Should We Take The 1% Money to Pay off the Debt?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 7-12-2012 @ 12:30 PM by winterkill

So if we took all of the money from
- The Rich
- The Corps
- The sporting events
- Every source of income in America,

We could pay off 1 Trillion dollars of the Debt.

Only 15 more to go.

Define hooped.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 12:35 PM by Wrabbit2000

I really appreciate you posting this. If I'd said it..even with all the support of the M-# reports to prove it...most wouldn't accept it, I figure.

There is ONE source that they could take by force and pay it all....but they'd better have more than 225,000 warm bodies assigned to DHS as an agency first. They'll need millions to keep order in the aftermath. They could take the IRA's 401k's, Pensions and other retirement funds, across the board from everyone. That would pay every dollar with a few trillion in pocket money to play with. It'll just destroy every single person at Middle class and above, overnight.

You're 100% right though and the Money Circulation numbers DO support that. So do the Wealth and Income Distribution reports put out by the Congressional Research Service. The rich are rich by OUR way of thinking...but compared to a 16 trillion dollar mountain? or even the 1-1.5 trillion the last 4 years have seen on a year by year deficit basis? They're as poor as we are....it'll just take them longer to hit the dark bottom than it will us, IMO.

edit on 7-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 12:36 PM by new_here

Originally posted by winterkill
So if we took all of the money from
- The Rich
- The Corps
- The sporting events
- Every source of income in America,

We could pay off 1 Trillion dollars of the Debt.

Only 15 more to go.

Define hooped.

Well how about this...
Remember when we "Bailed out the Banks" ?
Seems like they ought to bail us out now.
Turnabout's fair play.
Why exactly did we give them money again when we were already indebted to them?

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 12:41 PM by MystikMushroom

I think the Gov. should just get out an eraser...

I mean, it's the government. They invented the very money they now seem to owe.

If any country gets pissy that we're not going to pay them back, we can just point to Iraq, Lybia, ect....

"Be nice or end up like Saddam"

I could see it now..."Um yeah, that 15 trillion? What 15 trillion? Yeah, we're not going to be paying that back, like, ever."

Sure it's a d-bag move for the USA to do that, but the whole world thinks the Americans are a bunch of d-bags anyway. We're the USA, we can do whatever the hell we want and get away with it! Go 'Murica!

edit on 7-12-2012 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 12:43 PM by beezzer

reply to post by winterkill

Interesting point, OP. But imagine that we did pay off the debt. What's to stop DC from racking it up again?

And they would rack it up again. No one country can ever be allowed to have a single strong currency again.
(but I'm getting off topic)

So while some would say, "YAY" to your thread title, I think you have illustrated why it is nothing more than a game to those that leave trails of slime along the halls in DC.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 12:52 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by beezzer

Interesting point, OP. But imagine that we did pay off the debt. What's to stop DC from racking it up again?

And they would rack it up again. No one country can ever be allowed to have a single strong currency again.
(but I'm getting off topic)

It takes this 1% lifetimes, sometimes generations to acquire their assets.

It takes the government a few days to blow through a trillion dollars.

Complete confiscation of all privately held wealth could never keep up.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:00 PM by purplemer

We need a type different system. It has failed...

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:03 PM by MajorMayhem

reply to post by winterkill

You know Washington is already working on a way to bring lots of money into the system without it costing any of us a single penny

Taxpayer Lottery. Everyone filing a tax return would be automatically eligible for a series of prizes that would start at $50 million, going up to a cool $1 billion—lump sum, and totally tax-free.

detales here

Of course there's a catch, there's always a catch---
In this case if your name gets drawn you automatically get audited. if you haven't cheated on your returns then you get the prize, but if you did cheat... then you lose and can end up paying big fines...No one would want to lose out on a billion in cash right, so they hope to stop the cheaters and if every one was honest and paid their fare share...

What’s the point of this? The level of tax evasion in the U.S.—not legal avoidance, but illegal evasion—has grown to some $2 trillion a year

we wouldn't need your 1% and our nations debt would be paid off twice as fast.

I guess the real question is will it work?

edit on 7-12-2012 by MajorMayhem because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:08 PM by marbles87

We have the gold/oil/tech to pay our debt back. But once we do that we give up the power that comes with holding xx trillion in assets and the value of the dollar would plunge (see Germany post WWI and WW2). Also no one would ever lend us money again because they know that any loans are hopeless till the economy comes back around. Look at all the money we dump into countries only to see very minimal return. Its like putting a supercharged V8 in a Geo Metro with no wheels.

We are in a catch 22. If we pay it back our economy would bottom out and if we don't the collectors will come knocking. Nobody turns a blind eye to xx trillions of dollars.

edit on 7-12-2012 by marbles87 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:09 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by purplemer
We need a type different system. It has failed...

Stop chasing ghosts and bombing villages:180 billion annually
Stop pointless prohibition: at least 10 billion annually
Stop administering a pointless and unused draft system: 40-50 million annually
Stop locking up non violent offenders: at least 70 billion annually

That's just the obvious stuff off the top of my head and each one comes with the bonus of cutting smaller bureaucratic and administrative expenses all the way down to the local level.

Though I dont have any numbers in mind right away I'm sure shredding the PA and dismantling the massive data mining and spying infrastructure will save at least another billion each year.

None of these things are essential or necessary. If government spent half as much time trying to save a buck as they do coming up with ridiculous ways to spend a buck we'd all have solid gold driveways and nary a care in the world.

And nobody has to threaten grandpas monthly pittance or shave another dime out of every dollar you earn.

edit on 7-12-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:10 PM by xXxinfidelxXx

reply to post by winterkill

Good luck with that. Let me give you a little hint with that: WWIII doesn't involve nations against nations entirely. It involves nations (and therefore corporations, as you cannot do anything these days without being somehow involved with them) against their people after the people finally get fed up of this steady diet of crap that trickles down from the top. I think that's what they really meant when the referred to the "trickle-down economy." It ain't money that's trickling down, get my drift?

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:10 PM by miniatus

money is one of the single most biggest bottlenecks to our development as a species .. kind of sad really..

We cut the budget for NASA to save some bucks.. imagine if there was no such thing as a budget or foreign trade? .. we were one.. as a species.. There would be nothing stopping innovation.. resources would just be used and not have to be purchased.. technology would skyrocket.. we'd probably have been to mars and back several times =) We could already be working on colonizing other planets and not having to be so worried about running out of sources here..

The thing called money is one of the worst things.. it's the driving force behind so much evil on the planet.. that and organized religion.. but I won't go into that =)

Rant over

edit on 12/7/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:11 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by MystikMushroom

You've mentioned this idea before... Like I've pointed out before...this debt isn't fantasy or imaginary. The public debt is what your Grandparents held in 50 year Treasury Notes or Patriot Bonds..whatever instrument of Government backed debt they may have bought. Maybe yours didn't...but 10's of millions have and do sit on this debt in tangible and real forms they think.....sadly...they can cash all at once and Uncle would find actual money to make good for.

So we can erase all the debt....and for those poor already, it would be a step up. Outside ATS here where I can't know anyone for sure, the poor are the ONLY ones I have ever heard champion this idea. One has to start with nothing to see losing everything as no great loss at all, IMO. The poor would be the only ones to benefit from a "reset" too. It would utterly destroy the other couple hundred million Americans.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:13 PM by seeker1963

reply to post by winterkill

One of the problems with the whole 1% madness paying more to save us all is the fact that when we hear "the top 1% must pay more!" they are EXCLUDING the global leaders that are in power and the Mega Corporations who pay nothing in taxes compared to the rest of us.

This is nothing more than a scam to make us think that those in charge, who have been scamming the pot will be the ones who step up and pay, when in fact it will drive those who we call wealthy that are NOT part of the system that is responsible for controlling us, join us as feudalistic slaves to the system that will NEVER pay their fair share!

For one to think that the people responsible for stealing the global wealth from those who actually worked for their money will give it back, is pure fantasy!

edit on 7-12-2012 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:14 PM by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by winterkill
So if we took all of the money from
- The Rich
- The Corps
- The sporting events
- Every source of income in America,

We could pay off 1 Trillion dollars of the Debt.

Only 15 more to go.

Define hooped.

That's you and I

Will you give up all your money?

Remember, on a global scale, WE are the 1%

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:16 PM by phroziac

Let me get this straight. Lets say im the owner of a cool bazillion bucks. I worked my ass off for years to make a small fortune. no one heloed me, i ran a small tech business and sold it to google and retired. Now you want to take my money away for being successful? What the # is wrong with you?

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:20 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by seeker1963

Indeed... Even Occupy didn't include George Soros in their "1%" outrage that I ever heard...and I did hear strong arguments made why he didn't count... despite that man being among the wealthiest human beings to ever walk the Earth. Ever. Selective outrage is an interesting thing to watch. Almost amusing when those who practice it don't even realize it themselves.

So, you're right. The 1% seems to mean people those in Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Villa Park or the upper crusty set in Manhattan. Oddly....it never seems to extend to the unimaginably wealthy. After all, Soros has a nickname and it's one he earned. "The man who broke the bank of England". I think 1%..and I think him. Most think 1% and they think Bush... lol.... Yeah, Bush couldn't even rise to the level of what fetches the paper for Soros in personal worth comparisons. One buys the other for pure amusement....yet the poor boy of the two is the evil one? Gotta love the logic.

IF we ever even focus on the real 1%..the true 1% of concentrated wealth and power, as you note, it might be a discussion interesting to have. I've yet to see one though.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:21 PM by MystikMushroom

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Why can't we magically wipe out the debt, and then magically give back people what they had in the first place? I mean, we already are printing money out of thin air? We're not backed by anything...

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:26 PM by NavyDoc

Originally posted by winterkill
So if we took all of the money from
- The Rich
- The Corps
- The sporting events
- Every source of income in America,

We could pay off 1 Trillion dollars of the Debt.

Only 15 more to go.

Define hooped.

You have to create a scapegoat to rally the masses and increase your power. Lenin had the Kulaks, Hitler had the Jews, Obama has the 1%.

reply posted on 7-12-2012 @ 01:32 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by MystikMushroom

Okay, fair enough for a question.... and without a bit of sarcasm in my reply (because now you have me honestly curious if you've thought this out in a real sense).

Let's say.... We wipe out 16 trillion in debt tomorrow...or whatever number we deem to erase. Some is public in that number and some is private/international/inter-nation stuff, so erase would be different I'd guess.

In that, and by doing it, every retirement fund in the Western World has collapsed. I mean, overnight. Thats across the board and ALL of them. Government, Union, Private...down to credit union. They would all fall within a business day or two, at most.

That means untold millions who had retirement ..and figured SS as a support tool and not a MEANS of support, then have absolutely nothing left but Uncle's geneoristy and mercy to rely on for supporting themselves beyond their working years. In a keystroke, it will have taken the responsibility of saving for retirement that millions HAVE down....and made them ALL 100% mooch-class folk off the Government.

Why? Because every retirement fund I have ever seen quarterly reports on has a % invested in bonds, treasuries and the like. All of them...without a single exception. Something like CALPERS would implode instantly. No debate there at all.., *poof*.

So.. There is the downside. Enter your solution that has me so curious. In the financial ruins of a reset, what is being offered to replace the retirement and support of the 'golden years' to 10's of millions? After all, the Baby Boomer math bomb is only just starting...and they ALL need supported by us ...100% supported...if what they've saved is seized and stolen by the Government in a massive debt reset? How would you avoid catastrophic collapse?

________

I know this worked in Iceland. Iceland however, has a population of 319,000 people. It doesn't even match most large U.S. cities for how many people had to generally agree and go along to get along. Such a reset, in THAT form, can't translate from 319k to 330 Million. Just my opinion on comparing those two. Although all being equal? I sure wish I'd lived in Iceland with an established home before their reset.