Hamas Can Never be a Peace Partner

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posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


If Muslim Extremists are operating in Syria, why the hell is anyone sending aid, weapons, money or any other source? The revolution has been hijacked yet the west continues to support the fighters regardless of what group they are affiliated with.




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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Whom thinks that? Hamas gained more traction and was about to leave Fatah in the dust, which has been kinda saved by the UN vote.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by Deetermined
 


If Muslim Extremists are operating in Syria, why the hell is anyone sending aid, weapons, money or any other source? The revolution has been hijacked yet the west continues to support the fighters regardless of what group they are affiliated with.


If you read it again, it says "humanitarian aid".

As for why the MSM keeps talking about our support for the Free Syrian Army, even after it's been hijacked, is because the Obama administration can't afford for everyone to know the truth. The truth is that we're losing the war on terror and the killing of Osama Bin Laden and all of the other Al Qaeda leaders we've been killing over the last four years means nothing now. Obama can't afford to take that kind of hit in the press right before he's inaugurated back in.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
If you read it again, it says "humanitarian aid".

As for why the MSM keeps talking about our support for the Free Syrian Army, even after it's been hijacked, is because the Obama administration can't afford for everyone to know the truth. The truth is that we're losing the war on terror and the killing of Osama Bin Laden and all of the other Al Qaeda leaders we've been killing over the last four years means nothing now. Obama can't afford to take that kind of hit in the press right before he's inaugurated back in.


I'm sure another 3000 Syrians don't want to become statistics either up until that time. As for the war on terror, your not losing it.. Yous are creating it along with your buddies from the ME. Yous have turned from Zero tolerance towards terrorism to lets openly support them within the space of 2 years. Sorry, your government has...

Humanitarian aid is a joke, isn't it? Seriously, show me where this humanitarian aid is...



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by DarknStormy
 





As for the war on terror, your not losing it.. Yous are creating it along with your buddies from the ME.


Yeah, right. We started the entire "Arab Spring" and every uprising in the Middle East according to you.

I say that we made the mistake of trying to assist nations into becoming democratic and it backfired on us while we got used as a tool by Muslim extremists to help them in their efforts of spreading "political Islam" instead. The U.S. has woken up to that game and they're trying to turn it around. Unfortunately, it's probably too late.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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The extremists operating in Syria are few. They are neither backed by FSA or gulf states govt. Those extremists are funded by private entities masqurading as charity foundations for poor arab kids.

As these extremists are few and idealogy false, they can never hope to gain traction with the majority of FSA elements whom are currently consolidating to come under unified command. Nor are these extremists a match for the combined elements of FSA when the war is won.

The extremists will have options given to them - either toe the line under FSA command, or leave Syria in peace. The alternative will be the capture of them to face trial for treason or apostacy to Islam.

The fight ultimately belongs to the free syrian people, as freedom cannot be bestowed freely upon by others, but won by the blood of citizens so that all and future generations will treasure and protect those freedoms won,not take them for granted.

The rest of the world had kept up its promise of support and aid, including even to more than a million syrian refugees scattered to neighbouring countries - their loved ones whom the fighters are fighting for.

It is now up to the free syrian people to meet and make its national destiny.


In anycase, this thread is about the terrorist extremist group Hamas, and not about the fight in Syria, which is as different as chalk and cheese, no matter how one attempts to bend minds over it. Let's not derail it.
edit on 10-12-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by coolieno99
 


The catholic church does not represent true christians,
in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





In anycase, this thread is about the terrorist extremist group Hamas, and not about the fight in Syria, which is as different as chalk and cheese, no matter how one attempts to bend minds over it. Let's not derail it.


Not the case. There are militant groups in Syria that were created by Hamas after I did some extensive research on their names. There are 13 different militant groups in Aleppo, Syria alone. You can't rule out the fact that Qatar is playing a huge part in this fight in Syria and Hamas' headquarters now resides there after having moved from Damascus. Hamas is playing a huge role in Syria still. Don't forget, that is where their headquarters has been for years. Hamas' role is not limited to Gaza. Hamas is also playing a large role in the ongoing attacks in Iraq too, that never seem to end. Never underestimate the extensive reaches and presence of these extremists. Just because you don't hear about them every day doesn't mean that they are not there.



edit on 10-12-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Hamas is the 20+years old offspring of the Muslim Brotherhood which was set up back in 20s', and had been dogs of the Persian apostate infidel leader in Iran. They were guests of HumanSlayer Assad, another dog of the persian apostate.

But with the beast assad slaughtering of sunnis in syrias, Hamas - a sunni group that had gone apostate, were quick to distance themselves from the Shia apostates. So too did the Muslim Brotherhood, as it would not look good to the sunni majority worldwide if they supported the slaughtering of sunni in Syria.

Hamas are but only dogs in the scheme of bigger issues, and now are back in Gaza. Iraq is a warzone now being fought clandestantly between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Persian apostate infidel leader in Iran. Hamas is way out of its league today where Iraq is concerned, nor even needed.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Hamas are but only dogs in the scheme of bigger issues, and now are back in Gaza. Iraq is a warzone now being fought clandestantly between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Persian apostate infidel leader in Iran. Hamas is way out of its league today where Iraq is concerned, nor even needed.


You may think that Hamas are but mere dogs in the bigger scheme, but Al Qaeda has their back right now and will continue to do so as long they keep up the rhetoric like Mashaal has been spewing.

All of these militant groups are working together right now in order to spread "political Islam" whether it's Al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas or Islamic Jihad and all of them can be found in both Iraq and Syria right now. The Muslim Brotherhood is just doing a better job of "appearing" less extreme and hidden for the time being.

As for Islamic Jihad, they are extreme and an offshoot of Al Qaeda, but you hardly ever hear about them and realize the role they are playing throughout the Middle East. Some have just been arrested for their roles in Benghazi and for stirring up the riots in Egypt over the lame Muslim video. If all hell breaks out in Egypt again, you can bet that the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood will be hiding behind and pointing fingers at Islamic Jihad, while they secretly work together to accomplish Morsi's goals in Egypt.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Yeah, right. We started the entire "Arab Spring" and every uprising in the Middle East according to you.


I haven't said that... I'm saying your country is funding extremists in Syria, most likely funded them in Libya and has a track record of funding todays known terrorist organisations in the past.


I say that we made the mistake of trying to assist nations into becoming democratic and it backfired on us while we got used as a tool by Muslim extremists to help them in their efforts of spreading "political Islam" instead. The U.S. has woken up to that game and they're trying to turn it around. Unfortunately, it's probably too late.


It wasn't a mistake but some genius thought it would be a great idea to destroy countries along with it. Now we have a situation where extremists are possibly going to be controlling countries and with that, have access to WMD's. Not long ago, the biggest issue on the planet was those extremists gaining access to those types of weapons. All of a sudden, its not a big deal.. The money is still flowing whether the US is on the outer or not.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


The muslim brotherhood's violent regressive idealogy is open, transparant and for all to see. Such organisations are only as strong as the amount of brain dead canon fodder they can find to fill the ranks, and fools whom will part with their salary to donate to supposed charities for the poor which only ends up in their coffers as funds to slaughter innocents.

Every arab and muslim nation has a franchise, but loosely affiliated with the MB, and known by many other names. Typical arab istighna behaviour prevents true unity and control except for violence.

However, no matter where they are, they will eventually fail, as 7th century regressive authoritarian religious laws will not allow a nation and its citizens to prosper economically, nor will today's modern societies accept the yoke of slavery ever again except for ignorant fools.

The MB will fail when the seek to use their version of Islam and sharia law for the economy. It will work only if it is self sufficient, but it is not, espacially when they squandered the oil wealth given and now with a world less dependent on them. Interacting with the world will cause them to break their sharia laws, and many of their ministers and civil servants get thrown into jails or have their body parts removed.

Islam was never meant to remain stagnant, but to evolve with the times by following the moral and ethical guidelines as envisioned by the prophet. Unfortunately, greedy men only interpretated Islam the way that they want it to ensure their own power and not Allah's.

MB and Salufism will end eventually as more of muslims get educated in our interconnected world. True muslims are religious people, but they too need to eat and live, which the prophet was aware of and did provided so during his time in Medan, but today it is not something the MB cares about except to offer violent death.

Equally so with Hamas, who gives hypocritical lip service, cares nothing about the economy or its people in Gaza, except to be canon fodder, against the very grains of the teachings of the prophet and Islam.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

The extremists will have options given to them - either toe the line under FSA command, or leave Syria in peace. The alternative will be the capture of them to face trial for treason or apostacy to Islam.


And I guess you actually believe that also?



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





Islam was never meant to remain stagnant, but to evolve with the times by following the moral and ethical guidelines as envisioned by the prophet. Unfortunately, greedy men only interpretated Islam the way that they want it to ensure their own power and not Allah's.

MB and Salufism will end eventually as more of muslims get educated in our interconnected world.


Such is the state of the whole world today, Seeker.

However, unlike you, I don't have high hopes that anyone is going to advance in education from any culture before it's all over. We were all probably better off not being so "interconnected".



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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This is pretty much everything in a nutshell. Sure Israel isn't being a great occupier, but how do you negotiate with someone (Hamas) who wants to totally eliminate you as a State? The best Hamas has ever offered is a 30 year "truce" with Israel......what exactly happens after that truce if you are Israel?

Both sides need leadership that will reach that grand compromise that really brings peace. Until each side unequivocally announces the other side's right to exist in peace within secure borders, nothing will happen. That is a starting point. Hamas has to give up the "we will conquer all of Israel" talk and directly acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State in the 67 borders if it wants to be considered a partner for peace talks. Till they do that, they are just irrelevant. Israel will not negotiate with someone who wants to utterly destroy it.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Without hope there will be no meaning in life.

There is indeed hope. Look at what is happening in Egypt today. The MB is not getting their way handed on a silver platter now. As long as there is still a voice that cries out, change will come, as it came for mankind since the dawn of civilisation that had led to our progress and evolution today, and for years to come.

The MB may still win, but in the long run, it will fail as other despots had failed. The despot in Persia isnt sitting as comfortably as before. Hamas too, will face reality soon. Either they change, or the juggarnaut of change will hit them like a deer caught on a railtrack.

Sometimes, it is good to give power to those who foolishly think they are the best for it, and then sit back, and watch them fail through their beliefs and policies, more so when you know the realities of what will happen soon. Hitting one's head onto the wall by themselves is the best lesson for all to see and know.

This was and is how flawed mankind progress - by making mistakes, often unnecessarily and sadly - at great costs to precious human lives. Only then will they learn to avoid such mistakes again inorder to progress



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."


Sounds about right considering Israel is occupying stolen land.

It's odd how many people are blindly brainwashed by Zionist propaganda.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by snapperski
 





Agreed Hamas is loathsome, but so is Netanyahu Likud party. Both have right wing extremist Idologies.


Don't you think it's Hamas' extremism and the likelihood of them winning a majority in a new Palestinian state that motivates Likud's refusal to stop building settlements?

Think of it from both sides. This isn't a game. If Israel plays by Hamas' rules, that could turn into a second holocaust for them.


But you always take one side of the argument, Dontreally. That's why you're on my rivals list. Both sides are in the wrong.

Why can't you admit that Israel is just as bad, if not worse? Yes, Hamas commits violations of human rights and they aren't innocent at all. But...so...does...Israel, with more deadly munitions, funded by Joe Taxpayer.

I just want to see you admit that Israel is just as bad or to tell everyone why you're really here. I'm not assuming anything with that last sentence; I'm genuinly confused.

Mods: that's an honest question and my intentions are not to intimidate. I just want to know why dontreally only believes one side.

Lima-1, out.
edit on 10-12-2012 by OperationIraqiFailure because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
This thread is dedicated to those credulous believers who think Hamas has "evolved" into a potential peace partner.


GAZA - Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, making his first ever visit to the Gaza Strip, vowed on Saturday never to recognize Israel and said his Islamist group would never abandon its claim to all Israeli territory.

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he told a sea of supporters at an open-air rally marking the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas and a celebration of the organization's "victory" over Israel.


If this doesn't make you shut up and retract your opinion, I don't know what will. Not only does the Hamas charter promote a religious hatred of Jews, not only does Hamas' Al Quds TV (which is a state propaganda device) train its citizens to hate Jews, but they say over and over again in mass rallies: NO TO PEACE! NO TO COMPROMISE!

In short, NO TO HAMAS!!!

They are an impossible candidate to make peace with Israel. Their religious fanaticism forbids it.

As I've said time and again, a utilitarian rationalism appears to be a necessary underpinning for political pragmatism. A religious politics is informed by religion: not utilitarianism. It is not led into true compromise for the sake of peace, but rather, uses peace to advance it's religious interests. This is called a "hudna" or a truce, in Islamic parlance. Not a permanent solution, but a breather, a time period in which the weakened Muslim group can regather itself for another round.


"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."



Laying out his hopes for future triumphant visits, Mashaal told cheering crowds, "Today is Gaza. Tomorrow will be Ramallah and after that Jerusalem, then Haifa and Jaffa," Ma'an News Agency reported.


Link

I'm open to suggestions. What is Israel to do about Hamas?
edit on 8-12-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)


This is simply the most ridiculously false statement I have ever heard in my life.

Read this book...and then come back when you know and understand a little bit about the history of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355182188&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gun+and+the+olive+b ranch



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by OperationIraqiFailure

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by snapperski
 





Agreed Hamas is loathsome, but so is Netanyahu Likud party. Both have right wing extremist Idologies.


Don't you think it's Hamas' extremism and the likelihood of them winning a majority in a new Palestinian state that motivates Likud's refusal to stop building settlements?

Think of it from both sides. This isn't a game. If Israel plays by Hamas' rules, that could turn into a second holocaust for them.


But you always take one side of the argument, Dontreally. That's why you're on my rivals list. Both sides are in the wrong.

Why can't you admit that Israel is just as bad, if not worse? Yes, Hamas commits violations of human rights and they aren't innocent at all. But...so...does...Israel, with more deadly munitions, funded by Joe Taxpayer.

I just want to see you admit that Israel is just as bad or to tell everyone why you're really here. I'm not assuming anything with that last sentence; I'm genuinly confused.

Mods: that's an honest question and my intentions are not to intimidate. I just want to know why dontreally only believes one side.

Lima-1, out.
edit on 10-12-2012 by OperationIraqiFailure because: (no reason given)


Palestine and Hamas behaves the exact same way I would if the Chinese and Russians decided to give my house in Wisconsin to a Hutu refugee without giving me any say in it whatsoever and just told me I should "go somewhere else".

Furthermore...I find it highly improbable that every single American on these threads wouldn't behave a whole lot like Hamas and Palestine under those circumstances.

In order to view the Palestinians as the "bad guys" you would have to be able to watch the movie "Red Dawn" and root for the Russians. It's the same damn thing.





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