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posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by grownshow
 


Yeah, I am probably crazy! It's the farm girl in me though that just doesn't see my garden as complete until there are corn stalks.

That's why I took a 3 year break from it too! It was just this last fall that Victory Seeds offered 'Orchard Baby' sweet corn, 5-10 germination and 65 days to harvest vs 'Golden Bantam' sweet corn 5-10 days germination, and 78 days to harvest.
This year for the beans, I am trading out my 'Kentucky Wonder' pole bean for 'Gross Brother's Vermont Cranberry' bush bean. They are supposed to like cooler growing conditions.

And Thanks! I never would have imagined I would be having such a nice garden conversation, in December, on ATS.




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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Here are a couple of links as well, most of it comes from books though!
Feel free to ask questions too, I will help out as much as I can!

Victory Seeds

ag.arizona.edu...

www.saveseeds.org...


The last link is from a seed saving trial done over the course of 10 years, pre-GMO technology
edit on 10-12-2012 by woodsmom because: typo



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by new_here
 


You can grow your non GMO corn and get untainted viable seed if you isolate the plants. I am unaware of exact distances between crops, since nobody in their right mind grows corn in Alaska, but the info is out there.

If you live in an area that isn't highly agricultural, then you can probably work your crop so it only self-pollinates. As odd as this sounds, people may have better luck growing untainted corn in backyards and city gardens, because of the lack of pollen transfer.

There are alot of excellent seeds available for wonderful unmodified foods. Ask around too, grandma's and great aunt's may have come from the generations when saving seed was a yearly occurrence! Some of the strains that these companies are offering have been found treasure in someone's attic or basement.

I will go get my seed box out of the crawl space to share some of the varieties that I have tried and am going to try. You will have to forgive my inability to remember offhand, my mind is cluttered with who got their Christmas cards sent and have I done all my shopping! (no)

Hey thanks, I'd love to know what varieties you recommend.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by new_here
 


'Golden Bantam' is one of the first sweet corn varieties that people ate as a fresh veggie,developed in 1902, it was mostly feed and meal corn before that.

I have not tried it yet, but I have seed for 'Orchard Baby' developed around 1947, it may be on the fence for alteration. It is the youngest developed seed that I am willing to try myself.
edit on 10-12-2012 by woodsmom because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by new_here
 



I live between a zone 6 and 7 and i have grown the following heirloom corn

Six Shooter corn
howling mob corn
golden bantam
black mexican
black aztec
Bloody Butcher

I live in a mountainous region and have rocky/crappy soil. All of those varieties have grown pretty easily for me except six shooter. It took forever to germinate and it did not live up to its description (six ears per stalk). Keep in mind NO heirloom corn will ever be as sweet as monsanto's mutant crap. We live in a high frutose fantasy land and for most people, the old timey stuff will have a slight taste of sweetness.

What you intend to do with your corn matters to. Is it entirely to be eaten fresh as sweet corn or do you intend to let it harden and make corn meal out of it in the fall? IMO, bloody butcher is one of the best all purpose corns for my soil type and climate which is what you would expect since it was an heirloom developed in my region during the civil war. You can eat it early before it turns red as a semi sweet corn and then make cornmeal out of what you don't eat fresh. I'm still eating cornbread made out of the bloody butcher i grew last summer.

I disliked golden bantam because the stalks were flimsy and it didn't stand up to our wind very well. The black aztec/mexican comes up quick and has a nice sweet taste if you eat it before it starts to turn black. The howling mob is a standard white heirloom sweet corn. It grows slowly though.

This summer i'm growing the following varieties:

Pencil Cob Corn
Bloody Butcher
Stowels evergreen
Blue Hopi
Howling Mob
Country Gentleman



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by davjan4
 


I am currently using the square foot gardening method too. I have adapted it to my space as well. It is hard to find one method that is all encompassing. My broccoli works best with this method. I am able to plant 36 to 40 plants in a 2x4 ft area. That provides all my boys can eat and I managed to freeze 3-5 lbs this season ( I don't weigh it, I just fill up a bag). On the other hand, my cabbage hates it. I get nice firm, small heads every year, but AK is known for it's 700 plus pound cabbages. The sq ft method confines them too much to make the most of the season.

I am still trying to load your link, thanks!


WHAT!!

36 to 40 broccoli plants in a 2x4 area? These must be some sort of mini-broccoli.

I planted 1 broccoli in each square foot. They got so large I had to thin out half of them. They had 2" "trunks" and are literally 3 FEET TALL! Because they were so close together, and too much nitrogen, they did not produce. I just got a couple of pounds from everything.
Last year I planted them in a row with proper 18": spacing and I got a huge head off of each one and many weeks of side shoot type heads.

I think the Mittleider method has a lot of potential. At first I thought it to not be sustainable, but I just got 4 packs of the pre-mixed micro nutrients, and a 25lb bag of epsom salts. Once I get the 100lbs of 16-16-16 to mix, I'll have enough for several years of fertilizing. It will store forever, and you can stock up 10 years of the stuff in a small area.

This year I am adding 4 chickens for the eggs. To heck with the neighborhood association. There's about a million ducks wandering around our neighborhood, and they don't say anything about that, so I figure what can they say about chickens that I keep?
I did try keeping some of those ducks in my backyard. I lured some back there with bread.
But that lasted about 3 hours before they flew away.
IF I every really get hungry, all I would really need to do is walk up behind one of those ducks and...



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by davjan4
 


Nope, just a standard broccoli, di cicio (spelling?) I did not bring that one upstairs with me.
I pack them in, by the time they start florets the harvest begins


I continually harvest all summer long and the plants continue to produce. I will let a few plants grow good big heads but those are the one's the kids can't reach either! They graze on it all summer, 36 plants was my magic number to have some to harvest finally.

I do prune off some of the large leaves as they fill in too much. That helps them all get the sun they need, otherwise the middle plants would never make it.

My brussels sprouts can be packed in like the broccoli, it helps them too by encouraging them to grow up. I take their leaves almost completely away when the sprouts are starting to round out.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by grownshow
 
Well I have certainly come to the right thread! I was just 'not knowin' on the whole heirloom corn... thanks so much, guys!




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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I ventured into container gardening this year, about 20 buckets from a local bakery got it started. Ended up adding a raised bed by summer's end. My roma tomatoes did well and so did the cucumbers! Been getting seeds from a friend who is active in a seed trading site on fb. She has also shared greasy grit green beans with me. We will both be raising plants just to get them to go to seed, so the following year we might actually save enough to have decent yield. One of the things she swears by and I am testing is freezing the seed. She says she rarely has germination failure because it mimicks the wintering over some seeds require before the will germinate. So part of my saved seeds are stored boxed in cool darkness and some in the freezer. Will check back in the spring and let you know how it turns out for me. In KY here, green and red peppers, pimentos (which I dearly love), and jalepenos took off like wildfire!
All this gardening has led to dehydrating and waterbath and pressure canning. Pickles dill and bread and butters, cowboy candy sweet pickled jalepenos, jams from gleaned berries, made for a busy harvest season. And I am just getting started can't wait to see what happens next year. We have a small chest freezer but in winters here we can't trust the electricity not to go out on us. But the other option on some of those days is just take it outside, if its an ice storm and ambients aren't due to go over 28 degrees then I trust it in critter safe containers. Only had to do this a time or two, but saved loosing the whole lot. That's why I now have two dehydrators running right now with oranges and lemons, cause they gift so well with the mints I grew for teas.
One more thing....On the weekly ATS Survival show there is a gardening segment. Airs on Thursday nights. Look it up, informative and entertaining. It's about skills and knowledge building. Bushcraft on Fire is the show's sister website and has lots of videos and how to's. There's alot about learning the old ways our ancestors used. Tried and true with also a flare of new tools and materials and technology. Kind of a marrying of old and new.
I have saved seeds from flowering bushes, but missed getting the rosehhips to add to my teas. FYI the red bulbous formation after the rose fades is the hip. Just carefully remove the seed interior before drying, back in the day boys would use that for itching powder! But just thinking, can that seed be germinated too? I know we generally get roses from started root balls but just saying.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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The two main problems i have with gardening is mold on squash/pumpkin plants and japanese beatles getting on corn silks. As mentioned earlier in the thread, i've read that skim milk will retard fungus on squash though i've never gotten a chance to try it.

If anyone has an organic way to keep beatles off corn silk and fungus off squash i'd like to hear it.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by grownshow
 


Skim milk might create favorable environment for fungus growth. A vinegar water spray would retard or kill fungus spores. Also a light soap water mix misted on plants for insect deterrent is effective.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by SunflowerStar
reply to post by grownshow
 


Skim milk might create favorable environment for fungus growth. A vinegar water spray would retard or kill fungus spores. Also a light soap water mix misted on plants for insect deterrent is effective.



Several garden forums seem to swear by the milk method


davesgarden.com...

www.ehow.com...

Then again I'm sure i can find some forum on the internet where a poster says darth vader traveled back in time to kidinap the lindbergh baby. That's why i'd be interested to know if someone has personal experience using it.

Regarding soap, have you tried it before on corn silk? I assume you would use natural oil based soap as opposed to something like dial.

I would be very hesitant to use vinegar on any plant even with it watered down. Vinegar is a well known herbicide and i've used it many times to kill unwanted weeds along fence rows.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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Thanks for this thread, it is important knowledge, but also knowledge that takes time to fully understand. You chose a very broad topic with "survival gardens", but I suppose that is what it is, if you're living off of it =D

Around these mountainous parts, where there is no freeze, the most common things planted here nearly year-round are (varieties of each):
- Cabbage
- Peanuts
- Bok choy / chinese cabbage
- Sweet potatoes and potatoes
- Chayote
- Corn
- Green beans
- Squash
- Carrots
- Taro root
- Rice
- Many many many other seasonal things

I have never heard the 3 sisters term here, but it's common here to see corn planted in rows with green beans using the cornstalks as the "sticks" for the beans to climb on. Sometimes squash will be planted in between, but I see peanuts used more often as ground cover than squash, maybe because a heavy squash could break the corn down... but not sure, I'll have to ask =)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by grownshow

Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by grownshow



Edit: Have you ever tried direct planting corn? I've never heard of anyone attempting to transplant corn and its generally discouraged to start heirloom corn indoors.

I have transplanted corn with great results and so has my father who lives in northern Alberta. A few extra weeks is all you need and careful transplanting
.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by grownshow
The two main problems i have with gardening is mold on squash/pumpkin plants and japanese beatles getting on corn silks. As mentioned earlier in the thread, i've read that skim milk will retard fungus on squash though i've never gotten a chance to try it.

If anyone has an organic way to keep beatles off corn silk and fungus off squash i'd like to hear it.


Sure do.. But I don't know if you can access raw/organic large dried tobacco leaves. If you can get them, soak them in water for at least 24 hours, then use the steeped tobacco water in a spray bottle on your plants. The insects are not a fan of that, but you have to keep repeating the spray after rain etc.

Another trick here is to use use tree marigold (Tithonia diversifolia) tops (where the plant is budding), and if you have fleas or other pests you rub the tops of the plants in the floorboards or wherever and it will kill the fleas. You have to do it again in 2 weeks to kill the remaining flea eggs that may hatch. I think you can also soak this plant like the tobacco method above. The plant is VERY bitter and sticky, so fair warning.

I know ducks like to eat snails, but not sure about beatles, and they probably won't be able to climb the cornstalks... =b

Anyways, hope that helps!



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by SunflowerStar
 


You touch on a great point with the chilling of the seed.
Anything that will reseed itself in an area that has a yearly freeze, will probably need to be chilled or frozen. I scatter my poppy seed on top of the snow in January where I want them and they get their chill time outside.

Most veggies that I am aware of however, are more tender, don't freeze corn for sure.Tender herbs should avoid freezing as well.

Honestly, container gardening is probably one of the easiest ways to get started! You can move your plants in and out of direct sun as needed and they get to start with fresh soil. Most of my annual flowers get the prime real estate with the pots!



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Philippines
 


I initially started the thread realizing how little people know about growing their own food.
When thinking of survival most people think of guns and knives and bob's.
In the short term they are necessary tools, but what about the long term?

So many of the scenarios that people are focused on would last longer than a few weeks, which is about all a BOB is good for, for most people. I wanted to remind people that we possess the ability to be self sufficient and feed ourselves! That IS survival to me!

Granted, the thread took a slightly different direction, but none the less, it contains valuable info on where to access good heirloom seed, some step by step instructions and some more in depth problem solving.
All valuable info for people, and they didn't have to garden for years to get the benefit of our lessons learned.


One point I would like to make here though too, and it encompasses my original thought on starting this is:
YOU CANNOT GROW THE SEED, IF YOU DON"T HAVE THE SEED!!!
Thanks for bringing it back around, it is just nice to talk plants when there is snow on the ground!



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by SunflowerStar
 


Be careful spraying vinegar!! It kills it all!
I use it full strength and spray it as a herbicide where I don't want growth and where it is hard to weed.
It keeps my rock around my firepit nice and clear.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by Philippines
 


I initially started the thread realizing how little people know about growing their own food.
When thinking of survival most people think of guns and knives and bob's.
In the short term they are necessary tools, but what about the long term?

Granted, the thread took a slightly different direction, but none the less, it contains valuable info on where to access good heirloom seed, some step by step instructions and some more in depth problem solving.
All valuable info for people, and they didn't have to garden for years to get the benefit of our lessons learned.


One point I would like to make here though too, and it encompasses my original thought on starting this is:
YOU CANNOT GROW THE SEED, IF YOU DON"T HAVE THE SEED!!!
Thanks for bringing it back around, it is just nice to talk plants when there is snow on the ground!


I whole heartably agree about neglecting this aspect of survival. I know plenty of preppers who are armed to the teeth with weaponry but whose food supply consists of water and beef jerky. I imagine that if grocery stores became empty, nutrient deficiency diseases like Scurvy (Vitamin C deficiency), Pellagra (Vitamin B3), and Beriberi (B1) would make a surprising comeback within a year or even a few months. If you can't grow the appropriate combination of vegetables to keep yourself from contracting the deficiency diseases, all the weapons in the world won't save you.

I doubt most people know banana peppers, bell peppers, and winter squash all have vitamin C and can be easily grown. Winter squash, which can be stored from 6 months to a year depending on variety can keep you from getting pellagra if the grocery store shuts down and you can't get orange juice and don't live in the middle of an orchard.

I'm don't consider myself a prepper, but my grandmother did live through the depression with 7 kids and had to grow a substantial amount of her family's food. She taught all seven how to grow huge gardens without heavy farming equipment and that tradition was carried down to me from my father. It was more like a "don't get caught with your pants down" mentality.

As woodsmom said, heirloom seeds are important because unlike the mutant monsanto and dupont seeds, they can be saved from one year to the next.

Btw, I don't think anyone explained this although it was tacitly implied, but there is a reason to plant pole beans with corn other than maximizing food production per area. Legume (bean) roots actually add nitrogen to the soil and corn is a heavily nitrogen dependent. It greatly helps break you from having to use ammonium nitrate.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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In a survival garden, one meant to provide you with as much nutrient dense food as possible, you should include as many varieties as possible. Make sure you cover your bases and have seed for at least one of each types of these plants.

You need a grain, wheat, barley, corn, rice, rye works in colder climates or even quinoa.

Plant legumes such as beans, peas and lentils. Soy and flax are good protein and oil sources as well as nuts and sunflower seeds.

Good root crops include potatoes, turnips, carrots, beets (which are a good feed crop for animals) even radishes.

Greens are easy and super healthy, the darker they are the more calcium they provide, I consider the Brassica's in this category ( Broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, etc)

A few medicinals are always nice too, but innocuous ones if you are unfamiliar, chamomile, mint and raspberry leaf are ideal. Garlic and onion are good seasonings as well as anti-bacterial. Rosemary, thyme, sage and oregano round out a nice herb garden to offer seasoning and medicinal qualities.

A good productive garden can offer good, needed barter materials as well, even without a catastrophe.
All in all a good garden gives you 'food insurance' and the knowledge that you are feeding yourself real healthy food instead of wondering if it will eventually cause cancer, not to mention it is much more rewarding than a membership at the gym.





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