White House wants a "Black Box" in every car, page 3

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reply posted on 8-12-2012 @ 10:58 PM by Rubic0n

Originally posted by sylent6
This goes with the good and the bad.

It would be a useful tool for law enforcement and your insurance companies for varies investigations

It will curved alot of criminal activities. But I'm curious, if you attempt to remove it from the vehicle, it could violates federal law or disable the vehicle if that allows it.
edit on 8-12-2012 by sylent6 because: (no reason given)

If you ask me it just comes with the bad under the guise of the good.

Everyone already accepted being monitored by cameras at work. The next step of acceptance is being monitored in the privacy of your own car. Then, your own house (!?).

Same reasoning, same method:
Monitoring you in the privacy of your own house can be a useful tool for law enforcement and your insurance company.

Why dont we all just microchip our children for life in mass while we are at it "for teh childrenz!". Next step of acceptance ,micro chipping everybody at birth, mandatory.

Right?

edit on 8-12-2012 by Rubic0n because: typo

reply posted on 8-12-2012 @ 11:43 PM by Rezlooper

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by beezzer

I wouldn't be opposed to this. Particularly with more and more cars running on fuels other than gasoline and diesel. Even more reason for these black boxes.

reply to post by D.Wolf

That's pretty amazing. Any way you can divulge what this technology is specifically being developed for? There are no laws (in the US) to tax on milage yet and, so far as I know, no state has implemented a way to automatically ticket people for speeding based on their driving.
edit on 8-12-2012 by links234 because: (no reason given)

No tax yet, but the company successfully creates the technology, then they lobby Congress on how this is necessary and how much revenue this will bring in and all the other positive points. And you know how it goes from there.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 12:47 AM by GunzCoty

reply to post by syrinx high priest

You're the person who gives away his freedom for false security.

Let me guess..... A camera in every house, car, truck, boat and bike?
Why not? If you are not a terrorist, then you have nothing to hide!
This chip will keep you safe as well, now tell your friends to do the same.

Why don't the police just do what we pay them to do and bust the texters?

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 01:41 AM by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by Rezlooper
reply to post by PsykoOps

How does it just record the seconds before a crash? Did it know you were going to crash? I believe that it will always be tracking your movements.

Hmm... just another way to monitor the activities of their slaves. Having a black box will not prevent accidents, just like police do not prevent crime. Someone asked how to monitor for texting, not easy but doable, you use a doppler sensor tuned to the cell frequency inside the car and either monitor zero cross or amplitude to determine cell phone position within the vehicle (since there could be multiple passengers, 3 of which might be texting and not driving). A Uniden BCt-12 works in a similar fashion monitoring police network RF amplitudes to determine distance to a police car, but since it is a single antenna unit, it cannot determine direction.

ETA: Actually, you could use 4 antenna ratiometric analysis of signal strength to determine cell phone position in a vehicle, it's quite a bit easier than looking at nyquist curves and doppler effect.

As far as storing accident data, they could use a circular list that has a sample recording duration of say 10 minutes. The oldest samples get overwirtten and replaced with the most recent samples and around and round it goes. It only requires about a megabyte for 100 16 bit samples per second.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 12/9.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: the ETA

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 01:57 AM by randomname

you don't need a black box to tell you why accidents happen.

drinking, running red lights, texting, racing, speeding in improper zones, not paying attention, distractions, being douchebags like not letting people merge when a 50,000 pound tractor trailer is barrelling down on you, crappy street, road and highways signs that confuse the crap out of you or tell you at the last second when your exit is, bad weather, being tired and caring more about the life of a squirrel than yourself, your passengers and fellow drivers.

plus many more.

a black box won't be able to record any of those things. so it's just a waste of money and make cars more expensive.

but knowing american politics, some campaign donor is about to strike it rich if the law passes since he'll have everything in place, like the technology, production plant, patent, big auto contracts and tax havens.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 02:39 AM by Britguy

As I understand it, about 90% of new cars already have this capability of recording data, which can be interrogated after an accident. As far as I am aware, it's just basic stuff such as speed, brake deployment, airbag deployment, seatbelt use etc. That's all fine in the case of a disputed insurance claim or accident investigation.

What seems to be proposed though goes way above and beyond this basic data reording, to include full GPS based tracking and reording. Of course, it'll be there to protect us all and help the government track the bad guys, you know, all those terrorist hordes in our midst we keep hearing about.

I have a pair of Blackvue dashcams (front and rear facing) that I installed in my car of my own accord after having to take avoiding action on two consecutive days early this year. Yes, they are both GPS enabled and record not only HD video, but location and speed etc, but that is for my (and my insurance premiums's) protection should I be unfortunate enough to be involved in a road accident. It's also protection from the scammers and professional accident claimants out there, who deliberatly cause accidents to claim every penny they can in "compensation", in this ridiculous culture the government have allowed to thrive.

This is, of course, all a far step from giving the government and it's various agencies, the ability to track my whereabouts if I speak ill of them. There has already been evidence of gross misuse of the number plate recording systems they have already, where people who have attended a protest find themselves being stopped by police because their car numberplate is on a database labeling the owners as subversives or terrorist suspects.

Of course, if I started tracking the whereabouts, online activity, phone call and emails of our dear elected representatives, I'd be arrested and locked up as they are such a fine bunch of upstanding citizens and patriots!

edit on 9-12-2012 by Britguy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 02:55 AM by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Rezlooper
reply to post by PsykoOps

How does it just record the seconds before a crash? Did it know you were going to crash? I believe that it will always be tracking your movements.

Well these kinds of systems have been around for awhile. They detect impacts and when airbags are deployed. It's not like there is an infinite storage capacity or wi-fi that sends the data streaming back to the evil overlords.

[Edit to add] Also you lose your right to privacy the second you crash.

edit on 9/12/2012 by PsykoOps because: add

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 06:41 AM by D.Wolf

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by beezzer

I wouldn't be opposed to this. Particularly with more and more cars running on fuels other than gasoline and diesel. Even more reason for these black boxes.

reply to post by D.Wolf

That's pretty amazing. Any way you can divulge what this technology is specifically being developed for? There are no laws (in the US) to tax on milage yet and, so far as I know, no state has implemented a way to automatically ticket people for speeding based on their driving.
edit on 8-12-2012 by links234 because: (no reason given)

Specifically it is developed to do the tax per mile driven. This is only a field trial but can, if successful, be followed up by an order of 30 to 40k units. Laws are not yet in place as is the technology and infrastructure. You are looking at the early stages, you might hear a lot more in a year or so.

States eye taxing miles driven, not gasoline

Instead of gas taxes, ODOT explores fees based on miles driven

Once both laws and infrastructure are in place this will become mandatory. Once in place in every vehicle, it can easily be used to automate speed ticketing and... I could come up with some more draconian use but that would bring us more and more into the realm of fiction. I can see the speed ticket thing happen though. But that wont be mentioned in the public awareness campaigns to create user acceptance.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 07:37 AM by fastbob72

Originally posted by Djayed
reply to post by Rezlooper

Its called a Gyroscope...it detects when "Abnormal" conditions occur and starts the process.

For everyone else:

OnStar is still going and thriving strong. They are owned by General Motors who created the technology. It comes factory installed on most of their cars with a free year of OnStar.

I think the Blackbox idea and Onstar are great. OnStar representatives will stay on the phone with you if your tired, they call you if they think your in an accident and would never automatically lock you in your car after an accident. They can lock your car down if it is stolen and always knows where it is at.

I would think as long as you are not living a life of crime and giving the government reasons to use these tools against you, you should have nothing to worry about.
edit on 12/8/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

Each to their own but I tend to see that process where I was a wee person the slowly learnt about life and grew up as being over many moons ago.

If I am going along in life minding my own business I have the right to be left in peace without being questioned
or monitored by government or anyone else.

I'm a lifelong car enthusiast from the Uk.Onstar sounds vaguely familiar but not sure what it is.

As for the blackbox idea they could use the ECU that controls the management system to store live data for the last mile say.it already recieves live feedback from a host of sensors to control the running of the car.

A genuine blackbox for diagnostics in the event of a crash would be incredibly easy to install

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 08:03 AM by jimmiec

There is already a black box in every car so to speak. The PCM keeps loads of information in it. You can tell how fast the car was going in a wreck, whether the brake was applied, how far the accelerator was depressed, what gear it was in, and tons of other info. The black box they speak of is most likely just tied to the PCM with a backup battery so the PCM does not lose it's memory in case of a collission.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 08:15 AM by jimmiec

I forgot to mention. The technology i spoke of has been in cars over 20 years already. I drew a transmission job about 20 years ago and had to include a printout of the event when the transmission failed. It gave me a speed of over 100 miles per hour and excessive speed in park. The customer was about to run out of warranty and slammed it into park at 100 mph. Repair denied.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 08:25 AM by Tennessee77

I think we need a black box in every public officials office. And maybe a body cam and mic just to be sure. Stream it all live over the net. We'll see how much crime we can uncover there. They are so keen on recording all of our words and movements. they will sell this tech to us at a hefty price under the guise of improved safety. I do not agree with all of this info gathering. I understand what can be done with this info (good and bad) i just dont trust people whom i have never met to make the good choice, especially when you look back at the overall track record and the direction we seem to be heading. . Also the threat of them making the bad choice outways a lot of the benefits of the good things that can come from this. What we do not need are computers making judgment calls on our lifes. Or even people who have the authority to make judgements on our lives based on the parameters of what a program deems acceptable. That would open the doors for corrupt people to have the authority to change your life. I still believe we should only be charged with crimes we have committed, and not crimes we might commit sometime later. Thanks for reading👍

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 08:35 AM by Tennessee77

Originally posted by Rubic0n

Originally posted by sylent6
This goes with the good and the bad.

It would be a useful tool for law enforcement and your insurance companies for varies investigations

It will curved alot of criminal activities. But I'm curious, if you attempt to remove it from the vehicle, it could violates federal law or disable the vehicle if that allows it.
edit on 8-12-2012 by sylent6 because: (no reason given)

If you ask me it just comes with the bad under the guise of the good.

Everyone already accepted being monitored by cameras at work. The next step of acceptance is being monitored in the privacy of your own car. Then, your own house (!?).

Same reasoning, same method:
Monitoring you in the privacy of your own house can be a useful tool for law enforcement and your insurance company.

Why dont we all just microchip our children for life in mass while we are at it "for teh childrenz!". Next step of acceptance ,micro chipping everybody at birth, mandatory.

Right?

edit on 8-12-2012 by Rubic0n because: typo

Yea that is exactly what i am talking about. One day you'll get an e-mail from your insurance company saying "we noticed you didnt brush your teeth this morning, so we have dropped you from your dental plan".
(The gov will protect the bottom line of these large businesses before it will stand up for the people. Oh wait i guess these corporations are people now. Sheesh. )

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 08:42 AM by DAVID64

reply to post by Djayed

"I would think as long as you are not living a life of crime and giving the government reasons to use these tools against you, you should have nothing to worry about."

There's that again. The "if you're not doing anything, why would you care". It's about Freedom from the government looking over you shoulder, deciding what you can do, when you can do it and who you can do it with. Look at governments record. Everything they gets their greedy little hands on, they abuse or it's FUBAR. They say they'll only access it only under certain circumstances, but they determine what those are. Next thing you know, every cop in the nation can look at how you've been driving, then you get retroactive tickets. Speeding last week? 75$ fine. It's all about more control.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 09:37 AM by Dan001

reply to post by Rezlooper

A Black Box seems too intrusive, for sure.

What I propose:

Technology that reads driver input.
You ever see how texting/drivers have this way of jerking their steering wheel every few seconds? Because they are not really driving, but putting minimal attention and effort into the task.

Driver analysis tech.

The tech. senses reckless driving and sends a signal to law enforcement.

"Oh, but that's an invasion of privacy!"

Well, driving stupid is an invasion of idiocy.
Idiots mess things up for everyone, unfortunately.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 09:51 AM by MyHappyDogShiner

This is old technology,and has been a long time coming.

There is nothing amiss about monitoring people in the commons,you and I have never been deprived of any rights in the commons,other than to infringe on the rights of others.

It's called being considerate of others who are using the same space as you,as in not running over pedestrians,or driving recklessly.

A black box certainly would be useful to figure out who did a hit and run,leaving people for dead to keep from losing their driving priviledges,or getting their insurance jacked up.

Most people shouldn't have a driver's license,cuz they can barely figure out how to be considerate of others while they are out for a goddamned walk with their dog,let alone driving a big dumb box.

I am a lifelong bicyclist...........I HATE cars.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 11:00 AM by Golf66

Originally posted by Djayed
I would think as long as you are not living a life of crime and giving the government reasons to use these tools against you, you should have nothing to worry about.

Indeed -

I can see the indoctrination programs are working as intended. I am from the government, I am here to help. Stay calm. Help is on the way - I will save you from yourself.

Only the lawbreakers want thier rights protected all good citizens are willing to cede certain rights for their safety and that of the general public.

Enjoy your future in Amerika.

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 11:14 AM by sam_inc

"White House Wants Black Boxes in Cars"!

So what about what the people want in their cars?

third line

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 11:14 AM by Rezlooper

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Rezlooper
reply to post by PsykoOps

How does it just record the seconds before a crash? Did it know you were going to crash? I believe that it will always be tracking your movements.

Well these kinds of systems have been around for awhile. They detect impacts and when airbags are deployed. It's not like there is an infinite storage capacity or wi-fi that sends the data streaming back to the evil overlords.

[Edit to add] Also you lose your right to privacy the second you crash.
edit on 9/12/2012 by PsykoOps because: add

So, if it began recording when the airbag went off, how do they determine the cause? How do they know if I swerved to miss the beloved squirrel or I just plain missed a curve because I was texting? Not understanding this yet. Sure, someone else posted it records when something abnormal happens, but if I drove straight off a curve, how would it know that was abnormal?

reply posted on 9-12-2012 @ 11:41 AM by Ghost375

You guys are upset about this? Really?
I suppose you missed the other story a while back that negates the need for this.....

Because it's legal for police to attach tracking devices onto your car that record you without your permission!!!!
Did you all forget about that story?

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