The AGE OLD question? WHERE IS and who is ACTUALLY talking to God, aka Source Entity or Origin

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posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...There IS a common; you have to meet My Lawyer Daniel Webster.

Don't know if this is pointing at me as the Devil...or...more symbolically/allegorically to the story...(in which case, I'll be investing a little (optimistic) more thought).




posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
...Hey WanDash…

I noticed you said on my other thread, that you used to be a Christian, or that you were brought up a Christian…

I hope vethumanbeing doesn’t mind me posting this here, but I would like to offer you a small excerpt of my own spiritual journey, which you can find here. It’s fairly brief, and although I could have put more detail into, such as numerous synchronicities leading up too, and during it; it does get the basic story across. I’m not expecting you to believe it all, but I thought it might at least offer you some food for thought and will give you a better idea, of where I’m coming from.

Peace…

Thank you, JC... Will surely give it a look & see.
Will get back with you when I've had time to consider.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...There is some very hottly disputed discussion regarding Jesus and who he actually was. First time human fully 9D yes. Source Entity the creator of this universe says (Its creator Origin) was Jesus. I can tell you right now this is not so. Reason, to pass the buck and blame and not have to admit it created another 2000 years of patriarchal oppression, one eyedness as to repercussions of that: even more human clamity/confusion. Is Jesus God, Is God Jesus? Who was Jesus. Just another yank to the humans chain. 25 cents please.


WanDash
Am familiar with at least some of the hot-disputes...
Fully 9D - Is that 9th Dimension (or 9-Dimensional)?
Maybe I haven't said it to you, but this, for whatever reason, reminds me of some of what I was told about the teachings found within Urantia...(but - not really)
the 25 cents) ------ (may take time)...


Fully 9D dimensional. You are familiar with The Urantia Book? This text came to me in 1995 and was has been the best carnival ride ever; 2100 pages small font of Midwayer Commission, Seraphim, Devine Counselor, Perfector of Wisdom, Melchizedekian teachings. The book actuallly fell out of a bookcase in a Barnes and Noble right at my feet. Could not ignore it. Another take on everything although I was suspicious of it. For $19.95 cash american I convinced the guy behind me in line to pay for it.
edit on 4-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...Fully 9D dimensional. You are familiar with The Urantia Book? That was the text that started it all for me in 1995 and was has been the best carnival ride ever; 2000 pages small font of Midwayer Commission, Seraphim, Devine Counselor, Perfector of Wisdom, Melchizedekian teachings. Outstanding.

I am familiar. In fact (a little rabbit trail, here):
In 2008, I was working in Kansas (central Kansas) on a project that included a number of delightful characters from various other states. Only one of our compadres was actually from Kansas (won't name the town), and he and I became fairly close (loveable guy) - His former years had been a chef (touring) for big name performers.
I don't recall how the subject came up, (seems it was between a number of the "crew members") but he mentioned The Urantia Book, I had read a little about it in prior research, and he ended up purchasing & giving me a copy of the book.
When I went home for a weekend, I asked my daughter to let her boyfriend look at it...and then, I've not seen it again. (Told me they knew they'd given it back... I knew they hadn't...and gave up... But in recent weeks, she told me she found it...and...still hasn't given it back. I believe I will get it, though, sometime soon.)
An odd story about this sequence of events is... About the time he gave me the book, I handed him a copy of "Rush, Live in Rio"... He returned home for the weekend (on a Friday afternoon), promising to watch it...and I got a call from him the following morning, saying - "You're coming to Kansas City tonight."
This was "out of the blue", and I naturally asked "why?". He said - "You won't believe it, but - when I got home, my former business partner called and asked me to help this weekend - and I have a back-stage pass for you to see RUSH!".
Believe it or not, I declined the invitation as I was in the midst of some pretty dark times (psychologically, etc).
He was involved in some "group" that had been meeting in a fairly regular fashion for (I think he said) 10 years or so.
Anyway... When I had the book, I only got to read a little bit of it...and BOY was it different than anything I'd read before.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...There IS a common; you have to meet My Lawyer Daniel Webster.

Don't know if this is pointing at me as the Devil...or...more symbolically/allegorically to the story...(in which case, I'll be investing a little (optimistic) more thought).


An allegory. A movie "The Devil and Daniel Webster". A court drama made in the late 40s that describes a scenario or trial of human morality the Devil and Daniel Webster are the defenders or procecutors both probably point is whom outwits the other and wins, in subtle form how and why.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...The book actuallly fell out of a bookcase in a Barnes and Noble right at my feet. Could not ignore it. Another take on everything although I was suspicious of it. For $19.95 cash american I convinced the guy behind me in line to pay for it. ...

Didn't see this...
Couldn't let it go by without comment -- You're collecting the $19.95 from Joecroft, myself and/or others, to pay this guy back?



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by verthumanbeing
As Herod the Great yes, corrupted by his Roman overseerers, and walking a fine line between trying to keep his constituancy calm, paying taxes and not calling attention to an inablily to contain this. The last thing he wanted was a potencial Jewish Messiah to land on his lap.


Oh man, not Herod Antipas again; well at least I let Jesus go, and found him not guilty of the charges.

Btw – where do you fit into all this? In terms of that list, on my other thread etc…




Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Validate? by whom someone living in this time period also reincarnated? Let me see who have met lately just landed on my doorstep..Joseph of Armiathia. A Kansas native from a farming family;community near Salina. He is now a land buyer developer multimillionaire SCAMMER. What is funny about him is that he has always referred to himself in the third person as a Jew. Take that for what its worth, just quoting.


Hmmm what’s the difficulty here…defining the word Validate, or the process of validating?

You know…how do you know, that your truth, is the truth lol I’m guessing in your unique individual case lol that it might be just all down to your experiences. Nothing wrong with that… just curious.



Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I never thought of you as an atheist. If you could lable yourself without words such as Christian Gnostic, what would they be, as in a brand new form of belief relelated to your personal truths. Maybe it would be a good excersise for everyone.


Due to some recent discussions on ATS ( not a change in my beliefs) I’m starting to lean towards the Easten Othodox Churches, but perhaps Yeshua follower, might be an appropriate label for now.




Originally posted by verthumanbeing
No, I actually think there are more cooks there in the kitchen, some have better soups than others is all. The fun is sorting them out from the higher ranking to the lesser.


Woohoo, Common ground at last. Time to crack open the champagne, and celebrate. This is a major breakthough in communications lol



Originally posted by verthumanbeing
At least Kirk Douglas and Metro Goldwyn Meyer would'nt.


lol




Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Any talk of God or to SE (you are right) would cover or be in the specs of this OP. I am glad--and always looking for an introduction or a good party


Well during my experience, I heard Gods voice, speaking the Lords prayer, which in light of the rest of my journey, has gota count for something.


- JC
edit on 4-2-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
...a small excerpt of my own spiritual journey, which you can find here. It’s fairly brief, and although I could have put more detail into, such as numerous synchronicities leading up too, and during it; it does get the basic story across. I’m not expecting you to believe it all, but I thought it might at least offer you some food for thought and will give you a better idea, of where I’m coming from.
...

Thanks for the insight!
Love hearing/reading of others' experiences & journeys.
On account of my own experiences, however, I generally simply place the explanations on a shelf for later review. Don't discount them, deny them, or otherwise judge them "wrong"...just need to see if my perspective might change as more information is added to the mix.
I thought I "knew" for so long, that I no longer think I "know" much of anything.
May add more as I've had time to digest.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by WanDash
 



Hey WanDash…

I noticed you said on my other thread, that you used to be a Christian, or that you were brought up a Christian…

I hope vethumanbeing doesn’t mind me posting this here, but I would like to offer you a small excerpt of my own spiritual journey, which you can find here. It’s fairly brief, and although I could have put more detail into, such as numerous synchronicities leading up too, and during it; it does get the basic story across. I’m not expecting you to believe it all, but I thought it might at least offer you some food for thought and will give you a better idea, of where I’m coming from.

Peace…

- JC


No problem here; God is everexpanding in explaining itself--Next Friday at the Elks Club, Bingo Night.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by WanDash
 





Originally posted by WanDash
Thanks for the insight!
Love hearing/reading of others' experiences & journeys.
On account of my own experiences, however, I generally simply place the explanations on a shelf for later review. Don't discount them, deny them, or otherwise judge them "wrong"...just need to see if my perspective might change as more information is added to the mix.
I thought I "knew" for so long, that I no longer think I "know" much of anything.
May add more as I've had time to digest.


That’s quite alright.

My exerpiences have shown me that the truth lies between aspects of standard Christianity, and Gnostic Christianity. Would take too long to explain everything in detail and I’m still ironing a few things out myself.

I’ve heard of the Urantia Book, but never looked into it in any depth; Although I have read that there are extra verses in comparison to that of the 4 Gospels.

- JC

edit on 4-2-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...An allegory. A movie "The Devil and Daniel Webster". A court drama made in the late 40s that describes a scenario or trial of human morality the Devil and Daniel Webster are the defenders or procecutors both probably point is whom outwits the other and wins, in subtle form how and why. ...

Okay - well...very sorry, but, in looking into this, I have stumbled upon what might be one of my own short circuits, or...otherwise...
Please excuse, dismiss or delete this excursion if you count it too off topic...
BUT - in searching out the arguments proferred by Daniel Webster &/or The Devil, I stumbled upon a Mathematics Website, that used said "story" for a mathematical problem/exercise...AND, I find the logic they used in constructing the exercise (thus, what would be expected of students) in error.
Here is a link to the webpage...
illuminations.nctm.org...
The Devil and Daniel Webster is a short story by Stephen Vincent Benet about a New Hampshire farmer who sells his soul to the Devil and is defended by American statesman Daniel Webster. The problem below uses this context, which provides an interdisciplinary connection, although the problem given here is not taken directly from the story.
Set up the problem by reading the following to students:

The devil made a proposition to Daniel Webster. The devil proposed to pay Daniel for services in the following way:
On the first day, I will pay you $1000 early in the morning. At the end of the first day, you must pay me a commission of $100; so, your net salary that day is $900. At the start of the second day, I will double your salary to $1800; but at the end of the second day, you must double the amount that you pay me to $200. Will you work for me for a month?

Ask students to describe the pattern for Day 3, Day 4, and so on. Students should recognize that Daniel's salary at the beginning of Day 3 will be $3200 (since the amount he had at the end of Day 2 was $1600), and he will need to pay the Devil an amount of $400 at the end of Day 3 (since he had paid $200 on the previous day).

If you find this exercise "sound or unsound" in construction, please let me know.
I will offer my take, if you're so inclined.
AGAIN - you can also just "dismiss this out of mind", and I won't be offended in the least.
edit on 2/4/2013 by WanDash because: color - no color



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...The book actuallly fell out of a bookcase in a Barnes and Noble right at my feet. Could not ignore it. Another take on everything although I was suspicious of it. For $19.95 cash american I convinced the guy behind me in line to pay for it. ...

Didn't see this...
Couldn't let it go by without comment -- You're collecting the $19.95 from Joecroft, myself and/or others, to pay this guy back?


Actually everyone in the line paid at least a buck you were in front of me buying the Kama Sutra; Joe was at the end of the line buying The Anarchists Cookbook.
edit on 4-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...An allegory. A movie "The Devil and Daniel Webster". A court drama made in the late 40s that describes a scenario or trial of human morality the Devil and Daniel Webster are the defenders or procecutors both probably point is whom outwits the other and wins, in subtle form how and why. ...

Okay - well...very sorry, but, in looking into this, I have stumbled upon what might be one of my own short circuits, or...otherwise...
Please excuse, dismiss or delete this excursion if you count it too off topic...
BUT - in searching out the arguments proferred by Daniel Webster &/or The Devil, I stumbled upon a Mathematics Website, that used said "story" for a mathematical problem/exercise...AND, I find the logic they used in constructing the exercise (thus, what would be expected of students) in error.
Here is a link to the webpage...
illuminations.nctm.org...
The Devil and Daniel Webster is a short story by Stephen Vincent Benet about a New Hampshire farmer who sells his soul to the Devil and is defended by American statesman Daniel Webster. The problem below uses this context, which provides an interdisciplinary connection, although the problem given here is not taken directly from the story.
Set up the problem by reading the following to students:

The devil made a proposition to Daniel Webster. The devil proposed to pay Daniel for services in the following way:
On the first day, I will pay you $1000 early in the morning. At the end of the first day, you must pay me a commission of $100; so, your net salary that day is $900. At the start of the second day, I will double your salary to $1800; but at the end of the second day, you must double the amount that you pay me to $200. Will you work for me for a month?

Ask students to describe the pattern for Day 3, Day 4, and so on. Students should recognize that Daniel's salary at the beginning of Day 3 will be $3200 (since the amount he had at the end of Day 2 was $1600), and he will need to pay the Devil an amount of $400 at the end of Day 3 (since he had paid $200 on the previous day).


If you find this exercise "sound or unsound" in construction, please let me know.
I will offer my take, if you're so inclined.
AGAIN - you can also just "dismiss this out of mind", and I won't be offended in the least


Not at all.
This would make a good game to play premise wise. I suppose I'm thinking in the broader terms of human dilema, not particulars; a problem of mine is seeing the whole and not the pieces. Its my nature no clue why.
Let me think; because it falls within the perimeters of the film, A moral Question, not having known it was a book I thought It was a screen play. Kind of like watching "Apocolyplse Now" and not knowing it was "Heart of Darkness". But its an expansion of an arguement or thought. No thing wrong with that; you/no I realise when watching a depiction of 'something' my understanding of it will be different than that of my next door theater seat elbowing neighbor. For instance, watching Avatar one would sit messmerized, while another would walk out because the colors were too blue, too green, too orange too yellow. Different experience of the same thing.

Not unsound at all, I'm wondering about the strength of idea interpreted true, one I can say the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" Harper Lee and the Film with Gregory Peck was to me identical. What exactly are we supposed to be witnessing? Ourselves acting out as Humans book form or filmwise and we still have to pay money to watch it or read it whether its a movie ticket or a book on the shelf. Always have to put myself forward first and WIN.
edit on 4-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
...I’ve heard of the Urantia Book, but never looked into it in any depth; Although I have read that there are extra verses in comparison to that of the 4 Gospels.

Yes...just a few - but the Time Stamps prevent unprofessional tampering in Photoshop or other discrediting devices.
The little that I did read was mind-blowing with details that made you question - How could someone/ANYone make that up?



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by Joecroft
...I’ve heard of the Urantia Book, but never looked into it in any depth; Although I have read that there are extra verses in comparison to that of the 4 Gospels.

Yes...just a few - but the Time Stamps prevent unprofessional tampering in Photoshop or other discrediting devices.
The little that I did read was mind-blowing with details that made you question - How could someone/ANYone make that up?


I read the whole thing, Im holding It in my hands It looks and feels too much like a bible even with a ribbon as a placemark. It is a very interesting look at ancient history, anthropology, creation. Urantia Foundation,533 Diversey Parkway Chicago, IL. Here is a funny, I lived in Chicago, at the intersection of Racine, Lincoln, Diversey. They were right down the street. But as Joe said, my life experiences are full of wonder or are have been the most extreme coincidences ever. Baffling none the less.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...I suppose I'm thinking in the broader terms of human dilema, not particulars; a problem of mine seeing the whole and not the pieces. Its my nature is all.
Let me think about it; ok because it falls within the perimeters of the film, A moral Question, not having read the book is I Thought It Was A ScreenPlay. Kind of like watching "Apocolyplse Now" and not knowing it was "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad. It is an expansion of an arguement or thought. No thing wrong with that; you must realise when watching a depiction of 'something' your understanding of it will be most different than that of your theater seat partner. For instance, watching Avatar one would sit messmerized, while another would walk out because the colors were too blue, too green, too orange and yellow.

Not unsound at all, I'm wondering about the strength of idea interpreted true, one I can say the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" Harper Lee and the Film with Gregory Peck was spot on. What exactly are we supposed to be witnessing? Ourselves acting out as Humans book form or filmwise and we still have to pay money to witness it whether its a movie ticket or a book on the shelf....

I remember when attending school... We were at the end of the course. My GPA was 4.0 (100%)...until the final exam.
The posing of one question was imprecise enough, that it made two answers "correct", with one of the two being a "little more correct" than the other. I selected the "little more correct" answer, and my answer was counted wrong. After finding that they had marked me "wrong", I argued my case...school officials (at the level I could speak with) agreed that my case was valid...but said - "Sorry - this is the answer from the organization that developed the test...and others gave the answer we prepped them for... It doesn't matter, though - You'll graduate #2 in the entire class."
Didn't matter to them - but it did to me.
Here's what I find wrong with the problem (construction - setup)...
Day 1 - $1,000 less $100 (leaves $900)
Day 2 - $1,800 less $200 (leaves...WHAT?)
(...they say that this leaves $1,600... Well, it leaves $1,600 for that day...but, it leaves $2,500 cumulative)
They say that the student is tasked with the remaining days of the 30 day commitment...and that, the student should readily see that Day 3 should be $3,200 less $400...
This is not the only logical conclusion...
To arrive at this conclusion, the student should not have been tasked beginning with Day 3, but with Day 4...as, it could just as correctly be concluded that Day 3 should be $5,000, less $300...
Explanation? - Day 1's cost was $100 (leaving $900 for Mr. Webster's client)
Day 2's salary was double Day 1's net...and Day 2's cost was double Day 1's cost
Day 3's salary could just as logically be - double the cumulative remains from Day 1 & Day 2...being $2,500 (doubled - $5,000)...
And, Day 3's "cost" could just as logically be - $300, as there was not enough groundwork laid to conclude that the cost increased by a factor of 2, anymore than one could conclude it increased by a margin of "$100 per day".

Again - sorry for the aside.
If you see falacy in my argument - I would appreciate correction.

You say that you look at the whole and not the pieces...
I have been accused of both...
"You're not looking at the big picture."
AND
"What do you mean, you don't see any trees?"
It is still on my task list to see if I can make the Common connection in the story.
This was admittedly a time-consuming side-trail... May have to respond later tomorrow... Will see.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 




Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Actually everyone in the line paid at least a buck you were in front of me buying the Kama Sutra; Joe was at the end of the line buying The Anarchists Cookbook.


You do realize that when you type in that phrase (no, not that one, the other one lol) the dark knight secret government machine, kicks into overdrive. Your entire hardrive is probably being scanned, right now, as I’m typing this.

You gota point though about that book, seeing as I am the “Croft Identity” lol




Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I read the whole thing, Im holding It in my hands It looks and feels too much like a bible even with a ribbon as a placemark. It is a very interesting look at ancient history, anthropology, creation. Urantia Foundation,533 Diversey Parkway Chicago, IL. Here is a funny, I lived in Chicago, at the intersection of Racine, Lincoln, Diversey. They were right down the street. But as Joe said, my life experiences are full of wonder or are have been the most extreme coincidences ever. Baffling none the less.


Looks like you got the book, hot off the press lol

So how has this book affected your overall beliefs. And does this topic help to cover the questions in your OP…

Come on, you gota level with me here…can you see peoples past lives at a glance; just by getting a feel of there words presence etc…Not sure what the technical term for such a gift would be…seer perhaps…

- JC



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...I suppose I'm thinking in the broader terms of human dilema, not particulars; a problem of mine seeing the whole and not the pieces. Its my nature is all.
Let me think about it; ok because it falls within the perimeters of the film, A moral Question, not having read the book is I Thought It Was A ScreenPlay. Kind of like watching "Apocolyplse Now" and not knowing it was "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad. It is an expansion of an arguement or thought. No thing wrong with that; you must realise when watching a depiction of 'something' your understanding of it will be most different than that of your theater seat partner. For instance, watching Avatar one would sit messmerized, while another would walk out because the colors were too blue, too green, too orange and yellow.

Not unsound at all, I'm wondering about the strength of idea interpreted true, one I can say the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" Harper Lee and the Film with Gregory Peck was spot on. What exactly are we supposed to be witnessing? Ourselves acting out as Humans book form or filmwise and we still have to pay money to witness it whether its a movie ticket or a book on the shelf....

I remember when attending school... We were at the end of the course. My GPA was 4.0 (100%)...until the final exam.
The posing of one question was imprecise enough, that it made two answers "correct", with one of the two being a "little more correct" than the other. I selected the "little more correct" answer, and my answer was counted wrong. After finding that they had marked me "wrong", I argued my case...school officials (at the level I could speak with) agreed that my case was valid...but said - "Sorry - this is the answer from the organization that developed the test...and others gave the answer we prepped them for... It doesn't matter, though - You'll graduate #2 in the entire class."
Didn't matter to them - but it did to me.
.



You are overthinking. Problem with a grade? Take it to the Dean of your College if University like I did. The GPA would affect a scholarship. Contesting a B that should have been a A and involving that teacher (name calling allowed) and all the rest of the squiredom faculty that gave me the A's. Let them work it out between themselves. Did wind up getting that last year merit scholarship, still got the B dispite best intensions. You got shanked, a little more correct an answer is no excuse for explaining scholarship whys, were you taking a Mensa test because a little more correct in an answer although all 4 are correct will win out even with the best intent of outwitting the ones that devise the questions (even more fun).
edit on 4-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...You are overthinking. Problem with a grade?
...were you taking a Mensa test...

Yeah...probably...
Wait - No - It was Minnows. It was a baiting class.

As you say - I may be overthinking it.
On the other hand - my real-life (unlike this unreal life) occupation requires that I inspect every detail and nuance and dotted "t" and crossed "i" (
)...so, it's kinda engrained.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by WanDash
 





Originally posted by WanDash
And, Day 3's "cost" could just as logically be - $300, as there was not enough groundwork laid to conclude that the cost increased by a factor of 2, anymore than one could conclude it increased by a margin of "$100 per day".


Am I missing something here….

Isn’t the doubleing amount from $200 for day 2, too $400 for day 3, clearly outlined in the rest of the question below?




Originally posted by WanDash

Ask students to describe the pattern for Day 3, Day 4, and so on. Students should recognize that Daniel's salary at the beginning of Day 3 will be $3200 (since the amount he had at the end of Day 2 was $1600), and he will need to pay the Devil an amount of $400 at the end of Day 3 (since he had paid $200 on the previous day).


- JC





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