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dhs raided my store

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posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


One may never get checked and caught...
But then again, one may...

It's all a gamble.


I never had much to worry about. The stuff I sold came from dumpsters and curbside recycle. The biggest blockers were the IRS (without a resale number, you don't get in to sell), thieves, rain, other events the same weekend like an airshow or fair, off payday weekends, a flat tire.

People who don't work flea markets don't understand how much work is involved. Once in a while, it all comes together and you make a few hundred by noon on a Sunday.

Once in a while...

People going to pull out the rule book and see if all the technicalities are in place just don't understand. Operating a motor vehicle means paying for maintenance, smog, registration, gas and coffee. Then you got storage rent and swap meet entrance fee. By the time you load up, get out there, set up, price things and make enough to call it quits, you are bone tired. Then you gotta pack it all up and take it back to storage, unload and pay rent on it till next time. The labor is intense and costs are rising. There is no easy day.

I wonder what goes thru peoples minds to wake up and decide to harass sellers at a flea market because "Its The Law".




posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by snarky412
 


One may never get checked and caught...
But then again, one may...

It's all a gamble.


I never had much to worry about. The stuff I sold came from dumpsters and curbside recycle. The biggest blockers were the IRS (without a resale number, you don't get in to sell), thieves, rain, other events the same weekend like an airshow or fair, off payday weekends, a flat tire.

People who don't work flea markets don't understand how much work is involved. Once in a while, it all comes together and you make a few hundred by noon on a Sunday.

Once in a while...

People going to pull out the rule book and see if all the technicalities are in place just don't understand. Operating a motor vehicle means paying for maintenance, smog, registration, gas and coffee. Then you got storage rent and swap meet entrance fee. By the time you load up, get out there, set up, price things and make enough to call it quits, you are bone tired. Then you gotta pack it all up and take it back to storage, unload and pay rent on it till next time. The labor is intense and costs are rising. There is no easy day.

I wonder what goes thru peoples minds to wake up and decide to harass sellers at a flea market because "Its The Law".

well said man

and the shoppers that shop flea markets go there looking for cheap stuff

i just dont understand how these big stores get away with the same thing and they focus all there energy on flea markets swap meets and street vendors



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by goou111
 


Honestly, we're way more than well-covered against terrorism, so while I don't think 10 agents was necessary, I'm glad they are enforcing this. I'm not happy for your loss, personally, but this is one of those laws that I support on moral grounds. You're looking to make a living robbing from the US and giving to China. Sure, you're robbing from US corporations, not a small business owner or anything, but still, those companies employ people, that jersey money, ultimately is money spent here. The cash you're shipping off to China for what they've stolen from the US, is just going right to China.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by dogstar23
reply to post by goou111
 


Honestly, we're way more than well-covered against terrorism, so while I don't think 10 agents was necessary, I'm glad they are enforcing this. I'm not happy for your loss, personally, but this is one of those laws that I support on moral grounds. You're looking to make a living robbing from the US and giving to China. Sure, you're robbing from US corporations, not a small business owner or anything, but still, those companies employ people, that jersey money, ultimately is money spent here. The cash you're shipping off to China for what they've stolen from the US, is just going right to China.


your right accept there employing all the people in china

and the big corporations are giving all there $$ to china and not back in our economy where they could get them made and really create some damm jobs ... for americans
edit on 9-12-2012 by goou111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by dogstar23
 


how can you defend this law? when the first thing these corporations do when they get big is start having all there s--- made over seas.. wich kills our economy when all that money could stay in america



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by goou111
 


They had reasonable cause to suspect it was counterfeit...do you have the option of getting those items back without fighting the charges on the jerseys?


The most disturbing issue is that this raid was conducted by the Department of Homeland Security. Why not let the local authorities take care of it? DHS should be protecting the homeland, ya know like the wide open borders, scanning for hints of terrorism, and maybe going after the big bad guys that the FBI has on the big list, that kind of thing. Not spending big tax dollars in a crusade to enforce copyright laws. This is awfully close to chasing down mattress label mutilators.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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if theres any trademark lawyers on the site that could answer a couple questions for me

please pm me i would greatly appreciate it



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by goou111
reply to post by dogstar23
 


how can you defend this law? when the first thing these corporations do when they get big is start having all there s--- made over seas.. wich kills our economy when all that money could stay in america


I mean, you're right from that standpoint, but it's not exactly "fighting the good fight", its more like "two wrongs make a right." i'm not a fan of the Nikes, Reeboks, Wal-marts, whatever. I guess what's at the core of my thinking here is that there is no real justification - at least in complaining about it. If my custom computers carried a brand name and someone started selling swill like Dell, or Apple with my brand on it, I'd be pissed. Nobody deserves to piggyback on the name I've created for myself selling their product. Is it "more justified" that your competition is an "evil corporation?" sure, in my eyes it is, and if there was a moral calculator, I'm sure it would agree as well, but you still can't really stand on a moral high-ground and complain about enforcement of a legitimate law.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by goou111
 


You were sort of stealing from the sports leagues/teams/brand of jerseys....

I mean I really don't blame you, it's not a huge crime. But you're not getting locked up, right? The teams that own the rights to these designs should protect their product.


How do you protect your product when there are people like the poster of this thread making and selling fakes? I think the whole point is they should not be making fakes. These brands have a lot to lose with these fakes on the market, first in lost sales and also the threat to the brand quality when cheap knock-offs are believed to be real.

I'm not a big supporter of government authority at all, but in this case I think DHS was totally justified.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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well that is a load of BS.

Why is a defense agency acting out like tax collectors.

I hate intellectual property rights BS. The last thing they care about is the author/ artist. It is all BS to scam people for their money and perv into their lives.

I used to consider the moral implications of theft of Intellectual property, then I saw in recent years how they actually behave and what they are really doing. If you support this you are part of the problem. Now, I will pirate EVERYTHING out of spite. F them.

edit on 10-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by goou111
 

I presume the reason Homeland Security took the items is because after drug trafficking counterfeit goods are the most popular way for terrorists and criminal gangs to raise money. Counterfeit goods are seen as an easy way to make or launder money because if you get caught with a warehouse full of fake goods worth $1 million you will get the goods confiscated and a fine, if you get caught with the same amount of drugs you are going to prison for a long time. The subject is well researched: michiganjb.org... michiganjb.org...

A lot of fake goods are made in China and are unbelievably dangerous because they do no testing (anyone remember the fake milk that killed hundreds of babies in China ?) they are nearly always sub standard and believe me you never want to see the pictures of a child with 60% burns because her parents bought her a fake Disney sweatshirt that melted to her body because it did not meet safety standards. There are cases every year of children dying because the ties and toggles come off fake clothing and they are choked or strangled. What would you say to the parents of a child who get burnt or worse because the jersey you sold them was not flame resistant and melted onto their skin, is is worth risking someones health because you want to make some money without paying the taxes and duties that legal sellers have to pay ? If you don't care that is fine you are the one who has to make that choice but you are going to find it is not only the Property Rights owners that don't like it but honest sellers that sell genuine goods.

A lot of sports goods are over priced but that is as much the fault of the person buying them as it is the big Companies that sell them, if people said "no way are we paying $150 for a jersey" they would reduce the price but people don't they simply pay.

The links between funding terrorism and Counterfeiting are well established and not just in the US but globally. Because most people (like most people on here) think that by buying fake goods you are not hurting anyone they buy them without thinking, maybe if they thought that if I buy that fake handbag/jersey/cd I will be giving $10 to the Taliban so they can raise money to buy another IED to kill or maim a UK or US solider you might think twice.

I don't think my need for a cheap sports jersey or fake designer handbag is worth taking the risk that my money may go to a terrorist or criminal gang, if you want to take that chance that is your choice but the next time you see a serviceman man come back in a coffin you should know that it could have been you $ that helped kill them.

No doubt every one will come on here and reply "that is stupid, it is far fetched, you are scaremongering, total ****, you don't know what you are talking about or you should not believe everything the Government tells you" but my partner was one of the people whose job it was to find and prosecute Counterfeiters and I have seen the pictures of children burnt by highly flammable fake clothing, I have seen the Coroners reports and pictures of dead babies because of poorly designed and unsafe fakes and I have seen the money trail back to Hamas, Hizbullah and Al-Qaeda and many more.

What you are doing is NOT a victimless crime and it is time you faced up to that and stop complaining because you got caught.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by goou111
Hi all

I have a store at a flea market in the middle of the hood where I sell sports apparel and really anything else
i can find cheap..

Well i started ordering jerseys from china and sellin them. and we did this for a while along with selling all our other stuff to. I have a slight shopping addiction lol so over the years ive aquired alot of stuff

So we never told anyone these jerseys were real, even had a sign hangin up stating it and we were sellin em for
35$ so thats a dead giveaway lol

Well a little while back a customer who had bought a couple jerseys from me came back in and flashed me a badge saying "homeland security intelluctual properties division and im shuttin down your store" i said f--- why
he said all the counterfeit jerseys

so the next thing i knew there were 10 federal agents in my store going through every box i had.. they took all my jerseys accept the soccer ones i had wich i told them were knockoffs

they also took a bunch of t-shirts and hats that i bought at places like tj maxx and marshalls on clearance
saying they were fake.. i dont understand how they can leave the soccer that i told them was fake but take stuff i know was real.. and they took my till for the day ..

Now after they finished wreckin my store and takin all my info they had to come to my house and make sure i didnt have a bunch of jerseys or other fake stuff at my house.. so now i have dhs in my home.. not cool

So i did not get arrested or charged just half my store confiscated.. but a couple weeks later i get a letter from us customs and border patrol listing all the stuff they took and the appraised value of it all

in the letter there were 3 options #1 i could fight it and say that they were real and try and get em back in court
#2 i could pay the appraised value (of a ridiculous 250$ a jersey) and get em back that way..
so they will sell them back to me lol but then i still cant sell em cause there knockoffs

#3 choose to do nothing and they will start forfieture proceedings

then at the bottom it says if you choose option #1or 2 then your case will be forwarded to the federal prosecuters office for full review

Just thought atsers would like to see how dhs is protecting us.. 10 federal agents in my store for over an hour over shirts...i really think they have better things to do

but dont you feel safer knowing the chinese shirts are being taken off the streets??
edit on 8-12-2012 by goou111 because: (no reason given)


they jerseys are the 250 dollar ones replicatex maybe thats why the value.
Noone likes soccer jk were they american or foreign jerseys.
research what option 3 means before you allow it possibly talk to a lawyer.
dont selll bootleg goods,

vaedur



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:41 AM
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Clothes arent flame retardant unless specifically sold as such, they run about 50 bucks for a shirt. Required at oil refineries.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Expat888
pfffth.. tell dhs get stuffed since when does counterfiet goods have anything to do with homeland security ? you were honest and had sign letting people know they were knockoffs.. sounds more like corrupt officials trying to make extra pocket money before the holidays...


the Department of Homeland Security most certainly has jurisdiction over this, as the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) division is part of DHS.. And it was.. and is, against the law to sell unlicensed merchandise.. plain and simple.. he broke the law, got off without jail, consider it lesson learned.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by snarky412
reply to post by goou111
 


If they didn't have the copyright logo, they're bootlegged.
As a retailer, bootlegged products can get your butt in some serious trouble.





Most of the fake stuff even has the copyright logo now days.
So they want to tax you like it was genuine stuff, but then keep it and prosecute you? Get a lawyer.
And someone here said he was telling people it was fake stuff? I dont think he said that. He said that for what he charged it should have been obvious. He told DHS the soccer stuff was fake. But, anyone at one of these flea markets knows its fake stuff.

We have of these flea markets in here in St. Louis, HUGE place to buy fake goods, bootlegged movies and music, fake brand name stuff. Everyone knows its fake. Heres whats interesting, the Pagedale Police dept. were the ones working the door and collecting the entry fee. And as you walked in there was a sign that said "the selling of ANY counterfeit or bootlegged items is illegal". Btw, I said the police WERE working the door because it was recently raided, big time. They shut down pretty much everyone. It was feds that shut it down, not local police. So now its just a giant empty building.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
reply to post by goou111
 


You stated that the person can buy the fake from China Legally. However, that isn't entirely true, it may be legal to buy it in China, but it's not legal to bring counterfeited goods into the USA.

I would simply ask you this: If it were your company or product, how would you react when you found out that your were losing money because someone was selling knock offs of your product and not paying you a single cent for it?
What if the losses due to counterfeits caused you to have to lay off employees who really needed the job to support their family?

If that doesn't bother you, then my argument doesn't work for you.
edit on 9-12-2012 by AutomaticSlim because: typo


i would want them to stop the product at customs. and thats what i would pay them to do. i would not pay them to go to flea markets and screw with an average american just tryin to make an honest buck

they could stop it at customs and put and end to it all that easy but they dont... why?



Do you have any idea how many people it would take to open and check every box at customs? Think about it, ebay alone would take an army. Then you have Amazon and all the orders from websites. It would take an army to do this. Plus then you will need people that can check to see it its genuine or not and some of this fake stuff is dead on cause its made in the same factory as the real. Then you need to have people that will either asign a value so it can be taxed or confiscate it. The logistics of opening and checking every box from china are just staggering.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by majel42
 


what if the shirt melted on his skin??

are you kidding lmao
edit on 10-12-2012 by goou111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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sounds like you got scammed by your Chinese wholesaler. The Chinese are notorious for selling knockoffs.

If you have proof from your wholesaler identifying them as authentic, I would take that and fight it.

Sorry dude, but NFL is wholley an American franchise. Why would you trust a country halfway around the world to sell authentic American products?



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by coop039

Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
reply to post by goou111
 


You stated that the person can buy the fake from China Legally. However, that isn't entirely true, it may be legal to buy it in China, but it's not legal to bring counterfeited goods into the USA.

I would simply ask you this: If it were your company or product, how would you react when you found out that your were losing money because someone was selling knock offs of your product and not paying you a single cent for it?
What if the losses due to counterfeits caused you to have to lay off employees who really needed the job to support their family?

If that doesn't bother you, then my argument doesn't work for you.
edit on 9-12-2012 by AutomaticSlim because: typo


i would want them to stop the product at customs. and thats what i would pay them to do. i would not pay them to go to flea markets and screw with an average american just tryin to make an honest buck

they could stop it at customs and put and end to it all that easy but they dont... why?



Do you have any idea how many people it would take to open and check every box at customs? Think about it, ebay alone would take an army. Then you have Amazon and all the orders from websites. It would take an army to do this. Plus then you will need people that can check to see it its genuine or not and some of this fake stuff is dead on cause its made in the same factory as the real. Then you need to have people that will either asign a value so it can be taxed or confiscate it. The logistics of opening and checking every box from china are just staggering.


again they have shut it down at customs... if they can do it for a couple weeks during the superbowl
they can do it longer

and if they did it for say a year no one would buy the fakes cause they would get tired of losing there products



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
sounds like you got scammed by your Chinese wholesaler. The Chinese are notorious for selling knockoffs.

If you have proof from your wholesaler identifying them as authentic, I would take that and fight it.

Sorry dude, but NFL is wholley an American franchise. Why would you trust a country halfway around the world to sell authentic American products?


well i never thought they were authentic and never told my customers that

even had a sign saying these jerseys are not real we order from china





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