dhs raided my store

reply to post by goou111

Well then you're all under arrest.

Originally posted by goou111
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

 

ty man
if your interested i can give you a good site that will get you your jerseys or shoes or whatever
and you wont get ripped off

and its legal to buy em

The customers are not at fault when they buy a product nor will they get in trouble.

It's the retail sellers that are held responsible for the products that they sell to the public.

There is a difference......

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
Firstly, I was surprised to hear the DHS and ICE have the jurisdiction to do this anti-counterfeit stuff.
Secondly, if you were in fact breaking the law by selling counterfeit items, then you can't complain about being caught.
Thirdly, I guess those people who have posted here about buying things cheaply from China and reselling them at markets for a better profit margin must be fans of Walmart and stores like that, because you are doing the same thing as Walmart does.
Fourthly, why does anyone NEED a sports jersey (if you are on the team, they will give you one)? And if you don't need the jersey, then you just WANT one. So, buy a legit one, not some knockoff, because you are contributing to the crime of counterfeiting.
Fifthly, if you think the legit product is too expensive, then don't buy it. If enough people stop buying this stuff, the price will come down (law of supply and demand.)

Sports franchises are businesses not governmental agencies which exist for the public benefit alone, so why do you think you deserve their product for next to nothing? Again, don't buy it, why support those greedy businesses by PAYING them so you can advertise their business on your hat, back, chest, etc. These sports franchises could give a crap about you; only if you are a paying customer do you matter to them.

Think sports professionals are overpaid primadonas? Then don't watch them, don't help pay their inflated salaries, don't contribute to the whole system/problem which has lead to the OP getting their allegedly illegal products confiscated.

If you think the goverment is wasting time with busting the small timers who sell counterfeits, then you must also think they are wasting their time busting individual illegal immigrants too. If you really think that the government is wasting their time enforcing certain laws, then start lobbying for change of the laws, and get others on board who support your position.

Our politicians love to tout the phrase, "We are a nation of laws." Who makes the laws? Seek out the law makers if you want real change.

[sarcasm]
If the law is unjust, then take the example from Dr. M.L. King and do some sit-ins at the flea market to peacefully protest against the unjust anti-counterfeiting laws, which only serve to keep the big greedy corporations so wealthy, because they are gouging the consumer by selling their jerseys, hats, etc at inflated prices. This price gouging causes the consumer such distress because we really need these jerseys, hats and such in order to live. A regular non-branded shirt, jersey, or hat just won't do! I need a team name and logo on it, because it's critical for my survival! I just love my team and I will die if I can't get their jersey for a cheaper price! So, let me have fakes for cheap, or force those corporations to lower their prices so I don't have to suffer needlessly...
[/sarcasm]

Do I believe there are unjust laws? Yes, I do, but if I break those unjust laws and get punished, I wouldn't be surprised. If enough people draw attention to unjust laws, then things can change. Anti-counterfeit laws don't fall into my definition of an unjust law.

they are unjust heres why,, no one that buys a 35$ knockoff is gonna pay 200 or more for a reral one

and no one that buys real ones for 200 or more is lookin to buy fakes
its the same with the purses there 1000s of $ for real ones and 40 buks at the flea market

so the damm customer knows what hes buyin and can easily buy them from china LEGALLY

so we allow the chinese to make the $$ and screw the americans.. yeah thats just

reply to post by snarky412

It's the retail sellers that are held responsible for the products that they sell to the public.

But the flea market can't really be considered a "retail outlet" can it? I know that technically yes there are rules and they are broken, but on what level?

Swap meets and flea markets are the fringe of "retail". There are no store fronts, just a stall or parking lot. Its one day only cash and carry for the less ambitious and successful in life. They have no grand design to make a ton of money by infringing on the mega millions retail world. They should be overlooked as far as "technicalities".

And yet they are focused upon precisely because they are vulnerable. They can ill afford to fight any thing in court. So its a win win for the "justice" system. The cops get a "bag" and the courts get a cheap conviction.

Big damn kudos to them.

Originally posted by phroziac
I love how people defend the DHS here. Uhm, this isn't their job. They need a search warrant to do what they did. The OP's GOD GIVEN INALIENABLE RIGHTS were VIOLATED.

Uh no....

His rights were not violated.

He unfortunately was caught selling illegal shirts that were not bought from a legit wholesaler.
In reality he was in the wrong, as harsh as that sounds.
In fact, he's lucky he wasn't arrested.

He sounds like so many others that we've run across over the years that don't have a clue about this particular problem.

It always has been and always will be against the law to sell bootlegged products to the public.

I've been in this business for over 25 years and we ourselves have been checked a few times but we don't think a $20 shirt/sunglasses is worth the risk of losing every thing.
We don't need the money that bad.

We work to damn hard for what we have and respect the law, even if we ourselves think it's bogus.
It is what it is......

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
reply to post by goou111

 

Just wanted to post and say that i hope all is going well and that they will be leaving you alone in the future.

Would love to have known of your footy jerseys before the raid, though. Nearly impossible to find Chelsea gear in the states. :-D Can't even find a decent dc united jersey here in the south lol.

My question is, how the hell is the appraisal price that high?! Are they appraising them as signed Rose jerseys lol?

Ah, the government will always find a way to shaft the little guys. I fully support the knock-off market. If Adidas wouldn't charge $90 for a jersey that cost them $1.25 to manufacture in, hang on, lemme grab my Chicago Fire jersey... Oh yeah, China!, then I wouldn't shop at discount outlets or buy knockoffs. I only have a few authentic jerseys, mainly from games I have attended.

.

one time i had there invoice in one of my boxes sayin there cost was 2$ per jersey and there chargin 20-22

imagin what nike is making these for and sellin em 250$.. and we protect em because they have a swoosh

reply to post by snarky412


no ones addressing the fact that the big boys are all doin it

side note .. damm they took down my avatar

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by snarky412

 

It's the retail sellers that are held responsible for the products that they sell to the public.

But the flea market can't really be considered a "retail outlet" can it? I know that technically yes there are rules and they are broken, but on what level?

Swap meets and flea markets are the fringe of "retail". There are no store fronts, just a stall or parking lot. Its one day only cash and carry for the less ambitious and successful in life. They have no grand design to make a ton of money by infringing on the mega millions retail world. They should be overlooked as far as "technicalities".

And yet they are focused upon precisely because they are vulnerable. They can ill afford to fight any thing in court. So its a win win for the "justice" system. The cops get a "bag" and the courts get a cheap conviction.

Big damn kudos to them.

Okay.....

If you are set up at the flea market selling a product, regardless of what it may be, YOU are the retail seller.

Not the flea market.

The flea market sells you a space to set up your stuff to sell.
But you are responsible for the stuff you sell.
Once again, YOU are a retail seller, not the flea market.

It doesn't matter where you sell the stuff.
At a flea market, a festival, fair, rodeo, car show, mall, side of the road, concert, if you sell stuff, you are considered "straight sales" A.K.A. "retail"....

Hence, you are the only one responsible for the products that you sell to the public.
Like making sure the t-shirts/sunglasses/cd etc. that you sell to the public is a licensed product.

I will have to admit, it is awful tempting to buy the cheap stuff.
But is it worth it in the long run???

One may never get checked and caught...
But then again, one may...

It's all a gamble.

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by phroziac
I love how people defend the DHS here. Uhm, this isn't their job. They need a search warrant to do what they did. The OP's GOD GIVEN INALIENABLE RIGHTS were VIOLATED.

Uh no....

His rights were not violated.

He unfortunately was caught selling illegal shirts that were not bought from a legit wholesaler.
In reality he was in the wrong, as harsh as that sounds.
In fact, he's lucky he wasn't arrested.

He sounds like so many others that we've run across over the years that don't have a clue about this particular problem.

It always has been and always will be against the law to sell bootlegged products to the public.

I've been in this business for over 25 years and we ourselves have been checked a few times but we don't think a $20 shirt/sunglasses is worth the risk of losing every thing.
We don't need the money that bad.

We work to damn hard for what we have and respect the law, even if we ourselves think it's bogus.
It is what it is......

well i do have a clue.. ive been in the game a long time and always knew eventually i would get shut down

but the fact is law enforcment only cares about it when the big corporations pay them to

other times they buy em from you... cause everyone is trying to save$$

reply to post by goou111


I'll even go one step further...

Did you know that Airbrush Artists are not allowed to airbrush licensed designs on t-shirts/car tags/caps etc. and sell them to the public for a profit???
Many do, of course.

In other words, no Tweety/Taz/Micky Mouse/Garfield etc....oh yeah, no Coca Cola, MGM, Nike, NFL teams, college teams,etc.....

Many do all these designs but they do it at a risk.
Many of the younger ones are not in the know about it tho.

And how they check them is either one, they catch you while you are making the product. Or 2, they send in a kid and ask if you can do Tweety on a shirt. Kinda like how they check to see if a store will sell beer to a minor.

It really is messed up, I agree.

And once again, I am very sorry that you got caught up in this mess.

Best of luck~~
snarky

reply to post by goou111

well i do have a clue.. ive been in the game a long time and always knew eventually i would get shut down

Oh, well then....

Was it worth the risk???

reply to post by goou111


You stated that the person can buy the fake from China Legally. However, that isn't entirely true, it may be legal to buy it in China, but it's not legal to bring counterfeited goods into the USA.

I would simply ask you this: If it were your company or product, how would you react when you found out that your were losing money because someone was selling knock offs of your product and not paying you a single cent for it?
What if the losses due to counterfeits caused you to have to lay off employees who really needed the job to support their family?

If that doesn't bother you, then my argument doesn't work for you.

I have a friend who owns a 99 cent store, and was raided for selling "fake" merchandise. Yes, with registered trademarked logos, with no monies paid to the owners of the trademarks, they confiscated all the items...but he was in fact allowed to stay open.

Really bad to have is anything with registered trademark sports teams name and logos or anything Disney related. DHS was also hitting flea-marketers in Michigan for Beatles and Hendrix estate-owned trademarks. Of course, they are always looking for bootleg videos and c.d.'s as well too.

Arrests are usually made....

Originally posted by snarky412
reply to post by goou111

 

well i do have a clue.. ive been in the game a long time and always knew eventually i would get shut down

Oh, well then....

Was it worth the risk???

to be honest yeah. it was a little extra $ to help the ends meet.. and i did not get arrested or fined

but i wouldnt do it again cause they will make it a point to arrest me lol

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
reply to post by goou111

 

You stated that the person can buy the fake from China Legally. However, that isn't entirely true, it may be legal to buy it in China, but it's not legal to bring counterfeited goods into the USA.

I would simply ask you this: If it were your company or product, how would you react when you found out that your were losing money because someone was selling knock offs of your product and not paying you a single cent for it?
What if the losses due to counterfeits caused you to have to lay off employees who really needed the job to support their family?

If that doesn't bother you, then my argument doesn't work for you.

edit on 9-12-2012 by AutomaticSlim because: typo

i would want them to stop the product at customs. and thats what i would pay them to do. i would not pay them to go to flea markets and screw with an average american just tryin to make an honest buck

they could stop it at customs and put and end to it all that easy but they dont... why?

Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by snarky412
reply to post by goou111

 

well i do have a clue.. ive been in the game a long time and always knew eventually i would get shut down

Oh, well then....

Was it worth the risk???

to be honest yeah. it was a little extra $ to help the ends meet.. and i did not get arrested or fined

but i wouldnt do it again cause they will make it a point to arrest me lol

I understand....

And yes, they would arrest you the 2nd time.
You couldn't claim innocence of lack of knowledge about the "rules" this time.....

You are very lucky that you didn't get fined or jail.

Some we knew in the past weren't so lucky.....
I actually think they were tougher 20 years or so ago than they are today.
Of course, that was before there was such a thing as DHS.

Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
reply to post by goou111

 

You stated that the person can buy the fake from China Legally. However, that isn't entirely true, it may be legal to buy it in China, but it's not legal to bring counterfeited goods into the USA.

I would simply ask you this: If it were your company or product, how would you react when you found out that your were losing money because someone was selling knock offs of your product and not paying you a single cent for it?
What if the losses due to counterfeits caused you to have to lay off employees who really needed the job to support their family?

If that doesn't bother you, then my argument doesn't work for you.

edit on 9-12-2012 by AutomaticSlim because: typo

i would want them to stop the product at customs. and thats what i would pay them to do. i would not pay them to go to flea markets and screw with an average american just tryin to make an honest buck

they could stop it at customs and put and end to it all that easy but they dont... why?

It's sheer numbers. Do you have any idea how many products get imported into the USA each year? There isn't enough man power to check every shipping container, piece of luggage, all the mail, etc. If they hired enough people to check everything coming into the USA from other countries, this would truly be a police state beyond most peoples imagination.
If you want to find out more, here is a link
US International Trade

P.S. I can see that to you making an "honest buck" appears to include selling counterfeited goods.
If you would like to call this a victimless crime, then you may have an argument which could possibly be supported.

reply to post by AutomaticSlim


they can stop it at customs and they have.. last year during the superbowl no packages got through for 2 weeks

and if they have the manpower to have 10 agents in my little flea market store in the hood

they have the manpower to stop it at customs

reply to post by goou111

anf if they have the manpower to have 10 agents in my little flea market store in the hood

they have the manpower to stop it at customs

Ain't that the truth. They spend a 100 times what you make trying to keep you from making a buck 2 fifty at a swap meet. I hope them corporate fat cats are happy with your buck 2 fifty.

P.S. I can see that to you making an "honest buck" appears to include selling counterfeited goods.
If you would like to call this a victimless crime, then you may have an argument which could possibly be supported.




i feel it is a victimless crime

I also feel if you can make these for a couple bucks and the put 200$ price tags on it you are asking to get knockedoff

now if these shoe and jersey and purse companies would charge just say 50$ for the damm jersey that cost 2$
they would stomp out the fakes cause everyone would just buy the real ones

how much of a % markup do they need?