Social Engineering - Response to bullying in America

I suspected the whole anti-bullying thing was a smokescreen for something else. Too many codewords like "tolerance".

Then I found this:

www.henrymakow.com...

There's also a whole program in the US. I can't find it right now, but it's all about anti-bullying and making kids sit together who are "different". And if you sit with the gay kid, you must have a dialoge all about acceptance. Our local high school participated. Probaly not knowing they were participating in a program designed my socialists. I sure with I could find the link. I was shocked when I read between the lines.

reply to post by davjan4


Yes because the insidious intention of this program is that we stop society from demonizing homosexuals.

I hope you can see all the ways in which that is a stupid belief.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by davjan4

 

Yes because the insidious intention of this program is that we stop society from demonizing homosexuals.

I hope you can see all the ways in which that is a stupid belief.

Where does it stop? I keep hearing that as long as tow consenting adults agree, and it doesn't hurt anyone esle, then it's OK to proceed.

From wht I understand, homosexual behavior falls into this catagory. But now we have aids. How much has that cost society?
And as an RN, I've seen some pretty amazing x-rays that came about as the result of two consenting adults deciding that something that involved longneck beer bottles was OK. Then they ended up on the ER. Medicaid (the taxpayers) paid for that too.

We all pay a price for each others behaviors. Sometimes it just happens later, hours, minutes, years or decades.

reply to post by davjan4


It would take a pretty ignorant person to connect the origin of AIDS to homosexuality.

O look what you just did there... huh....

reply to post by bknapple32


This is ATS, where out-of-touch viewpoints tend to get a ton of support, despite the obvious lack of merit or common sense.

I had a hunch this thread would be someone whining about teachers "pussifying our kids" and you know what? I was 100% on the ball.

This is fringe material, undeserving of a site such as ATS.

This is classic. The wussification of America indeed. No competition, "everyone is a winner", awards for participation, and awards for doing your best even if your best doesn't meet the minimum standards for advancement to the next grade.

My daughter is 15 now and I have seen it since she started school. I always believed that she should attend public school for several reasons not the least of which was socialization and learning to work/play with other of various backgrounds.

She will not be attending public school any longer after the mid-winter break. She is not thriving or learning - the schools spend more time dealing with social indoctrination than they do on actual education.

As for the OP and the "walk-away" mentality. I have always told my daughter - counter to her institutional indoctrination that she is free to beat the # out of anyone who physically assaults her. I have given her instruction in Army Combatives and she's pretty decent... She knows to avoid a fight even if it makes her look silly or weak to do so. She can dress people down pretty well with her words, she comes by that honestly. She can also defuse situations with humor and self ridicule. However, if it can't be avoided she knows whatever the school does is not an issue with me - in fact I will side with her.

I have instructed her on gun safety and she has her own firearms in her room that are locked and loaded at all times - not much use otherwise IMO. She is a better shot than I am now even though I spent most of my career in Special Forces.

The eyes aren't what they used to be and after a neck injury my hands have some palsy and shake a lot. Hard to get a good sight picture. I think I can hold my own but I am not passing sniper school again I bet.

She informed me of an incident recently at the school and seemed appalled at her friend’s reaction to a beat down. A friend of hers got "sucker punched" in the lunch room (as she stated) and then just stood there and let the other girl "whip-up on her" (again her words) until the teachers came and pulled the aggressor off. My daughter asked the girl why she didn't fight back... Her answer, "I didn't want to get in trouble". What was her reward for not fighting back? Three day out of school suspension for a cooling off period. As her Mom explained it to us the school said it was for her own protection. LOL.

Classic. A kid stands there and takes a beat down - paralyzed by 10 years of public school indoctrination. It is sad, oh so sad.

America is dead.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Social engineering indeed!
Message: Don't defend yourself, that's the job of the state.

"wait, there's no middle finger emoticon?"
Samuel Colt and myself take severe umbrage at such a suggestion.

Quite right: I have Springfield, Colt, Kimber, Kalishnikov, Siaga, Mossberg, and too many other friends to name - we have quite a posse if you know what I mean.

The "State" will never be able to respond to an emergency where I live (1 Deputy on Duty for like 700+ square miles of county) until it is already over. This is what the call 911 city dwellers don't get about America and guns. This isn't Europe with people stacked neatly in little countries the size of American counties - with a policeman within 10 minutes at all times. This is what those NYC and other left coast representatives can't come to grips with. That every place is different and gun laws that work for NY Chicago and LA are not necessary for rural America and they would result in good people dying because they are disarmed.

Originally posted by havok
The problem I see is teaching children NOT to stand up for themselves.
Just like they want adults NOT to fight for what they believe in.
Good, complacent, apathetic citizens.
They don't want freedom fighters.

Teach children to stand up for themselves!
They can decide when it is important todo so...
If they get knocked down...tell them to stand up and brush their shoulders off!
If they get hurt, they'll learn that fighting hurts so only do it when necessary.
We can't be scared of children getting bruised or broken. It happens.
That's how I learned to deal with life.
I wasn't taught to run from my problems, thankfully.

Greatly called Social Engineering and proven to work.
After decades of this, children...now adults...will bend over backwards to the biggest bully.
The gov't.

Oh wait...this already happens today.

This is EXACTLY what I was going for in my comments. I don't teach my kids to turn and fight every kid who calls them a name or taunts them. But if some bully tries to hit or attack my child, I sure as hell am not going to want my child to allow it to happen without any attempt at self-defense.



This isn't about teaching kids to fight without cause. It's about teaching them to respect themselves and that their life and personal security also has value and NO ONE has the right to take that away.


I am also saying what kind of message are you teaching the youth of america that it is not alright to defend yourself? Is this the message you want ingrained in people who are supposed to protect the country and its citizens in the next generation? Do you want a country that cowers under aggression? Or do you want a leadership that understands that you don't go seeking a fight but there is such a thing as justified force in self-defense?

Comparing school yard bullying to acts of terrorism and wars is incredibly extreme, don't ya think?

When i went to school (long long ago) i played all the sports, I won, i lost, i strived to win of course but learned more from losing. I was very even tempered, never bullied anyone. When i was bullied i just whipped their ass. Simple as that. It ended there. A bully will only bully until he starts bleeding. Of course today everything is different. There are no losers in sports. It is hard to tell the difference in mental attitude of a boy and a girl. If you defend yourself you are vilified. I was probably involved in over 500 fights growing up. I came out fine. I have not been in a fight in 35 years. I am still even tempered and if anything i am more tolerant to stupidity and aggression than ever in my life. Kids will fight, it's part of growing up. If they really want bullying to go away then charge the parents of the bully. Not punish the kid defending himself.

Originally posted by The 5th
Comparing school yard bullying to acts of terrorism and wars is incredibly extreme, don't ya think?

If that's what you get out of this thread then you didn't understand a thing about what I said.

It's not about comparing bullying to acts of terrorism. It's about teaching an entire generation that standing up for themselves and their personal safety, when necessary, is WRONG. And once you start ingraining that belief in your future generation, where does it stop?

Originally posted by CIAGypsy

Originally posted by The 5th
Comparing school yard bullying to acts of terrorism and wars is incredibly extreme, don't ya think?

If that's what you get out of this thread then you didn't understand a thing about what I said.

It's not about comparing bullying to acts of terrorism. It's about teaching an entire generation that standing up for themselves and their personal safety, when necessary, is WRONG. And once you start ingraining that belief in your future generation, where does it stop?

He understands completely. The where does it stop argument is unfair, guessing to an extreme at best, and a misrepresentation of a supportive argument to your point.

Just because teachers are trying to stop kids from solving their problems with violence has absolutely NO correlation to creating a generation that will let another country commit an act of war against them with no retaliation.

To be honest, I'd rather have the generation that thinks before acting with violence. Maybe then we might actually find out if the country we are going to invade had weapons of mass destruction, or had absolutely anything to do with said terrorist attack.

Originally posted by bknapple32
To be honest, I'd rather have the generation that thinks before acting with violence. Maybe then we might actually find out if the country we are going to invade had weapons of mass destruction, or had absolutely anything to do with said terrorist attack.

The problem with this will always be that the generation who makes those decisions is two or three removed from those who will be the ones to carry out the orders. They will always disagree.

Since times of antiquity the older generations have considered those subsequent to their own to be too liberal and too indulgent while the junior generations consider their elders too closed minded and conservative. The generations who lead and directed WWII were the same people who criticized their elders for their handling of WWI. The generation who fought in and lived through all the horrors of WWII directed and ordered Korea and Vietnam. It is all about responsibility and perspective. One has no idea what those things mean without real experience. Ideal's are neat but they are no substitute for experiance - or we'd have 18 year olds running things.

In 40 years this generation will be the stodgy elders who think gay marriage is fine but group marriage and marriage to animals is not - how closed minded they will be. They will cringe when the tax man cometh for their hard earned wealth to fund the very entitlement society they created - if any society at all remains.

The phenomenon is almost universal throughout all cultures that the young view themselves as more compassionate and understanding of the needs of others. This is directly a result of the fact that most young people have yet to experience the true cost and responsibility of having to raise their own children and provide for them. They see it as a compassionate ideal that all people should be provided for because it is only an ideal to them. Most of them have nothing or very little in the way of wealth and therefore see more to gain from such a compassionate society than they stand to lose.

I don't know who it was said show me a young conservative and I’ll show you a person with no heart and show me an older liberal and I'll show you a person with no brain.

That is the difference between generations - those senior have had to temper their hearts with their responsibilities and reason for the good of their families and their associations. The younger generation sees them as hard hearted. It is simply experience.

One can find quotes going back to Socrates on how they fear for their future when the next generation takes charge.

If that's what you get out of this thread then you didn't understand a thing about what I said.

Please don't assume and imply my level of understanding about the OP is somehow limited because I commented on an aspect of what has been mentioned therein and by other posters and it doesn't fit what you want to hear. It's rude and shows ignorance.

It's not about comparing bullying to acts of terrorism.

I understand that but some examples mentioned in this thread ARE extreme. That is all I mentioned. You are making massive connections out of thin air.

It's about teaching an entire generation that standing up for themselves and their personal safety, when necessary, is WRONG. And once you start ingraining that belief in your future generation, where does it stop?

Well there are some interesting angles this question could lead to, what do you think?

Some nice generalisations that post

This thread comes across as being a little bit melodramatic in all honesty, with no real depth. You're over-reactive response to me could be used as an example of where the country is going and how wars are created, what is wrong with the generations of past and present. Loosely tied with some god aweful example with no logic applied and no substance.

"Just walk away" should be the first resort, but sometimes the kid isn't given that option by their tormentor. Imagine a world where kids had more than just the two courses of action- submit or hit back. What if every kid knew how to block and restrain?

Funny thing: Japan has a severe bullying problem, and has adopted a very different policy from the absolutely ridiculous "zero tolerance" line the US takes. Judo /Aikido are now required activities for all students. The idea being that if every kid knows how to take care of him/herself without harming their attacker, it might lead to an overall decrease in bullying.

We'll see how it goes for them, as it's still being implemented, but personally I have high hopes for the results.

Here's a thread I started on this topic:

Self Defense: The Key To A Civil Society?

The problem is made worse by vilifying the victim along with the bully. The zero tolerance policy results in the mass murders and suicide among teens. When i went to school we fought. It lasted a whopping 45 seconds most times and we walked away on speaking terms and mutual respect most times. Sometimes becoming friends. Conversely today with the zero tolerance policy instead of problem solved in 45 seconds the two people go home and get more angry by the minute. This results in these school killings. They stew on hatred until it boils over and turns extremely ugly. The policy sounds good but in reality it is the worst possible way to handle these situations. Unintended consequences can be horrendous.

If you think what happens on the playground translates into politics I wonder what made the bush administration beat up some kid whom had nothing to do with anything after having been stomped by somebody they considered a friend.

A lot of people talking about bullying in here obviously were not bullied.
Bullying isn't always making fun a little bit or a slap every now and then, it can be horrendous ABUSE for some.
I've known peopel who's lives were essentially ruined back in their school days, fighting back may have helped them, more than likely not though as some bullies give off the vibe of being mental as opposed to normal well balanced kids.
Another point to make is, Lets say Guy A is a notorious Bully, Guy B doesn't want to be bullied so he joins in (On Guy A's Side) then you have Guy C and Guy D who follow suit. It can soon escalate.

Some of my best times at school was seeing bullies get there come uppance, some would change there ways, others would come back with knives/screwdrivers and retaliate that way. This is real life.

Self defense should ALWAYS be an available option.