Christians and Israel - being yoked with unbelievers.

I'll be blunt. Many Christians have yoked themselves with unbelievers because of their support of the anti-Christian state of Israel and the Jews. Yes, I know I quoted Paul, but its the plain truth.

Many, if not all, Christians today are staunch supporters of Israel and the Jewish people, for reasons they will justify with various scriptures. Of course, one reason is because Israel holds immense prophetic value to Christians and is in line with their rather Israel-centric interpretations of prophecy. However, was Christian interpretation of prophecy always in favor of Israel? Or was it a more recent phenomenon?

History shows us that the Christians had distanced from the Jews and that things weren't always so rosy between Christians and Jews. For a long time, it was a widely held belief that the church had replaced Israel. (See). It could be said that the early Christian establishment was basically anti-Jewish. I won't get into the details here, but I'll leave you with a starting point for your own research to verify for yourselves.
source 1
source 2

More information is easily available, just google "christian+anti-semitism". Once you are done familiarizing yourself with Christianity's dark history of anti-semitism, you might be wondering how and why many Christians today have come to "love" the Jews and the Israeli state.


An early example of Christian hatred for Jews : In 638 AD the Muslims who entered Jerusalem under Umar were shocked to find that the Christians had turned the holy site of the temple mount into a garbage dump, mainly in an attempt to humiliate the Jews, who were accused of having killed Jesus. It was the Muslims who cleaned up the temple mount and lifted the Christian ban on Jews and allowed them to return and live.

Its also known that during the crusades, the Jews fought alongside the Muslims during the siege of Jerusalem in 1099.... and that the Jews preferred Islamic rule over Christian rule. So going back in time, we see that things were very different with regard to the relationship between Christians and Jews.



How Christian interpretation of prophecy changed over time
Today its blindly assumed that Christianity has always been supportive of Jews and that prophecy was always interpreted in favor of the Jews, the same way as its done today. But where did this very idea come from? The bible? The truth is that Christian support for the Jews and a Jewish state is a relatively new phenomenon, dating back only to a 19th century Christian movement calling for the Restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land

After World War 2, when the state of Israel was finally established in 1948, it not only changed maps, but also the mindsets of many Christians with regard to prophecy. It paved the way for a bizarre belief system known as Christian Zionism. , who's adherents fanatically support the Israeli state, because they see it as a sign that they are a step closer to witness the Messiahs return.

The establishment of the new Jewish state in the middle east prompted new trends in prophetic interpretation, that for some mysterious reason, favored Jews and their state in the middle east. New ideas on prophetic interpretation began to evolve over the next few decades, thus shaping Christian interpretation of prophecy. Its present form holds ideas such as :
- The Jewish state of Israel was prophesied to be restored
- 1948 was the year of its fulfillment.
- Jews from all over the world would be gathered to the newly founded state.
- Jews are the chosen people and are the sole recipients of Abrahams blessing.
- Israel will win all its wars, including Armageddon.
- Israel will miraculously accept Jesus be redeemed.
- Israel will be saved from destruction.
... etc.

All these ideas are parroted on various websites, forums, youtube videos etc. and are evident of an extreme pro-Israel mentality among many Christians. They operate on the logic that Israel HAS to prevail and that Israel HAS to be redeemed. One needs to pause and ponder if any of these pro-Jewish eschatological ideas were present during earlier Christian times, when the Jews were, to put it mildly, not so popular with the Christians.

"The primary evidence that God exists is the existence of the Jewish people"
-Pat Robertson

This is just one example of the blind, fanatical support of the anti-Christian Israeli state that has become an ingrained part of the faith of many Christians. Most of the prophecies that Christians quote in support of the Jews / Israel have always part of bibles, yet their interpretations have varied over time. Christians back then did not interpret prophetic scriptures in a way that was favorable to Jews. The reason why prophecies are being interpreted with a pro-Israeli / pro-Jewish flavor is because Christianity has been reshaped to accommodate new ideas in favor of the state of Israel and Jews.

As a result, most Christians today live with this strange infatuation with the Jews and the Jewish state that rejects Jesus as Messiah and insults him as a false prophet (among other things).... while, at the same time, condemning as the "enemy" another people who honor Jesus as Messiah. This upside down logic is the direct result of pro-Israeli Christian leaders influencing the minds of regular Christians. This kind of thinking that compels Christians to adore the same people who, as their scriptures say, killed the central figure of their religion is NOT influenced by the bible, but rather the warped minds of Christian authors and speakers. It is this mixture of religion and politics that has led many to confuse godless politics with religion.

What we have here is a preview of the end times deception. On one hand, we have the Jews who utterly despise Jesus... and on the other, we have the Christians who say they love Jesus... but in an absurd twist of logic, adore and support the Jews who insult Jesus. Will the Christians who have been deceived into supporting the anti-christian state of Israel also be deceived into supporting the anti-Christ? I'd say its very possible. If Christians want to walk hand-in-hand with Israel, they will either swim together or sink together.

I will end with the same quote from Paul, that I started with... so as to leave something for Christians to think about.

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

There is absolutely no denying that the Christians who support anti-Christian Israel have yoked themselves with non-believers.

I'm willing to bet that more atheists are closer to God than Christians.

The greatest irony ever. But that's just crazy talk, right? Wrooooong.

I would not only agree with your take on that but i would also posit that
because of the vague things in the bible and the many splits of denomination,
not to mention the outright stark contrast of the big three religions one cannot
be certain of salvation, if one becomes saved by jesus and the new testament
was not of god then you have taken another god over the god of the old
testament and therefore are in trouble, if you take the old testament then
jesus said specifically that he was the only way to god.

To me this sets up such a logical conundrum that the actual goal of the bible
itself is completely compromised, not only this but the question of the authorship
and the fact that the bible was added to here and there throughout its copying
for over 1000 years and you get this complete sense of doubt. now if a god
were honestly trying to get his message out then i really cant see this as being
his best work....... many other historians who never claimed to have god on
their side managed to keep better records of the same time periods and to
me that said that either A: man can keep better more effectual records than
this claimed deity or B: God does not want to make himself evident at all.

The argument of validity of the actual claim by either side if almost always
ignored when discussing how one meshes with the other as you have done,
you seem to think that somehow both sides of the "disagreement" have equal
footing when in all reality judahism believes christ was a false prophet, as
does islam, so in comparison they call each other frauds and then claim
their side has it correct, how can we not see the fallacy there? they all do actually
have equal footing if we are honest though, they all make claims they cant
back up, so to an honest person simply seeking truth one would have to
acknowledge that they both stand on such shaky ground you cannot say one
is right, you could however say they are all three wrong.

How can anyone believe they are saved if the road is varied and split that
no one can even be sure of how to be saved? i always wonder why so
many people allow their ego to convince them they got the right religion.

reply to post by bloodreviara

when in all reality judahism believes christ was a false prophet, as does islam,

Sorry, but you are wrong on this.
Islam not only teaches that Jesus was a true prophet, but also that he was the Messiah. Which is why Muslims call Jesus Isa-al Masih, meaning "Jesus, the messiah". These are basic Koranic truths that Christians don't want to admit.

Despite muslims accepting Jesus as the messiah, Christians would rather form an alliance with the Jews who are opposed to Jesus. Though Judaism is theologically incompatible with Jesus (because jews believe somebody else is the messiah) the Jewish state receives support and adoration from many Christians.

How can anyone believe they are saved if the road is varied and split that no one can even be sure of how to be saved? i always wonder why so many people allow their ego to convince them they got the right religion.

Some people believe one gets the "right religion" when they possess a certain set of beliefs. If someone among them lacks even one belief in the set, he is disqualified from being part of that "right religion".

In this case, the Jews lack belief in Jesus as the messiah (or even as a prophet for that matter.) They go one step further in calling Jesus a false prophet. This alone should be grounds for Christians to reject the Jews the same way they reject hindus, buddhists or anybody else whos religion is not centered around Jesus. Instead, they embrace the Jews and find all kinds of scriptural justification for it.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Sorry, but you are wrong on this. Islam not only teaches that Jesus was a true prophet, but also that he was the Messiah. Which is why Muslims call Jesus Isa-al Masih, meaning "Jesus, the messiah". These are basic Koranic truths that Christians don't want to admit.

You can throw the word "Messiah" around all you want, but until you understand the true definition for what makes Jesus the true Messiah, you have nothing. That doesn't make the Muslims any different than the Jews.

And while we're at it, you supporting Palestinians that are being ruled by Muslim terrorists isn't any different than our supporting of Jews being ruled by Zionists. This is why you have to take away the religion and just look at them as people. The truth is, the Palestinians are safer under Israeli rule than they are by Muslim extremist rule. You only have to look at what's going on in Syria right now to know that.

The end.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Very insightful post.

Jews worship the fallen planetary/elemental djinn of Mt. Sion (Mt. Hermon/Kur-gal).
For this reason, Jews refer to themselves as the "Little Mountain", gematria value 35.

Muslims and true Chr(e)stians, along with followers of Zoroastrianism, worship El Elyon/Allah/Ahura Mazda, a.k.a. the God Most High.

Any fool by means of his five senses alone cannot help but to perceive the conspicuous schemes of modern Jews to destroy faith in Jesus and in Allah, today.

reply to post by Aesir26

Any fool by means of his five senses alone cannot help but to perceive the conspicuous schemes of modern Jews to destroy faith in Jesus and in Allah, today.

Nor do they perceive the conspicuous schemes of Muslims to try and tie Jesus to Islam when they reject most of what he taught.

/Yawn, muslim deny Jesus is the Son of God and that he died for our sins. That makes you antichrist. Furthermore we're not yoked to them, we do not fellowship with them nor worship together. Jewish christians yes because they are with us, but not orthodox jews who deny Jesus.

BTW when the jews recite the Shema prayer:

"Shema Yisarel, Adonai Elohienu, Adonai Echad"

"Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One"

They do not yet know what they are saying but they are saying Jesus is their God and one day soon they will realize it, just like prophecy says.

Jesus = Holy One of Israel. Holy One = Messiah = Anointed One = King of Israel = God. God has always been the King of Israel which is why Isaiah says:

Isaiah 6:1-10

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!”

4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 So I said:

“Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The Lord of hosts.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth with it, and said:

“Behold, this has touched your lips;
Your iniquity is taken away,
And your sin purged.”

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:

“Whom shall I send,
And who will go for Us?”

Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:

‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’

10 “Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.”

And Jesus fulfills this in John12.

John 12:35-41

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Isaiah SAW Jesus on his throne in heaven.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Yes, but it is still a fact that Jews despise Jesus and Muslims revere Him.

£10 says Jesus* wouldn't give a be that interested in the results of a popularity contest as long as people were nice to each other.

"Decent chap?"
'Yup.'
"Nice one."

"Decent chap?"
'Nope, but I strangle kittens in your name!'
"Okay... wait, what?!"




*Read - 'any decent person'.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Furthermore we're not yoked to them, we do not fellowship with them nor worship together.

Thats obvious.... you CANT worship together because Christianity and Judaism are theologically incompatible. One group accepts Jesus as messiah and the other denies him. Despite all this, many Christians support the very people who reject the messiah.

They do not yet know what they are saying but they are saying Jesus is their God and one day soon they will realize it, just like prophecy says.

Prophecy has been reinterpreted over and over again. Its only recently that Christian writers have started interpreting it to mean that Israel will be finally redeemed... this was the point of the OP.

You can post all the scripture you want.... but the reason why prophecies are being interpreted with a pro-Israeli / pro-Jewish flavor is because Christianity has been reshaped to accommodate new ideas in favor of the state of Israel and Jews. Just a few centuries ago, Christians despised Jews and believed the church has entirely replaced Israel. Had you been living in those times, you would not have had this pro-Jewish take on prophecy.

reply to post by Deetermined

You can throw the word "Messiah" around all you want, but until you understand the true definition for what makes Jesus the true Messiah, you have nothing. That doesn't make the Muslims any different than the Jews.

You mean the "true" definition as defined by Christians who support the same people who deny the messiah? No thanks.

Also I don't "throw around" the word Messiah. Islams identification of Jesus as Isa al-Masih (Jesus the Messiah) is extremely important from a theological perspective. Yet Christians stop at nothing to try and discount Jesus' status as messiah in Islam.

reply to post by Deetermined

And while we're at it, you supporting Palestinians that are being ruled by Muslim terrorists isn't any different than our supporting of Jews being ruled by Zionists.

It has nothing to do with the theological issue of you supporting a people and an entity that insults Jesus.
Even if you support the Jews living under Zionists, you still support a people who reject Jesus as messiah. How difficult is that to understand?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n



Skorpion, help me to understand your desperate attempt to hang on to Jesus, while trying to bash Israel. Why bring Israel up at all? This is obviously a battle you're having with God, not Israel.

Even if you support the Jews living under Zionists, you still support a people who reject Jesus as messiah. How difficult is that to understand?

And even though you support moderate Muslims living in Palestine under the rule of extremist terrorists who are killing their Muslim brothers everyday, you think that's better because they're doing it in the name of Allah? You think that's revering God and Jesus? Seriously? Really?

I wish you could hear how hypocritical and crazy that sounds!

Skorpion, there's something bigger going on with you to the point of sounding desperate. Your faith is turning to hate and you don't even sound rational any longer. Maybe you should pray about it.

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Yes, but it is still a fact that Jews despise Jesus and Muslims revere Him.

Jews may despise Jesus but muslim do not revere Jesus. They place Muhammad above Messiah, and do the teachings of Muhammad and not Jesus. They have another master other than Jesus and Jesus says you cannot serve 2 masters. The true muslim adhere's to Sharia law. Sharia law breaks the commandments and teachings of Christ and the 10 commandments. They say with their mouths "we believe in Jesus" but their actions say otherwise. People like Osama Bin Laden are the true muslim, who bring Jihad against christians and jews. Islam teaches that persecution must be met with violence and must not be permitted, that persecution is worse than slavery. Jesus teaches that persecution must be suffered, to turn the other cheek and do no violence, to overcome evil with good, to give the shirt off your back to those in need regardless of who they are, to feed the poor. Islam teaches not to give food or aid to any unbeliever. Islam teaches it is permissable to lie for the cause of Allah, Jesus teaches to be truthful, that to worship God must be done in truth and in spirit.

So we can clearly see that Muhammad taught one thing, Jesus taught another and who should you believe? The King or a fool?

reply to post by Deetermined

your desperate attempt to hang on to Jesus, while trying to bash Israel. Why bring Israel up at all?

I am bringing up Israel for all the reasons outlined in the OP.
What I am doing is criticizing the Christians who claim they love Jesus, yet support the very people who despise and insult Jesus. They even try and justify it with scripture and politics as you have done in this thread.

Its like looking at a man who declares he loves his wife a lot.... but at the same time also supports someone who falsely accuses his wife of being a whore. Does that the man honestly love his wife? Is he even sane? You as a sane person would probably want nothing to do with people who insult your loved ones, but in the case of Jesus, who you claim you love... you support the people who insult him.

...extremist terrorists who are killing their Muslim brothers everyday, you think that's better because they're doing it in the name of Allah? You think that's revering God and Jesus?

I don't recall ever saying the acts of terrorists is showing reverence to God. Thats something that you have made up yourself, possibly in an attempt to derail the thread.

there's something bigger going on with you to the point of sounding desperate. Your faith is turning to hate and you don't even sound rational any longer. Maybe you should pray about it.

I don't hate. I'm calling things for what they are.
You have corrupted your faith by your support of anti-Christian Jews.
You don't sound very rational when you say you love Jesus but yet support the very people who insult him.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jews may despise Jesus but muslim do not revere Jesus.

Actually, Muslims do revere Jesus. You may deny all you want.
Just like the Jews who wanted to keep God all to themselves... Christians want to keep Jesus all to themselves.

Christians seem to hate the idea that another people revere Jesus as messiah.

They place Muhammad above Messiah, and do the teachings of Muhammad and not Jesus.

Islam teaches that all prophets are equal.
Some muslims tend to elevate Mohammad higher than Jesus, only because their religion was brought to them by Mohammad. However, the fact that Jesus is the messiah and has the honor of killing the anti-christ, implies that Jesus was in a way, special.

People like Osama Bin Laden are the true muslim, who bring Jihad against christians and jews.

Only as taught by Christian fundamentalists.

So we can clearly see that Muhammad taught one thing, Jesus taught another

We don't "clearly see" it.
You have only stated your skewed perception of Islam.... as taught to you by your leaders.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


"Jesus says you cannot serve 2 masters."

Mat 6:24
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Jesus is talking about serving the almighty dollar instead of serving God Almighty:
usury and money-lending being something Muslims are not noted for, but something for which the Goldbergs, Silversteins, and Cashmans of the world are quite notorious.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Christians seem to hate the idea that another people revere Jesus as messiah.

No we don't. We just hate the idea that Muslims want to believe that Jesus is only returning to kill the anti-christ and then live another forty years before he dies. This is not what Jesus taught. Plain and simple. How do you call that revering Jesus?

If you don't "clearly see" that, than you've skewed your own perception of Islam.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

What I am doing is criticizing the Christians who claim they love Jesus, yet support the very people who despise and insult Jesus.

And in return, all I've done is criticize you for supporting the people who kill members of their own faith everyday, insulting Jesus too. It works both ways. If you support a Palestinian state, in the end you're supporting control over them by way of Muslim extremism, which is more likely to get them killed than being controlled by Israelis.