts that I have made on that subject along with the rest of that specific post will help you understand what I am saying here.

I did not try to convince of anything. That was you, and you failed miserably.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


OK this post helped me understand where you are coming from, and why you are working off of false pretenses. Even though it is not directed at me.

It has also shown that your intentions are good, which I was starting to doubt for a second I will not lie.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
God is similar to the Freemasons term G.A.O.T.U. it is a term to describe a person. When in capitals, it is specific to God. However, I do not ever use God to describe anything or one who is NOT God though some foolishly do. Similar to G.A.O.T.U.

G.A.O.T.U. is a non-denominational way for Masons of different faiths to speak of the Almighty as they understand Him. Who am I to presume to know and understand Him better than anyone else in the room? I'm a humble man; I don't have that bullet-proof an ego.

Fitz

Nor do you have bullet-proof faith if you believe that you do NOT know Him better than anyone in the room. If you know Jesus is truly Lord - you know Him better than anyone who does not know that.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Nor do you have bullet-proof faith if you believe that you do NOT know Him better than anyone in the room. If you know Jesus is truly Lord - you know Him better than anyone who does not know that.

I am a modest man of quiet faith. I have no need to trumpet the quality of my faith to all within earshot. The need to bellow and insist on the enviable depth of my faith clearly demonstrates how shallow it actually is.

Fitz