Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
By then you and I will hopefully be in Heaven.

In your opinion, is heaven a place?

Who gets there?
Do animals?

Heaven is much more than a place. The kingdom of heaven is sewn around us we just can not see it. Heaven is something I do not understand for obvious reasons, no one could. Our knowledge is very limited in this life for a reason, this life is based on faith. All of my experiences is life indicate that.

Who gets there? Whoever can accept God. When they die, if their heart is too hardened they will reject God and choose Hell. That is my take on it, and many people in the Church would agree some priests included.
I personally think animals get in. I once heard a Catholic apologetic arguing with a Protestant over this. The Catholic said "Free souls for dogs with conversion." Seriously though why ask that question? How can I tell you for certain if God did not tell me?

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Now God created everything, pedophilia included, huh?

"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of ALL THAT IS, seen and unseen....
.
..
Through him ALL THINGS were made. "

~ Source: Nicene Creed as published by the Vatican: www.vatican.va...

This is the profession of the Catholic faith, no?
You're a catholic, no?

edit on 13/12/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

edit on 13/12/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

I do not follow your logic.

God created ALL things seen and unseen.

What does that have to do with pedophiles and evil in general?

God created an Angel that fell, and is the source of all lies that people speak. Our entire history can be summed up to this - tell the truth. Lies are of Satan. God did not create lies, Satan did.
God did not create science, man did.

God did not create pedophiles, demons did. If you want to look at it from your perspective, man did.

God i did not create demons, Angels chose reject God.

I do not understand why this conversation is taking so long. You had to have known I would say those things. Considering my Faith and all.

God created things and gave them the ability to create. That does not mean god created their creations as well. For people that are so smart you sure do not act like it. That logic seems like something my 3 year old can follow. Even if you are not Catholic, how can you honestly say God created pedophiles. That is the most absurd thing I have ever had someone try to convince me of.

reply to post by NarrowGate

What does that have to do with pedophiles and evil in general?

Do they not exist? Was it not you who brought up pedophilia?

how can you honestly say God created pedophiles.

Let me quote what you said, no one else

Now God created everything, pedophilia included, huh.

That is the only time pedophilia has been mentioned in this thread as far as I have looked has been by you OP,

Not only that but you seem like a bigot as well let me quote your words again

I would not like to be you, in fact I would rather be a poor guy in a hut in Africa than think like you.

You make it sound so horrible, lucky you are not that poor man living in a hut in Africa, I mean what a shame one must feel to live in a hut in Africa.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


No I did not bring them up first. They were mentioned in reference to the Knights of Columbus. You have not been following the thread.


As for the rest of your post, you have no idea what my beliefs entail. Read St. Theresa's "The Way of Perfection" if you want to understand the reference to mud huts in Africa better.

The way you think, act, and the way your soul feels is more important than where you live, go to school, and what your standards of living are.

I guarantee there is a guy living in a mud hut in Africa that is more happy than the richest man in the world.

I tire of your illogical comments.

edit: there is a difference between the way your soul feels, and the way you feel. They are connected, but not one in the same.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I do not follow your logic.

This has been glaringly apparent throughout this thread.

God created ALL things seen and unseen.

What does that have to do with pedophiles and evil in general?

God created everything. If God did not want humans to engage in any type of activity that could be considered evil he would not have given humans FREE WILL. Free will, by its very definition, enables the possessor of such to do WHATEVER THEY WANT, whether it be good or evil to themselves, their fellow man or to the world at large.

Ask yourself, do you have free will? If so, why do you choose to do good or evil? The person who does evil does so because they chose to, they had the option, given to them by God, and took the sociopathic route.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I do not follow your logic.

This has been glaringly apparent throughout this thread.

God created ALL things seen and unseen.

What does that have to do with pedophiles and evil in general?

God created everything. If God did not want humans to engage in any type of activity that could be considered evil he would not have given humans FREE WILL. Free will, by its very definition, enables the possessor of such to do WHATEVER THEY WANT, whether it be good or evil to themselves, their fellow man or to the world at large.

Ask yourself, do you have free will? If so, why do you choose to do good or evil? The person who does evil does so because they chose to, they had the option, given to them by God, and took the sociopathic route.

edit on 13-12-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer and I have the free will to point this out to him. Again and again.

You proud proud man. Are you saying that because if YOU did not want people to do evil, YOU would not give them free will that God would conclude the same? You claim to have insight into Gods mind. What else can you tell me mr prophet?

Is it so hard to understand the necessity of free will? It is quite obviously, and the logic holds in my mind, more necessary for us to have free will than to get rid of evil.

There is a parable called "The wheat and the weeds" Go read it. God told us he did not create evil, and explains why it is allowed to continue. Of course, you don't call Jesus Lord but just take a look. Maybe you will be shocked to find God has answered all of the questions you have, people just don't talk about the right parables/passages which is why you never heard.

Are you saying all people who do evil are sociopaths?

Have you ever thought some people do evil because judgmental people have outcasted them and they feel they gotta do what they gotta do? There are people on child support who will go to jail if they don't come up with the money for the state (not their family, the state).... what if they have a criminal record? What if there are no jobs? So if people are always accountable, judgmental people are the MOST to blame. Want more examples?

You sure do think you have all the answers. Ask yourself; do you use your intelligence to find creative ways to justify your world view?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Are you saying that because if YOU did not want people to do evil, YOU would not give them free will that God would conclude the same?

The conclusion is that people obviously have free will, how did they get it? Who gave them that free will in which they can opt to do evil?

Seeing that you take the Bible literally (and historically) who did God create in his image? Why would God give man free will if he had no idea of the possible outcomes?

Is it so hard to understand the necessity of free will?

We are not discussing the necessity of free will but the consequences.

There is a parable called "The wheat and the weeds" Go read it.

I am familiar with it and it has also been used by the Roman Catholic Church to teach religious tolerance which you would assuredly benefit from.

Are you saying all people who do evil are sociopaths?

Committing an act of evil is rather serious, so yes.

Have you ever thought some people do evil because judgmental people have outcasted them and they feel they gotta do what they gotta do?

So because people have been 'outcasted' (whatever that means) it excuses them to do evil unto their fellow man?

There are people on child support who will go to jail if they don't come up with the money for the state (not their family, the state)....

Do you even kow how child support works? The money 'owed to the state' is collected because the deadbeat parent is in arrears and stopped paying the parent who was entitled to said support. When the state finally collects from this lowlife deadbeat the money is then given to the parent who was intially supposed to be the recipient.

Moral of the story: do not be a deabeat, scumbag parent, take responsibility for reproducing and contribute to raising your offspring.

...what if they have a criminal record?

Yeah? What if?

What if there are no jobs?

The have this thing called unemployement insurance which lasts two years now. If you cannot find a job in two years your lazy ass is not looking hard enough.

So if people are always accountable, judgmental people are the MOST to blame.

No, unaccountable people are most to blame.

Ask yourself; do you use your intelligence to find creative ways to justify your world view?

Being that I hold myself, and only myself, accountable for my actions my world view is completely justified.


Oh, and learn how to use the quote function.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You are the exact definition of a smart dummy.

Oh well.... enjoy your twisted views. Don't ever try to say no one took the time to try with you on judgment day .

You knew I wasn't going to respond to your deceptive post. Deception is of Satan btw. I know you don't know that but as a decent and honest man I feel obligated to warn you.

If you would like to continue, go ahead and quote my entire post and respond to all of it. Otherwise, it is obvious you are being deceptive. Just look at the last two posts.

Either you are so hardened of heart you can not see, or you are actually a bad man. I don't know which one.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You are the exact definition of a smart dummy.

I guess that is better than a dumb dummy.

Oh well.... enjoy your twisted views. Don't ever try to say no one took the time to try with you on judgment day

.

Since I do not believe in it I am not overly concerned.

You knew I wasn't going to respond to your deceptive post.

I knew you were incapable of responding to my post. I cause you to think, thinking makes you question, questioning makes you scared.

Deception is of Satan btw. I know you don't know that but as a decent and honest man I feel obligated to warn you.

It is not that I do not know it, it is that I do not believe it.

If you would like to continue, go ahead and quote my entire post and respond to all of it. Otherwise, it is obvious you are being deceptive. Just look at the last two posts.

You keep blathering on about deception. Is that your defense mechanism when you do not have the ability to address a point or topic? How is addressing your points one at a time 'deceptive'?

Do you know what I think is deceptive? Posting on a DISCUSSION BOARD with no intention of answering questions.

Either you are so hardened of heart you can not see, or you are actually a bad man. I don't know which one.

Niether. I am a rational human being who is willing to take responsiblity for myself and my actions and not blame them on superstitious nonsesne.

reply to post by NarrowGate


After reading the thread you mentioned in your OP and then reading through this thread it is apparent that you misunderstand most of what people are posting. The fact you don't understand it doesn't make their view wrong. I'm a Christian and I do not follow half of what you say. It's all open to interpretation and that is dependent on the reader.

Open your mind a little, your views are very narrow minded. There are no 'known truths' in religion.

reply to post by DaesDaemar




gtfo. No known Truths? Christian.

We are done.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You are the exact definition of a smart dummy.

I guess that is better than a dumb dummy.

Perfect. Thank you.

There is nothing more dangerous than a smart dummy. We have a ton of them out there. Satan uses their pride in their intelligence against them. Or in your terms "they think they know but they have no idea" because there is so much that we don't understand a little bit of understanding can be dangerous. Spread that dangerous little bit of understanding and force others to conform... well you know the rest.

BTW I understood everything.

Our brains are hard-wired different, or some freaking thing who knows. This quote is evidence of that to me. No point in trying to find a middle ground here.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Tell me one known truth then, with irrefutable evidence to support it. Everything is taken on faith, not known truths.

reply to post by DaesDaemar


Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the Savior of all men is God. He is the I AM, existence itself. The Father's Son, and they are One. Along with the Holy Spirit (that is my known Truth and the Catholic Church's,not all Christians - in reference to the Holy Spirit).

Jesus will come to this earth again to judge both the living and the dead.

As for your proof : You are Christian right?

If this is not known truth to you, I am not sure which perverse form of Christianity you adhere to. I have never heard of it, that is certain.

Or are you a JW? Forgot they do not believe those things.

I usually hate putting links to texts rather than discussing, but the following fictional conversation between God and a Mortal, is probably the most profound and eye-opening text on free will and moral duty that I have ever read - so clever - and really is appropriate here in this discussion.

Conversation between God and Mortal
~Reference: Chapter 20, "The Mind's I" by Douglas R. Hofstadter and Daniel C. Dennett

The conversation is titled "Is God a Taoist?"
In my opinion, it is one of the most thought-provoking texts ever written.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
There is nothing more dangerous than a smart dummy.

Nothing is more dangerous than willfull ignorance and you have that in spades.

Satan uses their pride in their intelligence against them.

Who uses it?

Spread that dangerous little bit of understanding and force others to conform...

I know you love to project and accuse others of attemtpting you to adopt their point of view. I would ask your for quotes where I did this but we already now how utterly and totally lazy you are.

Our brains are hard-wired different...

No, it is just that I opted to use mine.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Or are you a JW?

Forgot they do not believe those things.

I love how you cry that other people are not tolerant of you and are attemtping to force their view point on you yet here you are, mocking the Jehovah's Witnesses in all you infinite Roman Catholic tolerance.

reply to post by NarrowGate

God created things and gave them the ability to create. That does not mean god created their creations as well.

sorry for just jumping in...My theory..The creator is reflected in the creation..and through our creator (God) all things were made

how can you honestly say God created pedophiles. That is the most absurd thing I have ever had someone try to convince me of.

It seems absurd because of your perception of what God is or Gods nature...If you see God as the creator of all that is, then logically this wouldn't seem absurd..but if you personify God tha..yea..crazy crazy

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


JW's believe the Archangel Michael was Jesus. They try to convince me of this about once a month.

If that is not humorous.... well whatever. I wasn't mocking. They are the only ones who believe such things, and I generally don't consider them. To call an Angel God is demonic IMHO but whatever.

BTW, you said because I am lazy. Not because they are not there, but because I am lazy. Why should I have to dig up quotes you know are there? It's not like we are on a campaign or anything....right? Either we will hold an intelligent discussion or not.

I thought it over a couple of times. My thoughts on original sin stand. It is only logical.


I won't respond to the rest of your nonsense for obvious reasons.

reply to post by Baddguy


Yes this is true. Excellent point. I do believe God is a person.

The Creator is reflected in His creations true.

In my beliefs, there is an enemy of the creator that He allows. Here is how God put it to me:

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

The wheat is the good in people, and the weeds are the bad in people. Some would say the wheat is children of God, and the weeds are children of Satan. I personally think it is probably the former.