Hey Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives! Here's How Backwards You Really Are!!!

'Being ok with teen sex is disgusting and irresponsible.'

How do people not understand that their 'moral stance' on issues such as sexuality is purely based on assumptions, that yes DO largely have their roots in the religious environment and resulting world-view that has been dominant over the last few thousand years? Your position is an emotional worldview, based on assumptions, and not based on logic. Arguing from emotional assumption does nothing in terms of real debate, since what you say is only valid if the other person accepts your assumption. I do not accept the assumption that sexuality and immorality have ANYTHING to do with each other.

reply to post by milkyway12

Don't have sex until marriage. Outlaw abortion. Problem solved.

For me, it's a complete turn off to know a woman wants to bed me and we aren't married. It actually sort of grosses me out, but whatever.

This is the problem with most Christian right wing extremists. They're in the closet and hate the world because of that.

If you're grossed out by a woman's natural sex drive...then women are not your thing.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

You're right.... Abuse, even in crouched in what they claim is Christianity is still abuse. Go to an Assembly Of God church ... local to you... There, you will find reconciliation to God, and peace.... like eternal peace.

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Thomas Jefferson was the exception.... that is no problem. The majority was Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives, as the OP put it.

Again, very, very sorry that our tax dollars did not teach you the truth about our Founding Fathers.... sorry.

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

The majority may have been Christian (not sure about the hard-core right conservative part - they tended to be intellectuals who were more concerned with reason than faith), but there is NO evidence that they intended this nation to be governed on strictly Christian principles.

I have access to the same information you have access to. You are just seeing that information with religious zealot eyes.

reply to post by ShotGunRum

Very strange that you would say that... Because believe it or not, God created the sex drive.. The devil, on the other hand, created nothing.. .. just knows how to pervert what God creates...

Don't worry.... God will deal with him soon...

reply to post by MarkJS


Are you capable of finding eternal peace in the teachings of Zeus, Horus, or Athena? Me either. I've tried your method. I was raised in a Presbyterian home, attended a Lutheran Christian School, tried a Methodist and Catholic Church as a grown up.

While I found the doctrine of "love your neighbor as you love yourself," and "judge not, or risk judgement yourself" to be wonderful ideals, I could not get past the rest of it. It just never rang true, and didn't make me feel anything positive about myself or other people.

But I begrudge you nothing. Go and be a Christian, or whatever works for you. Just do it in peace, love and understanding, while living as much as you can in a state of grace.

Everything else is a distraction.

Looks like everyone went for this troll thread.

Great counter-arguments by the Christians.

I don't think they listen to us Christians anyway. Some other agenda rocks their world...probably permissiveness.

Just sayin.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Thomas Jefferson was the exception.... that is no problem. The majority was Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives, as the OP put it.

Again, very, very sorry that our tax dollars did not teach you the truth about our Founding Fathers.... sorry.

edit on 9/12/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)

The majority may have been Christian (not sure about the hard-core right conservative part - they tended to be intellectuals who were more concerned with reason than faith), but there is NO evidence that they intended this nation to be governed on strictly Christian principles....

You're just jumping to conclusions that your public school upbringing taught you.... I'm not surprised.

You say (as you concede) that the people who founded this new country (at the time) were Christians, but then retract on the possibility that they wanted a Christian nation....

Well.... Whatever you want to believe, I guess....

In a sense, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what are you doing with Jesus? Jesus died for your sins... and took the punishment for them all.... All those nasty, hateful, betraying sins..that you and I committed... because He loves you, so you don't have to, and so that you don't have to go to hell for them. What's your response to that?

Because this is what will be on God's mind when you die. It's not really how many old ladies you helped across the street, or how much tax-exempt donations you've given.... His Son... and what you did with Him, will be what matters. tract link

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
reply to post by milkyway12

 

This is the problem with most Christian right wing extremists. They're in the closet and hate the world because of that.

If you're grossed out by a woman's natural sex drive...then women aren't your thing.

edit on 9-12-2012 by ShotGunRum because: (no reason given)

I thought we were talking about children here. I am a little grossed out by anyone who encourages a child's sex drive!

reply to post by wmd_2008

The BIG problem with all religions underlined and now lower case as it deserves because MAN created god!!!

Ah, and by your logic, man also created himself and the plants and all the animals too, and all the planets of the universe. Interesting theory. Or perhaps the plants and animals all created themselves. Or maybe they were all created by man through Project Blue Beam and this is all just a holographic illusion. (end sarcasm)

reply to post by milominderbinder

In the Netherlands the attitudes towards teen sex are much, much, more casual. It's just not a big deal. In fact 2/3 of Dutch parents permit their high school aged sons and daughters to spend the night at one or the others house, sleep in the same bed, and fornicate like rabbits if that's what they want to do. Moreover, the government not only teaches contraception in their Sex Ed classes...but the government actually gives them as much free contraception and as many publicly funded abortions as these teenagers ask for. Here are their teen pregnancy and abortions.

-Teen Pregnancy : 7.7 out of 1,000.
-Teen Abortion: 3.9 out of 1,000.

I think your data is outdated.

Deconstructing the Dutch Utopia
Sex education and teenage pregnancy in the Netherlands (2003)

In the Netherlands pregnancy rates continued to drop until 1995, and an increase is noticeable since then (Rademakers, 2002).

Indeed, over the last decade, Dutch teenage pregnancy rates have increased by 35%; this is mainly due to a sharp increase in conceptions terminated by abortion (also see Garssen and Sprangers, 2000).

The general statistics, however, do not reveal that some areas in the Netherlands, especially the three main cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague), have experienced higher increases in teenage pregnancies (Garssen and Sprangers, 2000: 27). For example, the local government of The Hague recently reported an increase in the number of births among teenagers of 22.1 per cent over the last five years (Jongeren Informatie Punt, 2002).

www.famyouth.org.uk...

reply to post by Rezlooper


Um, he wasn't talking about children. He was talking about marriage and himself, who is an adult. You should probably look to what I replied to.

Originally posted by MarkJS

You're just jumping to conclusions that your public school upbringing taught you.... I'm not surprised.

You say (as you concede) that the people who founded this new country (at the time) were Christians, but then retract on the possibility that they wanted a Christian nation....

Well.... Whatever you want to believe, I guess....

In a sense, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what are you doing with Jesus? Jesus died for your sins... and took the punishment for them all.... because He loves you. What's your response to that?



There are many different kinds of Christians. There are the "live and let live" Christians who don't concern themselves with how others live their lives; there the more liberal Christians who accept things like homosexuality/gay marriage; and then there are the far-right fundamentalist Christians who want to force everyone else to live according to their narrow-minded ways. Show me the evidence that the founding fathers designed the constitution to force Americans to live according to their Christian principles. The evidence is not there. The founding fathers wanted America to be a country of religious freedom - so that everyone could live according to their own religion (or lack of).

What am I doing with Jesus? I don't understand the question. Do I believe in Jesus? I'm a lot like Thomas Jefferson - I like the primary teachings of Jesus: love your neighbor as yourself; judge not lest ye be judged . Do I believe Jesus is God? I'm an agnostic - I don't even know if there is a God. I try to live a good life - help others in need, love my fellow man. I don't do that because I want to make sure I get to heaven. I do it because it feels right to me. I certainly don't believe in religious dogma - because that was invented by man to control the masses. No drinking, no dancing (I have a southern Baptist background), no homosexuality, no masturbation, no sex before marriage -- these were just rules written under the pretense of religion to control people.

The only religious principle I need is the Golden Rule - and that was around before Christianity.

*

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes


This is from your article. Do you think that the reason the diagnoses has gone up is because of more people getting themselves tested?

Yes.More people get sick, more people go find out why they have a symptom.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

This thread in general stinks of being just another thinly veiled attempt to start bashing Christians. The real issues here are what are acceptable societal norms.

For the 100th time...NO ONE IS "BASHING" CHRISTIANS!! I agree 100% that it's about societal norms. Now...in general...which demographic group in the United States has BOTH historically AND currently had an ENORMOUS problems with teaching and providing contraception in sex ed classes, acknowledging the reality of teenage sexual behavior, and accepting that the Federal Government simply does not have the Constitutional authority to regulate human reproduction? (i.e. They cannot PREVENT you from having an abortion any more than they can REQUIRE you to have one.) Is it:

A) The Atheists, Agnostics, and Secular Humanists.
B) The Jews.
C) Traditional Liberals
D) Traditional Conservatives
E) Hardcore, Right-Wing, Science-Denying, Christian Fundamentalists Who Think The Bible Is Best Interpreted Literally.

(Hint: Only one correct answer when talking about the demographics as whole...not necessarily an exception to the rule here and there).

Yes they often have quite an overlap with the religious belief systems which predominate in the country in question, but usually in a much more indirect way (At least in 1st world countries). In Europe yes they do have overall a much more liberal view of sex, drugs and alcohol. And yet they are abused far less than in the States which overall tends to be much more religious.

^^^ Exactly. That's the whole point of the thread.

The key here is if you want someone to be responsible, you cannot treat them as some overgrown child. It is not uncommon for teens in Europe to have a class of wine with their meals and yet alcohol is far less of a problem over there. Childhood used to end at 12 or 13, now its been extended to 21.

I again WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. We wonder why the kids in our nation don't move out of the basement until their mid-20's...yet simultaneously keep them sheltered in a hermetically sealed bubble until they are 21 years old. You can't have it both ways....if you want kids to act like even YOUNG adults at the age of 18...you just have to start TREATING THEM that way a little sooner.

Besides...what could POSSIBLY be WORSE PARENTING than not allowing your child to fulfill, learn about, or experience their sexual, emotional, and psychological NEEDS at home...and then dropping them off at college when they are 18 yrs old in a dorm FILLED with sex, drugs, booze, and rock and roll?? Isn't it better that they are permitted to engage in normal human behavior at home first WITHOUT having to be ashamed, embarrassed, or sneak around??

I think so....and the statistics would seem to indicate that I'm largely correct. Irrespective of one's personal opinion or religious tradition...data are suggesting raising kids in a "fire and brimstone"/Abstinence/Prohibition sort of environment about sexuality is simply irresponsible.

One must also consider poverty and education levels which is a much greater influencing factor than religion (in 1st world nations). The US of A is probably the worst in these two areas than anywhere else in the developed world...

I AGREE 100%!!!!!!

That's why I made certain to point out in the OP SOME OF THE OTHER sociological factors which makes the Netherlands much, much, different from Mississippi besides JUST a lack of the religious extremism which we see taking root in much of the Deep South.

For example poverty and/or FEAR of poverty is CLEARLY one of the driving forces in women determining to abort. To say it isn't is to simply deny reality. However...the Netherlands is not only very liberal about such things as sex and drugs...they are ALSO have around 27% of the country who are Atheists (tied for Belgium for #3 in the world. #1 being France at 33% and #2 being the Czech republic at 30%) AND having the good sense to have a lot of robust social programs whilst still maintaing a thriving free market system.

To ignore the fact that mothers-to-be in the Netherlands don't have to fear financial ruin NEARLY to the extent that American mothers-to-be do is simply poor critical thinking. After all...the infant mortality rate in the US is nearly TWICE as high as it is in the Netherlands due to the vastly superior socialized medical care that ALL women receive.

However...don't ALL of these points indicate that the wisest, best, and most responsible path forward is to in a GENERAL sense strive for policy that more closely mirrors the Netherlands rather than those of Mississippi??

...at least if you are "against" abortion and teen pregnancy that is.

Right??

reply to post by milominderbinder


hmm

I see someone with a political axe and religious axe to grind here.

I see someone who falls for the left right paradigm.

I see someone who knows nothing about christianity yet bashes is.

I am trying to figure out what is the difference in mentality between you and "the hardcore chirstian right conservatives".

I see none.

both you and what you hate are the problem in this world

reply to post by ShotGunRum


10-4, but my comment still applies for some others on this thread

reply to post by votan

I see someone who falls for the left right paradigm.

Social conservatism is only believed by one side of our country, which is the right.

Hilarious? I find it sad, sad that parents would let their kids fornicate like rabbits and encourage masking and covering up the results of their poor choices. I can see whom God will punish first, but if they do so out of ignorance, there may still be some grace left.