Doha climate talks: US faces dilemma over final text

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posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Doha climate talks: US faces dilemma over final text


www.bbc.co.uk

There has been a historic shift in the UN climate talks in Qatar, with the prospect of rich nations having to compensate poor nations for losses due to climate change.

The US has fiercely opposed the measure - it says the cost could be unlimited.

...The political stakes are high. ...

The US will be seeking support from other big polluters - like Canada - likely to face liability for climate damages.

If the US is left alone fighting against the chair's text, its negotiators face a dilemma...
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Once again, the weak are standing up against the strong. Interesting trend.

US and Canadian laws focus on protecting private property - lawbreakers who step outside their own class to vandalize or commit fraud face penalties greater than they would for physically harming a lower class person.

Leaving aside the "denial arguments," do laws protecting property extend beyond national borders?







www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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This isn't about climate change, it is about the redistribution of wealth.

Don't be fooled.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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What is America complaining about? Considering its debt and this fiscal cliff stuff America must be the poorest nation around, it is just not acting like it as the debt continues to mount.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


The pollutors should pay for their damage. If the USA is the worst culprit then they should pay the most. Why the heck should the rest of the world pay for a nations greed and neglect towards the earth.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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You guys heard of Asia before? Them some pollutin' sons of guns.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Let's get real.

Much of production as well as the mining of environmental harmful resources had now been OUTSOURCED to poor nations, under the financial partnerships and lucrative shares held by rich and tech advanced western PRIVATE entities.

To sign that deal would mean once again americans be made to socialise debts of the rich while the rich overseas privatise profits, along with their 3rd world partners who don't give a damn to their own people except their own wallets.

USA will always help poor nations, as it had done since its founding, more than any other nation on Earth.

Americans, like any other civilised human, have no wish to take others for granted, nor had it done so. HOWEVER, it does not wish to be taken for granted by others as well.

If others are not happy with this american stance, all I can say is 'deal with it'. The time for sponging off americans is over. High time other nations LOOK into their own actions and take responsibilities for them, instead of blaming others.

It is hubric for mankind to think that it can affect global climate change. Whatever mankind does, it only contributes to a negligible est. 5% of TOTAL CLIMATE CHANGE.

More critically is for mankind to acknowledge that climate change had happened, and IS NOT an act of man, but by nature. And to find ways to ADAPT to such changes as our ancestors had with the many climate changes that had happened since the dawn of civilisation.

Adaptation such as sensors and monitoring equipment for early warnings on weather patterns that disrupt agriculture industrys and population evacuations, better and faster medical products/services to deal with the change, weather resistance crops and industrial outputs, govt honest regulation of industrial wastes, laymen to deal intelligently with the changes programmes, etc, etc.

As said, let's get real and deal with realities, and not fantasy blame games. Every national leader is responsible for their own citizens, and not hope for largesse to be fritted away corruptively as done in the past.
edit on 8-12-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by sputniksteve
You guys heard of Asia before? Them some pollutin' sons of guns.


Yes they are big polluters about the same amount as the USA. The difference being the US is about 5% of the worlds population and China is about 20%...



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





USA will always help poor nations, as it had done since its founding, more than any other nation on Earth.


Rubbish. The US gives more money to Israel than the whole of Africa together.....



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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Apply the tax to the products at the retail level that are produced. This way the consumer pays for his wasteful ways. Oh. that's right, that might effect our present form of capitalism in a negative way.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





USA will always help poor nations, as it had done since its founding, more than any other nation on Earth.


Rubbish. The US gives more money to Israel than the whole of Africa together.....


The US gives $30 billion in development aid to poor countries. Who gives more? I will wait for your answer.
www.oecd.org...



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by sputniksteve
You guys heard of Asia before? Them some pollutin' sons of guns.


Yes they are big polluters about the same amount as the USA. The difference being the US is about 5% of the worlds population and China is about 20%...


Here are the most polluted places on Earth. China and Russia are half the list. No place in the US is on it.
www.livescience.com...

Worlds worst air quality. China is all over the list, no where in the US is on it.
www.dailyfinance.com...

China is the worst polluter in the world. Sorry. US is number 2, but China is just ramping up. At least the US is taking steps to curb pollution.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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rich compensate poor ?

it should be polluters compensate the clean countries regardless

but I'm sure china isn't even involved in this Doha deal so it's a joke anyway

and how do you prove it ? I believe in AGW as a trend, but storms can be influenced more by ocean currents and the jetstream so how do you get your money ?



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Go and read my statement again.I said polluters. Not polluted.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





The US gives $30 billion in development aid to poor countries. Who gives more? I will wait for your answer.


Europe gives far more than the USA.


Europeans more than pull their weight in aid to developing countries. Last year Europeans provided more than €60 billion ($80bn) in aid, more than two and a half times as much as the United States.


blogs.cgdev.org...


Official Development Assistance by country as a percentage of Gross National Income in 2009 (April 2010)
In this list the US falls in 19th place...


`Sweden – 1.45% Norway – 1.06% Luxembourg – 1.04% Denmark – 0.88% Netherlands – 0.82% Belgium – 0.55% Finland – 0.54% Ireland – 0.54% United Kingdom – 0.52% France- 0.47% Spain – 0.46% Switzerland – 0.45% Germany – 0.35% Canada – 0.30% Austria – 0.30% Australia – 0.29% New Zealand – 0.28% Portugal – 0.23% United States – 0.21%


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by purplemer
 

hmmmm, still haven't learned to read those charts correctly ??
or just misrepresenting the info on purpose ?

the ODA contributions do NOT include private donations and it even says so ... [color=amber] Thus, by definition, ODA does not include private donations.

and, in the same article you linked ... here's the truth of the matter

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the countries giving the highest amounts of money (in absolute terms) are as follows:

1. United States – $28.67 billion
2. France – $12.43 billion
3. Germany – $11.98 billion
4. United Kingdom – $11.50 billion
5. Japan – $9.48 billion
6. Spain – $6.57 billion
7. Netherlands – $6.43 billion
8. Sweden – $4.55 billion
9. Norway – $4.09 billion
10. Canada – $4.01 billion

and, the article also states ... "Note that the European Union is by far the largest contributer with $80,655 billion out of world $120 billion."

considering the EU consists of multiple countries, what's wrong with that ??



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 





considering the EU consists of multiple countries, what's wrong with that


The EU is made of muliple states in the same way the USA is made of multiple states.. What is wrong with that...



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Honor93
 





considering the EU consists of multiple countries, what's wrong with that


The EU is made of muliple states in the same way the USA is made of multiple states.. What is wrong with that...
actually, that's not true and you know it.
members of the EU are not states, they are independent nations that are called states.
besides, i didn't say anything was wrong with it, why are you?

i stated you misrepresented the info in the link you provided.
it has been corrected, so what's you point ?



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





The US gives $30 billion in development aid to poor countries. Who gives more? I will wait for your answer.


Europe gives far more than the USA.


Europeans more than pull their weight in aid to developing countries. Last year Europeans provided more than €60 billion ($80bn) in aid, more than two and a half times as much as the United States.


blogs.cgdev.org...


Official Development Assistance by country as a percentage of Gross National Income in 2009 (April 2010)
In this list the US falls in 19th place...


`Sweden – 1.45% Norway – 1.06% Luxembourg – 1.04% Denmark – 0.88% Netherlands – 0.82% Belgium – 0.55% Finland – 0.54% Ireland – 0.54% United Kingdom – 0.52% France- 0.47% Spain – 0.46% Switzerland – 0.45% Germany – 0.35% Canada – 0.30% Austria – 0.30% Australia – 0.29% New Zealand – 0.28% Portugal – 0.23% United States – 0.21%


en.wikipedia.org...


When did Europe become a country? Oh, that's right, it didn't. So you did a good job trying to twist things around, but you still failed. The US gave more than any other country. I will wait for you to find a COUNTRY, not a continent, that did more.





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