Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by ShotGunRum
the South had already declared secession BEFORE Lincoln was sworn in so technically, he had no Union to defend. by the time the 1st shot was
fired, a MAJORITY of states had already seceded ... Constitutionally, Lincoln really had no authority to intervene as he did.
your snipits of the declarations only highlight what YOU want them to ... unfortunately for you, i've read ALL of them from start to finish and yes,
slavery was included, it was an issue, no one has said it wasn't.
it WAS the industry of the region (right or wrong doesn't really matter in this discussion) and since the South provided the 4th largest
economy in the world at that time, it was important to everyone, not just the slave owners.
the North retained their slaves, after emancipation because there was NO path for their freedom until a Constitutional amendment was passed and
ratified, years later.
so, you accept the EP was a sham for the most part ?
and, we can agree that it was nothing more than an influential tactic to achieve another goal entirely ?
there were numerous European slaves and indentured servants all throughout the states, north and south.
btw, what's with New York being in the South, anyway?
NY was indeed a slave state or is this news for you ?
who knows, maybe you'll learn something
Your post is full of so much ignorance, falsehoods and half-truths.
New York banned slavery in 1799, so what was your point in bringing up New York? And yes, there were Caucasian/European indentured servants in
colonial America, but this phased out sometime in the 18th century (1700's). And if there were any Caucasian/European SLAVES pe se
in the US,
I for one have never heard about it.
You make all kinds of specious claims and cite nothing and link to nothing, but you have the audacity to demand that others do
Oh, and you complain when someone only quotes the pertinent passages of some historical document that makes that person's point. I guess they should
quote everything but that, because that would help to make your false point. lol:
While we are on the subject of citations, PUH-leeze provide one that backs up your claim that the South was the world's fourth largest economy at the
time of the Civil War.
A majority of states seceded from the Union? What bizarro-world American history are you referring to? There were 20 free states, five border slave
states and 11 insurrecting slave states. Eleven does not make a majority of 36. Or are you also using some bizarro-world mathematics? There was a
United States of America when Lincoln was inaugurated, albeit some states were in insurrection. So what? The Constitution give Congress the power to
wage war against insurrection, and the President executes this authority. Or do you also subscribe to some bizarro-world US constitution as well?:
As for industry, the South didn't have a whole lot, compared to the North. That is one of the many reasons the insurrectionists lost the Civil War.
And even if it did, BFD. the North's was larger by far. In any case, what does the South's economy in the 1860's have to do with what was the cause
of the US Civil War? Sounds like Johnny Reb is just making a lame attempt at chest thumping.
And no, I don't accept that the Emancipation Proclamation was a sham. It was a political move during a time of war and it helped the Union's war
effort; in addition it laid the ground work for the 13th Amendment. In any case, how was it a sham? It did what it proclaimed: that slaves in the
insurrecting states were freed. Please cite one instance of former southern slaves being returned to their former masters by Union forces; otherwise
it was not a sham. Was it full emancipation/manumission for all slaves in the US? NO. That was done with the 13th Amendment. The EP was issued on
Jan. 1, 1863; the 13th Amendment was adopted adopted in Dec., 1865, so yes, slaves in the border states had to wait three more years for emancipation.
I'll hazard a guess that if you asked any of them, they would say the wait to insure victory for the North was worth it.
As is typical with GOP'ers, Teabaggers and their fellow travelers, you are trying to prevaricate and misdirect. FAIL.
What's up with this revisionist history crap from the Southern sympathizers? You guys lost the last election, so now you are trying to rewrite US
history because you got nothing else? PATHETIC and DEMENTED
You're the one who needs to do some learning.
edit on 7-12-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)