Just saw the proposed tax increases on the Middle Class, are they INSANE?!

reply to post by Djayed


You are frorgetting taxes. No matter what you think raising my taxes is like someone cutting my wages by almost half. Where is the justice in that?

reply to post by k21968


Your DTI is considered after taxes have been removed from your paycheck, it is what you "Take Home"....if you were counting 33% DTI before taxes then you are probably more around 83% DTI and you are living WAY above your means.

I think I have reached my limit with this thread and I am moving on....good luck people..sorry that you will be thrown out on the streets because you make over 100K.

Originally posted by micmerci
Oh, no, no, no, it is only those making over $250k- don't you remember? Only the super wealthy will see a rise in taxes, remember? Oh, you mean that was a crock of [snip]? You can't say that because that makes you a racist.

Oh, yeah BTW, If this news gets you fired up, just wait until Obamacare fully kicks in- then the fun begins!

And Obama's rating has gone up SMH

edit on Sat Dec 8 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors

You're thinking of a different scenario. The Dems want to let the tax cut expire without renewing it, ONLY for that portion of income which falls above $250,000. The Republicans want that portion to remain as well, and are willing to let it expire on the ”bottom 98%” if they don't get their way. A little research, or reading, can go a long way.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Cival war coming to a town near you, better get ready. I give it 5 years till it breaks out.

Is this gross or adjusted income? Is this per household or individual? If healthcare is thrown in then the 14K is what the average family health insurance costs a year...well in Mass anyway. Though I did hear that if you have health insurance benifits from your company, that would be considered income?

I wonder if we sit down with a dollar and see what its worth after we take out federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, medicaid tax, sales tax, fuel tax, excise tax, property tax which I also have a road and lake tax, out....whats its actually worth




Bill

My wife and I are looking at the possibility of losing our apartment next year...it's already low income, just not sure what we are going to do honestly. We've never felt so hopeless. We both graduated from college in 2009, to a crumby economy but figured by now we'd have good jobs...I still work in retail and my wife still works as a nanny/babysitter. We just cannot find decent jobs.

Originally posted by AnonymousMoose
My wife and I are looking at the possibility of losing our apartment next year...it's already low income, just not sure what we are going to do honestly. We've never felt so hopeless. We both graduated from college in 2009, to a crumby economy but figured by now we'd have good jobs...I still work in retail and my wife still works as a nanny/babysitter. We just cannot find decent jobs.

I hear you. No car, no license until I pay back over 10k, which I can't do. I finally found work after 2 years of hard looking - it's 8.25/hr and I get between 15 and 25 hrs a week. Once taxes are out, I'm bringing about 700 a month home. I had to get into housing because I couldn't afford my 300/mth rent so now I'm paying 50 a month (electric and water included) but because I finally have work (thank GOD), rent is rising to 214/mth. If I wasn't living in the poorest county in illinois, there is NO way I could survive any where else. No way.

My son and I have no tv, no cable, I have a cheap net 10 pay as you go phone, etc etc etc.

I'm making about 7000 to 9000 a year before taxes. It may not be a lot but we have food, and I finally have a job. Yeah, food stamps do help. Hopefully in time I'll move up to 30 hrs a week and finally have some spending money left over from every check.

My best job was when I was shift manager at Arbys in 2008 and got 8.50 an hour and worked about 40 to 45 hrs a week. I was living large then. Split the 840/mth rent with the roomie, split the electric, shopped at Aldi's (cheap food store) and was thrilled to have about 50 a month left over to do with as I wanted. I had a blast.

It's harder now but my god, if we didn't have the housing and the help from the food stamps, we'd definitely be in trouble.

Oh and don't no one harp at me about 'going to college to get a better job'. I'm right now paying off a 54k loan for my bachelors. I got halfway throgh the bachelors and the loans dried up. So I have to pay that back and get no degree for it. I have already accepted that I'll be min wage my entire life. At least I'm working though. I'm grateful for that.

To me, 22,000 a year is RICH. I'd honestly not know what to do with that kind of money. I'd probably invest most into stocks and bonds after I learned what the heck those even were and how to play the game, and would be set for life no doubt.

What constitutes rich vs middle vs poor? Well, It's all in the eye of the beholder. To someone like me who has never EVER made over 8.50 an hour since the first job in 1989, (back then it was 4.50/hr), even 10 an hour is RICH. If I made 12, I'd be beside myself with pure joy, looking to finally get a car, finally get new clothes, have cable, etc. Oh my GOD, I'd finally see what it would be like to LIVE. No, I take that back. I'm happy with what I have now. I'm not homeless, I'm not going without food, my son is clothed, fed and such (sure we may only eat once or twice a day but thats MORE than fine). He's trying to find work too now that he's old enough, but since no one is hiring really, ... he's learning what real life is like, that's for sure. I'm glad to give him this life lesson to be honest. It's priceless.

Originally posted by phroziac
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

It absolutely is a status symbol. I only pay $500 a month in rent. These people could move to Pennsylvania. In fact, I would go even further to say that anyone who spends $25000 a year in rent is a fool. Why would anyone pay so much to be packed into a city where they don't even have god given rights?

I see.... So living in the NYC or San Fransisco areas is a status symbol? I'm sure the people in Harlem and the Bronx feel appropriately special with their status. Tha'ts a rather silly thing to say and if they all DID move to where you are, what do you think will then happen to your $500/month rent? I assure you, it won't be possible to find any longer. Rent is a supply and demand thing and unlike wealth, it IS a finite resource.

The class and income lines/differences are real clear in this thread. I've never even made more than about $45k/year myself outside owning my own truck and I'll tell ya... $225,000 or so in income isn't squat when it's the gross side of things. I actually came out with less when I owned my own. I don't envy or resent those who have done better than I have....nor do I wish Uncle Sam to fund more reckless overspending on their backs. When they are out of money to give, Uncle WILL come for the rest of ours. We're feeding a beast that never knows satisfaction here.

Originally posted by SerialVelocity
Agree to universal healthcare, then at least you'll get more for your extra $14,000

I already have excellent Health Insurance that I pay a great deal for. What you and those like you and this Obama want is for me to pay for your Health Insurance.....well, I won't mind paying for your cremation expense so I guess there is a bright side.

However,none of you Obamanoid Marxists should be too happy,many of us are drawing down on our assets to take the tax hit in 2012 vs 2013 and we will not be reinvesting in the USA; we will, as many of us have already done, planting seeds on foreign soil and will be leaving.

Well, this ought to kick the Obama Foreclosure-a-thon back into gear after a brief respite, his bankster buddies obviously haven't scooped enough nearly enough real estate over the last few years. Kicking up taxes on already stretched-too-thin homeowners ought to do the trick! And yes, Obama believers he's every bit as 'in' with the banksters as any Repub ever was, here's a list of guys in his administration who were payrolled from just ONE bank, Goldman-Sachs:

Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff, at GS Contract Employee
Robert Hormats, Under Sec of State, at GS Vice Chairman of GS Int'l
Stephen Friedman, Chairman FIAB, at GS he was co-COO and Chairman
Diana Farrell, Dep Secretary NEC, GS Financial Analyst
Phillip Murphy, Ambassador to Germany, at GSSenior Director GS-Frankfort
Mark Patterson, Chief of Staff, Treasury, and Former Lobbyist for GS
Adam Storch , COO SEC enforcement, at GS VP of Business Intelligence
Alexander Lasry, White House Staff, at GS, Government Affairs Analyst
Sonal Shah, White House Staff, at GS VP Environmental Policy
Gregory Craig, White House Counsel, at GS he was Chief Counsel Defense vs SEC lawsuit
Gary Gensler , Chairman CFTC, at GS Co-Head of Finance

That's just from Goldman-Sachs.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
yeah I don't know why you guys are all up in arms.

You never should have gotten a tax cut to begin with. If Regan had any common sense he'd have left the stuff where it was or made a MANDATORY removal of tax cuts. George should have done the same thing.

Now that people are comfortable not paying for anything the government has done, you all jump in the air when the time has come to do so.

America, you let your country slip into a financial disaster. It's time to fix it. That means ALL of you are going to be poor for a bit. Unless of course you simply ask the rich to reduce their wealth by about 20%, which to them is a drop in the ocean.

~Tenth

Regan had a plan!

en.wikipedia.org...

Great idea, bad execution.

Uncle Sam never stopped spending what he didn't have.

Here we are.

Now we go back to tax-anything-that-moves b/c Uncle Sam needs revenue because we dont want to stop spending.

To avoid taxes, the ancient Romans used to sell themselves into slavery b/c slaves didn't have to pay taxes.

IF i remember correctly, at that time, the Romans paid far less taxes than we do today.

We are more slaves than they ever were, and we don't even have the option to become badazz gladiators.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by phroziac
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

It absolutely is a status symbol. I only pay $500 a month in rent. These people could move to Pennsylvania. In fact, I would go even further to say that anyone who spends $25000 a year in rent is a fool. Why would anyone pay so much to be packed into a city where they don't even have god given rights?

I see.... So living in the NYC or San Fransisco areas is a status symbol? I'm sure the people in Harlem and the Bronx feel appropriately special with their status.

Tha'ts a rather silly thing to say and if they all DID move to where you are, what do you think will then happen to your $500/month rent? I assure you, it won't be possible to find any longer. Rent is a supply and demand thing and unlike wealth, it IS a finite resource.

The class and income lines/differences are real clear in this thread. I've never even made more than about $45k/year myself outside owning my own truck and I'll tell ya... $225,000 or so in income isn't squat when it's the gross side of things. I actually came out with less when I owned my own. I don't envy or resent those who have done better than I have....nor do I wish Uncle Sam to fund more reckless overspending on their backs. When they are out of money to give, Uncle WILL come for the rest of ours. We're feeding a beast that never knows satisfaction here.

edit on 9-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: typo

Seriously dude? Really?

Lemme see. I've known people living in Harlem. They were paying $1200 a month rent on a ONE BEDROOM apartment.

I live in a very, very classy neighborhood in a very, very dumpy 1 bedroom house, and pay $550 a month including utilities.

If I was poor the first thing i'd do is get the hell out of NYC. I make $50k a year and i'd be poor over there. So yes, it is a status symbol. I've seen poor people driving Escalades also, you think that makes it not a status symbol?


They don't need to move where I live at all. There's thousands of towns in this country, maybe hundreds of thousands, with reasonable rent. Quite a few of these are in PA, which is only a few hours from NYC.

Also, I'm looking into moving. Probably going to be spending about $700-800 plus utilities ($200 a month in utilities or less for two people here)....for a 3 bedroom duplex with a 1 car garage, in my area. Seeing as how roommates are popular in NYC. You could share that house with 4 people, easily. Probably more. So that brings the rent down to $300 per person per month. including utils.

I also drove through the Bronx last night. You make it sound like it's all a ghetto, which isn't even true. There are a few very nice neighborhoods visible from the cross Bronx expressway.

Originally posted by dogstar23

Originally posted by micmerci
Oh, no, no, no, it is only those making over $250k- don't you remember? Only the super wealthy will see a rise in taxes, remember? Oh, you mean that was a crock of [snip]? You can't say that because that makes you a racist.

Oh, yeah BTW, If this news gets you fired up, just wait until Obamacare fully kicks in- then the fun begins!

And Obama's rating has gone up SMH

edit on Sat Dec 8 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors

You're thinking of a different scenario. The Dems want to let the tax cut expire without renewing it, ONLY for that portion of income which falls above $250,000. The Republicans want that portion to remain as well, and are willing to let it expire on the ”bottom 98%” if they don't get their way. A little research, or reading, can go a long way.

Why should it go up for people making over $250k? They're already paying 33% if they aren't married. That's $82,500 a year. Why should anyone who isn't a millionaire pay that much taxes? This is class warfare, plain and simple.

Thank god 90% of my pay fits through tax loopholes.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

When they are out of money to give, Uncle WILL come for the rest of ours. We're feeding a beast that never knows satisfaction here.

I think this is why Obama's desperate to raise taxes on the top 2%.

I think Uncle Sam is more desperate than we even know (by their own incompetence).

After speaking to a friend recently, who's dying of cancer and has been drawing disability for the last 2 - 3 years, he recently received a letter from the IRS saying that he owed back payroll taxes from a business that he closed 20 years ago! If that isn't desperate, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
Well, this ought to kick the Obama Foreclosure-a-thon back into gear after a brief respite, his bankster buddies obviously haven't scooped enough nearly enough real estate over the last few years. Kicking up taxes on already stretched-too-thin homeowners ought to do the trick! And yes, Obama believers he's every bit as 'in' with the banksters as any Repub ever was, here's a list of guys in his administration who were payrolled from just ONE bank, Goldman-Sachs:

Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff, at GS Contract Employee
Robert Hormats, Under Sec of State, at GS Vice Chairman of GS Int'l
Stephen Friedman, Chairman FIAB, at GS he was co-COO and Chairman
Diana Farrell, Dep Secretary NEC, GS Financial Analyst
Phillip Murphy, Ambassador to Germany, at GSSenior Director GS-Frankfort
Mark Patterson, Chief of Staff, Treasury, and Former Lobbyist for GS
Adam Storch , COO SEC enforcement, at GS VP of Business Intelligence
Alexander Lasry, White House Staff, at GS, Government Affairs Analyst
Sonal Shah, White House Staff, at GS VP Environmental Policy
Gregory Craig, White House Counsel, at GS he was Chief Counsel Defense vs SEC lawsuit
Gary Gensler , Chairman CFTC, at GS Co-Head of Finance

That's just from Goldman-Sachs.

It's now global. I haven't researched them all, but here's another one that's noteworthy.

Mario Draghi - New President of the European Central Bank as of November 1, 2011 is a former Vice Chairman and Managing Director of Goldman Sachs.

Edit to add: Another thing you might find interesting about Goldman Sachs is that it's trying desperately to change it's image. It's largest growing office is the one in Salt Lake City. They're recruiting Mormons like mad and that's why they gave so much money to Romney in the last campaign.

They also appeared at the Vatican's conference, the Executive Summit on Ethics in the Business World, in June 2011.

Think it's going to help? LOL!

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Heliophant

 

Yeah, it's crazy!! They could tax the entire US workforce at 100% and that would still not eliminate the 14 trillion dollar deficit. They must cut spending. They want to bring tax levels back to the Clinton era to replicate that success but it is impossible unless they bring spending back to those levels as well.

Cut spending, fine, but leave the social safety net alone Cut subsidizing oil companies. close some of our bases overseas where we have no business anyway. Cut defense spending for things we dont need that we have plenty of already. End corporate welfare. I am all for those kinds of cuts.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


What do you mean going to be poor for a bit? I already am! I am working with a wage that has not increased due to the recession. If these taxes come back into play it means less hiring, less expansion, and less of a chance for income increases. I am 36, with a family w/ two kids, and I am back in school. I can actually make some money by being in school, financial aid refunds, plus it's a winner in the long run when I finish (two more years). The tax breaks need to be extended, cut government spending starting with entitlements, and expand manufacturing.

After reading through more of the posts I have to say that I am not really poor by any means, I do have a good job making $27,000k, a car note, and an apartment with satellite, wireless internet, my kids are clothed, etc. BUT if it weren't for the tight feelign that the small business I work for has been encompassed in since 2007 then maybe I could get a raise and finally have a house note instead of throwing my money away on rent. Which is only $475 but I could probably find a house for not much more than that in my small town. I am ready for this economy to do something one way or another so that we can all just move on and quit living in perpetual suspended animation. I might also add that I work in the oil and gas industry so we have had our own special issues the last four years. Which is another contributing factor to my wage not keeping up. We actually laid someone off in our office, I took over her responsibilities & kept mine, didn't see an increase in pay, BUT I still have a job! I'd like to be able to celebrate more money some day and not just keep saying "well at least I am working" and if that's selfish - I don't care.

reply to post by phroziac

I'm missing your point... I merely suggested that in some places, $100,000 is NOT Rich. It's Middle Class. Now to support that, I found an averages map of rent rates across the boroughs of New York City. I didn't get all silly and use the $5,000 a month rent rates for an apartment that are listed in some areas...however, the average going rate in NYC to walk up today looked to be $2,000-$2,500 a month across the city, as a whole.

If that's not accurate, there are plenty here from NYC who can chime in with what IS realistic to someone looking to find a 1-2 bedroom as a new arrival in the city today. Looks to me like $25k or more on housing annually is realistic. If living where 25-30% of gross income is out on base rent cost doesn't put you in the Middle Class range? How is that defined on the scale which accounts for cost of living differences?

Originally posted by micmerci
Oh, no, no, no, it is only those making over $250k- don't you remember? Only the super wealthy will see a rise in taxes, remember? Oh, you mean that was a crock of [snip]? You can't say that because that makes you a racist.

Oh, yeah BTW, If this news gets you fired up, just wait until Obamacare fully kicks in- then the fun begins!

And Obama's rating has gone up SMH

edit on Sat Dec 8 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors

Its kicking in. My company is talking about dropping our healthcare since it is cheaper that way.



On another note. tax the rich more and all they will do is make you pay more for your goods and services. they will not suffer one bit. We kick government to kick the rich then the rich kick us.. rinse repeat.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
Well, this ought to kick the Obama Foreclosure-a-thon back into gear after a brief respite, his bankster buddies obviously haven't scooped enough nearly enough real estate over the last few years. Kicking up taxes on already stretched-too-thin homeowners ought to do the trick! And yes, Obama believers he's every bit as 'in' with the banksters as any Repub ever was, here's a list of guys in his administration who were payrolled from just ONE bank, Goldman-Sachs:

Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff, at GS Contract Employee
Robert Hormats, Under Sec of State, at GS Vice Chairman of GS Int'l
Stephen Friedman, Chairman FIAB, at GS he was co-COO and Chairman
Diana Farrell, Dep Secretary NEC, GS Financial Analyst
Phillip Murphy, Ambassador to Germany, at GSSenior Director GS-Frankfort
Mark Patterson, Chief of Staff, Treasury, and Former Lobbyist for GS
Adam Storch , COO SEC enforcement, at GS VP of Business Intelligence
Alexander Lasry, White House Staff, at GS, Government Affairs Analyst
Sonal Shah, White House Staff, at GS VP Environmental Policy
Gregory Craig, White House Counsel, at GS he was Chief Counsel Defense vs SEC lawsuit
Gary Gensler , Chairman CFTC, at GS Co-Head of Finance

That's just from Goldman-Sachs.

It's now global. I haven't researched them all, but here's another one that's noteworthy.

Mario Draghi - New President of the European Central Bank as of November 1, 2011 is a former Vice Chairman and Managing Director of Goldman Sachs.

Edit to add: Another thing you might find interesting about Goldman Sachs is that it's trying desperately to change it's image. It's largest growing office is the one in Salt Lake City. They're recruiting Mormons like mad and that's why they gave so much money to Romney in the last campaign.

They also appeared at the Vatican's conference, the Executive Summit on Ethics in the Business World, in June 2011.

Think it's going to help? LOL!

edit on 9-12-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the heads up there, going to give me some other places to read up on the bankster hierarchy, much apreciated!