Minimum wage in Detroit, 7.40$ WHY?????

reply to post by jimmyx


Many facets of College are a complete scam. How many of these college students are actually prepared for the real world upon graduation. With tangible life skills? Not many I would guess.

Trade schools, hard sciences, industrial trades, transportation, all still offer ample opportunity. Many successful business people and entrepreneurs, became so without college education. Successful people see where the opportunity lies and works diligently to achieve that success. Same as always.

However, I will not defend the deplorable practices of gov'ts and corporations in undermining unions and labour agreements. International trade agreements have not been favourable for the North American Working class for over 20 years. The U.S. sealed it's fate with free trade years ago. The clamour for cheap overseas trinkets and gadgets still from Walmart and Best Buy has not waned but to trade for these goods has led to an actual drop in REAL standard of living.

This has been an obviously deliberate plan by TPB for a long time. G20 protests and Occupy Wall St. are continually ignored by the working classes, and our leaders have sold out long ago.



The only way for the young is to adapt to the new internationalism. Realize your two party system is a failure and devise a new way. Remember, the young adults today have a chance to shape their future, for it IS theirs.

My guess is that apathy and the new Iphones will somehow deter any real desire for radical change though.

reply to post by jvm222


No the minimum wage in Ohio is $7.70 for tipped employees it is $3.85. And on 1/1/13 will increase to $7.85 and $3.93 respectively as Ohio has tied the minimum wage to the national CPI.

The minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage but now it's so high employeers can't give out raises to those that deserve it. I pay $5 an hour at my place work good and you get a raise English must be your first language

Originally posted by mikellmikell
The minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage but now it's so high employeers can't give out raises to those that deserve it. I pay $5 an hour at my place work good and you get a raise English must be your first language

Wrong the minimum wage was first set to be just that the minimum living wage. You could afford to eat, pay your bills and still had a modest expendable income. That was exactly what it was intended to do. The problems with it are it was not tied to the rate of inflation to begin with, requiring an act of Congress for each and every increase when they felt like getting around to it. So instead of having a wage that stayed consistent with the rate of inflation, it is a wage that helps increase inflation.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
The minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage but now it's so high employeers can't give out raises to those that deserve it. I pay $5 an hour at my place work good and you get a raise English must be your first language

5 dollars an hour?? That must not be in the USA cuz any business person paying that little under the Federal Min wage would be in huge HUGE trouble.

I remember getting 4.50 an hour in 89 with my first job. I'm now making 8.25/hr at my current job (new there, hoping to get to management at some point. It's fast food) and I get about 20 hrs a week. It's supposed to be 30 but we've been slow. I've been min wage my whole working life, I'm soon to be 40. I am halfway through my bachelors but had to stop because the loans ran dry and I can't continue til I repay that 47k I owe. Ah well. At least I tried. :/ I dislike it but min wage IS my job for the rest of my life. I'd love to get into factory work making 19 an hour to start as they do around here but seeing all the people I know in pain, fingers will not bend any more, severe back issues etc., working 15 hr days, I really don't think I'd last too long sadly. The money is very alluring but.... at the risk of my health and body? I don't think so.

Raising the minimum wage...regardless where...does not fix anything.

I remember when I was a teenager in high school and worked a part time job, my wage was $3.35 an hour. Milk was just a little over a dollar a gallon, a loaf of bread was about 49 cents...a dozen eggs about the same and gasoline was around 79 cents a gallon. The minimum wage has more than doubled since my youth and guess what? So has the cost of life. Net gain....zero...might have even lost ground.

The problem is...we are "too connected"...too "envious". We see the people with the good jobs and the nice things and we want them too...but your wage doesn't afford it. So instead of trying to be clever or creative and doing something to improve your station in life...you whine for someone to give you the life you see others enjoying. Here is a painful clue...life is not fair...never has been, never will be. If you want to go the religious route...remember part of our curse for falling from grace was to make our way "by the sweat of our brow". No where in there does it say it was going to be easy or fun. "Christ also warned that 'the poor will always be among us"...it is how we treat them and work with them that says everything about humanity.

If you want an Iphone 5...you should have a job that affords it. If you don't, don't hate the guy who does. I make a decent living self employed. I do not have employees, I work with a loose group of associates all over the country doing construction engineering. We work for each other and we get things done and it's a pretty fair and balanced way of doing things. Sometimes I have a customer that wants something done and I am too busy. Rather than having that customer find a new source around me, I'll get it done through an associate. I still keep the customer and I might make a couple of percent...but that's about it...we don't gouge each other.

It is kinda disappointing to see people that do not understand the ramifications of the minimum wage conversation. You will never-ever get ahead of the curve. Just about the time the minimum wage goes up...so does the cost for everything else. Sure, you now make an extra dollar an hour but the price of milk just went up 50 cents a gallon...and gasoline...and eggs...and bread...your sum total gain....zip...nada. You might think you scored but you just drug everyone else down too.

I appreciate that not everyone gets to go to school. I understand not everyone gets to have a trade. I also understand that this does not mean you take from others and jack up the entire cost of living for everyone so someone can have high speed internet.

I do not like to see others suffer, but there is a difference in suffering and just wanting what you cannot have or afford. I'd like to live in a bigger house and drive a nicer car....but I can't. That does not mean I ruin everything for everyone around me to get what my personal greed wants. There are needs and there are wants and there is a damn big difference. People need to learn what they are and stop dreaming of living beyond their means...you are poor...deal with it or change it...but do not expect me to fix it for you.

Bah...my head hurts...this is why our economy is f'ing broken.

I understand where the OP is coming from.

No, raising the minimum wage does very little to "help" things along- But with the unemployment (In Michigan anyhow) companies are taking total advantage of the no jobs to offer minimum wage only.

I have NEVER worked for min wage (as an adult) and in the 1990s (in Michigan) starting wage for a general factory worker was 10- 11/hour. No Ford or GM, but one of the plethora of factories which used to be here and hiring like mad.

What has happened in MI is that many of these same factories now start at min wage when 20 years ago they actually started higher. My friend is a Garbage man (a sanitation engineer in his opinion, lol) and he has taken 3 pay cuts since 2000 and lost benefits- All that while his company ios seeing the highest profits they have ever seen- He makes LESS now than 10 years ago and with far worse benefits ONLY because the company (he has worked for for 15 years) KNOWS they can get away with it in the current market.

Major Factories have followed suit.Many hiring ONLY through temp agencies and generally using a revolving door of 90 days of work to keep the employees as "temps".

Its getting very bad here. The only jobs I see in my area are for flat minimum wage (and these are not Mc'jobs- but once places you could make a living)

The problem though (as stated) ISNT the Minimum wage- its off-shoring, outsourcing and allowing corporations to run rampant and make obscene profits on the backs of modern day slaves (the Chinese)

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
Raising the minimum wage...regardless where...does not fix anything.

I remember when I was a teenager in high school and worked a part time job, my wage was $3.35 an hour. Milk was just a little over a dollar a gallon, a loaf of bread was about 49 cents...a dozen eggs about the same and gasoline was around 79 cents a gallon. The minimum wage has more than doubled since my youth and guess what? So has the cost of life. Net gain....zero...might have even lost ground

This is why it should have been tied to the rate of inflation from the start. There are ways to fix the minimum wage to address the differences between those jobs where it should be and can be lower, fast food comes to mind as an example. It isn't like there isn't already different minimums based on occupation. If you work in agriculture there is a different rate, if you work as a tipped employee there is a different rate. It isn't something impossible to do and probably should be examined as we are a long way away from the industrial revolution. It just takes more thought and attention than the typical crying that goes on when it comes to legislating such things.

-Something else I would like to add.

Comparing the Cost of Living in Detroit to "other places" is very difficult. I have lived all over the Country and have never seen an area quite like "Detroit metro".

Detroit (the City) is Low cost, as is Del-Ray, River Rouge, Ecorse, and many of the cities which border the Detroit City limits...But, drive 10 mins outside Detroit and you are in Wyandotte, Woodhaven, Brownstown and other upper middle class areas which once thrived on the "Detroit Economy" and are now suffering even worse (since the cost of living in these and many Towns in Detroit metro are very high)- Drive to Gross Point Woods (2 mins from Detroit) or Farmington Hills (maybe 15 mins) which used to be the richest Zip Code in the USA.

Detroit is HUGE- The pictures and representation in the media is a vast proportion of Detroit but there are still some very nice areas. Detroit used to be filled with jobs (I am talking about Detroit Metro) and people made a small commute to live an upper middle class life while making very good wages.

Michigan is a complex State- Nobody is ever "passing through" ('cept Canadians) and Detroit used to be the engine which kept the State running... Those Ford and GM workers tipped very good, frequented the clubs and restaurants, bought lots of goods and passed the wealth around. Now that they are gone (essentially) the entire economy is screwed as a result. The "trickle down" theory works well with regular middle class people who spread the wealth around- "Trickle down" to the very rich and corporations equals unemployment and low wages.

EDIT- And remember, Ann Arbor Michigan (Seventh best place to find work in the USA and third best city to live in) is less than 40 mins away from Detroit (arguably the worst place to live in the USA) but A2 is 25 square miles surrounded by reality- Its weird here.

I don't know if Detroit has a civil service system for state government jobs, but if you can get something like that you don't necessarily need a trade or a college degree.

I've been with NYS for around 5 years with just a High School Diploma and my salary breaks down to $16.15 an hour.

Originally posted by BlesUTP
I don't know if Detroit has a civil service system for state government jobs, but if you can get something like that you don't necessarily need a trade or a college degree.

I've been with NYS for around 5 years with just a High School Diploma and my salary breaks down to $16.15 an hour.

Yes there is a Road Commision and city services- But right now people here are fighting over Mcdonalds jobs (no exaggeration) and if any of those jobs ever open up it will go to someone who "knows the right people".

I am not sure people realize how bad it is here- I moved back to MI 3 years ago and was astounded- Its worse now. The City I live in lost 12% of its entire Jobs since Oct of 2011 and even Wal mart did not hire seasonal workers. My wife and I are fortunate (considering...) but are slowly losing all of our savings just to make ends meet- But we are packing up and leaving State ASAP while we still have the money to do so.

Even A2 (seventh best city to find work in the USA) is either very high or very low skilled jobs with almost no manufacturing... When I left MI in 2003 things were just beginning to get bad. I grew up here and have nebver imagined the situation we are in- At 18 years old (in the 1990s) everyone I knew owned a car, had a job (at least a job that paid a living wage) and many owned homes by 21- Now I see 30 year olds forced to go live back home with Mom and Da and they are working full time...My City gave a multi Million dollar tax break to a Power Company (to move their HQ here) and it ended up creating less than 15 jobs and they actually outsourced their entire IT department to India.

Things are bad here... The numbers do not tell the full story of how MI is being impacted- it isnt just Jobs but WAGES which are plummeting.

EDIT/Add- Also it isnt necessarily about having a "trade" or not- Electricians, Carpenters. CNC Lathe Operators, Platers, Millwrights, Iron Workers, etc, etc, etc- These people have trades- But no jobs. These people are making Mc'Burgers and losing their homes while working as much as they can.

The ONLY answer is to move (honestly) where your trade is needed- That isnt always an option for some. I was a confined space rescue technician in a highly skilled environment- Am Trained as a Medic, Firefighter 2, Hazwoper,etc- We used to train the firefighters in dealing with environmental and confined space hazards and actually performed all environmental rescue and clean-up- If I said what I was doing now you would laugh- But my Company essentially folded and there isnt very much work in manufacturing to warrant keeping us on- Being a medic will net me about $11/hour and is one of the most stressful jobs ever (with terrible hours).

The problem isnt necessarily not having skills - But having skills that are needed now that everything is outsoursed and nobody has much money to go out, do stuff and buy things like they used to.

On a positive note. Michigan will be seeing more jobs since they have become a right to work state. Also you can buy a house for 5k or so in Detroit. Might be some good investments there. You may see a small boom in the economy over the next 5 years. I also agree with one poster. Get a trade skill.

Originally posted by jimmiec
On a positive note. Michigan will be seeing more jobs since they have become a right to work state. Also you can buy a house for 5k or so in Detroit. Might be some good investments there. You may see a small boom in the economy over the next 5 years. I also agree with one poster. Get a trade skill.

Right to Work is a deathblow- Yes we will have "jobs" but they will be so low wage it will be insulting- I have lived in a right to work state- More Jobs doesnt mean # if you cannot make your bills while the company you work for continues to break record profits.

EDIT- Speaking of "right to work" here is an example of what will happen. There is a company called "Inland Waters Pollution Control" (IWPC) which outsources the environmental cleanup from Industry everywhere (and did Superfund work when it was still in effect)- They are a Union/Non Union Company. To do work inside a Union Plant (like Ford or GM) you HAVE to have a Union card so around 30% of the employees were Union- They made about $4-$5 dollars more per hour, they received paid lunches and better vacation time for actually doing less work (since Union Plants are usually cleaner)- The non Union guys started at around $9.00/hour in a job where people DIE, lose Limbs and expose themselves to god knows what and (possibly) health effects later in life.

-Guess which division the workers consecutively wanted to be part of?

Oh, and IWPC was VERY profitable- Lets see what happens now that they can use non union workers.



EDIT- Hell for 5K you can buy a NICE house in Detroit. The Old Ford mansion (if I remember correctly) was going for about 150K and was pristine (Historic home, on the water, elevaters, fully remodeled, decent area) Hell, they were PAYING people to move to Detroit (really.)

But to do this, you are a fool or just do not understand Detroit. You will die. LOL.

-Detroit is no joke- There are good areas, and Downtown is probably safer right now than almost anywhere- There are also areas the likes of which you would not drive through- Thats where most of these homes are. The idea the City had was to Pay people to move to Detroit (and improve the property) and its been a miserable failure. many people moved there, fixed the homes up and are now living elsewhere and still paying property taxes for a home nobody will buy in a warzone.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


Well i hope it works out better than you expect. Sometimes we get surprised with an outcome we expect to turn out differently. Happy holidays to you and good luck.

Originally posted by jimmiec
reply to post by DarKPenguiN

 

Well i hope it works out better than you expect. Sometimes we get surprised with an outcome we expect to turn out differently. Happy holidays to you and good luck.

Hey Happy Holidays to you as well. =)

I hope so too- I personally feel things are at a point where they will "balance" but the standard of living and working conditions are going to first get quite low. I feel for my (and your) children as they will never see the same opportunities that we (collectively) had.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


I have to agree but in the case of Detroit i think it would have to be uphill from here since Detroit has hit bottom. It will obviously take time. If they can get some Japanese manufacturers in there it would be a great thing because the Japanese pay well and take good care of their employees.