Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial`

Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial

www.telegraph.co.uk

For decades, it was one of the enduring disputes of South Africa's anti-apartheid struggle. Was Nelson Mandela, the leader of the African National Congress, really a secret Communist, as the white-only government of the time alleged? Or, as he claimed during the infamous 1963 trial that saw him jailed for life, was it simply a smear to discredit him in a world riven by Cold War tensions?

Professor Stephen Ellis, has unearthed fresh evidence that during his early years as an activist...

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
How to be a Good Communist by Nelson Mandela

Well, the Telegraph has thoughtfully put the word proven in quotes, but the gist of this is that Ellis found Communist Party meeting notes that state that Mandela was a member of the party at one time. Because prior testimony that Mandela's denial was untrue came from sources that may have been coerced or threatened to lie, Ellis notes that party meeting notes would most likely be true.

Mr Mandela made his denial of Communist Party membership in the opening statement of his Rivonia trial, when he and nine other ANC leaders were tried for 221 alleged acts of sabotage designed to overthrow the apartheid system. The defendants were also accused of furthering the aims of Communism, a movement that was then illegal in South Africa.

Addressing the court, Mr Mandela declared that he had "never been a member of the Communist Party," and that he disagreed with the movement's contempt for Western-style parliamentary democracy.

I don't know that it's all that important these days, although the 94 year old former President of South Africa is fairly well venerated, but it's interesting to see that the government may well have had a legitimate case in 1963, contrary to the claims that it was a showcase trial and Mandela was found guilty incorrectly.

ATS link above is to an old thread entitled "How to be a Good Communist, by Nelson Mandela", which includes a link to a site that purports to have a document on the subject, written by him.

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Your "legitime case" was priceless. In the apartheid era... sure...

When my country was under dictatorship... there were a lot of these legit cases too.

Did some research on this last year which was quite shocking...

Quotes such as this kept popping up every where I looked:

"Men like Nelson Mandela who are regularly featured as grandfatherly figures by the liberal media are in reality bloodthirsty terrorists, Nelson Mandela has far more in common with the thugs behind the Rwandan genocide than the heroic freedom fighter he is touted to be."
~ Matthew Heimbach

These are some of the Google search terms I used:

Mandela elders illuminati

Illuminati, richard branson

Illuminati, "The Elders"

Illuminati, "The Elders" global village global elders

Richard Branson, Illuminati, "The Elders" Nelson Mandela Tutu Project Blue Beam

"The head of the Virgin Group, Richard Branson, who is one of the highest ranking Illuminati,"

Codex Magica - 21 Mandela elders illuminati

Dance with the Illuminati | Mahala Nelson Mandela Freemason

Nelson Mandela and The Elders: A Facade for Another Masonic Lodge by Juan Sanahuja

Nelson Mandela was a 33 degree Freemason - YouTube

So what if he was?

That's neither here nor there for me-if he wanted to,with one heartfelt and sincere speech,this "great statesmen" and Nobel peace prize winner-could stop the genocide against white South African farmers.A plea from Madiba could stop the violence and murder,the grotesque atrocities.Yet,he's made no effort to bring peace or an end to genocide,though he is in a position to do so.THAT is my concern.and great dissapointment in the man.He's had a lot of time +opportunities to seriously address this critical issue-and failed to do so.Maybe not such a demi-God,after all.

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
So what if he was?

Like I said, I don't think that it really matters all that much, apart from showing a side of him that some people probably don't want to see, even if it was true.

reply to post by adjensen


And so what? It's not some grand evil thing to be a commie unless you are doing evil things. He may have showed up for a meeting, decided he didn't like it and left. Really, you can't take what the man did away from him, commie or not.

Making an entire political party illegal is immoral. With that in mind there would have never been anything legit about that case to free-thinking people.

Another Poster:

Yet,he's made no effort to bring peace or an end to genocide,though he is in a position to do so.THAT is my concern.and great dissapointment in the man.He's had a lot of time +opportunities to seriously address this critical issue-and failed to do so.Maybe not such a demi-God,after all.

He's 94 years old, his days on Earth are pretty limited. The idea that he can just wave some magic wand and make them all get a long is silly. He did his part, the rest of them can do their's now.

Originally posted by adjensen

Well, the Telegraph has thoughtfully put the word proven in quotes, but the gist of this is that Ellis found Communist Party meeting notes that state that Mandela was a member of the party at one time. Because prior testimony that Mandela's denial was untrue came from sources that may have been coerced or threatened to lie, Ellis notes that party meeting notes would most likely be true.

Mr Mandela made his denial of Communist Party membership in the opening statement of his Rivonia trial, when he and nine other ANC leaders were tried for 221 alleged acts of sabotage designed to overthrow the apartheid system. The defendants were also accused of furthering the aims of Communism, a movement that was then illegal in South Africa.

Addressing the court, Mr Mandela declared that he had "never been a member of the Communist Party," and that he disagreed with the movement's contempt for Western-style parliamentary democracy.

I don't know that it's all that important these days, although the 94 year old former President of South Africa is fairly well venerated, but it's interesting to see that the government may well have had a legitimate case in 1963, contrary to the claims that it was a showcase trial and Mandela was found guilty incorrectly.

ATS link above is to an old thread entitled "How to be a Good Communist, by Nelson Mandela", which includes a link to a site that purports to have a document on the subject, written by him.

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 8-12-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Implying that communism equals some sort of criminality in some way ...


I suppose that people today still think like they did back in the 60's.

Originally posted by adjensen

Well, the Telegraph has thoughtfully put the word proven in quotes, but the gist of this is that Ellis found Communist Party meeting notes that state that Mandela was a member of the party at one time.

"Was a member at one time."

Is it possible that the behavior and ideals of Mandela after this experience don't deserve such a menial association of 'communism"? The McCarthy era should stay where it was and it should be noted that in order to take responsibility, either in a micro or macro situation, that many ideals/topics/possibilities should be considered.

All the ass covering the media did for him, and how they promoted him, knowing what they was saying was pure propagandistic bull crap.

The communist media ready to serve for the furthering of the cause, to get one of their own into a position of power to affect the change THEY want.

All to implement a totally F’ed up world view. A true revolutionary, so to speak.

Sound familiar huh??????

Sounds like the current asshat in chief we have.

If you can’t understand how it is of any importance, then you are either part of the willing participants, or you are already beyond help.

Like another poster posted previously, So what????

Plenty of people where I live belongs to the communistic party, the Red Party. Nothing wrong with that. They believe in their ideals, as much as you believe in yours. They have a right to believe what they believe, it is called in a democratic country "Freedom of Expression", As much as you are allowed to have your freedom of expression so much a person belonging to the communist party also have the freedom of expression.

Freedom of expression is one of the fundamentals, if not the most important fundament of a democratic society, and if you, or your goverment doesn't believe in that, then, sorry, you are not a democracy.

reply to post by MemoryShock


You're missing the point, as are a few others -- this has nothing to do with the merits of the Communist Party of South Africa (though if you research their history, you might not be quite the apologist that you are) -- it is about Mandela swearing up and down at his trial that he was not a member of that party, and this new evidence which indicates that he was lying.

If Ronald Reagan was discovered to have been a member of the John Birch Society, do you not think that would be news, given that he'd denied being a member in 1966?

reply to post by adjensen


what would you have done???? Membership of the communistic party in that era carried the death penalty in SA.

reply to post by Hellhound604


And there was a dang good reason for that death penalty too.
And there still should be a death penalty for it.

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by adjensen

 

what would you have done???? Membership of the communistic party in that era carried the death penalty in SA.

What would I have done? I dunno, probably not joined an organization that being a member of could get you killed?

As many have pointed out. None of this story is proven to be true.

It is based on the allegations of a self-proclaimed historian who is trying to make a buck off of a historical figure.

This is no better than celebrity gossip. Someone calls a number in the UK, claims to have seen this or that about a celeb. The Sun prints it and next day, American rag magazines cite a source in the UK.

I have no doubt that there is a tremendous amount of propaganda, which exists to justify Mandela's incarceration.

Not too much ignorance denial occurring with this story.

This is an interesting story. I don't know all that much about Mandela. I would imagine that in places where capitalism has resulted in mass suffering, the incidence of alternative ideologies would be high.

reply to post by adjensen


Except this isn't proof he was communist. Either way, he was never shy about his connection with communists as they struggled against Apartheid for 40 years. If he was a true Commie then why did SA go for a democratic government? He used their resources, but that doesn't mean he shared their beliefs. The old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" bit.

Someone Else:

And there was a dang good reason for that death penalty too. And there still should be a death penalty for it.

How disgusting, yea let's just kill everyone who has beliefs we don't like.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by adjensen

Well, the Telegraph has thoughtfully put the word proven in quotes, but the gist of this is that Ellis found Communist Party meeting notes that state that Mandela was a member of the party at one time.

"Was a member at one time."

Is it possible that the behavior and ideals of Mandela after this experience don't deserve such a menial association of 'communism"? The McCarthy era should stay where it was and it should be noted that in order to take responsibility, either in a micro or macro situation, that many ideals/topics/possibilities should be considered.

edit on Sat, 08 Dec 2012 19:15:34 -0600 by MemoryShock because: Edit to add - "Menial association", in my mind, is menial because of the connotation of the term 'communism' rather than the ideological definition...which isn't bad when considered. But the ideology is rarely the application...

Just because you brought it up, McCarthy was subsequently proven right. So not the best comparison.