Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

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posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by NarrowGate
 


I don't know enough about masonry to say what they all might know. I would tend to agree that there are surely levels, and those higher up would know more.


And how would you address the requirement for a belief in a Supreme Being vs the assertion that somehow all Masons become unwitting dupes praying to a less-than-supreme-being (even if their particular faith makes no allowance for that less-than-supreme-being)?

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

Fitz


"Higher ups" would be those at a higher level.


And who fits your criteria for being a "higher up"? What distinguishes them and what in particular makes their being "higher up" meaningful?


Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
As I stated, I am not too familiar with this stuff. I am not taking any side here; simply offering some comments, based on my thoughts on the topic.


Well, you've clearly offered comments. What informed your comments?


Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
In any case, please share what you know. it's a heated topic for some, and some simply are curious. I would be in the latter category. I haven't seen anything that would make me think they were good or bad.


I (and others) have frequently shared much here within the limitations of the obligations we take. I understand that Freemasonry for Dummies or The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freemasonry are worthwhile reads if you're interested in facts about Masonry. If you're more interested in the unfounded assertions about the fraternity, there are plenty of crackpot sites that will fill you with dread and foolishness if that's more acceptable.

Fitz
edit on 22-12-2012 by Fitzgibbon because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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After reading through the first ten pages or so I can honestly say my desire to become a brother has only been amplified.

I discovered this thread while looking for authentic Freemason information on ATS, I suppose that may sound counterintuitive lol, yet just by the way authentic masons conducted themselves in this thread speaks volumes.

This was a convoluted discussion. Anytime logic vs beliefs is the basis of a discussion things will get messy fast.

From what I've read narrowgate aka narrowmind lol - is simply stuck in his reality structured by the beliefs he holds dearly to his core. To try and use logic that would have him question his beliefs is essentially attacking his faith, which is why I believe this thread has gone on long pass the debate of do masons on some level worship demons.

Religion needs faith to survive because there are no absolute truths when it comes to religion. There is no irrefutable evidence that religion can offer up to its members, that's why faith is the number one required attribute that all religions ask of their followers.

While reading this thread, I felt that narrow's faith in his religion blocks him understanding the neutral logical arguments masons like Augustus presented. In order to understand your viewpoint would require him to question his beliefs which would lead to him possibly questioning his faith and one who questions their faith would strike me as the type of person narrowgate doesn't want to be.

edit on 12-1-2013 by Jacktrades because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Jacktrades


Religion needs faith to survive because there are no absolute truths when it comes to religion. There is no irrefutable evidence that religion can offer up to its members thats why faith is the number one required attribute that all religions ask of their followers.

While reading this thread, I felt that narrow's faith in his religion blocks him understanding the neutral logical arguments masons like Augustus presented.



Faith is the ability to sense the invisible, to envision something before it is manifest. Faith is a wonderful ability that imbues a human being with trust and goodwill. Don't mix it up with the conduct of paranoid zealotry. Many of these people are not people of faith, they are people with psychiatric conditions.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Faith is the acceptance of a unproved belief as fact/truth. The concept of faith is plain stupid. It's the death of any logical critical thinking.
People who have faith in anything , and contrary to what they believe, are utterly lost.

This statement has nothing to do, is unrelated with the topic of Freemasonry.

I would like to know, though, if faith, belief in a God is required for being a Freemason?

edit on 12-1-2013 by 1Agnostic1 because: edit to add



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I would like to know, though, if faith, belief in a God is required for being a Freemason?


A belief in a Supreme Being is a central requirement of mainline Masonry throughout the world with the exception of the Grand Orient of France. There may be some scattered masonic lodges elsewhere that have eschewed that requirement but I would think finding them even in the Internet age might not be easy.

That said, Masonry makes no particular requirement of the particular nature of your faith. ISTR that some of the founding fathers of the US were Deists and in my own lodge, the cross section of religious beliefs spans the major religions of the world.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by 1Agnostic1
 


Yes it is,
I think this poem describes it very well.



My Religion
author unknown
www.masonicsites.org...

When talk turns to religion
I have notions of my own
Have my versions of the Bible
And things I think alone.

And I find them satisfying,
Find them comforting to me,
Though I wouldn't lose my temper
If you chose to disagree.

For religion as I see it
Is a pathway to the goal,
And its something to be settled
Between each man and his soul.

Now I'm not a Roman Catholic,
But I wouldn't go so far
As to fling away the friendship
Of the ones I know that are.

I've lived and neighbored with them
Come to love them through and through
I've respect and admiration
For the kindly things they do.

I've known Methodists, Baptists,
Scientists and Jews,
Whose friendship is a treasure
That I wouldn't want to lose.

So when the people talk religion,
I just settle back and see
Every helpful, loyal friend
Each Church has given me.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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I'm the grandson of a Freemason. I'm pretty sure that if he had been a satanist my family would have noticed something. After all skulls and dribbly candles take up a lot of room.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Thanks for your reply.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Sauron
 


No, this poem is an ode to friendship. Friendship that can exist DESPITE and beyond religions not, and contrary to the misconception of the author expressed in the last two verses BECAUSE OF it.

Also, do you even realize how your signature complitely and utterly contradicts the concept of faith?
To have faith is not only believing something without ANY proof (or even against proof of the opposite), it is also and therefore to stop looking for the truth... Since you believe you've found it. At least for some specific metaphysical questionning which has a lot of pragmatical consequence.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Thanks for your reply.


Not at all. You'll find that the Masons here are quite happy to answer honest questions in a straightforward manner (except in the very few situations where a full answer would require revealing anything we've sworn not to [and to be honest, if you have a decent woo filter there isn't anything that can't be Googled).

Where things may start to get testy is when the old canards about Masons are Satanists'/Masonry is a religion/Masons control the world/etc memes that seem to get resurrected on a frustratingly regular basis by people unfamiliar with ATS' wonderful search function (which would show just how many times virtually every claim has been debunked over the years). Once in a blue moon, there's some new assertion under the sun but I've yet to run into one that in the end had an ounce of truth to it.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
reply to post by Sauron
 


No, this poem is an ode to friendship. Friendship that can exist DESPITE and beyond religions not, and contrary to the misconception of the author expressed in the last two verses BECAUSE OF it.


I read it as he is saying he has his own religious beliefs, and that men of different faiths have theirs. Just different pathways going to the same place.
The result is he has friends of different faiths because of what he believes.




Also, do you even realize how your signature complitely and utterly contradicts the concept of faith?


my signature:
It has been said that the greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge.
Too often the things we think we know obstruct the things we need to learn....
Daniel J. Boorstin.


duly noted,




To have faith is not only believing something without ANY proof (or even against proof of the opposite), it is also and therefore to stop looking for the truth... Since you believe you've found it. At least for some specific metaphysical questionning which has a lot of pragmatical consequence.


No friend I have not, but I have discovered a few truths along the way, and like us all, we will all find the truth one day.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 


Dude, why don't you get off the forums and actually go to a lodge and ask questions there. Why asks questions here when people have no idea what they are talking about! You do realize you're on a conspiracy website where half of these people get the Christian views of these affiliations, so of course you're going to get negative responses because you're not joining a dogma religion. Use your head!



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Sounds about like what I expected. There is always a lot of speculation about various groups, and half the time, people speculating don't even bother to ask those actually involved. A couple of people I have known with some involvement were certainly not "demon worshipers". Appreciate the info.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And who fits your criteria for being a "higher up"? What distinguishes them and what in particular makes their being "higher up" meaningful?



Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
As I stated, I am not too familiar with this stuff. I am not taking any side here; simply offering some comments, based on my thoughts on the topic.


Well, you've clearly offered comments. What informed your comments?


Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
In any case, please share what you know. it's a heated topic for some, and some simply are curious. I would be in the latter category. I haven't seen anything that would make me think they were good or bad.


I (and others) have frequently shared much here within the limitations of the obligations we take. I understand that Freemasonry for Dummies or The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freemasonry are worthwhile reads if you're interested in facts about Masonry. If you're more interested in the unfounded assertions about the fraternity, there are plenty of crackpot sites that will fill you with dread and foolishness if that's more acceptable.

Fitz
edit on 22-12-2012 by Fitzgibbon because: (no reason given)


A "higher up", AGAIN, would be one of a higher rank. I can't believe this is hard to understand. There are levels that Masons can reach.

I don't usually get into this sort of thread. Once in a while, I check one, just to see what all the fuss is about. I really don't have a strong opinion either way, as I have already stated. In this case, the thread title seemed to be pretty firm, and I was curious as to what proof, if any, they would offer. As is usual, nothing firm was shown.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And who fits your criteria for being a "higher up"? What distinguishes them and what in particular makes their being "higher up" meaningful?


A "higher up", AGAIN, would be one of a higher rank. I can't believe this is hard to understand. There are levels that Masons can reach.


Not to be too blunt about it but no feces, Sherlock; how about a little specificity in your reply? The are many canards trotted out about what constitutes those elusive 'higher ups'; I'm asking you for yours. For example, I'm a Master Mason who'll be installed as Master of my lodge in December; is that high enough. If not, why not? At what level can I expect to become privy to that knowledge which it seems you have?


Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
I don't usually get into this sort of thread. Once in a while, I check one, just to see what all the fuss is about. I really don't have a strong opinion either way, as I have already stated. In this case, the thread title seemed to be pretty firm, and I was curious as to what proof, if any, they would offer. As is usual, nothing firm was shown.


But clearly you have enough of an opinion to lob it out; that demonstrates a strong enough sense of your opinion. If what you really meant was that you heard/read/what-have-you something somewhere sometime and are satisfied enough that that's true, say so.

But I really would like to better understand the depth of your understanding of your own opinion. I don't think that's really too much to ask, is it?

Fitz



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


What, exactly, are you expecting form my replies? I have already stated that I don't have any strong opinions, or any detailed information. Asking the same things over and over makes me think you are looking for a reason to argue. I really have nothing else to say on this thread.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
The concept of faith is plain stupid. It's the death of any logical critical thinking.
People who have faith in anything , and contrary to what they believe, are utterly lost.


Not really. Countless famous scientists were men of faith. They had faith in their visions, faith in their ideas, faith in their careers. I am a man of faith but at the same time a great proponent of logic, rational thinking, critical thinking and a fan of science.
edit on 13-1-2013 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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I read at the beginning of a reference to Lucifer, Lucifer is just for the mascot of a much larger, a religion which has thousands of old year.have many gods, but Jesus did not exist.
JESUS ​​connect with Isa Isa a.s.
Jesus is to IHS or Isis Horus Set
The cross on which Jesus was crucified it was a symbol of Tammuz, the damn thing in the eyes of God, it is in Catholicism prohibited.Sad you wonder who god.Learn themselves not to be something that I'm lying, I've found on the net interest I found me.
The cross represents the god Tammuz, the son of Semiramis, and Semiramis Tammuz in the hands of the may represent Mary with Jesus in her arms.



We have all the Isis Horus Set in the middle of the cross a symbol of Tammuz
edit on 13-1-2013 by Majstorx because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-1-2013 by Majstorx because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-1-2013 by Majstorx because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-1-2013 by Majstorx because: Excuse the translation with google traslate program because I do not know the English language only Serbian



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


What, exactly, are you expecting form my replies? I have already stated that I don't have any strong opinions, or any detailed information. Asking the same things over and over makes me think you are looking for a reason to argue. I really have nothing else to say on this thread.


Way back here, you had enough of an opinion to opine that


Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
[snip] There are some that do this knowing full well that what they worship is evil.

I don't know enough about masonry to say what they all might know. I would tend to agree that there are surely levels, and those higher up would know more.


I just can't fathom someone cavalierly making that statement and then turning around and claiming that they "don't have any strong opinions". Call me old school but I don't understand tossing-off such a facile assertion about a group of people as if it's nothing at all and meaningless. Certainly it's ignorant and perhaps should be accepted as such

Fitz



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
The concept of faith is plain stupid. It's the death of any logical critical thinking.
People who have faith in anything , and contrary to what they believe, are utterly lost.


Not really. Countless famous scientists were men of faith. They had faith in their visions, faith in their ideas, faith in their careers. I am a man of faith but at the same time a great proponent of logic, rational thinking, critical thinking and a fan of science.
edit on 13-1-2013 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)


The fact that scientists may be men of faith doesn't change anything to the validity of my statement.
Faith is:
- The opposite of rational thinking.

Accepting something as truth when not having any proof or against proof of the contrary is anything BUT rational. In fact its opposite.
- The end of critical thinking.
Once you have faith in something, you can't (or won't) challenge it in any way. That's the first consequence of faith. There goes your critical thinking.

It is therefore the end of logic/science.


What you really mean is:
"I'm a great proponent of logic... When it doesn't (or till it does) contradict/go against/threatens my faith"
"I'm a great proponent of rational thinking... When it doesn't (or till it does) contradict/go against/threatens my faith"
"I'm a great proponent of critical thinking and a fan of science... When it doesn't (or till it does) contradict/go against/threatens my faith"

Therefore you're none of these things.

Furthermore, without you realizing it, your faith reach every aspect of your life and thought process. Every thought you have is implicitely shaped/structured by it. You APPEAR to other and even yourself it seems to be as rational as the next guy... And you may be... Because there are no more rational than you (because of their faith or belief system -e.g Atheism is also a belief system-).

It's not an attack against you. Really. Yet, I understand you can take it personally. This is the truth, you can accept it or not but it is like it is.
edit on 13-1-2013 by 1Agnostic1 because: edit
Faith is: - The opposite of rational thinking. The end of critical thinking.
edit on 13-1-2013 by 1Agnostic1 because: edit





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