Thanks ATS members (some) for perpetuating hate

reply to post by milominderbinder


I understand your point however when you say that a large portion of christians are stupid what do you think you are perpetuating....there are other ways of you conveying your opinion and I guess that's part of the problem. Because someone elses view is different, they are labled as "stupid"...and the insults continue...

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


I agree that there is a boat load of gramatical errors in my post...my apologies but you really need to relax a bit...carry much hate???

About 98% of the people I meet from organized religions, are the worst hypocrites. That is why.

reply to post by chrismarco


People are mean to you because you're a Christian?

Then forgive them. After all... That's the Christlike thing to do.

Or moan about it on the internet... Choice is yours.

I'm amazed, truly, at how many "stop bashing the Christians" threads I've seen recently... not just here, on other sites too. I'll start off, however, by saying that many of the so-called "anti-Christians" are extremely brash, undiplomatic and bereft of the slightest amount of decorum.

The kind of vibe I'm getting feels like this. Many Christians are told by their leaders, and interpret in their books that they will be persecuted, and that it's simply prophecy. "All these things must come to pass!"

Several Israel/Palestine threads, abortion threads, LGBT rights threads, lib vs. con threads and others on various message boards have Christians who have an unpopular opinion. Due to the possibility that their opinions may be considered abhorrent around a certain topic, they actually feel persecution. After all, what were things in the West like fifty years ago? Two hundred years ago?

As the Christian world-view is somewhat dwindling on the leaderboard of philosophies in this day and age, I'm not surprised that people feel threatened... for lack of a better word. To be fair, there are some awesome, wonderful, spectacular Christians on this thread (and soooo many off of it) who do not deserve the ill treatment that many give them. But what about the others?

Well, for the others I say this:

What did you expect when you posted the thread about Hallow e'en and its "satanic" origins?

What did you expect when you posted those videos on the evils of the New Age philosophies and every non-Christian faith - especially the Eastern ones?

What did you expect when you insinuated that the Antichrist would be a Muslim, or that Islam is rotten to the core?

Honestly, what did you expect when you recited John 8:44 to every atheist, Wiccan, Buddhist, Muslim etc. that decided they didn't agree with you?

Some Christians talk about tough love when they go on these wanton Raids of Rebuke. Well, did it ever occur to them that the "Christian-bashers" are returning that same tough love?

For the record, both parties make me feel like I'm leaving my 80s rather than entering my 20s.

I was raised Baptist and Assembly of God. My parents still believe, however, I do not. At best I am Agnostic. I think there may be something there, but I don't know. It could be God, Allah, Vishnu, Ba'al or any number of things. It could also be nothing. I have seen things that causes me to believe there is something. I refuse to argue about it all. In the end, nobody really knows anything. You can't prove that a god, just like you can't prove without a doubt that there isn't. In short, why don't we all just accept that we don't always agree, and that it's okay. Why can't we just say "I don't know, but I'm okay with that. I believe this, you believe that, lets be friends anyway."

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I understand your point however when you say that a large portion of christians are stupid what do you think you are perpetuating....there are other ways of you conveying your opinion and I guess that's part of the problem. Because someone elses view is different, they are labled as "stupid"...and the insults continue...

edit on 10-12-2012 by chrismarco because: (no reason given)

I'm perpetuating reality. It's not meant as an insult...it's meant as a factual statement for the reasons I identified.

I wouldn't say such a thing if one has a "different view" that can possibly be construed as valid. However, there are certain "views" which are simply so absurd that they don't deserve to be taken seriously....such as the example I used previously about how many christians erroneously declare that creationism is a "competing theory" with Darwinian Evolution.

It's not that I happen to think that my "Theory" is better...it's that only ONE OF THESE meets the qualifications necessary to be called a "Theory". The other one can be classified as a story, myth, literature, cultural tradition, or religious parable...but it CANNOT be classified as a "Theory" because it doesn't meet the rigorous requirements of being a Theory.

Forgive me if my choice of words was blunt...perhaps the word "ignorant", "uneducated" or "poorly read" would be better? Indeed, one could have a very high IQ...but if they are poorly educated they might go through their entire life thinking a Theory is just a piece of random conjecture or a half-formed idea of what someone wishes was true. I'm open to suggestions but whatever choice of words you would prefer...the context of that terminology still needs to accurately convey that only one of these two is a valid Theory and that people who don't know the difference are in some way less cognitively skilled (be it by Nature, Nurture, or some combination thereof) as those who understand that only of these can be taken seriously in a scientific context.

Again...that's not my "opinion"..it's indisputable fact and conforms to the standard rules of logic which Western Thought is based upon and which any high school kid on the local debate team can verify for you. And if we AREN'T using the rules of thought and traditional Logical Fallacies to form the basis of our understanding of the universe...then what the hell ARE we using? It's what our entire civilization is built upon.

Again...what choice of words to you suggest? I'm all ears.

First let me state that I was once a pastor and had to recently reevaluate my faith. I posted here on ATS My Personal Crisis of Faith. I reexamined my counseling model in hopes of better understanding my feelings and frustrations. I would like to offer a theory of human nature in response to why there is so much emotional content in our discussions on ATS, especially when it comes to Christianity, I believe there are two core issues that provide us with our personal sense of substance. I define substance in this case as how we feel about ourselves; whether we see ourselves as adequate or not adequate; respected or not respected; or a part of the circle or outside the circle. These two issues are human longings.

#1. We long for purpose and impact. Our life has meaning because we have purpose. Our life has value because we have impact. My life matters. I am a hard worker! I am a good father or mother.

#2. We long for relationship. We want to be in community. We want to feel part of a larger group of like minded people. I am an American! I am an ATS member!.

I believe all the other emotional behavior and thinking revolves around our sense of those longings being either met or lacking. The more we feel threatened in obtaining or maintaining those longings the more intense our emotional responses. If someone appears to be disrespecting us our response may be anger or even hatred. If someone appears to be better than us we may become envious or jealous. If these longings are not met we can become bitter and resentful of others and attempt to put them in their place (which is usually below us).

These longings are powerful! Very powerful! If we perceive others blocking or threatening us from obtaining their satisfaction we will FIGHT as if our life depended on it, because in our thinking and in relationship to these longings, we believe it does. If we feel someone is blocking us we may initially attempt to convince the other person to agree. If they continue to block we may try to manipulate and if that doesn’t work we may try to threaten by using anger or by shaming. If we believe they are blocking fulfillment of our longings they become our enemy.

These longings even drive our use of medications. If we area salesperson and we are not meeting our sales quota, we might be tempted to use coc aine to give ourselves an edge over our competition. If you are a mother who has an angry distant daughter you might utilize a pain killer to dull the pain of that broken relationship.

They impact our behavior. If I am a kid in the hood with a dysfunctional family I might join a gang for protection and for a sense of belonging. I might shoot someone just to feel the power from the ultimate impact on another person’s life. As a parent we might try to win our child’s affection by giving them whatever they want just to reinforce our sense of maintaining relationship with our kid.

Another issue that drives the lack of civility on ATS is ambiguity. We hate ambiguity! It threatens our sense of substance! That is why so often our battles form along the lines of either black or white. We want what we believe to clearly define us. We want our drink to be either hot or cold. You are either with me or against me. You either support my longings or you threaten them.

Why is it so hard to embrace change, to change our thinking and our behavior? It is because we have embraced what appears to be working and we call it truth. It is our truth and we use it to define and defend ourselves. If what others are saying or demonstrating doesn’t support our belief system we are threatened in our being, in our security, and in our satisfaction. That is why we try to surround ourselves with like minded people. It reinforces our belief system. The result is we tend to then see the world as us and them. We then objectify them as the wrong, weak, inferior, sinners, etc.

We want a recipe that will always give us the perfect cake! It is the same way when it comes to our sense of salvation. We want a perfect recipe to guarantee our eternal lives.
Even though scripture states that we are saved by faith, not by works, lest any man boast; so much of church effort revolves around following a perceived recipe of spiritual ingredients. Tithes, offerings, baptism, speaking in tongues, bible study, prayer, visiting the sick, wearing the right clothes, not wearing jewelry or make up, using or not utilizing musical instruments, and so on and on. We utilize these things as the ingredients in our recipe to guarantee our salvation. These are the very things and differences that denominations formed around. They are the very things that become barriers to others.

We stubbornly hold onto rigid beliefs because we are often afraid of the alternative. Ambiguity doesn't appear to offer hope to satisfy our longings! I am not talking about uncertainty like either it will or it won’t. Ambiguity says maybe or maybe not. So we place our faith in what is black or white because they offer two distinct possibilities. it either will or won’t; it is or isn’t. However, ambiguity just shrugs its shoulders.

So what does this fear of ambiguity lead to? It leads to the greatest fear of all in my opinion! The fear of rejection! Our sense of substance (who we believe we are) is so often dependent on what we perceive others think of us. The temptation then is to present ourselves to others in a way that protects and strengthens our longings for respect and relationship. If their response to us doesn’t appear to support us then we will choose either flight or fight.

I believe there is no greater fear than that of rejection, by man or by God. It is the reflection in the mirror that haunts us all our lives. Faith gives hope that those longings will be satisfied. Faith is the greatest equalizer. It gives no advantage to the greater intellect nor to the richer man. Don’t take that faith away from anyone!

reply to post by chrismarco


I'll say this as simply as I can. I consider myself a part of the New Atheism. Understand that this does not mean that I am anti-religion, in fact if it helps you make sense of the world around you and brings you comfort, so be it. I will also say this, when you or anyone else uses religion/faith as a basis for PUBLIC policy, let me say that again, PUBLIC policy, I will point out every single hole and inconsistency in your faith. I will ridicule, berate, and belittle every part of your belief system.

Once again let me reiterate that I am not anti-religion, however religion has a history of being in charge and that history has frequently resulted in the MURDER of many people. Religion has influenced PUBLIC policy far too much and has shown that it is not capable of promoting freedom. I say this to my christian friends when they tell me that the U.S. is a christian nation "you are partially correct, in that christianity makes up a substantial portion of the population. However you need to read the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights more clearly and point out to me where it states that. After you see that it isn't stated anywhere in there, but in fact the First Amendment grants freedom of religion and that includes my right to not be religious. Then before you force your religious rules on me and mine, please feel free to move to Iran for a few years to live under a theocracy of a religion you don't believe in or understand". That is the point where they usually understand my point.

I live in a very conservative christian, rural part of the U.S. I have a family member that is half Caucasian and half African American, far too many "christians" here still think it is disgusting that a white woman would be with a African American (they actually use a more vulgar word describing him) man.

I'm sure that it is apparent that I focused on christianity in this post, this is due to the fact that most of my experiences are with christians. Let me assure you that if it were muslims, jewish, hindi, or any other religion attempting to influence PUBLIC policy I would be just as defiant.

I have no problem with people praying, I do have a problem with you having prayer in school when there may be a child being singled out because he/she doesn't believe in fairy tales... Keep god out of government until you have undeniable proof that he/she/it exists, I don't believe in a sky fairy and shouldn't be subject to the rules of a bible that outlines what is acceptable payment for raping a woman. Or the correct people to enslave or how to stone a woman for not being a virgin...

reply to post by chrismarco


Well said, I grow tired of how those who believe in nothing force their beliefs down others throats, their belief is just that, a belief, yet they condemn Christians for theirs, sad, I am also saddened by the hatred towards Jews on ATS. Jesus is the one atheists truly hate, He hung out with the worst of the worst and sacrificed Himself for us all, yet atheists refuse to see, so they put their faith in nothing.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by chrismarco
I find it amazing that some many on here believe in big foot, aliens, demons and ghosts but if someone who's a christian is a moron in many of your eyes.

Religious people are free to believe that a pink elephant nestling in a tree is their god.

However, when their beliefs start to reduce other people's rights, then people who don't believe in a pink elephant nestling in a tree are perfectly entitled to criticize those beliefs.

edit on 9-12-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

People posting information based on their Christian beliefs is not reducing the rights of anyone else. it is them stating their opinion, based on their personal beliefs. Just like every single other person does on the site. I have never seen a single Christian post here in a way that would infringe on anyone's rights. I have, however, seen people post to the effect that Christians should have no right to state their opinions, if those opinions are based on Christian beliefs. So who is trying to reduce whose rights here?

I think what the OP is trying to say is (and please, OP, correct me if I am mistaken); if people can post stuff about Mayan calendars, ancient Buddhist stories, New Age practices, alien benefactors or enemies, and so on, then Christians should be able to post on their beliefs as well, without being told they have no right to do so, or being called names.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
I think what the OP is trying to say is (and please, OP, correct me if I am mistaken); if people can post stuff about Mayan calendars, ancient Buddhist stories, New Age practices, alien benefactors or enemies, and so on, then Christians should be able to post on their beliefs as well, without being told they have no right to do so, or being called names.

That's where the problem lies on the interwebs, especially with several Christian and Muslim communities.

Yes, many people have an interest in the supernatural/spiritual, and there are udles of various practices to follow. All of them, at some point, will endure ridicule from "sceptics" who have no manners.

People have been called "crazy" and "delusional" for every single belief around here and elsewhere, and as much as Christians get it bad, they don't get the worst of it. In fact, sometimes they even can be the perpetrators.

Some of the Christian responses I've heard to Eastern religions, the New Age, Islam, etc, are simply appalling! To tell someone that their idea is a pile of stool is one thing... to tell them it's demonic and evil and that they will burn for it (when it doesn't hurt anyone else, and it has been said here and elsewhere), and then to hide behind "We say it because we love you!" is way overboard.

But I believe in freedom of speech. I really do. Just not with this:

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

... without being told they have no right to do so, or being called names.

Yes, freedom of speech for all and any! But I believe freedom still has consequences. Some of the things I've seen irreligious people write and say on here are downright deplorable, and also show they have no understanding of that which they oppose. Of course, they should be allowed to say it. But if we can't measure a person by their words and actions, where do we stand?

I reserve the right to say anything I want. In return, I must understand that some will ridicule me, rebuke me, and I'll tolerate anything up to the point of actual harm, since that's where the freedom should protect me.

When a New Age thread, or Buddhist thread or such posits a belief, there's the inevitability of a Christian walking in to say,

"Deception! You have been deceived! You're practising fallen behaviour! You have no sense of morality! Repent! Repent! Repent!"

Not just here, but almost everywhere. If someone calls the Christian (or Muslim, sometimes) out on it, they respond, "But this is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it."

Now we turn the tables. Christian posits an unpopular belief. The inevitable atheist pops in to say "You stupid this-or-that! Go god-bother someone else, no one wants to be infected with your reality deficiency!"

The atheist gets called out on it. They say "My opinion, get over it." But it won't stop there, because he'll be called out for "persecuting" others with his opinion. What can anyone say to that?

It is weird, though. I think fundamentalist Christians on the Internet are treated by everyone else the same way that Calvinists are treated by Christians in general. The similarities are disturbing, but not surprising for me. Just an opinion though.

reply to post by chrismarco


Rahim, an indian philosopher once said - nindak niyare rakhiye which means one should keep his bashers near himself.
why?? because the bashers consumed by hate transfer their good karmas to you.

I just think these rants create more problems than solutions. Aren't we here, on ATS, to broaden our horizons in the knowledge department?

How about this: if you believe in God, awesome. If you don't, great. Let's just leave it at that and no one will be offended.

Then we can start talking about how we're going to arrest Ben Bernanke.

Lima-1, out.

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by chrismarco

 

Yea, Im not really that religious but I am still amazed at the religious hate that goes on around here and other sites as well.
Why dont people just leave people alone, if you wanna believe in god, good for you, if you dont, good for you too but dont attack each other for that belief.

It doesn't matter if these beliefs are religious, or if someone believes that the moon landings were a hoax, without any evidence to back up their claims then they are just spreading lies, disinformation, or like a mindless bird they are just repeating (believing) what they've heard without doing any solid research

News flash Jiggerj, Conspiracy "Theories" dont require a lot of evidence, otherwise they wouldnt be theories.
Quit trying to dictate thread/posting protocol on a conspiracy site.

edit on 12/9/2012 by Juggernog because: (no reason given)

The great majority of "theories" on this website aren't theories solely for that exact fact. They aren't backed by enough evidence or explanation. By definition, JiggerJ is correct.