Russia arms Syria with powerful ballistic missiles: U.S. and Russia face off near Syrian border, page 6

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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Globalsecurity.org is decent the other ones seem OK to me.
Confirming whether or not Syria actually has the Iskander-E is difficult.

A report by Haim Rosenberg, a former Israeli defense official, said the Iskander-E rocket, known in the West as SS-26, would mark a significant improvement of most Middle East militaries.

Syria, the UAE, Malaysia, India and some other countries have shown an interest in the missile system," said Rosoboronexport official Nikolai Dimidyuk. Russia will also seek to export the Iskander-E to Algeria, Kuwait, Singapore, Vietnam, and South Korea, he added.

Some things may seem a bit suspect but that's as good as your going to get with this stuff, make up your own mind.

To me it's clear Syria have shown an interest in this weapon and Russia are willing to sell an export version, the only question is have they taken delivery yet, I'd say they probably have.

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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I'm missing your point? One of your links is nothing but a tech spec sheet for the missile system itself at Global Security.

If the lack of a specific name on the by-line of reporting or fact presentation in military technology is a bother...then you're in for a loooong road in political debate I'd say. I've found the lack of a byline to a specific named individual to be the norm, not the exception when on this area of material. Odd that you'd mention it in terms of being proof of ..what? A conspiracy?

Thats the part I'm missing... What is the conspiracy? That Syria has them? That Russia sold them? That they exist at all (spec sheet included??). Odd..... These aren't even what I'm most worried about anyway. The latest gen. S-300's pose far more concern in my mind. We can't beat what we can't stomp from the air in a matter of a day or two.....losing or even stumbling on an air campaign would be disastrous with the lack of depth to follow-up forces. Bad Bad thing here...but I don't doubt the facts of the missile system and it's delivery to Syria. Some things are just simple facts of the events we see, IMO.

The Rosoboronexport Land Forces Weapons Export Catalogue.

I see you can order the Iskander-E missile system among other things.

www.scribd.com...

This Catalogue has been prepared by the Rosoboronexport’s Land Forces Department and Media & PR Service with valuable support of Russian defence enterprises. Additional information on the equipment described within can be requested at the Rosoboronexport central office and its representations abroad.

Buy in bulk and get a discount. All deals would be strictly confidential no doubt. There is a lot of hardware in this catalogue it really is quite interesting. Even trusted sources have trouble trying to find out what certain countries actually have. Remember the WMDs in Iraq? Even the massive US intelligence system couldn't get that right, now there's room for some conspiracy talk. Dick Cheney Haliburton anyone?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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My point is, every single one of the websites that claim Russia has given this missile to Syria does not include an author of the articles.

That every website that I just covered and proposed questions to are not credible.

That this may be a rather complex disinformation campaign, maybe.

That's why I asked the questions I did... because they can not be answered. Why can't my questions be answered? Why would this be the case in regards to such claims?

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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Hmm... Okay, well I do appreciate the reply. I had a feeling you were saying Global Security wasn't credible for information, I just wanted to make sure. I've always looked at them as a type of Janes International without paying the high dollars for the priv. of having the basic info, personally.

I suppose there could be a big conspiracy to suggest missiles were sold when they weren't..but to what benefit? Even the Rebels sliming rabbits isn't getting anyone to move an inch here. No new talk of missiles will get someone to take the first shot, I'm thinking. When the balloon goes up, we'll know if these are launched in the opening minutes and hours.

It's almost maddening to watch this dance between nations and major power figures over there. Absolutely no one ...but NO ONE ...wants to be known as the 'man who started World War III'. However, you can see that everyone is lined up ...with everything they have...ready to fight for the right to be 'the man who ENDED World War III'.

So I'd just wonder why they'd bother with the effort to stage an elaborate conspiracy when Syria is a client state and Russia is known to just sell stuff like this to them because they asked for it. Has been for 30 years. Just my thoughts...although who knows right now? Truth has left the building for the duration, to be sure.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Thats the part I'm missing... What is the conspiracy? That Syria has them? That Russia sold them?

You don't see a tactic in placing news that the Syrian government has received a missile that could possibly 'up the ante',

It's already accepted that Syria and Russia have the relationship that they do. But what is not accepted, is the capabilities of Syria and what arms they do in fact have. So, then what would be the motive behind spreading a false story that suggests Russia is sending ballistic missiles to Syria in response to actions taken by the UN and Turkey?

I'm asking... I'm not going to spell it out lol.

Why would North Korea test a rocket just before an election in S, Korea? Even MSM has covered the tactics behind this propaganda.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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The United States has tried to reconsider the Missile Technology Control Regime and here arises the question whether this may be an obstacle for the sale of the new missile abroad. Such missile systems as Iskander have a special place in the world weapons market. Even a small amount of such missiles drastically changes the balance of force in conflicts.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Does this provide further clarification as to why these claims may be used as propaganda?

The difference with globalsecurity.org is... they are not claiming that this has already been done. It suggests that it's a possibility... not that it in fact has already taken place. big difference



It's would be just like if a month ago claims were made that Turkey had received Patriot missiles, even though they had not. It's just silly.

But what we have here... are multiple sites, non credible... all saying the same thing.

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...

^^^ This is how it's done

thejamesrwhelanagency.com...

This is a means of sourcing who 'really' owns and runs globalsecurity

this is the difference

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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We're just seeing this totally different. This kinda of speculation mattered when it was Iraq in '91. It mattered a lot on the shoe string approach to Afghanistan's capabilities in 2001 and again...Iraq in 2003. It mattered in those places because they are all we faced or would fight. Just their nations and militaries. No one else was in a position ... cared to ...or realistically would intervene to widen the fight or make it anything beyond what those specific nations held for systems.

That's all over now and we're past the little fights and petty games. For those of us who lived to see it, 1991 and the Terror wars have been the last of the wars I think come without Earth changing consequence for a while. The easy pickings are picked and the low hanging fruit is gone. Now we're down to the strongholds...like Syria and Iran. It's the end game...all the way around.

Why I don't think propaganda matters is that whether Syria has 1 or 100 of these...or whether they just have the last batch of cutting edge missiles Russia delivered won't likely mean much. When Turkey gets into the fight, Russia may well jump directly in with Russian flagged forces involved. We'll see how it goes.....but Turkey is NATO is the United States. This really is as high as this game can now get.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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These sources are not speculating... they are directly claiming that Syria received the weapons.

Granted... in the end of the day, government agencies use different mediums to derive their information.

But what about the public? Well... online.

Who is propaganda generally aimed at? The public...

Why is propaganda generally used? To gain support...

I'm not claiming that this little disinformation campaign will have any success. It's the fact that it's happening.

You know how easy it is to create 10 websites, make them look official... and place the same story in all of them to make a particular claim seem credible? Actually... if you do know the answer to this.. lol.

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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Fly by night websites? I'd tend to agree with your point about propaganda campaigns and how easy it is. Much of the FSA, for example, just kinda "came to be" in the last 6 months in particular. However, I do check out what I commonly source and GS is a place I do source often enough on things...

Source

They are definitely not a recent creation or a place I'd see really invested in risking reputations and commercial viability over this issue. By the location and such..I'd also wonder how clear vs. blurry the line may be for Gov't vs. Private. Just my cynical side though. lol.... I figured the public info for context on Global Security was worth sharing though since I'm not alone at ATS for sourcing thread material in part on what they have for specs and general info stuff.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Admittedly, I'm not all that internet literate... Would you be able to locate the IP of the sources in question?

Then do a search as to their origins?

I never questioned globalsecurity because just like you showed... and the links that I provided... they aren't hiding anything in regards to who is running the show.

From what I've been able to find(or not find)... when searching for the same information from the sites in question... no luck.

I'm not claiming 'conspiracy'... but that shoe sure is looking good on that foot .

reply to post by intrptr

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Actually Syria has invaded Israel in the past and furthered that cause by feeding Hamas, so they are not innocent of meddling.

Russia has no teeth other than nukes to bring to the table. In a conventional war the USA could wipe Russia and China collectively with one arm tied behind their back as things are now.

If the country goes broke....maybe not.

There are a lot of countries that really want Assad to use chem weps....even if it means making it look like he did. Humans are predictable animals aren't they?

Oh wait... I forgot I did find some information about one of the sources...

This makes absolutely no sense to me:

www.sgi-usa.org...

That is a link to the org that supports the world-tribune website.

SGI-USA is just about the last site I would expect to spread disinformation. So that must mean that they are all good and this is just a mistake.

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

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You may well be right on some of that and I suppose the important point is...it's all kinda moot, because TPTB are beyond the point in this process where they care what we think either way. We can be for it or we can be against it and all that changes are the approaches taken by the media to encourage or discourage the public's general trend.

Within an hour or so of open war breaking out, we'll all know if these missiles exist and so will a few million others in the cities they land in or who don't get incoming warheads. I don't expect any of the multiple sides will hold anything back when it starts for real. Who knows...we may just see it before Christmas at this rate. I hope those who've wanted to kill Assad for almost 2 years now figure the regional conflagration this may well blow into is worth that one goal. At least Assad was stable for the last few decades. Oh well..... No one likely has long to wonder now, no matter what the rumors and stories may be.

Originally posted by intrptr
..... The UK and France are seeking to lift the blockade for arms shipments to the insurgency in Syria across its borders with neighboring countries. ....

This will produced unintended consequences. The real rebel leaders and the best rebel fighters are the Islamists.

Note that these rebel fighters are giving the Nazi salute.

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