Security Obsession Drives 100 Scientists from NASA

The rover mission and the data is public knowledge. The technology used in creating the rover I am sure is not. They most likely do not want the technology given to other countries, which is understandable. They did not go about this in the right way though.

reply to post by nighthawk1954


Haha, that's hilarious.

I'm actually being forced by NASA to get a security clearance to support a satellite right now. It's been vague directions, e-mail invitations from people who don't even work for NASA, trips to the local police department on my spare time, and about 17 full pages of personal information so far.

Originally posted by new_here
reply to post by nighthawk1954

 

There is a concept called "Grandfathered In" where a new rule does not apply to a group of people who were under a different set of rules, when the new rule began. NASA could have/should have left the long-term, valued scientists ALONE!!!

The gubberment could have very easily made this rule apply to all NEW employees and those who had been with them less than 5 years or so. The long-term employees should have been 'Grandfathered In' !

Anything else is ridiculous and the outcome will be detrimental to NASA in the long run. There will be a whole new crop hired, and the knowledge and continuity will be riddled with holes.

edit on 12/6/2012 by new_here because: (no reason given)

Just as a side note here ... when it comes to government security clearances and changes in what is needed to do a job, there is no grandfather clause. If your position falls under new rules that require you to have a higher clearance and you are unable to pass the checks required for that clearance, you're done, no questions asked. I have personally had to go through this change in clearance situation twice in the last three years - once just an expansion on the investigation that was done for my clearance, and once to do a full SSBI.

If that is actually what happened with these guys, it sucks, but them's the rules.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by nighthawk1954

 

Haha, that's hilarious.

I'm actually being forced by NASA to get a security clearance to support a satellite right now. It's been vague directions, e-mail invitations from people who don't even work for NASA, trips to the local police department on my spare time, and about 17 full pages of personal information so far.

Hmm, filling out eQip forms and doing fingerprinting at the station?

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by nighthawk1954

 

Haha, that's hilarious.

I'm actually being forced by NASA to get a security clearance to support a satellite right now. It's been vague directions, e-mail invitations from people who don't even work for NASA, trips to the local police department on my spare time, and about 17 full pages of personal information so far.

Hmm, filling out eQip forms and doing fingerprinting at the station?

Hahahahaaaa yes.
*cries* DAMN eQIP!!!!

What are they building that is not ordinary nuts and bolts.
The fuss is just about giving jobs to security forces.
Everyone on the job shuts up while the Illuminati press releases
say we got re engineered alien hardware.
Just more ability to lie as for making Atomic bombs in New Mexico
or NASA landing on the Moon or anything else requiring Illuminati
coverage.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Let's stop this charade for a minute and think about this from another perspective, devil's advocate if you will.

In an age where climate scientists face death threats over reporting changes in our climate, is it really wise to demonize NASA scientists as well?

Not all members of an organization toe the line to a "T". Always remember that.

reply to post by HairlessApe

Believe me it gets worse. Plus last change of company lost the data on most of us 2-3 times. We had to keep re-submitting it to them because they did not know what they had done with it.

There is no logical reason for this. The systems in place for the protection of rocket tech during the cold war wasnt enough? Hmmm.

As an earlier poster observed its simply a symptom of a culture being slowly eaten by its security apparatus. Its a simple progression.

-Land of the free
-Land of the mostly free
-Land of the 'free on balance when evaluated against safety'
-Land of the 'how dare you ask that, show me your id'
-Redacted

reply to post by nighthawk1954

I've read the TCBH article, and it's a very distorted description of the NASA v. Robert M. Nelson, et al. case. I won't address the article, because it's a very poor description of the case and gets a lot wrong. Here are the relevant facts surrounding the case itself:

These were not "security" investigations. They were credentialing investigations, based on NACIs. They do not even begin to approach the investigations used for granting security clearances. The JPL scientists behind the lawsuit were not being investigated for, or granted, security clearances.

NACIs are non-sensitive, low risk investigations. EVERY Federal employee gets at least this investigation, if not higher, and has done so since the Eisenhower administration. In my Department, EVERY contractor gets at least a NACI, if not higher, because we hold our contractors to the same standards as our employees. NASA did not hold their contractors to these standards, until HSPD-12 required a uniform set of standards for ID cards and access to physical and logical systems.

The NACI comprises a check of the FBI's criminal records, verification of the highest degree claimed, and written inquiries to the last five years' worth of employers asking if the subject screwed up on the job. It also requests local law enforcement records where the subject has admitted being arrested, sends written character inquiries to references identified by the subject, and checks other Federal registries or indexes as applicable. That's pretty much it. You'll get a more thorough background check moving into a new apartment or getting a real estate license. CalTech probably dug deeper into these guys' lives before they hired them.

Nelson, et al., did not believe that was all there was to the investigation. They relied on an obtuse interpretation of the SF-85 release of information, not supported by reality or how OPM actually conducts investigations. They spread a lot of FUD about how broad and deep these investigations were to drum up support. On their web page, they refer to NACIs as "investigations of unlimited scope," "open ended and unconstrained." A NACI is limited to the items in #3 above. After that, it ends. If an agency wants more than that, they have to pay for a reimbursable suitability investigation, and they only do that when they have really serious doubts about someone.

They also relied on a "suitability matrix" they found in a NASA manual. A few months after they filed their case, OPM released HSPD-12 adjudicative guidelines that made the entire issue of suitability matrices irrelevant. And even before then, the applicability of NASA's suitability matrix was questionable.

Here is Nelson et al.'s web site, complete with a spammy forum that everyone abandoned when it became clear their case was hopeless.

And here is what the Supreme Court had to say.

And of course, it has nothing to do with the Mars Rover, which was launched several years after the lawsuit started, or the Department of Homeland Security, which did not design the HSPD-12 criteria (that was Commerce) or enforce them upon NASA, which is an independent agency.

Dang! Furvus beat me to it by a few minutes.

This is not a "top secret security clearance" by any means. If you want the root cause, it's Homeland Security's HSPD-12. Go look it up. It requires positive identification of federal employees and contractors. It's not just JPL. It's not just NASA. We had to do this for our non-cleared employees recently.

Basically they do a once-over to make sure you aren't an obvious ringer. Are you who you said you were. That's it. Unless you aren't really Joe Schmidt, machinist, whom you identified yourself to me as being during your hiring process, in which case they will no doubt delve a bit deeper. But this is an ID check and not much more.

I doubt it's the Mars rover. However there was something else in recent news...

www.space.com...

Keeping in mind they plan on actually using this "gift" for a future project, they'll need people to do tear-downs for repurposing and that kind of stuff. Considering that similar hardware is likely still in use, you want the material associated with those satellites controlled so nobody else gets their hands on the bits still considered secret. In order to enforce those controls, they'll need to give clearances to people most likely to be associated with the upcoming project.

At least that's what would make sense from my perspective.

reply to post by pauljs75

It has nothing to do with the obsolete NRO hardware NASA acquired this year. It's about NASA's implementation of HSPD-12 in 2008. Your article even says NRO declassified the satellites, so no security clearances are required to poke around in them.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
reply to post by pauljs75

 

It has nothing to do with the obsolete NRO hardware NASA acquired this year. It's about NASA's implementation of HSPD-12 in 2008. Your article even says NRO declassified the satellites, so no security clearances are required to poke around in them.

i agree with you. i think this has been blown way out of proportion. my father who worked on the first 3 stage rocket booster many, many years ago (he died in 2006) told me that although the work was grueling and demanding, there were quite a few, uhmmm..."partiers" back then in NASA. hard work, hard play, type of thing.
plus, those guys had a lot of pride in their jobs as well as their country, and they are probably a little butt-hurt that anyone would accuse them of giving away secrets, or not being intelligent enough to keep vital information from coming up in casual conversation.

reply to post by PrplHrt


Yeah I was wondering the same thing. I don't think it has anything to do with the Rover as some already said. The military needs to get out of the way when it comes to NASA. Just form your own agency and leave the open one alone. Space and all it entails is the domain of all humanity. Secrecy is counterproductive in this case.

So we lost many brilliant minds.......great.

Edit:
Hey Thepupils, nice avatar....lol

- Forced to sign Non-disclosure agreements that offer severe penaltys .
-The fact that in todays world people WILL DEFINATELY leak data.
-An unwillingness to become martyrs for a cause all NASA people and everyone in the know realises is already lost,Keshe disclosed the tech and the game is over.
-all the data you need to build your own craft powered with an artificial neutral dimension field is available in the public domain,ALL of it,you can even build a natural "green"craft if you choose thanks to a certain Russian.
-USA,Canada,UK,Japan,and others will all need to answer for their decisions to collude together globally in this action of suppression spanning at least 70 years in the modern era.The National Defense story will not fly this time,people will want names and numbers and consequences.


I think EVERYONE in the know is aware that Keshe has blown the lid off of suppression already and this cannot ever be changed.The dominos are already falling and those who can step out of the way and stay out of the way are doing so right now,NASA employees can step aside and avoid the no-disclosure agreements and severe penaltys which control them by just leaving right now.who wouldnt bolt for the door,especially these days when we can watch hundreds of very old terminal men and women telling their deathbed truths,sorry powers that be but we believe them all,and so do the NASA people because some were their peers actually many were their peers.

No one wants to be connected to the biggest recorded crime against humanity in history,not in even the smallest way,many of these people are already hoping they will be forgiven for even being remotely connected to this issue of global suppression.

Of course there is life on mars,of course the tech used is suppressed,of course the government is stupid enough to try enslaving NASA people with legal agreements to shut them up.


None of this really matters ,just research Keshe and remember that he disclosed to hurt the US not to help humanity.And also remember that Keshe has only one method of generating the neutral dimension field,and he hasnt worked out the control and navigation issues,maybe no one has yet in the best way possible.Also remember that keshe is releasing the medical applications as well,this is very important.Some really big players are going down as we speak,they have already been given the terminal blow ,it just hasnt hit them yet they are staggering around disorientated and will soon start swinging blindly unless their is a massive leadership shift.

-bye bye oil control and money
-bye bye pharmacutical control and money
-bye bye utility control and money
I could go on but why revel in it,this is simply evolution of humanity at last in a normal sequence without suppression.

Everyone should also stay calm when the navigational and control issues are worked out because there will be some seriously earth shattering disclosure surrounding the hows and whys of these aspects of the best form of the technology.

Kudos to all the NASA people who chose to not sell out humanity and left before they were forced to sign their voices away to the government,I am sure we will soon be hearing and seeing the most incredible things from all of them very soon on an internet site near you!!!

Remember this ,Disclosure is over ,it is done,Keshe did it,now we can let the Magnetic Revolution gain momentum and begin to change our world.

Math ans science and physics are ALL being re-written as we speak,magnetics is and has always been the key to the universe,or lets say the word magnetics is as close as I can manage,and for all intents and purposes it is close enough.

Make some popcorn,grab something to drink and sit back for the show,this is getting better by the day.Dont stress out,money drives everything and soon competition will explode as countrys who are already prepared start pounding this tech out all over the world.

Again,great job NASA people save your integrity,you are all very brave and true humanitarians.And I doubt anyone will need to look very hard for a new job,the world has changed VERY fast in the last 24 mths,and is picking up even more momentum right now.

-