Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

In Islam, it is accepted that the Qur'an is the word of God. Any translation thereof is no longer the Qur'an, but is accepted to be a human interpretation of the word of God. Such translations are for information purposes only.
Every Muslim learns Arabic so that he/she may understand the Word of God.

In Christianity, there are two types:

1) Those that believe that the bible is all allegory and contains moral lessons through stories.

2) Those who claim the bible is literal.

The strange thing about the second type, is that most of this type of believer reads through a couple of versions, and then picks one that is most suited to his interpretation. Bible's have different interpretations, since they were translated by humans, and yet this does not seem to be a problem for a literalist.

I cannot understand that every Islam in the world (who all believe that the word of God is literal) learns Arabic so that they may understand God's will, but not a single Christian making this claim (apart from theological scholars) is prepared to do the same.

If it is really the true word of God, any person who "dedicates their whole life to God" should at least make the effort then to get the true word, like every Muslim does. Problem is, in the back of every Christian's mind, they actually know it's all allegory. That's why, apart from theological scholars, Christians could not be bothered to learn the languages.

At least, that's how I see it.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
A question I have to ask... if I were to join would I be required to pray with Masons who do not pray to Jesus?

You may pray right next to a bunch of men who believe exactly as you do, or you may pray right next to a Muslim who in his mind is praying to Allah. Being able to deal with that and understand that he has as much right to do that as you do to pray to God is what makes the difference. If you could not do that, then you would not agree with what masonry teaches. Keeping in mind that nobody will tell you how to pray or whom to pray to either.

reply to post by Saurus


Those are not the only two types. The Catholic Church teaches certain parts are literal certain parts are not.... as is to be expected I would think.

Other than that, I don't see a need to learn Hebrew, though it might be interesting. The Holy Spirit guides the Church who translates the Bible. Past that, the Bible is not the only Word of God.

reply to post by network dude


I don't have a problem with that, as long as I am not saying the prayer with them or saying I do not know who God is.

Scripture Exists Most Often Times To Instruct...
Hence... "Things Which Aught Not To Be Done!"

The Other Portion Exists To Instruct... As In: "What It Means To Be!" (Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Etc...)

BUT!
But Catholicism, The True Ancient Chruch Was A Gateway To Europe And Literally Existed To Unite The Europe Of Olden Days With A "Grand Pontiff" To Oversee... Each Country With Its Own King In Allegiance To The Grand Pontiff...

To Ward Off Jews, Moors, And Islam...

NOW... These Days... Catholicism Is:

1) Baptism... (Freemasonic Chamber Of Reflection "Water") = Stand Up For The People/Person!
2) Communion... (Freemasonic Chamber Of Reflection "Sulfur") = Endure For The People/Person!
3) Confirmation... (Freemasonic Chamber Of Reflection "Salt") = Made By The People/Person!
4) Marriage... (Freemasonic Chamber OfReflection "Mercury") = Love (Unfolded) By The People/Person!
5) Diaconate... = When It Is Your Turn To Be A Don a.k.a. God-Father/Grand Pontiff!

Originally posted by NarrowGate

I don't have a problem with that, as long as I am not saying the prayer with them or saying I do not know who God is.

A typical prayer might begin:
"Great Architect of the Universe, for who's protection now we humbly pray..."

Everybody would pray together, but each Mason will obviously have his own interpretation of who the "Great Architect" is to them.

reply to post by Saurus


One I've heard quite often is

Most holy and glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe: the giver of all good gifts and graces: Thou hast promised that where two or three are gathered together in Thy name, Thou wilt be in the midst of them and bless them. In Thy name we assemble, most humbly beseeching Thee to bless us in all our undertakings, that we may know and serve Thee aright, and that all our actions may tend to Thy glory and to our advancement in knowledge and virtue; and we beseech Thee, O Lord God, to bless this our present assembling, and to illuminate our minds by the divine precepts of Thy Holy Word, and teach us to walk in the light of Thy countenance; and when the trials of our probationary state are over, be admitted into the Temple not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Amen.

reply to post by JoshNorton


In New Jersey:

Vouchsafe Thine aid and blessing, Almighty Father of the Universe, to us now in lodge assembled. Enable us to perform every duty with fidelity, so that our labors may meet Thy divine approbation; and to Thy name be the glory forever, Amen.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I really like this one, from the English Constitution's Holy Royal Arch, when exalting a Candidate...

Almighty God, at whose command the world burst forth from chaos and all created nature had its birth, we humbly implore Thee to bestow Thy spiritual blessing on this Convocation and grant that the Brother who now seeks to participate in the light of our Mysteries may be endued with a portion of Thy Divine Spirit; may he not enter our Order lightly, nor recede from it hastily, but pursue it steadfastly, and may he ever remember that the object of our Institution is the welfare of our fellow creatures, but above all, the honour and glory of Thy Most Holy Name.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
One I've heard quite often is

Ah, but none beats good old

All Glory to the Most High!
All Glory to the Most High!
All Glory to the Most High!

reply to post by almadd2012


the trouble is, in Jersey, that is more of a challenge then a prayer.

Just kidding.

Originally posted by network dude
the trouble is, in Jersey, that is more of a challenge then a prayer.

Just kidding.

After meeting you I seriously doubt that.

Me and you are gonna take a ride to the southward in Newark one day. See how funny you are then.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Skimming those posts, what I see is some very confused theology (if you can even call it theology), but I don't think I could go as far as stating that this is knowing demonic worship. Confused, maybe. There are a lot of people confused about these issues, that end up looking up to things they should avoid, but that's different from outright demonic worship. There are some that do this knowing full well that what they worship is evil.

I don't know enough about masonry to say what they all might know. I would tend to agree that there are surely levels, and those higher up would know more.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I don't know enough about masonry to say what they all might know. I would tend to agree that there are surely levels, and those higher up would know more.

And how would you address the requirement for a belief in a Supreme Being vs the assertion that somehow all Masons become unwitting dupes praying to a less-than-supreme-being (even if their particular faith makes no allowance for that less-than-supreme-being)?

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

You will not get an answer to this - I've been trying for years, and not a single anti-mason or non-mason has ever replied to this question with anything coherent.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

You will not get an answer to this - I've been trying for years, and not a single anti-mason or non-mason has ever replied to this question with anything coherent.

Oh, I know. However, if it helps serve as a reminder that the anti-Masonic emperor has no clothes, then the phosphors haven't been wasted.

Fitz

In my Masonic Order, the Great Invocation is said by the Master at the beginning of each meeting. There is obviously a Theosophical influence on mixed gender Freemasonry that continues to the present.

THE GREAT INVOCATION

From the point of Light within the Mind of God
Let light stream forth into human minds.
Let Light descend on Earth.

From the point of Love within the Heart of God
Let love stream forth into human hearts.
May the Coming One return to Earth.

From the center where the Will of God is known
Let purpose guide all little human wills -
The purpose which the Masters know and serve.

From the center which we call the human race
Let the Plan of Love and Light work out
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.

Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I don't know enough about masonry to say what they all might know. I would tend to agree that there are surely levels, and those higher up would know more.

And how would you address the requirement for a belief in a Supreme Being vs the assertion that somehow all Masons become unwitting dupes praying to a less-than-supreme-being (even if their particular faith makes no allowance for that less-than-supreme-being)?

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

Fitz

What, exactly, is the question? Are you stating that is a requirement? Are you stating it should be, and isn't? Not very clear, the way it's written. Of course, not everyone agrees on what a "Supreme Being" might actually be. If you want to talk about what Masons believe, please do more clearly. Information from someone in the group would certainly add some clarity to the conversation.

"Higher ups" would be those at a higher level. Pretty much everyone knows there are different levels in any such group. If a group did have secrets, then it would make sense for the people at a higher level to know more than those at a lower level.

As I stated, I am not too familiar with this stuff. I am not taking any side here; simply offering some comments, based on my thoughts on the topic. I am fairly certain one family member was involved with the Masons, though he didn't talk about it a lot. That family member was most certainly Christian, too. That, i am certain of, not so certain if he was a member or not. Very probable, though. No, I can't ask; he's deceased now.

In any case, please share what you know. it's a heated topic for some, and some simply are curious. I would be in the latter category. I haven't seen anything that would make me think they were good or bad.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

And who fits your criteria for being "higher up" and why?

You will not get an answer to this - I've been trying for years, and not a single anti-mason or non-mason has ever replied to this question with anything coherent.

I am not an "anti-Mason", and I did post an answer. I don't live on the site, though, so it took a little time. Chill, dude.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Masonry is a group of men who use a very old system of learning to impart lessons of morality. We are a fraternal organization that is charitable. We are not a church, but we are somewhat religious in that every member of regular masonry must believe in a supreme being that created everything. We do say prayers at the opening and closing of our meetings. They are somewhat generic in the Deity so men of many faiths can participate without feeling like they are left out.

We meet on the level. Meaning that all masons are the same, from the guy who cleans toilets, to the senator that sits next to him. That way, you eliminate the inferiority that separates us and makes it possible to forge friendships where there would usually not be one.

Yes there are levels or degrees that you can obtain, but to a mason on the inside, the degrees might give elevated respect just knowing that the brother gave much of his time to the fraternity to earn that title, he is no higher in rank than a brand new third degree master mason. It's hard for someone on the outside to understand all this so you have lots of confusion even when we try to explain it.

I hope that helped to clear up the mud a bit, please ask if you have any other questions.