The AGE OLD question? WHERE IS and who is ACTUALLY talking to God, aka Source Entity or Origin

God is your maker

What you think you are is entirely your responsibility

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Like I said you do not understand the bible and don't assume what you consider that I believe. Because my views are so far away from the traditional church views I sometimes struggle with the term Christian. The hell you are speaking of you have already experienced. We all have and it was justified by the actions we took. The question becomes do you continue to do the things that put you there or do you decide to love? I believe that anyone that truly follows love is following Christ since he left one command, love your brother. However true disciples of Christ will be taught a deeper love through the spirit.

You said you don't teach love by giving pain. You are right but you do teach pain through pain and how can you know love if you don't truly know pain? We choose our path, if we choose to sin, then we will obtain that knowledge that comes with that sin. If we choose to love than we will obtain a better kind of knowledge. The choice belongs to all of us, we can each choose the path we want to take to learn.

I try not to do a lot of thinking because it's much easier just to let the teacher teach. I am the student so I try not to get in the way.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Like I said you do not understand the bible and don't assume what you consider that I believe.

Wait. So, if I disagree, that automatically means I don't understand?

Because my views are so far away from the traditional church views I sometimes struggle with the term Christian. The hell you are speaking of you have already experienced. We all have and it was justified by the actions we took.

Speak for yourself.

The question becomes do you continue to do the things that put you there or do you decide to love? I believe that anyone that truly follows love is following Christ since he left one command, love your brother. However true disciples of Christ will be taught a deeper love through the spirit.

Why does it have to be Jesus? And once again, it's not Christ. He wasn't Christ until the Greeks happened. Anyway, why not Ghandi? Why not Martin Luther King? Why not Mother Theresa? Why not George Carlin? There's a lot of people you can emulate and live a damn good life. It doesn't have to be Jesus.

Hell, even Morgan Freeman! Can't go wrong with that guy!

You said you don't teach love by giving pain. You are right but you do teach pain through pain and how can you know love if you don't truly know pain?

So who's trying to teach pain?

We choose our path, if we choose to sin, then we will obtain that knowledge that comes with that sin. If we choose to love than we will obtain a better kind of knowledge. The choice belongs to all of us, we can each choose the path we want to take to learn.

Sin is completely necessary for learning. Like Simba and Raffiki. Get hit on the head with a stick, you'll duck the next time around.

I try not to do a lot of thinking because it's much easier just to let the teacher teach. I am the student so I try not to get in the way.

...So in order to learn, you try not to think? Do you understand that in order to learn, connections must be made within the mind, and you can't do that unless you're thinking? You can't understand ANYTHING unless those gears are moving. That's how you learn.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Where are they? Source Entity and Origin? Why have we been left alone for so long? Why the awful lingering silence and where are their mouthpieces? Is there no one in existance that speaks to them for them (other than the papal which is not viable) and can let the humble simple dumbed down human know its fate?

edit on 9-12-2012 by vethumanbeing because: expand a simple concept into smithereen type purportions thus imploding itself into oblivion

He is within his people, who are his temples. To speak to him all we need do is look inside ourselves and pray. When you speak to us you speak to him. You do not need a priest to speak to him, for all his people are his priests. He has never left us alone, he's always been here.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I don't know how throwing people into a lake of fire for all of eternity teaches them to love. I don't know how ANY form of punishment teaches them to love. If you want someone to love, you SHOW them love. You show them how you express love, and they learn by example. They begin to connect that emotion to the world around them.

You don't teach love by giving pain. That's a sadistic way of doing things.

You are on the right track, along with a lot of folks who sense that there is a disconnect between a loving God, and the wicked enduring a burning Hell for all eternity.

I point you to a few things I have discovered, for the Truth points to Itself:

God is Love.

"Hell" for the most part, means the "Grave." Hel, Hades, Inferno, all come from pagan sources. "Hell" can also be a verb, meaning, to bury.

God's Law never, NEVER, applies a worse punishment than death.

Eternal punishment for temporal sins is a logical absurdity. God is not absurd.

The Lake of Fire is as close as we get to finding an Inferno/Hell in the Bible. Sinners are certainly thrown into it - but wait - God depicts Himself as a refining fire. The LoF is to refine the Lost, so that they can be redeemed and saved. It is not depicted as a punishment.

"Hell," as commonly presented, condemns man, demeans God, removes hope, faith, and even Love. It destroys everything.

The Bible states that Death and Hell are thrown into the LoF, sooooooo, how can anyone be dead and in Hell after that happens? The Bible disproves Hell, after all.

Spend some time over at Tentmaker.org - they/we are a friendly bunch. We have answers.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

...So in order to learn, you try not to think? Do you understand that in order to learn, connections must be made within the mind, and you can't do that unless you're thinking? You can't understand ANYTHING unless those gears are moving. That's how you learn.

No that is how you learn. I simply listen to God and believe him. Are you reading my posts? I am clearly claiming to be able to talk with God, but it is usually me doing all the listening like in the book of Job. I am kind of like Job in that story going on and on about this and that. And God is exactly the way he is in the book of Job telling me to shut up and listen. The lesson is on love and we learn by God's rules.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You say that sin is a necessary part of love. Then you ask who teaches pain? What don't you see? You teach the pain and testify against yourself by claiming that it is necessary for you to sin. God does not teach through pain although he will use the pain that we create for ourselves and others to teach us about love. But the bible makes it clear, until you give up sin you can't really know the love of the father.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Eternal punishment for temporal sins is a logical absurdity. God is not absurd.

No he isn't, so why do you keep contradicting him?

John 5:26-29

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Comdemned = damned. They are cut off. Spiritually dead forever, the second death.

God is Love.

He is also righteousness and a righteous God punishes the wicked.

Daniel 12:2

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Keyword everlasting.

Obadiah 1:10 (regarding the decendants of Esau)

10 “For violence against your brother Jacob,
Shame shall cover you,
And you shall be cut off forever.

And ofcourse:

Matthew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Everlasting = forever without end. Do the wicked and the fallen angels actually burn forever? I can't say for sure, but i do know they are cut off from God's light for eternity, cast into the outter darkness, punishment for eternity.

Cut off means to die, be killed or be dead. To no longer be alive. The second death is to be cut off forever, spiritually dead for eternity. Everlasting condemnation, is to experience physical and spirutal death for eternity. Also known as Oblivion, non existence.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


You don't know how to read. My apologies, I thought you did. Come back when you learn to read and we'll talk more then.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by sacgamer25

you go look for non-solar light, without an identifiable source, which is not found on any planet, asteroid, or meteor in the Universe.

You are terrestrial, found on a planet. Nice try though.

~ Scribe

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

No he isn't, so why do you keep contradicting him?

John 5:26-29

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Comdemned = damned. They are cut off. Spiritually dead forever, the second death.

That's circular logic. People never learn, do they? This is the definition of insanity - doing the same thing repeatedly, expecting a different result. Or in this case, repeating it ad infinitum, expecting us to finally accept it.

It is no less absurd than the first time I heard it.

He is also righteousness and a righteous God punishes the wicked.

He created everything. Therefore, he is the father of such wickedness. Should he not therefore destroy himself as well? I did not know a righteous god could create evil. That's what "Satan" is, right? And "God" created him. "God" is the father of evil. What does a righteous being do with such a thing?

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

You are terrestrial, found on a planet. Nice try though.

As are you. It would appear you are attempting to elevate your status in relation to the rest of mankind. Not a wise move.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

You don't know how to read. My apologies, I thought you did. Come back when you learn to read and we'll talk more then.

My, my, we ARE condescending, aren't we? Perhaps you should return when you are better prepared to carry a civilized conversation instead of attacking people because you misunderstand the point they're trying to make and fail to understand their humor when they try to lighten the subject.

But, you know, that's all on you. I'm sure you'd much rather stay and not be useful some more.

reply to post by sacgamer25

You say that sin is a necessary part of love. Then you ask who teaches pain? What don't you see? You teach the pain and testify against yourself by claiming that it is necessary for you to sin.

I say that sin is necessary to learn, period. What you learn is what you choose to take from the experience. Testify against myself? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. You cannot learn without making mistakes, or we would be akin to some gods we've heard of, yes? We would be born knowing everything we will ever learn. What is the point, then, of living? To just wander aimlessly around and build stuff and kill each other?

No. Ignorance is a beautiful thing when you take the time to coax it into understanding. Ignorance is the seed, understanding in the tree. You could even call it the Tree of Knowledge.

God does not teach through pain although he will use the pain that we create for ourselves and others to teach us about love. But the bible makes it clear, until you give up sin you can't really know the love of the father.

I disagree with the Bible. If we give up sin, we give up the opportunity to learn. Sure, it's easy for an omniscient being to say, "Do not sin." He knows everything already. He CREATED sin. But it's a lot harder for a species that is born knowing nothing. A little unfair, that.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
The Bible disproves Hell, after all.

Spend some time over at Tentmaker.org - they/we are a friendly bunch.

Eternity is real. Hell is real. Heaven is real...

Eternity is FAR too long and Heaven far too beautiful to throw your life away because of deception.

Gary Amirault (Tentmaker.org) gets the infamous Skull and Crossbones Award for his dangerous teachings. He spreads his beloved doctrine and heresy of Universalism (everyone will be saved) as Christian truth. That teaching is also known as the Doctrine of Inclusion, Ultimate Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Universal Redemption or Universal Restoration. Gary Amirault propagates this false doctrine primarily by:

● presenting partial truths as the whole truth

● citing something instead of the Scriptures for evidence —namely the ante Nicene fathers, who believed in Universalism (giving the false impression they all believed the same way, which they didn’t)

● distorting the few Scriptures and not comparing them to other related Scriptures

● misapplying God’s love while overlooking His justice and righteousness

● wrongly thinking God’s will in salvation is always done among man

Gary Amirault (and all others like him) have to distort, deny, contradict and/or avoid all those Scriptures to embrace the dangerous doctrine that all will go to heaven because Jesus died for everyone.

■ WARNING: Gary Amirault is not correctly handling the Scriptures and, therefore, is spreading a fine-sounding lie (and heresy) as God’s truth to the eternal and spiritual detriment of all those who believe it.

www.evangelicaloutreach.org...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Murgatroid


This evangalical clap trap will not only keep empowering corrupt forces. It ensures that people will not be "saved"

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Where are they? Source Entity and Origin? Why have we been left alone for so long? Why the awful lingering silence and where are their mouthpieces? Is there no one in existance that speaks to them for them (other than the papal which is not viable) and can let the humble simple dumbed down human know its fate?

edit on 9-12-2012 by vethumanbeing because: expand a simple concept into smithereen type purportions thus imploding itself into oblivion

God cannot be found within the creation. The creation is not the truth because it is a creation– a fabrication. Therefore, the truth is not the creation. The truth is absolute. The creator is the truth because the creation comes from the creator. So if you are looking for the truth within a lie, you are wasting your time, so to speak.

The truth is not the sought, it is the seeker. I am what is; observing and creating from myself what is not. We are one creator/observer. We are behind all eyes. We cannot be know, but can know. The creation is at best, but not quite, an approximate representation of what we are, but it is always changing while we remain unchanged. Therefore we are greater than the sum of our parts.

You cannot know what you are.

reply to post by smithjustinb

God cannot be found within the creation. The creation is not the truth because it is a creation– a fabrication. Therefore, the truth is not the creation. The truth is absolute. The creator is the truth because the creation comes from the creator. So if you are looking for the truth within a lie, you are wasting your time, so to speak.

How would you know anything about such matters? You have never created a living creature with anything other than your sperm cells, and you most certainly wouldn't know objective truth if you saw it. You'd be too busy determining if you were comfortable with it or not. If you weren't, you would declare it a lie and look for a "truth" you're comfortable with.

A creation is not a lie unless it is designed to rebel against its own nature. Even if its form and very awareness were projected from a completely different being, the only reason it would be construed as a lie is because we're too self-absorbed to realize we are the dream of a higher being.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


And how would you presume to know what I know or know what I would do in any situation. Do you think you know me? All of your ideas about who and what I am are not and can never be the truth. So you might as well shut up. Or don't. It makes no difference to me. It's your creation.

I am known by a million names. So what am I?