Hey Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives! Here's How Backwards You Really Are!!!

Originally posted by MarkJS

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Thomas Jefferson was the exception.... that is no problem. The majority was Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives, as the OP put it.

Again, very, very sorry that our tax dollars did not teach you the truth about our Founding Fathers.... sorry.

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

The majority may have been Christian (not sure about the hard-core right conservative part - they tended to be intellectuals who were more concerned with reason than faith), but there is NO evidence that they intended this nation to be governed on strictly Christian principles....

You're just jumping to conclusions that your public school upbringing taught you.... I'm not surprised.

You say (as you concede) that the people who founded this new country (at the time) were Christians, but then retract on the possibility that they wanted a Christian nation....

Well.... Whatever you want to believe, I guess....

In a sense, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what are you doing with Jesus? Jesus died for your sins... and took the punishment for them all.... All those nasty, hateful, betraying sins..that you and I committed... because He loves you, so you don't have to, and so that you don't have to go to hell for them. What's your response to that?

Because this is what will be on God's mind when you die. It's not really how many old ladies you helped across the street, or how much tax-exempt donations you've given.... His Son... and what you did with Him, will be what matters. tract link

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

I bolded the part that i'm replying to...

Nice guilt trip.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

The BIG problem with all religions underlined and now lower case as it deserves because MAN created god!!!

Ah, and by your logic, man also created himself and the plants and all the animals too, and all the planets of the universe. Interesting theory. Or perhaps the plants and animals all created themselves. Or maybe they were all created by man through Project Blue Beam and this is all just a holographic illusion. (end sarcasm)

The thing is, we really don't know how everything came to be. We certainly don't know for certain that if there was a creator, that he is exactly like the creator described in the Bible, or the creator described in the Qur'an, or the creator described in any other religious book. We don't know for sure if the Romans and Greeks weren't correct, with their multiple gods belief. None of us know for sure - but I don't think they can all be correct - and maybe they are all wrong. Maybe the true creator is nothing like anything we could ever imagine. And maybe everything came to be by something other than a "creator".

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Should go good with my cadre of.....adult beverages. Billy never lets me down, he really does get me going.

It will be interesting because Rubicon made some valid concerns known as the thread drifted, but wasn't willing to call out the OPs assertions as the crux of the side-track. Make a claim that it is because of certain group and guess what? People will defend it.

On the flip-side, it nearly is the only way to garner attention in certain circles of ATS. Controversy breeds debate here.

Sex comes with a price. Pleasure, Pregnancies, STD's, Cancer, Abortion, etc....

40 year low for Teens in America, and unwanted Pregnancies. Thats not because of Christian right Conservatives. thats not because of openness, or free love with condoms. Thats because some Parents realize that Teens are going to have sex, and they have no choice but to do the right thing, responsible thing, and educate them. Responsibility is between the Teen and the Parents.

If you dont want Pregnancies, STD's, Cancer, Abortion, etc.... Abstinence is the only way. Contraceptives is not a true fix.MHO

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

hmm

I see someone with a political axe and religious axe to grind here.

I see someone who falls for the left right paradigm.

Incorrect. I have an "axe to grind" with people who are either incapable or unwilling to acknowledge mathematical realities. However, the left-right paradigm ABSOLUTELY exists...at least in the minds of the American Peasant. If it didn't...Fox News AND MSNBC would be bankrupt. The ONLY place the left-right paradigm DOESN'T exist is in the U.S. Government were it's much more of "I like money" sort of paradigm. The left-right paradigm has been created and imposed BY the peasants ON the peasants by our willingness to let Utopian Ideology replace the mathematically quantifiable results of policy.

I see someone who knows nothing about christianity yet bashes is.

Quit whining....it's not "christian bashing" to acknowledge that there is quite a large of group of christian extremists in this country who simply REFUSE to acknowledge scientific and mathematically quantified realities. That DOESN'T mean that ALL CHRISTIANS do this...just some of them.

I am trying to figure out what is the difference in mentality between you and "the hardcore chirstian right conservatives".

I see none.

Look closer. My logic is based upon the scientific method. Also...I passed math class in High School.

both you and what you hate are the problem in this world

The only thing I "hate" is willful ignorance.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MarkJS

There are many different kinds of Christians. There are the "live and let live" Christians who don't concern themselves with how others live their lives; there the more liberal Christians who accept things like homosexuality/gay marriage; and then there are the far-right fundamentalist Christians who want to force everyone else to live according to their narrow-minded ways. Show me the evidence that the founding fathers designed the constitution to force Americans to live according to their Christian principles. The evidence is not there. The founding fathers wanted America to be a country of religious freedom - so that everyone could live according to their own religion (or lack of).

What am I doing with Jesus? I don't understand the question. Do I believe in Jesus? I'm a lot like Thomas Jefferson - I like the primary teachings of Jesus: love your neighbor as yourself; judge not lest ye be judged . Do I believe Jesus is God? I'm an agnostic - I don't even know if there is a God. I try to live a good life - help others in need, love my fellow man. I don't do that because I want to make sure I get to heaven. I do it because it feels right to me. I certainly don't believe in religious dogma - because that was invented by man to control the masses. No drinking, no dancing (I have a southern Baptist background), no homosexuality, no masturbation, no sex before marriage -- these were just rules written under the pretense of religion to control people.

The only religious principle I need is the Golden Rule - and that was around before Christianity.

You're right, in that different brands of Christianity have different rules. The question is more like...what are the rules that Jesus would want you to follow?

I certainly don't believe in religious dogma - because that was invented by man to control the masses. No drinking, no dancing....no homosexuality, no masturbation, no sex before marriage -- these were just rules written under the pretense of religion to control people.

When it all comes down, it's really between you and God, isn't it? Like I said.. go to an Assembly of God church... there you will find some answers... guaranteed.

reply to post by sonnny1


There appears to be an undercurrent thinking that sex is an uncontrollable, invouluntary act. Something that can't be controlled.

It eliminates personal responsibility from the lexicon of speech and absolves everyone from guilt or responsibility for their actions.

This social 'meme' is invading every aspect of society. From jobs and mortgages to sexand marriage. The victimhood and "I can't help myself" mentality is destroying individuality and personal responsibility by ceding all moral authority to the 'state'.

Thus endith my rant.

reply to post by kaylaluv

You say (as you concede) that the people who founded this new country (at the time) were Christians, but then retract on the possibility that they wanted a Christian nation....

One has to be able to perceive the context of their beginnings. The early colonists often wanted to escape the political control of religion coming from the Papacy and the King, and wanted the freedom to choose(between differing factions of Christianity, not different religions altogether)>
So we see that the issue was not stemming from conflicts between Christianity and Islam or Christianity and Judaism or Hinduism or Shintoism or even Chinese, who settled here later on.

The purpose of the separation of church and state was to keep the govt from imposing on freedom of religion, and therefore also keeping religious controls from being used in govt as a mechanism to control the people.
So now we have this whole secular humanist religion coming into play and the seculars hate God and religion and want to eliminate it completely everywhere they see it. This has been engineered by those who want to purge us from that opiate of the masses which Marx hated so much.

Somehow these same people, liberals and Democrats, seem to accept the World Council of Churches and various pagan religions and control of religion from the UN, and yet the hatred for the original Catholic Church is evident, and only Unitarian type Christianity is promoted. This is a false teaching which was prophesied for the end times in Revelation, interestingly. There are many false teachers and false teachings(not including the real teachers from varying true religions).

There is even another thread recently attacking the Catholic Church in Ireland involving the death of a young woman, and the attack is coming from Pro Choice people who are ruthlessly and callously using this tragedy as a prop for their programming and agenda. It is so vile as to be almost unspeakable.
anyway, so the seculars have twisted the entire meaning around to suit their agenda and it is all a falsehood and false premise.
Even the Founding Fathers had a number of Masons in their midst, not the least of who was George Washington. So the Constitution and the War was not about ending religion, but about freedom of it from tyrannical controls, and also freedom from taxation without representation, in other words freedom from arbitrary taxation by the King. And now here come the tax and spend Democrats who keep coming up with more socialist programs needing more taxation. This is what is against the Founding Fathers and the principles of the Founding of this country.

Tea = Taxed Enough Already

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by sonnny1

 

There appears to be an undercurrent thinking that sex is an uncontrollable, invouluntary act. Something that can't be controlled.

It eliminates personal responsibility from the lexicon of speech and absolves everyone from guilt or responsibility for their actions.

This social 'meme' is invading every aspect of society. From jobs and mortgages to sexand marriage. The victimhood and "I can't help myself" mentality is destroying individuality and personal responsibility by ceding all moral authority to the 'state'.

Thus endith my rant.

Quote for TRUTH!!!

Originally posted by Evil_Santa

Originally posted by MarkJS

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Thomas Jefferson was the exception.... that is no problem. The majority was Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives, as the OP put it.

Again, very, very sorry that our tax dollars did not teach you the truth about our Founding Fathers.... sorry.

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

The majority may have been Christian (not sure about the hard-core right conservative part - they tended to be intellectuals who were more concerned with reason than faith), but there is NO evidence that they intended this nation to be governed on strictly Christian principles....

You're just jumping to conclusions that your public school upbringing taught you.... I'm not surprised.

You say (as you concede) that the people who founded this new country (at the time) were Christians, but then retract on the possibility that they wanted a Christian nation....

Well.... Whatever you want to believe, I guess....

In a sense, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what are you doing with Jesus? Jesus died for your sins... and took the punishment for them all.... All those nasty, hateful, betraying sins..that you and I committed... because He loves you, so you don't have to, and so that you don't have to go to hell for them. What's your response to that?

Because this is what will be on God's mind when you die. It's not really how many old ladies you helped across the street, or how much tax-exempt donations you've given.... His Son... and what you did with Him, will be what matters. tract link

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

I bolded the part that i'm replying to...

Nice guilt trip.

It's not really a guilt trip, as so much it's the center of the world... as all of the calendar, and all of history,
i.e. 2012 AD - the year of OUR LORD
revolves around one person being born into this world, and then dying for it/us, to redeem us from our sins. Sorry if you think that it was a cheap shot... Jesus didn't think so.

The irrational hatred against Christianity astounds me.... Jesus, who died for the world, for all mankind's sins.. so that people would Not have to feel the Lord God's wrath, so that they don't go to hell for eternity.... It's like, there was a problem with the dying of Jesus, or something... I don't get it.

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by ShotGunRum

 

Very strange that you would say that... Because believe it or not, God created the sex drive.. The devil, on the other hand, created nothing.. .. just knows how to pervert what God creates...

Don't worry.... God will deal with him soon...

Your beef should be with the atheists and satanists. These people are the ones who are keeping the world behind. In fact the car is in reverse going 30mph. Liberals and progressives are not atheists for the most part. Communists are!

Let's see. Teenagers are developementally, emotionally, physically, and finacially immature to be having sex and getting pregnant. People speak about abortions the same as getting a haircut. Do we not think about the emotional and physical ramifications of doing such a proceedure? The fact of the matter, free contraception and abortions have to be paid by someone...the taxpayer. This is no more fair than if the tax payers paid to buy and distribute bibles to teens. How would the OP feel about that? Bibles for teens on the tax payers dime? Don't say its not the same because in principle it is. How does sex ed and promiscuity promote self respect, respect for one's body, and respect for life? It doesn't.

What if the teen had sex, got pregnant, and wanted to keep the child? Guess what??? That parent is raising another kid. Because a teen is not prepaired to raise a child. Then let's say she gets pregnant again. Now the parent is raising thier teen and two grand kids. On the flip side, how could someone encourage the girl to abort thier grandchild? Are we to allow 10 year olds to have sex? Is that acceptable? Teens are still kids in adult-like bodies. The prefrontal cortex of the brain does not full develoope until the mid 20's. This area is responsible for higher reasoning and logic.

These are concerns every loving parent must think about. This post is not about what religion says...It's about the OP having issues with moral absolutes. The same moral absolutes which Christianity is based on. It's ok to be tolerant, but when it comes to someone praising the Prince of Peace, the living savior Jesus Christ, intolerence and hate surrounds the Christian. I'll tell you what that Christian is thinking when they read threads like this..."The more they hate me the more I know Christ lives."

Originally posted by sonnny1

Sex comes with a price. Pleasure, Pregnancies, STD's, Cancer, Abortion, etc....

Incorrect. All of these preventable...and one is completely fictitious. "Sex" does NOT "CAUSE" cancer!!??!! HPV CAN SOMETIMES cause cancer...but that is viral pathogen...not the action of engaging in sexual activity.

It's THIS EXACT KIND of TERRIBLE critical thinking that holds our country back on so many levels.

40 year low for Teens in America, and unwanted Pregnancies. Thats not because of Christian right Conservatives. thats not because of openness, or free love with condoms. Thats because some Parents realize that Teens are going to have sex, and they have no choice but to do the right thing, responsible thing, and educate them. Responsibility is between the Teen and the Parents.

I agree. However...please note that the way the Netherlands teaches THEIR kids to be responsible is STILL 9X MORE EFFECTIVE AT STOPPING TEEN PREGNANCY AND ABORTIONS!! That doesn't mean the US is "making progress"...that means that we just "slightly less backwards than we were previously". It's like bragging about a "comeback" in a basketball game because you finally scored 10 points against the other teams 90 in the fourth quarter. You are still losing...BADLY.

If you dont want Pregnancies, STD's, Cancer, Abortion, etc.... Abstinence is the only way. Contraceptives is not a true fix.MHO

Well...of course not. NOTHING is a "true fix" in an absolute sense given that Abstinence when advocated FAILS MISERABLY because it is frequently NOT ADHERED TO and your own religion is BASED UPON abstinence allegedly failing at least ONCE...right?? Talk about "nothing being a 100%"...Don't we have a pretty major holiday coming up which CELEBRATES the failure of abstinence in preventing a certain pregnancy???


That being said...in the REAL WORLD...what we ACTUALLY KNOW is that free contraception, free abortions, and 2/3 of Dutch parents being OK with teens sharing the same bed and "sleeping" over UNIVERSALLY is more successful at reducing teen pregnancies, STD's, and abortions.

I know it will take some getting used to...but that is REALITY.

reply to post by lambs to lions


I *AM* a parent and I would much rather my 11 year old son is exposed to reality (ie, people do have sex) rather than some fantasyland where humans have no sexual contact. Do I want him engaging in sexual activities anytime soon? NO! But I do believe he should have a foundation for when it does happen.

I gave him his first full-on sex talk at 8 1/2 because he had been asking questions around the subject. While he was amusingly incredulous about some of the facts ("Are you SERIOUS?????!!!"), he now has a basis of understanding when it comes to human reproduction... including some of the potentially negative ramifications: pregnancy, STDs, etc...

On the flipside of that are my parents who were both from missionary families and didn't really have even the slightest clue about sex when they got married. They were so clueless, in fact, that I was born within 10 months of their wedding even though they wanted to wait a few years. In other words, they didn't have a single clue about things like birth control.

Like most issues that have somehow become religious, rather than social, debates there is a lot of gray area here. If I say that I am pro sex education those on the other side will think that I am pro kids having sex. If the other side says they are pro abstinence teaching then I will think they are living in la-la land. The truth of the matter is that kids should learn a little of both.

OP - Just how many of these pregnant teenagers do you think are actually hardcore right-wing conservative Christians?
Same question goes for the boys who made them pregnant.

Seems to me the problem is a lack of morality creating these conditions.
Just because young people in Europe are more responsible (and perhaps more intelligent) about their sexual behavior is not a reason to blame either religion or the state.
Why? Because it's the parents responsibility to teach their kids about safe sex.

I don't agree with teaching abstinence - but most kids already know what makes them pregnant and do it anyway because they can then drop out of school and get paid to raise a child.

Originally posted by milominderbinder


Incorrect. All of these preventable...and one is completely fictitious. "Sex" does NOT "CAUSE" cancer!!??!! HPV CAN SOMETIMES cause cancer...but that is viral pathogen...not the action of engaging in sexual activity.

A virus spread by oral sex may cause more cases of throat cancer in men than smoking, a finding that spurred calls for a new large-scale test of a drug used against the infection. Researchers examined 271 throat-tumor samples collected over 20 years ending in 2004 and found that the percentage of oral cancer linked to the human papillomavirus, or HPV, surged to 72 percent from about 16 percent, according to a report released yesterday in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. By 2020, the virus-linked throat tumors -- which mostly affected men -- will become more common than HPV-caused cervical cancer, the report found.

Oral Sex May Cause More Throat Cancer Than Smoking in Men, Researchers Say

Since your about statistics, heres one for you. If it doesn't fit your "box" of facts, do you dismiss it?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Boom! There it is!

The Dutch figured out that if you focus on the happiness of the people instead of controlling people, society operates much better. Casual sex happens in every human society. That is a fact and cannot be refuted. The problem in America is that a lot of people, by way of church brainwashing cannot accept the fact having sex for fun and pleasure is a very normal human activity.

A lot of high school teens in the US are having sex all the time. They simply lie to their overbearing christian parents and have even more sex as an act of rebellion. It seems to me that Christianity, or rather the church, goes against the natural material conditions of society as opposed to working to support and improve the social conditions of society.

Conclusion, Long Live The Netherlands!

It's not really a guilt trip, as so much it's the center of the world... as all of the calendar, and all of history,
i.e. 2012 AD - the year of OUR LORD
revolves around one person being born into this world, and then dying for it/us, to redeem us from our sins.

Two things:

#1 : You are out in left-field. Please stay on the topic of the irrational and ineffective approach the christian right takes towards sex and abortion...especially TEEN sex and abortion.

#2 : You are incorrect about the date. It is common knowledge that NOBODY has ANY IDEA what year "jesus" was allegedly born...and even then the Gregorian calendar is mathematically inferior to many other calendrical systems in the world.

The MOST ACCURATE way to express what our culture "calculates" (using the term in the LOOSEST sense of the word) as "December 9th, 2012 at 2:33PM CST" is as follows:

baktun 12 katun 19 tun 19 uinal 17 kin 8
Haab: 11 Mac
Tzolkin: 5 Lamat

Note that this far superior and more accurate description of our temporal-spatial displacement was produced by a bunch of Pagans.

Originally posted by Jauk3
Conclusion, Long Live The Netherlands!

Correct!

Originally posted by freedomwv
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Boom! There it is!

The Dutch figured out that if you focus on the happiness of the people instead of controlling people, society operates much better. Casual sex happens in every human society. That is a fact and cannot be refuted. The problem in America is that a lot of people, by way of church brainwashing cannot accept the fact having sex for fun and pleasure is a very normal human activity.

A lot of high school teens in the US are having sex all the time. They simply lie to their overbearing christian parents and have even more sex as an act of rebellion. It seems to me that Christianity, or rather the church, goes against the natural material conditions of society as opposed to working to support and improve the social conditions of society.

Pretty much.

Interestingly...just because there is quantifiable statistics which illustrate the Netherlands approach is NINE TIMES more effective...we still have all sorts of christians on this thread who advocate for MORE ABORTIONS by continuing to preach their demonstrably failed "fire and brimstone" doctrines.

Weird, huh?

I thought they were "against" abortion???