Okay, I'm not really sure how much of this is even close to being based in what we call reality, but I must bring it up, anyway, so as to be... enlightened... as to the reality.

Plus, I'll bet it's been brought up before.

Weishaupt founded the Bavarian Illuminati in 1776, correct?

The Americans declared independence in 1776 too (this I know is right. well, according to the history books, anyway.)

Well, I've recently read stories about how after the Bavarian Illuminati was illegalized by the Bavarian govt., Weishaupt wasn't seen too much, and there was a subtle change in the personality of Washington. The theory goes on to say that Weishaupt possibly replaced Washington, and took over America for the time.

Also, about the Great Seal of the United States: Those appointed to create the seal were stumped; one of them (one of the more famous, possibly Franklin) stepped out for some air, met a cloaked figure, and the figure gave them the great seal. The stranger never left a name or any other trace.

Fact, Fiction, or combination thereof?

Originally posted by Solasis
Okay, I'm not really sure how much of this is even close to being based in what we call reality, but I must bring it up, anyway, so as to be... enlightened... as to the reality.

Plus, I'll bet it's been brought up before.

Weishaupt founded the Bavarian Illuminati in 1776, correct?

The Americans declared independence in 1776 too (this I know is right. well, according to the history books, anyway.)

Well, I've recently read stories about how after the Bavarian Illuminati was illegalized by the Bavarian govt., Weishaupt wasn't seen too much, and there was a subtle change in the personality of Washington. The theory goes on to say that Weishaupt possibly replaced Washington, and took over America for the time.

Also, about the Great Seal of the United States: Those appointed to create the seal were stumped; one of them (one of the more famous, possibly Franklin) stepped out for some air, met a cloaked figure, and the figure gave them the great seal. The stranger never left a name or any other trace.

Fact, Fiction, or combination thereof?

Hahaha, you're kidding, right?

As if a figure, writ as large as Washington could simply vanish and be replaced by another man? As for the seal, the committee that designed it is well documented, as were their efforts.

Why, I would ask, the great concern over the seal? If the illuminati or the masons were really behind "everything", why would they waste time and effort and secrecy by PUBLISHING it?

I mean, get real here.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Why, I would ask, the great concern over the seal? If the illuminati or the masons were really behind "everything", why would they waste time and effort and secrecy by PUBLISHING it?

To taunt those who recognized it, and as an inside joke. Plus, it doesn't really compromise them, as those of us who consider the possibility are always either conspiracy nuts, or most people think we're conspiracy nuts.

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by theron dunn
Why, I would ask, the great concern over the seal? If the illuminati or the masons were really behind "everything", why would they waste time and effort and secrecy by PUBLISHING it?

To taunt those who recognized it, and as an inside joke. Plus, it doesn't really compromise them, as those of us who consider the possibility are always either conspiracy nuts, or most people think we're conspiracy nuts.

Yeah,... I'll fess up. The Freemasons are secretly trying to take over the world. We even have time machines, commune with "grey" aliens from planet klatuu and have JFK' head alive in a jar...

But we can't organize a decent blood drive or get our Brothers in manual labor jobs into high powered careers...



It's a FRATERNITY man!!!

It's like a grown-up, no-girls-allowed treehouse with secret handshakes to get in,...
We wear our secret water-buffalo hats, say "nanoo nanoo" to each other, decide what nice thing we're going to do for the community, have some soup or a piece of pie and call it a night...



geesh...

Originally posted by JaseP
It's a FRATERNITY man!!!

It's like a grown-up, no-girls-allowed treehouse with secret handshakes to get in,...
We wear our secret water-buffalo hats, say "nanoo nanoo" to each other, decide what nice thing we're going to do for the community, have some soup or a piece of pie and call it a night...



geesh...

Really? Sign me up then, unless the meets are on Sunday's. That's NFL day.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by JaseP
It's a FRATERNITY man!!!

It's like a grown-up, no-girls-allowed treehouse with secret handshakes to get in,...
We wear our secret water-buffalo hats, say "nanoo nanoo" to each other, decide what nice thing we're going to do for the community, have some soup or a piece of pie and call it a night...



geesh...

Really? Sign me up then, unless the meets are on Sunday's. That's NFL day.

Masonic tradition does not allow any masonic events on Sunday... its a tradition older than football, though...

So, where do I send the petition?

Originally posted by Solasis
and took over America for the time.

Didn't martha notice? Or, uhm, anyone? I think that there is something of a connection between the actual bavarian illuminati and the american revolutionary movement, at least insofar as they were part of a general but uncoordinated 'liberty' movement during those times. The french were big on 'liberty fraternity and egalitarianism' no? The american revolution, especially in its early rabble rousing stage didn't happen in a vacuum, and it seems like some of what the 'Perfectibalists' wanted was what the revolutionaries wanted. Remember, the iluminati weren't exactly living in a free country back then.

The stranger never left a name or any other trace.

So a secret figure, literally in a cloak, gives them the seal? And no one but franklin knows it? Where does he say it happened, if its supposed ot have been a secret, how did anyone else ever find out?

Fact, Fiction, or combination thereof?

Fiction.

The design of the seal was a well documented process, and while it is true that Franklin participated, his design was set aside, and another was chosen...

DENY IGNORANCE

any idea as to what his design included?

I mean, the guy waned the turkey to be the national bird, so he must've had an interesting idea for the seal.

The turkey, I should say, is a stupid looking bird, but wouldn't been something of a good choice. They gather in large leks, and, instead of fighting amoung one another as a mob, organize into fraternities and compete between groups in a social way in order to get what they want and cooperate (in that case its for mates or displaying grounds), which makes something of a good analogy for the 13 colonies working together.

I also find the story interesting because it shows, as noble the intentions and as forthright and proper the founders were, they still said something like 'A turkey? Thats lame. OOOhh, lets make it an Eagle, yeah , Eagles are cooooool'.