Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

reply to post by King Seesar


I was discussing this with someone earlier about how in the horrific shooting in CT one of the teachers did one of the greatest, heroic thing I have seen. She hears the gun shots and hides all her students in the classroom closets and cabinets. When the shooter reaches her classroom she lies that her class is at the gym.

The ninth commandment states "though shall not lie" but by lying she saved the lives of all her students.

may she rest in peace a true angel.

reply to post by ElOmen



She was a hero rip and god speed to her and her family....

If you listen to Jesus's teachings he basically spells out the two that are most important and that is Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart" and "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".....

reply to post by ElOmen


It also says "Thou shalt not kill".

If someone is shooting at you you are allowed to kill them though. In war you are justified. In fact, God tells us to kill anyone who worships the demon Moloch *and* sacrifices their children to that *demon* (who has been around since before humans).

You may lie to save lives, however you may never deny your Lord.

This is why we have a Church, Sacred Tradition, and most importantly the Holy Spirit guiding us.

Protestant fundamentalists would have a problem answering that though.

Also, in that context of the word Angel it means "messenger of God" in this she was acting in that capacity, however we will never be "Angels" per say.

Yes God will reward her for this, if what I know about God and what the Church teaches is correct.

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

This is what you do throughout both threads. I say it was written by man, not God himself, and you twist that to say that I don't believe it was inspired by God. Don't put words in my mouth. Inspired by God, but written by man, do you understand that man has his own motives?

I believe in God and Christ, I do not believe in the church or religion. I believe in asking questions, that's how you get answers and gain knowledge. You believe what you are told, without question. That is our difference.

Can you not see that you are displaying a complete lack of faith in God!? Yes *some* men have their own motives.

Believe what I am told without question? No I was raised around the mentality you have. It was part of the reason I fell away from the Church at a young age. Only after reading 3 versions of the Gospel and interpreting them myself did I realize that the Catholic Church was the Church that is getting it right. After doing some more research I found out why. It is actually the Church founded by God, through St. Peter.

So let me get this straight, you think the Word was inspired by God, but you believe God allowed men to corrupt the Word for their own gain. Well yes my friend that is very true, just look at the JW Bible. Or the protestant Bibles that take out the evidence of Purgatory...or the Bibles that try to make Satan disappear from the text *gasp*. This couldn't be right?

I do not see how this applies to God's Church?

Further, to say the Cross is a "graven image" and to believe that Satan does not exist is to cheat yourself of your own understanding of your own Salvation. It also makes you....you ready for this....not Christian!

I just realized something. You are a gnostic aren't you?

Originally posted by King Seesar

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by DaesDaemar

 

I figured them and myself were the only ones left following the thread

it got derailed long ago into a debate about things completely irrelevant to the topic. Have you been reading? I didn't even try to debate these things. I was suckered into it

No way the ten page debate you and AugustusMasonicus have had on here and through out the other threads the last few days have been epic....

Truth be told i'm in the middle with both your opposing theologies i'm the guy who feels certin elements of BOTH Freemasonry and the Catholic church have been infiltrated by special interest groups however that doesn't make me dislike Catholics or Freemasons i look at the person not the group in both cases....

As far as my spiritual beliefs i would say i was loseley Christian and do believe in Jesus and i do think the advisory is real call him what you want, however i have my own theological beliefs on different things for instance i don't put much stock into the Old Testament as far as it's spiritual teachings i feel God was misunderstood by the Old Testament prophets which is why one of the commandments is "thou shalt not kill" and then after receiving that word Moses kills people worshipping the golden calf....

I feel Jesus taught the true meaning of God and only the New Testament should be taken into assertion as far as spritual beliefs however i do feel there are good life lesson and moral stories and some history to be learned from the Old Testament but that's it...

1st off I was designing my answers to be more specifically to him and not others reading. You have to read them that way to understand them.

2nd You are correct, both have been infiltrated by special interest groups, and God allowed this test. That is only part of the reason myself and others are wary about the Church's statement on Freemasonry. Half of the Catholic Church doesn't even think Satan exists! which by default means that they are not loyal to the Pope.

3rd God also told us to kill demon worshipers who sacrifice babies... some of God's favorites were killers. In the OT, God describes killings that are not to be considered murder. You have to read the scripture in it's entirety and understand all of it, as the Temptation of Christ would so clearly display for all of us (not saying you didn't). I personally place a lot of faith in the OT. You are right though, the New Covenant is the New Law. The Old Law only applies where the NC did not make it void.

4th the most important thing the OT provides is a context of Salvation. Jesus of Nazareth was basically the end game, the victory. It's like reading about WWII but only reading about D-Day and the Bombs. That is a loose analogy anyways.

5th Back then, idle worship was responsible for a TON of evil, which is what that would have been about from my understanding. Today, it is still responsible for the vast majority of evil in the world. The idles have just changed to fit the times.

edit: The Church is full of those who have fallen to Satan. The Church itself NEVER will, and the true teachings of the Church will always be correct.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Wow we agreed on more then i thought we would, first off i commend you for admiting that the Catholic church has indeed been infiltrated there were so many ways you could of ducked that point by me but you were honest....

I guess our only difference of opinion on core Christian theological beliefs is God's intent to kill the way it is described in the Old Testament to which my theory is the prophets of the Old Testament were flawed and misunderstood God's true words which Jesus corrected....

reply to post by King Seesar


Well, my take on that is the Prophets were not misunderstanding, the ones interpreting what the Prophets said were misunderstanding. People always like to bring up the part of the OT where God had bears kill children for making fun of a prophet. What they do not consider is that these children likely defaulted into heaven, and their standard of living was likely extremely low to the point their lives would have been nothing but torment. People also do not consider that it might not be literal.

The Scribes and Pharisees (even though they still had authority from God) clearly did not understand a lot of things.

The same could be said about many of our priests today.

They make the Word of God void and replace it with science! Refer to my signature for how I know that is a terrible plan. Not saying science is fruitless, just saying it does not trump the Word (you would think this would be obvious, but whatever).

The Scribes and Pharisees replaced the Word of God with tradition... same story is playing out if you ask me.

Yes the Catholic Church has been infiltrated by people with completely malicious intent. Some of these men even speak to a couple hundred people every Sunday. I had a priest down the road refuse to bless my Rosary!! . You can see where I am going with this. Whether or not he specifically had malicious intent I do not know but something is seriously wrong.

Not to worry, God is in control.

To add further validity to the thread here....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Someone tell him to stop please . It does look bad.... you must see that....

reply to post by NarrowGate


Where did I say I didn't believe in satan? You question my faith? God is everything, I don't need a book to confirm this. And speaking of the book, why are there scriptures that are left out? The book is composed by man, so yes, God has no control of what is in it.

I love the fact that you just can not accept that anyone would believe anything different to you. I accept that you believe what you do, but that's not what I believe. Does that make it wrong? No, it just makes it different. Look at all the religious threads on ATS, most people that post in them can't agree on what the scriptures mean.

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Where did I say I didn't believe in satan? You question my faith? God is everything, I don't need a book to confirm this. And speaking of the book, why are there scriptures that are left out? The book is composed by man, so yes, God has no control of what is in it.

I love the fact that you just can not accept that anyone would believe anything different to you. I accept that you believe what you do, but that's not what I believe. Does that make it wrong? No, it just makes it different. Look at all the religious threads on ATS, most people that post in them can't agree on what the scriptures mean.

1. So God is everything, and you think His Church did not properly preserve his Word. You don't need a book? Jesus Christ is the Word in the flesh. The Bible is not ALL of the Word, but does contain much of it.

2. As far as the books that are not in the Canonical Gospels, you would have to tell me which book. If you mean like Gospel of Mary, it's because it is heretical. There were many heretical Gospels spread after Christ was Resurrected. I have read some of the so call lost books, and they are blatantly heretical for the most part.

3. Who cares if the members on ATS can. There is an organization that has been handling that for about 2,000 years now. There have been false teachers throughout history. "If a blind man leads another blind man into a pit they both fall in".

Seriously man, I didn't mean to offend you. I got confused about what you believed and what others said they do. I do not have a problem with you or what you believe. There are known Truths though. Before you say there are not, please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church online. If you do not agree, fine, but if you are Christian I recommend reading it. At the very least you will find out what the oldest Christian Church believes. At best, you might find out you agree.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Baddguy

 

Yes this is true. Excellent point. I do believe God is a person.

If you believe God is a person or thinks like we do then you've already set limitations on God..im sure you don't believe God has limitations do you?

also

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

I see this as "taking the favorable with the unfavorable" a very necessary trait in living a moral life...Weeds can actually be helpful to gardens.

There are several ways in which weeds can be helpful to leave in the garden. Many of them, for example, are edible (indeed some are very tasty), whilst others have medicinal properties or other uses. Weeds also help to provide a more balanced environment by providing food and habitats for insects and other creatures - this can have a very important knock-on effect for the gardener by encouraging beneficial insects and birds and thus reducing insect predation on our plants. In addition, weeds help to protect and feed the soil by providing good compost material as well as by covering it and preventing erosion.

But main question is why do you think Masons worship demons?

reply to post by Baddguy


God is a person, I am not sure how that means God has any limitation..

That parable, in the context it is in, is in reference to good, evil, and the harvest. IMO it does a great job of showing why evil is allowed to continue.

As far as your other question goes, it is a deceptive question by it's nature.

The question I find myself asking is why do some think it is not a problem if people believe that about Masons? If you want people to stop thinking it, trying to convince them Satan is not real is a bad plan. Trying way too hard to convince them is a really bad plan. Being deceptive while doing it is a really really bad plan.

reply to post by NarrowGate


But so far in your career of masonic education, only one mason has tried to convince you that Satan doesn't exist.
Surely you understand that not all masons think the same. We are allowed to have our own beliefs. I am sure there are some masons who share some of your beliefs, as you do theirs.

I believe that God is not something we can explain or understand,and certainly not a person. I think he is a spirit that lives in each of us waiting for an opportunity to have us talk to him. Waiting for us to ask for guidance.

And you are completely free to believe something different, just as all other masons are.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Baddguy

 

The question I find myself asking is why do some think it is not a problem if people believe that about Masons?

i asked this too until i became a Mason and i feel the answer to this is why even bother?? iI used to always want to defend why i became a Mason and how we don't worship the Devil to my friends and family but people will only listen if they want to and you may fall in that circle without even knowing it...You've been told of how mason try to live moral lives in service to fellow man..You've heard that we have believe in one supreme God no matter what religion...im sure you've heard of our allegories that have religious ties in them to teach moral lessons...

trying to convince them Satan is not real is a bad planTrying way too hard to convince them is a really bad plan.

IMO trying to convince that there is no Satan, ONLY GOD is logical when using critical thinking..

Originally posted by NarrowGate


If someone is shooting at you you are allowed to kill them though. In war you are justified. In fact, God tells us to kill anyone who worships the demon Moloch *and* sacrifices their children to that *demon* (who has been around since before humans).

Not sure what that means. Moloch was created by humans. For a modern usage, see Ginsberg's "Howl".

reply to post by network dude


Well, to me God is both a person and has a spirit. Other than that you believe the same as me basically.

Yes, I do understand Masons are not all the same. One of the things Masons believe that rings true to me is that a person who can not be trusted in smaller matters can not be trusted in larger matters. Another thing that rings true is that generally speaking; privacy is important for a group of men trying to do good in this world.

A question I have to ask... if I were to join would I be required to pray with Masons who do not pray to Jesus?

reply to post by Baddguy


1. Why bother? Considering the number of people that know (believe, whatever) that Satan is real I think it would be beneficial to keep people from thinking you follow it... Imagine if the Catholic Church and the Freemasons came together to make the world a better place... imagine what could be achieved.

2. I'm not sure if you were implying that the Satan is a god or on Gods level in any way but just for clarity - that is the farthest thing from my belief.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
A question I have to ask... if I were to join would I be required to pray with Masons who do not pray to Jesus?

Yes. There is an opening prayer to every meeting or ceremony.

reply to post by KSigMason


Does any part of that prayer imply that I do not know who God is?

reply to post by NarrowGate

It just asks for protection and guidance.