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Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

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posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


No. For us to make that call would contradict dogma.


But they aren't praying to God. Crucify 'em! Otherwise, recognise the mote in your own argument

Fitz




posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I think you just had one of those logical disconnect things you mentioned.

Either that or I am missing something. Could you state what my argument is and your counter to it, just for clarity?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

Depends on who the supreme being is though, and definitely on their level of understanding.


Sorry but are you suggesting that there's more than one Supreme Being? Can you please explain how that's possible? And why it's God and not Dieu, Gottt, Allah, etc?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
The problem arises the most when extremists take things out of context,


Absolutely. No argument there


Originally posted by NarrowGate
well at least that is what I have seen. I know the Christian Bible warns about that. Right in the beginning of the NT actually....


Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. Shall you presume yourself to be the sword of the Almighty, knowing His Will absolutely?

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


If put back in context there is no logical disconnect. If taken out of the context yes there would appear to be one.

IDK, I take the book of Job to be Divinely written.


And nothing else? Why the Book of Job? Do you not parse the disconnect that the words, written by a frail, fallible, imperfect creature trying to understand the unknowable may be at best not fulsome, not complete? We strive to know the unknowable but it's hubris to assert that we now know the unknowable. I'm a humble man; I admit my shortcomings. That, however, isn't an absolute across mankind. I have a visceral distrust of those who confidently claim to know the mind of the Almighty. They are closer to our understanding of evil than any other creature I could imagine.

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I think you just had one of those logical disconnect things you mentioned.

Either that or I am missing something. Could you state what my argument is and your counter to it, just for clarity?


How do you KNOW that they're praying to God? They certainly aren't using His name as you know it. And you only have their word that that word actually means what you think it does. The French and the Germans might all be closet Satanists. I mean, what two countries were at the centre of the two world wars??? Hmmmm?

Ever thought about that?

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

Depends on who the supreme being is though, and definitely on their level of understanding.


Sorry but are you suggesting that there's more than one Supreme Being? Can you please explain how that's possible? And why it's God and not Dieu, Gottt, Allah, etc?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
The problem arises the most when extremists take things out of context,


Absolutely. No argument there


Originally posted by NarrowGate
well at least that is what I have seen. I know the Christian Bible warns about that. Right in the beginning of the NT actually....


Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. Shall you presume yourself to be the sword of the Almighty, knowing His Will absolutely?

Fitz


1. No there is only one God. He is 3 persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Abrahamic religions know of the Father, and one of them calls the Son a prophet for reasons I am interested in figuring out.
When I said supreme being it was meant to be interpreted as a term and not the name of Him. A term to describe the religion.

2. No... Vengeance is the Lord's but I am unclear about why you bring that up.
edit on 18-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 

So what is your thought on the concept of avatars like that used in Hinduism?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


More interested in hearing the conclusions you have drawn, and how long you spend writing papers.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

1. No there is only one God. He is 3 persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Abrahamic religions know of the Father, and one of them calls the Son a prophet for reasons I am interested in figuring out.
When I said supreme being it was meant to be interpreted as a term and not the name of Him. A term to describe the religion.


But they revere the Father who preceded the Son. So if they revere the Father then their faith by extension honours the Son by extension if not necessarily name. As the Son comes of the Father, faith in the Father becomes the Son. As the Father begets the Son so faith in the Father is begotten of the Son in this world or the next

So there is no division except by those who seek to divide, right?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
2. No... Vengeance is the Lord's but I am unclear about why you bring that up.

Judge not......

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I think you just had one of those logical disconnect things you mentioned.

Either that or I am missing something. Could you state what my argument is and your counter to it, just for clarity?


How do you KNOW that they're praying to God? They certainly aren't using His name as you know it. And you only have their word that that word actually means what you think it does. The French and the Germans might all be closet Satanists. I mean, what two countries were at the centre of the two world wars??? Hmmmm?

Ever thought about that?

Fitz


I am sorry, I have absolutely no idea what this post means. It makes no sense to me.

Jesus is the only name I know of for God other than what we have left of the name "YHWH".

No I have never thought about that. You should refrain from thinking about that. I am certain the French and the Germans are not closet Satanists.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


If put back in context there is no logical disconnect. If taken out of the context yes there would appear to be one.

IDK, I take the book of Job to be Divinely written.


And nothing else? Why the Book of Job? Do you not parse the disconnect that the words, written by a frail, fallible, imperfect creature trying to understand the unknowable may be at best not fulsome, not complete? We strive to know the unknowable but it's hubris to assert that we now know the unknowable. I'm a humble man; I admit my shortcomings. That, however, isn't an absolute across mankind. I have a visceral distrust of those who confidently claim to know the mind of the Almighty. They are closer to our understanding of evil than any other creature I could imagine.

Fitz


How does taking the book of Job as divinely inspired equate to that being the only book that is divinely inspired...

No, God is the Word incarnate. The Word is intact.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


1) The only way to the Father is through the Son.

2) True but I am wondering why you bring it up.
edit on 18-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

How do you KNOW that they're praying to God? They certainly aren't using His name as you know it. And you only have their word that that word actually means what you think it does. The French and the Germans might all be closet Satanists. I mean, what two countries were at the centre of the two world wars??? Hmmmm?

Ever thought about that?

Fitz


I am sorry, I have absolutely no idea what this post means. It makes no sense to me.


You speak English. For English-speakers, the name for the Almighty is "God". But a name is a name whatever the language, right. The name in French should be God just as it should also be in German and every other language on the face of the Earth. Yet Frenchmen pray to Dieu and the Germans Gott. What proof do you have that they aren't praying to some other being?

This is the same argument that is thrown at Masons when it's asserted that we worship Satan/Lucifer/the long shot running at Woodbine in the 3rd. Why is one profession of belief in the Almighty sufficient for you when the name Dieu or Gott is applied but is suspect when the name G.A.O.T.U. is so applied?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Jesus is the only name I know of for God other than what we have left of the name "YHWH".


But how do you know that Jesus is God or that God is YHWH?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
No I have never thought about that. You should refrain from thinking about that. I am certain the French and the Germans are not closet Satanists.


Why should I refrain? I'm neither a Frenchman nor a German and I wouldn't want to be caught looking. After all, whence comes your certainty about the French and the Germans? In the US popular culture, the French are lengendary for surrendering and the Germans for evil wars; what conclusive evidence can you give me that the Germans aren't the people of the Devil and the French in league with them?

Fitz
edit on 18-1-2013 by Fitzgibbon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

How does taking the book of Job as divinely inspired equate to that being the only book that is divinely inspired...

No, God is the Word incarnate. The Word is intact.


The Word is infallible; the scribe is not

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by relocator
Do Freemasons worship demons!?
LOL!!! None of them on ATS will admit to it...LOL!!!
Nor will any link you find will convince them otherwise...LOL!!!
Debating with a Freemason on ATS is a waste of time...LOL!!!
Until you get it on film and even then I doubt they will admit it happens...will they submit. Especially to a women...LOL!!!

What proof do you have freemasons worship demons? Most if not all the freemasons on ats and personally have been nothing but nice and answered my questions. Freemasons are a huge group and have quite a few non recognized lodges so i'm sure there are a few masons who may be bad but every big group has a few even if it's against everything they stand for. I know close to 30 masons personally and each one of them are pillars of their communities.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The French and the Germans are not all closet Satanists and are aware of the Lord and His name.

Jesus is the Son of God. The name of God is Jesus. This I know. IDK what else to tell you. How? It is obvious. You can see it or choose not to.

There are probably some who deny that 2+2 = 4, and tell us we have no proof. To us it seems the proof is there, but to them - maybe our proof is insufficient because they want 2+2 to = 5.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The French and the Germans are not all closet Satanists and are aware of the Lord and His name.


I'm sorry but are you either French or German? If not how do you KNOW with absolute certainty? You take their word on faith?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Jesus is the Son of God. The name of God is Jesus. This I know.


How do you KNOW with absolute certainty? Do you speak Aramaic? Hebrew? Greek? Latin? Or are you taking someone else's word on faith too?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
IDK what else to tell you. How? It is obvious. You can see it or choose not to.


You take it on faith because someone told you. And someone told him. And so on and so on and so on. It's called faith. You choose to accept the word of one person but not another. Presumably that lack of trust in that other person comes from somewhere. How about it? Whence comes it?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
There are probably some who deny that 2+2 = 4, and tell us we have no proof. To us it seems the proof is there, but to them - maybe our proof is insufficient because they want 2+2 to = 5.


Mathematics can be proved. Faith by definition can't. You either trust or you don't

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Well you are working based off of some false pretenses, but you are about to start touching on the nature of reality.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Well you are working based off of some false pretenses, but you are about to start touching on the nature of reality.


Well that's an amusing assertion. The kettle calling the pot black.


I'm quite sure my understanding is a bit more complete than yours

Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Well you are working based off of some false pretenses, but you are about to start touching on the nature of reality.


Well that's an amusing assertion. The kettle calling the pot black.


I'm quite sure my understanding is a bit more complete than yours

Fitz


What you are sure of is that in your mind, your understanding appears to be more complete than mine.

If Jesus = God is not more certain than 2+2=4 to you then I assure you it might be a good idea to reconsider the thing you are so sure of.









 
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