The Vast Majority Want Our Nation and Freedoms Back—What’s The Real Obstacle?

reply to post by samstone11


If finding a solution was that easy it would have been done a long time ago. The problen is there is no single solution to our issues. Not to mention, the average citizen is on such a large information/commentary overload they cannot tell what is truly their opinion, or one that has been force fed to them through our corrupt media.

Though i certainly cannot say if the following solutions will fix the problems, they are certainly a start:

#1. There needs to be a separation between news and commentary. There is a reason libraries separate fact from fiction...if they didnt people would take every published work as 100% truth. We are seeing that very issue now in the news media. The majority of time on the news networks is consumed by commentary, with very little reporting of the facts if any. People consume this commentary like its the word of god because they believe "if its on the news then it must be true".

The majority of americans are central, but the news commentary is almost exclusively extreme right wing and extreme left wing, full of mostly jabs at the other party and almost no discussion on real solutions to the problems.

Probably the single greatest thing that could be done for our citizens to have an honest look at the issues at hand would be to make an obvious separation between news and commentary.

Now im not saying pull all commentary off the networks, but at the very least put a warning at the beginning that states these are opinions, not facts.

#2. Corporate control over government policy must be diminished. Lobbyist should be made illegal, these are blatant bribes from corporate interest groups. Anonymous political funding must also be abolished. All of these super pacs and donor groups are simply means for corporations and even out of country influences to pour unmediated unlimited funding into what ever candidate best supports their personal interests. We now have no clue who or for what agenda our elections are being bought for.

We keep hearing talk of how this last election was the most expensive in u.s. history...almost like its something to be proud of! Until an average citizen with a strong education has the same shot at the presidency as these morons that bought their way into the white house we have a major problem.

If i had voted in this last election, it would have been to the candidate that took all those donations and used them to help the people struggling right now instead of flushing it away on another smear commercial touting how horrible the other guy is.

#3. Congress must be held accountable for their actions. We see a lot of the blame fall on the president, when its really these idiots causing the majority of the issues. This fingerpointing, refusal to compromise, name calling b.s. needs to stop! The american citizens dont care who wants to blame who anymore...both parties are elected and payed with our money to do a job, and when the problems arent fixed both parties are responsible. The blame game has gone on long enough, and its time for congress to stop acting like children and do the jobs they were elected to do. Technology allows for millions of business transaction every day, yet it takes congress 6 months to come to agreements to pass one single policy that 9 times out of 10 contains nothing but pork and usually never even fixes the problems they set out to address.

Congress needs to be held to the same expectations our employers expect of us. Why should they be paid the rest of their lives by tax payers dollars for serving only one term when no one can name a single policy passed in the last 40 years that has had any real benefit to the average citizen...there's simply no excuse.


Now certainly there are other issues that need addressing...insider trading, the completely self regulated scam that is our banking industry, our rapidly depleting resources, and the sham of a medical system ran completely by for profit phama corps...but until our politicians stop lining their bankbooks and man up nothing will change. And in order for that to happen our media must start calling them out on it instead of running with whatever story of the week hypes up their ratings.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Put me in power.
I'll fix things. Trust me

Everyone over 16 gets a living wage whether they work or not.
If there's aliens, no more secrets about it.
The homeless will have homes, healthcare, education and medical care, as well as everyone else.
There are too many empty houses owned by banks sitting up for sale that could be occupied by families in need.
Politics will no longer be a path to power, wealth and influence, but a position of responsibility where politicians must live in similar conditions to the worst off of their constituents. If there's hungry homeless people in their district, the politician is sleeping in a tent and missing meals until they fix it.

Super rich people don't get perks for donating to politicians but by employing the unemployed, building housing developments, planting public garden parks, sponsoring medical care, feeding, caring for, and helping those unable to care for and help themselves.
You can still get rich in private business, but, you'll be helping your local community and treating your employees like human beings while at it.

Me, for world domination; for a better happier, less stepped on and abused planet with happier, healtier, better educated people

Awesome a communist - that is not really a change from where we are headed to tell you the truth.

Who will pay for all this free stuff and who will you force to work so that all these "homeless and hungry" are taken care of. Whose property will you confiscate at gunpoint to give to "the poor". Hopefully not mine. I have more than one house and more land/money than I can spend or use.

This is what people have realized at this point. 52 percent of America has decided, "hey, why work when I can get free stuff from those who do". Paid for by Barrack Obama.

We live in the most peaceful and prosperous time in human history. You can live your life without being bothered and make a good life for you and your famlily. And you want people to stand up and demand some fantastical idea of freedom or a nation that never existted? Not blood likely.

Originally posted by Druscilla

No more bullies, well, except for me when people don't play nice .....

Global domination? I'll pass thank you.

We've been living with this political attitude for over a century with the exception being it's not people-behaving-badly that get targeted. The people being targeted have resources or strategic global position that fedgov wants to own or control.

Our natural geographic barriers have so-far kept us free from foreign attack. The world is shrinking tho and that may not always be true in the future ......

Originally posted by mutatismutandis
reply to post by samstone11

 

Though i certainly cannot say if the following solutions will fix the problems, they are certainly a start:

#1. There needs to be a separation between news and commentary.

#2. Corporate control over government policy must be diminished. Lobbyist should be made illegal

#3. Congress. This fingerpointing, refusal to compromise, name calling b.s. needs to stop!.

1 No, free speech is vital. Someone trying to separate what was true and what was opinion would destroy this.

2. No, free speech is vital. Lobbying gives us some slight protection from the tyranny of the majority. As the 47 percenters grow more numerous, we are already risking a totalitarian state.

3.no, uncompromising outspoken congressmen are exactly what we need (Ron Paul?)

reply to post by supermouse


1 No, free speech is vital. Someone trying to separate what was true and what was opinion would destroy this.

I agree with the importance of free speech. That's why I listen and read non-corporate controlled media.

2. No, free speech is vital. Lobbying gives us some slight protection from the tyranny of the majority. As the 47 percenters grow more numerous, we are already risking a totalitarian state.

Lobbying protects us from the tyranny of the majority? I spent 6 years in the Navy during the Vietnam War, worked and paid taxes all my life but according to your perspective I am one of the lazy 47%s who doesn't work.

3.no, uncompromising outspoken congressmen are exactly what we need (Ron Paul?)

We wouldn't need our savior lobbyists if our elected officials did their job and represented their constituents with honesty and hard work.

Capitalism is the problem

Originally posted by Druscilla

Put me in power.
I'll fix things. Trust me

Everyone over 16 gets a living wage whether they work or not.
If there's aliens, no more secrets about it.
The homeless will have homes, healthcare, education and medical care, as well as everyone else.
There are too many empty houses owned by banks sitting up for sale that could be occupied by families in need.
Politics will no longer be a path to power, wealth and influence, but a position of responsibility where politicians must live in similar conditions to the worst off of their constituents. If there's hungry homeless people in their district, the politician is sleeping in a tent and missing meals until they fix it.

Super rich people don't get perks for donating to politicians but by employing the unemployed, building housing developments, planting public garden parks, sponsoring medical care, feeding, caring for, and helping those unable to care for and help themselves.
You can still get rich in private business, but, you'll be helping your local community and treating your employees like human beings while at it.

Me, for world domination; for a better happier, less stepped on and abused planet with happier, healtier, better educated people

Liberal mentality at its best...
So you want to give everyone a paycheck huh? Where will the money come from?
Homes, healthcare, education, medical... again... where does the money come from for this?
I think its a very novel idea if money grows on trees.
Actually I fear being too serious because I am not sure if your whole post was meant to be sarcastic or not... hopefully communism and socialism isn't your thing, even if that is what you were going for...
have any idea at all how the housing bubble started? Housing lenders gave mortgages to people that couldn't afford them... how is the government supposed to be involved with this when it is a free market transaction? Whose fault is that? It sure as hell isn't the governments fault! Shouldn't the housing market be allowed to fail? An important part of their restructuring would be to sell off those houses, not give them to you for free.
The super rich shouldn't get perks for doing ANY of those things. Government should not be involved in the free market. They probably WOULD do those things if there were a public need for them, and if they weren't busy staying afloat themselves in a really bad economy.
And how do you expect to dominate the world? Liberals will never understand that in order for someone to get a better ride in life, someone else has to either pay for it or work for it.

reply to post by samstone11


I think the real issue is that not a lot of people have any real sense of conscience anymore, or even a "minimal" intellect. What I mean is that the schools have been basically programming people for so long, and leading people from a basic morality, that we now have a couple of generations that really cannot think for themselves, or understand right from wrong. The end result is easily controlled masses. Of course, there are people that realize we have a problem, but there might not be enough to do anything about it. Not easily, in any case.

The solution? Real education, teaching the kids to THINK, would be a good start.

reply to post by samstone11


I believe to truly reform our nation, we would need a revolution...a full blown revolution! I don't think simply calling out representatives and telling them that there is a problem with the way our nation is ran would do the trick. We all know our govt is corrupt...if you don't, wake up, that is no longer a debate. If the people's candidate would've made it to the white house it would not have been who is there now. There is a small number of real american heroes who tried to get our nation back on track...Ron Paul for example ran for president over 20 years ago, with the exact same message he had this election, figure out what is going on with the Federal Reserve and get us out of our crazy debt situation...this was before we hit a trillion in debt...heck I think it was before we hit 100 billion, but I'm not positive, anyway, he was thrawted by the media and TPTB

The problem with these representatives, is they are fighting a one sided battle, how can they get into power where it matters when the odds are stacked against them, for Ron Paul to make it, there would've had to have been a demand for his presence in all debates, he would have needed media coverage, and he would've needed contributions from parties that would not have wanted a "for the people" representatives.

So that leaves us with revolution, if our govt is not working for us, then we need to revolt and come up with a plan that gets us back on the right track. The hardest part is getting that initial voice that is necessary to rally the nation. We need to wake up and make the change, though it would be so radical, that no one is willing to come up with the plan, or be that voice.

I had an epiphany while I was contemplating the failure of our society. It has to do with why large corporations are able to succeed where our nation has failed. What I realized was, every corporation emphasizes the importance of team work. These corporate leaders knew it took everyone to make a few successful. Our society does not emphasize team work, capitalism is about you working for you. It actually blew me away when I realized this, if we as a society could come up with what is best for us as a species, there is no doubt that we can achieve it. We can be free from our dependency on fossil fuels in an extremely short time, if we did not have huge corporations lobbying for their agendas to satuate their greed, and buying up patents to competitive inventions that could be a game changer in fuel consumption...if you don't think this is happening you're naive.

We're on the crusp of revolution, occupy wall st is a glaring example of this, if occupy had a leader with a plan and a voice that got heard, we could have very well been in the middle of a civil war.

This is my opinion on why nothing has changed yet, it needs to be big, and no one is willing to role their sleeves up and start it, but I think we're getting closer.

The way I see it, we need UNITY! We need to come together as one voice. If we could, for one moment, forget our differences and agree on one thing, that the way we are being governed is not right, we are powerful united! There is a way to show our unity out there right now and I have pointed to it several times it seems, to no avail! ONE PEOPLE, ONE VOICE! If you can not, or will not step up, then get out of the way!

reply to post by samstone11


American's don't have the stomach for it, for restoring the Republic. It would require the mass deportation of all the legal and illegal immigrants who where allowed into America against the citizenries wishes by the people who wished to destroy America since the 1960's. It is what the British did to the Boer Republics after they conquered them(most blacks in South Africa are of Northern African decent).

And do we have the stomach for throwing homosexuals into prisons, and atheists out of our communities? It is a people who make a nation great, as much as it is alcohol that makes a liquor great. Dilute it with something other than itself and it will cease to be great. This has been a slow and gradual process. First with the Irish immigrants(the first wave of coward immigrants, immigrants who clung to the cities instead of establishing communities and helping to settle America), then the Italian and Greek immigrants.

Those who plotted to turn America into a "Universal Nation" and a communist nation, have spent well over a century at the task. America is terminally infected and nothing can be done at this point. Too much multi-generational damage has been done.

"they" are pussies - that's the real obstacle.

When I see them rioting in the streets or even marching or even supporting people who march for them then I might have a different opinion.

talk is cheap, nation

reply to post by korathin


Well, good thing your ancesters obviously mated within their genepool... or family. I'm sure there are no exceptions to your ideology concerning cowardly Irish, sex crazed Serbians, impolite Greeks, flatulent Quakers, greedy Burmese-or Myamarians... or whatever it's called now, etc.

And if the purity and quality of the great United States was compromised by lovey-dovey-groovey-long-haired-do-gooders thinking in'lectual secular humanististican thoughts in the 1960's then who let the cowardly Irish in more than a hundred years before then? And why all the inferior races and creeds before and after and during this golden-white age? And who doesn't have the stomach for locking up, deporting or executing all those you don't approve of?

The questions befuddle even more than the premise...

Originally posted by svmpua
reply to post by samstone11

 

Jihad and Sharia is the real trouble to your freedom.

Religion of peace

Really? I mean, is that how you really feel towards the subject at hand? I have a hard time believing that you come to ATS and say things like that.

Sharia Law and Jihad. I honestly hope you were joking and I'm taking you too seriously. If so, my apologies. If not, seriously, just leave or make another screen name. Come to ATS to add something of substance PLEASE.

Lima-1, out.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm shying away from topics like this since the election because it's fair to say we don't all see the nation out of control. Just a hair over half the nation chose to maintain the recent norm and extend it in all but the House for another few years at least.....so it's hard to necessarily agree on the starting point, IMO.

Having said that, I think we are losing everything we've had and world wide, losing strong economies and nations for the same reasons. There was a movement and a very deep and powerful one started in 1913 and that general time frame. It wasn't isolated to the United States.....and I'd suggest the U.S. wasn't even the primary focus. Even then.

In my view, 1918 saw the start of the experiment in Russia and 1944/45 saw the start of it for China. One has utterly failed....the other is morphing to survive and may yet work. Hard to say with the Chinese. Maybe they can. Anyway.... It's clear the U.S. will be put to the same experiment whether we like it, want it or not. So...I suppose, we may as well accept and start planning how we all get through it.

I'd love the whole concept of resisting something....but when you can't even get a few Americans to agree on what the problem is? Realism steps in to say resistance may not be futile, but it sure isn't likely to form up either. Not while I'd be young enough for it to still matter, anyway.

Wrabbit. Your pragmatism here is very refreshing. I have just been perusing another post on all the quotes of the elites about the new world order. All those freeking quotes from all over the world by all of these guys who have risen to positions of power enough where they think that it is their responsibility to "make a better world" for all the rest of us.

As you point out above, this tendency is not new. We people who count ourselves cognizant of deeper trends in human affairs run around hollering and pointing, there, there, here, here, yet we seem to be pointing all over the place and seem unable to point with any real focus on just exactly who they are, but more, unable to mount any real physical offence or truly logical counter theoretical action plans against them.

Those world shakers come in all sizes and shapes. They follow many conceptual dramas. There are those who, because they are in elite positions, think it is their right to make things over however they wish, to their own benefit.
But their are also those of different moral stances who, because of their elite positions, believe it to be their responsibility to the rest of us, the rest of the human race, to guide and direct us into a world that will be better for all of us. Two opposing motives. And even I, have so little ability to distinguish between who is who.

I think that our world has been growing towards larger and larger forms of organizational structures for thousands of years, ( as you say above, this is nothing new). It is coming, if my reading of history is not even a little wrong. Our focus, as you, I believe rightly point out, would be better spent finding a productive way to get along in it.

Originally posted by Allenb83

Liberal mentality at its best...
So you want to give everyone a paycheck huh? Where will the money come from?
Homes, healthcare, education, medical... again... where does the money come from for this?
I think its a very novel idea if money grows on trees.
Actually I fear being too serious because I am not sure if your whole post was meant to be sarcastic or not... hopefully communism and socialism isn't your thing, even if that is what you were going for...
have any idea at all how the housing bubble started? Housing lenders gave mortgages to people that couldn't afford them... how is the government supposed to be involved with this when it is a free market transaction? Whose fault is that? It sure as hell isn't the governments fault! Shouldn't the housing market be allowed to fail? An important part of their restructuring would be to sell off those houses, not give them to you for free.
The super rich shouldn't get perks for doing ANY of those things. Government should not be involved in the free market. They probably WOULD do those things if there were a public need for them, and if they weren't busy staying afloat themselves in a really bad economy.
And how do you expect to dominate the world? Liberals will never understand that in order for someone to get a better ride in life, someone else has to either pay for it or work for it.

Something you neglect to address is that MONEY is an imaginary made-up thing.
It's an artifact of a philosophy tied to exchange of goods and services.
The world can exist without 'money'.

We can just as effectively trade the exchange of money for labor, goods and services for anything else of actual real value.
Units of Time, for instance could be used as a basis for exchange.
A hamburger could cost you 15 minutes; 15 minutes worth of your time doing something, somewhere of value for someone; tending a cross walk for school children, something.
Time wouldn't necessarily need be a basis of exchange. There are many other values of exchange that can be attached to other real-world goods and services that don't require money.

The existence of money creates poverty.

reply to post by svmpua


I'm never again endorsing a party or politician. I will only endorse ideas. If politicians want our votes let their words and deeds echo ours.

You won't see any change happening until people first change their attitudes. Judging by my US friend status on facebook, something drastic will have to happen before anyone changes any attitude or behavior.

Next, there is no universal answer. Each region has its own unique set of circumstances to deal with. Pluralism is a way to go, but that means having communities working together, and more often than not that means a strong family system as well, where the community is an extension of the family, and communal parenting can occur.

As of now I would say, as others have, the obstacle is not being organized and focused with a clear mission.

The current obstacles to wake people up, imo, are: television, gadgets, video games, movies, sports...

Take away electricity for a week (at least), and see how things could change.

There are numerous obstacles in the way of restoring America to its "ideal" way of life. Unfortunately, it is this very ideal that is at the root of America's problems. It is the inability of Americans to think through the consequences of living that ideal that insures that no matter what happens in American politics, Americans will always be on the road to destruction.

The American ideal way of life can function in an environment of plentiful resources and opportunities for exploitation of those resources. When resources and opportunity become more scarce, American society, by its very nature, in following its inherent proclivities, begins to cannibalize itself, economically.

Such is the hold that the American ideal has on the American people, that any consideration of an alternate modality, any mention of an alternate way of doing things, is greeted with near hysterical outrage, the sort of outrage that would arise in a small Hindu village in India, if one were to open a butcher shop.

The American ideal has become a sacred cow. We are in the intellectual world of religion when we talk about the American ideal. Rationality has been set aside.

It is very difficult to solve problems in a complex industrial state if you set aside rationality.

The only way that America can continue to adhere to its ideal way of life, the ideal involving continued growth of the economy while maintaining the economic ascendancy of the economic elite in the country, is to is to go to war, which it is doing. But even this, and even if pursued successfully, would eventually lead to a situation where the American/World economy begins to cannibalize itself.

World conquest merely postpones the endgame of Americanism.

The American ideal is Social Darwinism, the ascendancy of the fittest, winner-take-all-ism.

When America embraces the idea of loser entitlement, life will become reasonable in America, as it has in Germany, the UK, Scandinavia, Australia, Canada, France, etc., none of whom would give the American "ideal" a second glance.

The American ideal, like that played out jade, communism, just doesn't work.