White House wants a "Black Box" in every car

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
but having the freedom to text and drive like a moron is more important, right ?

Yeah, actually, it is.

I am on the fence on this one. There are horrible drivers out there who seem to get away with causing crashes with no affect on their driving record or holding a license. In over 10 years of driving I never was involved in a crash but because of some legal bs my license was suspended x3 for the same offense. The first time I had reinstated but can't afford to now, again this is all for the same incident. But I know of people who are involved in at least one accident a year and many more through out there driving life yet still are allowed to drive with no restrictions and many of them even have safe driver still on their license. I do firmly believe that those who text and drive and cause accidents deserve the same punishment as a drunk driver causing the same accident.

The real question about black boxes in a car is who would pay for it. If implemented I guarantee it will be another fee on top of insurance, registration and inspection fees all drivers have to pay.

Originally posted by Rezlooper
So, if it began recording when the airbag went off, how do they determine the cause? How do they know if I swerved to miss the beloved squirrel or I just plain missed a curve because I was texting? Not understanding this yet. Sure, someone else posted it records when something abnormal happens, but if I drove straight off a curve, how would it know that was abnormal?

Nope, that's not what they do. They stop recording after a crash. Untill it stops the device records on a continous loop. It overrides the older data continously.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
but having the freedom to text and drive like a moron is more important, right ?

Yeah, actually, it is.

Actually you lost that "right" the moment you use a road other people use too.

Originally posted by Rezlooper
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

How does it just record the seconds before a crash? Did it know you were going to crash?

Because it overwrites older data - seriously - the ability to do this has existed ever since recordings were invented!!

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Rezlooper
So, if it began recording when the airbag went off, how do they determine the cause? How do they know if I swerved to miss the beloved squirrel or I just plain missed a curve because I was texting? Not understanding this yet. Sure, someone else posted it records when something abnormal happens, but if I drove straight off a curve, how would it know that was abnormal?

Nope, that's not what they do. They stop recording after a crash. Untill it stops the device records on a continous loop. It overrides the older data continously.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
but having the freedom to text and drive like a moron is more important, right ?

Yeah, actually, it is.

Actually you lost that "right" the moment you use a road other people use too.

edit on 9/12/2012 by PsykoOps because: add

I didn't say it was right to drive like a moron, people are going to no matter what you do - that's what police are for. But to force EVERYONE to use technology that allows the government to pinpoint their exact location at any time is wrong.

Those who willingly give up freedom for safety deserve neither. You are one of those who are willing, aint ya? I'm not.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Actually you lost that "right" the moment you use a road other people use too.

Until they develop pre-crime technology (I'm sure there is a government funded scientist working away on it as we type here.) people always have the right to act imprudently, immorally or illegally. You cannot take away right for something one"might do”, could do or even would do given the opportunity. You can only take reasonable and prudent measures to ensure that people comply with laws.

Monitoring your travel habits without consent is a violation of the 4th Amendment. Restricting that right with onerous legislation, taxation and fees is a violation of a preson's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. However, people have been conditioned one bite at a time to cede these rights and accept restrictions on these freedoms "for the sake of the children" and the "good of society".

Legal remedy exists for people to recover damages when people act negligently as long as it can be proven. Numerous fines and other punishments exist to act as a motivator for people to obey laws.

If we are going to cede our law enforcement to passive devices and machines I fear for our future. People are human and not binary thinkers. Law enforcement needs to be human as well.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Actually you lost that "right" the moment you use a road other people use too.

Monitoring your travel habits without consent is a violation of the 4th Amendment. Restricting that right with onerous legislation, taxation and fees is a violation of a preson's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. However, people have been conditioned one bite at a time to cede these rights and accept restrictions on these freedoms "for the sake of the children" and the "good of society".

This would be true if the majority of drivers in the US did not already have an on board GPS. Also insurance companies are offering some sort of device to monitor one's driving habits, mostly accelerating and braking, if the computer likes the way a person drives then the insurance rates go down. The technology is already here and the population is paying to use it.

Originally posted by jrod
This would be true if the majority of drivers in the US did not already have an on board GPS. Also insurance companies are offering some sort of device to monitor one's driving habits, mostly accelerating and breaking, if the computer likes the way a person drives then the insurance rates go down. The technology is already here and the population is paying to use it.

It is true, the US government doesn't mandate you have this item the insurance company "may" as a cost saving option or even "require" it as a condition of the contract to provide a service.

The difference is it is a voluntary agreement between two private entities not a government mandate.

Huge difference actually.

The government also requires things like seat belts, working lights, a horn, in some place emissions inspections, insurance, a driver's license, ect for our own safety. If you want to drive on the roads you have to be the governments rules, no getting around it. Its not that I think every car should have a black box, its more that that line has been crossed long ago and a black box isn't much of a requirement.

I'm full on against it. What an invasion of privacy into our daily lives that the government is yet again saying "is good for us" "it's the only way" That's a bunch of Malarkey!
No the way to insure better drivers is to make it harder to get a license. Five hour course in every state and I think a tour to a shop with a mangled car from either a drunk driving incident or texting. Maybe coming face to face with those who hurt and those who got hurt by the carelessness of others. It won't stop all people from being careless but NOTHING and I mean nothing is worth giving up the simple pleasures of privacy. We are watched in every store, outside just about everywhere, at stoplights etc... Please dont be so quick to think that this is right for us.
Please go read 1984 by George Orwell

Originally posted by beezzer
It's for the "Mileage Tax".

The Obama administration wants to spend $556 billion over the next six years on transportation projects, but they may have to get creative to pay for them. One "practical option" could be taxing drivers based on their mileage, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is reporting.

Linky

Just another way to tax us.

Bingo! Think about it! Electric and Hybrids using less fuel, public belt tightening has them buying more efficiant autos plus upcoming mandated fuel mileage standards = equals less fuel use.

Less fuel use equals much less revenue to government.

Once majority of private fleet has black boxes start looking for push on minimum road use tax coupled with a ding for high mileage use.

Hardly anyone caught tax issue of E10 and E15 which in effect lowered overall mileage of vehicles by 5% to 10%, that in itself not only cost the consumer on total fill ups but also enhanced tax revenue per gallon tax.

Many rural folks who now commute long distance will be hit hard and city folk who use very little gasoline will be caught up in minimum tax when instituted.

TPTB really want you on mass transportation where DHS can accost you everyday - ultimately you will be much easier to control that way.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
...But to force EVERYONE to use technology that allows the government to pinpoint their exact location at any time is wrong.

Those who willingly give up freedom for safety deserve neither. You are one of those who are willing, aint ya? I'm not.

That's just pure hyperbole. The data in black boxes is accessed only in a crash investigation or in an investigation to safety incidents such as the toyota accelaration scare.

Originally posted by Golf66
Monitoring your travel habits without consent is a violation of the 4th Amendment. Restricting that right with onerous legislation, taxation and fees is a violation of a preson's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. However, people have been conditioned one bite at a time to cede these rights and accept restrictions on these freedoms "for the sake of the children" and the "good of society".

More bs. from the same book. They don't access the data untill it's needed.

You people and your "rights".

Originally posted by jrod
The government also requires things like seat belts, working lights, a horn, in some place emissions inspections, insurance, a driver's license, ect for our own safety. If you want to drive on the roads you have to be the governments rules, no getting around it. Its not that I think every car should have a black box, its more that that line has been crossed long ago and a black box isn't much of a requirement.

Huge difference - seat belts, while I don't agree is not policing your thoughts or actions or collecting or storing information. You either choose to comply or pay the penalty if you are caught by a human law enforcement officer not doing so. The black box will remove the "witness" of the act of neglect requirement and store that information - collecting it without consent or a warrant to do so for purposes of being used as evidence against you later if determined to be relevant.

Inspections are for minimum standards, lights a horn, bumpers etc. You either comply or not, it is up to you. If you get caught without one, again by a human being you pay the fine or penalty. There is no automatic issuance of a ticket if you don't renew etc.

Licensing is simply to ensure you have a basic understanding of the rules of the road. It doesn't track your obeying them and store the data for use as future evidence against you.

The box would collect evidence that is already available by deduction and good detective work by skid marks, impact angles, witness statements etc. The black box could incriminate you in which is why its mandate by the government is unconstitutional. One cannot be required to consent to possible self incrimination as a condition of vehicle ownership/operation.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
That's just pure hyperbole. The data in black boxes is accessed only in a crash investigation or in an investigation to safety incidents such as the toyota accelaration scare.

Baaaaa, Baaaa - step this way please though these doors are green grass and sunny skies said the farmer to the sheep on their way to the slaughterhouse.

Originally posted by Golf66
Monitoring your travel habits without consent is a violation of the 4th Amendment. Restricting that right with onerous legislation, taxation and fees is a violation of a person’s right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. However, people have been conditioned one bite at a time to cede these rights and accept restrictions on these freedoms "for the sake of the children" and the "good of society".

Originally posted by PsykoOps
More bs. from the same book. They don't access the data untill it's needed.

You people and your "rights".

I'm sure the government would never ever misuse a safety device for the purpose of conducting surveillance or monitoring the activities of people...

Baaa, Baaa....

How do you suppose they access that data then? Magically teleport it to their evil reptilian super computers? Baa-baa

reply to post by PsykoOps


Or until one is mandated by law to have your "box" read lets say on a law enforcement stop, annual inspection, emissions test or registration. Gee a little tech added and they could read from short distance such such as roadside or handheld detectors.

Gotta say over the years all the "bad" government stuff started out for what seemed good reason and then was morphed and corrupted into something far worse.

The transition from nanny to witch seems to be quickening.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
How do you suppose they access that data then? Magically teleport it to their evil reptilian super computers? Baa-baa

I will only say this once. I was in the Army for 24 years, I was in military intelligence and special forces. If you do not think the technologies exists to see whatever they want when they want it you need only look at the technology that exists today and imagine that it is decades old before it is loosed on the general public.

Military intelligence gathering is pretty sophisticated - facial recognition from space, detecting trace amounts of a radioactive agent, again from space, you don't think the technology exists to get data from your car without a connection to the device? I would bet a paycheck it exists.

A chip here and viola what was once yours and the insurance investigators is now broadcast to every LEO within receiving distance. One sentence in a bill and it is done. You won’t even see it mired in 3K pages of shrimp sexual habit research funding but the people who need to see it will and it will be initiated and acted on.

The new Dodge's have a thermal camera for the "Automatic Climate Control". It's supposed to see your skin temperature and adjust the heating/cooling automatically....Works like CRAP. They likely use the thermal camera to monitor how many people are in the vehicle instead and other ill deeds.

Notice cars don't have radio antennas anymore? They used to put the radio antenna out on the fender to protect people from RF radiation. They ditched them and now passengers are exposed to more RF radiation. They now have "antennas" all over the cars to receive WIFI signals from the keyfob's to open doors/trunk. Those antennas also TRANSMIT all the time to LOOK for the keyfob's to verify they are around for the computer.

If you park your car near your home close enough the onboard computer will "see" your keyfob hanging in your hallway and verify it in the system....all somebody has to do then is blip a certain signal and you car's opeing up without even using your keyfob.

They've been spending massive sums on R&D making the computer bus systems in cars very very intelligent. They could send a signal to the car to disable the tranmission shift solenoid and oh nooo....your transmission isn't working right....Dealer charges you $3500.....in all reality all they have to do is plug into the car and re-enable the electronic solenoid and it's all working again.

They've been making automobiles have some very shady capabilities. They are all drive by wire now...your foot no longer has direct control to the throttle via a cable......some good hacker could make your car go full throttle sending you into a crash pretty easy. They had German Engineers develop "Stability Control Systems" for the transmission....all it is is software that slips the heck out of your transmission causing excessive internal heat and very premature wear.

Find an old car pre-computer era and restore it....it'll be worth it's weight in GOLD shortly.

If the white house wants this then it's going to be FEDERAL!!!!

Federal Govt. getting involved in car accidents directly from the white house.

Just saying...