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The diminishing Republican brand.

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posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by interupt42
 


In order for a politician to be of value to a Lobbyist and rake in campaign contributions and other goodies...they must be a politician. So while Politicians might be beholden to lobbyists...they are more beholden to voters, cuz without thier job, they are worthless to lobbyists.

I guess what I am getting at is that "we the people" share some of the blame for the corruption in DC. We can dedicate hours of air-time to gay marriage, but campaign finance reform? Grover Norquist had a nice run with his pledge...why not a pledge to reform campaign laws? Not accept money from PACs that refuse to disclose thier donors? etc. etc.


I agree that an unelected politician is powerless. However, you assume that voters have a choice to NOT pick one of their selected politicians.

Come election time, who do you get to pick from. The guy you want or the guy that the RNC or the DNC picked for you to select from?


I get what you are saying, but am not one to throw in the towel and sigh...alas...ther is nothing we can do.

I'd rather go down kicking and in this country I know I am not alone.




posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by longlostbrother

More sour grapes from a few angry rich white losers.
edit on 6-12-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)


First off, not white.

Secondly, glad you and your ilk are finally going to take ownership of the economy!



Who said you were white?

The party you support is however.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


I could care less about the GOP as a whole and even less for the Dems.

I want other parties to join the fracas.


If I had my druthers, parties would be made illegal.

I dislike the GOP and despise the DNC. Niether speaks for me. I think for myself, thank you.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 



They have NOT learned any lessons from there huge loss in 2012 and the fringe is instead doubling-down on the crazy.


They have learned - there's just some postmortem spasms that have to happen first

4 years from now I think we are going to see a brand-spanking new flavor of GOP

I for one will welcome them with open arms - even when I disagree with them



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by narwahl
 


Isn't anyone who votes for the way things are and keeping them the same, the looters and moochers?

The independent mind is at risk in todays age.
edit on 6-12-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
www.abovetopsecret.com...

here ya go longlost, this may explain some things


It certainly outlines the long running attempts by the GOP to commit voter fraud...

Hilarious all the wing-nuts freaking out about this... especially considering the ONLY actions ever taken because of this are:

- Democrats repeatedly using the decision to challenge Republican attempts to suppress minority voters
- Republicans trying to get it thrown out

Maybe if they hadn't engaged in voter fraud they wouldn't be in this position in the first place... they chose to lose their ability to contest in exchange for letting their party continue to exist... hilarity.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by interupt42
 


In order for a politician to be of value to a Lobbyist and rake in campaign contributions and other goodies...they must be a politician. So while Politicians might be beholden to lobbyists...they are more beholden to voters, cuz without thier job, they are worthless to lobbyists.

I guess what I am getting at is that "we the people" share some of the blame for the corruption in DC. We can dedicate hours of air-time to gay marriage, but campaign finance reform? Grover Norquist had a nice run with his pledge...why not a pledge to reform campaign laws? Not accept money from PACs that refuse to disclose thier donors? etc. etc.


I agree that an unelected politician is powerless. However, you assume that voters have a choice to NOT pick one of their selected politicians.

Come election time, who do you get to pick from. The guy you want or the guy that the RNC or the DNC picked for you to select from?


I get what you are saying, but am not one to throw in the towel and sigh...alas...ther is nothing we can do.

I'd rather go down kicking and in this country I know I am not alone.



I'm not throwing in the towel either and their is something that we can do and its what I'm trying to do.

That is , to wake the people up and make them realize that the game being played is not democrats versus republicans but rather Americans versus (Politicians & lobbyist). By continuing to fight among ourselves and pretending that their is a difference they continue laughing to the bank and nothing will change.

After the people wake up maybe democrats and republicans then can proceed to the next phase. Temporarily put aside political ideals where they differ and concentrate on the more important ideals that both parties agree on.

Sure on economic,healthcare,SS and other type issues there are great differences when it comes to party ideals. However, when it comes to corruption both party should agree that neither ideals is going to get implemented when money is the political driver.

Thirdly when you remove (as best as you can) the monetary influences in DC then we can actually go back to arguing about which party is better. Until you remove the overwhelming monetary influences in Washington its naive to think that either party isn't working for its primary drivers and main source of survival, MONEY. Without money they can't even run.


So in essence we need to confront the real issue and come together instead of sticking our heads in the sand and pretend that we are still in control of our politicians.
edit on 6-12-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by narwahl
 


Isn't anyone who votes for the way things are and keeping them the same, the looters and moochers?

The independent mind is at risk in todays age.
edit on 6-12-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)


No.

That's just you misunderstanding what a social safety net is, misunderstanding how the founding Fathers felt about tax and public education, and misunderstanding the scope of corporate handouts and which party they benefit most.

Why do you think billionaire were funding Romney?

Why would the GOP chose a candidate with millions in offshore accounts?

What do you think Jefferson woulda thought about Romney? Or Washington, who forced the rich to pay taxes at the end of a gun? Or Thomas Paine, who believed in a social safety net?

Or moyabe those Founding Fathers are not American enough for you?



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by longlostbrother

It certainly outlines the long running attempts by the GOP to commit voter fraud...



You can say the same about the DNC. Government control is a game of high stakes.

You know the saying right?

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't tryin.'"

Still doesn't make it right though. I would love to see a honest government at least for four years in my lifetime.

Of course National Security has to remain behind closed doors lest we tip our hand.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by longlostbrother
 



They have NOT learned any lessons from there huge loss in 2012 and the fringe is instead doubling-down on the crazy.


They have learned - there's just some postmortem spasms that have to happen first

4 years from now I think we are going to see a brand-spanking new flavor of GOP

I for one will welcome them with open arms - even when I disagree with them


I'd actually like you to be right, but think you are 100% wrong... look at the behaviour of the right-wing dead-enders in Congress... pathetic. And more of the same..



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by narwahl
 


Isn't anyone who votes for the way things are and keeping them the same, the looters and moochers?

The independent mind is at risk in todays age.
edit on 6-12-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)


This makes no sense. I like change only when stuff isn't working as it is. Looters and Moochers don't enter into it. Also the party that wanted to make looting easier lost. While this is regrettable for the looters, i am glad for the looted.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


You and me just understand things differently. I'm ok with that. I have struggled my entire life to get were I am at.

I believe in competition. I believe that you earn your keep.

I could get behind Obama if he re-established the "CCC". Lord knows the U.S. needs it now. And it would give people needed skills and help the country as a whole.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by longlostbrother

It certainly outlines the long running attempts by the GOP to commit voter fraud...



You can say the same about the DNC. Government control is a game of high stakes.

You know the saying right?

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't tryin.'"

Still doesn't make it right though. I would love to see a honest government at least for four years in my lifetime.

Of course National Security has to remain behind closed doors lest we tip our hand.


Well, Libertarians want to completely and utterly deregulate lobbying and lobbyists.. and allow corporate monopolies... I'll let you guess if that will bring more of less corruption...

The far left on the other hand wants to destroy corporate personhood and, as voters, would love to completely remove corporate money from DC... well... that's what everyone on the left I know and read wants...

the choice is yours... but let me just say, it;s not just the money, its the entire system... the US needs to switch to proportional representations, which will immediately allow a lot more small parties into the system... but that'd take a constitutional amendment of two...



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by narwahl

This makes no sense. I like change only when stuff isn't working as it is. Looters and Moochers don't enter into it. Also the party that wanted to make looting easier lost. While this is regrettable for the looters, i am glad for the looted.


So, you're for the moochers? The ones who take your hard earned money and spend it on frivilous things? The ones that give nothing back to society but constantly take?

The looters are the Government.

The moochers are the ones who do not contribute.

So, I guess you are ok with that?



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by longlostbrother
 


You and me just understand things differently. I'm ok with that. I have struggled my entire life to get were I am at.

I believe in competition. I believe that you earn your keep.

I could get behind Obama if he re-established the "CCC". Lord knows the U.S. needs it now. And it would give people needed skills and help the country as a whole.


NO.

I completely believe in competition, for business, but don't think that model works for governement or society.

I am a small business owner and a hardcore capitalist, but I agree with Thomas Paine and Thomas Jeffereson - taxes suck, but they're necessary for society. General welfare includes education and healthcare.

The US healthcare and education systems are awful right now, aside from a few obvious examples in higher education... free market solutions aren't working and neither are right-wing "teach to the test" policies... or Romney's, "ER's are the poor's healthcare system" nonsense.

My attitude is look at what works, and do that.

Look at the best cheapest healthcare systems and do that.

Look at the best education systems and do that.

Truly, that is letting the market decide.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by narwahl

This makes no sense. I like change only when stuff isn't working as it is. Looters and Moochers don't enter into it. Also the party that wanted to make looting easier lost. While this is regrettable for the looters, i am glad for the looted.


So, you're for the moochers? The ones who take your hard earned money and spend it on frivilous things? The ones that give nothing back to society but constantly take?

The looters are the Government.

The moochers are the ones who do not contribute.

So, I guess you are ok with that?


There's literally almost no one that doesn't contribute in America. You wanna hate people in comas or disabled vets or the elderly living on the pensions they paid into, grand... but that's about it... America is not full of moochers, not even close...



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by narwahl
 


Isn't anyone who votes for the way things are and keeping them the same, the looters and moochers?

The independent mind is at risk in todays age.
edit on 6-12-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)


No.

That's just you misunderstanding what a social safety net is, misunderstanding how the founding Fathers felt about tax and public education, and misunderstanding the scope of corporate handouts and which party they benefit most.

Why do you think billionaire were funding Romney?

Why would the GOP chose a candidate with millions in offshore accounts?

What do you think Jefferson woulda thought about Romney? Or Washington, who forced the rich to pay taxes at the end of a gun? Or Thomas Paine, who believed in a social safety net?

Or moyabe those Founding Fathers are not American enough for you?


Or why did Obama and Romney share top Top Contributors
www.opensecrets.org...
www.opensecrets.org...

Or why did the RNC pick the one guy who actually implemented a gov't mandated healthcare system to bad talk and repeal a gov't mandated healthcare system?

Why because they wanted OBAMACARE to pass no matter who got elected. Why, because both party work for the same motivational driver, lobbyist money.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Well, lookie here! We agree.


I think that the Repubs are cruisin' for a bruisin if they do not shape up. But I also think that the Dems are as well in the near future.

What the U.S. needs is, hard, in your face government, backed by facts.

"We have to cut this...we have to cut that. Because we can't afford it!"

But the people don't want to hear it.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by narwahl

Originally posted by beezzer
Here's what I know.

Obama is holding 98% of America hostage.

He (Obama) will not sign any bill unless it contains tax raises for the 2%. So unless he gets what he wants, he will screw us over with all of us getting to pay higher taxes.

The republicans ARE weak sauce, they are a pitiful disgusting shadow of what they could be. Ironically enough, despite the fact that they (the GOP) are pathetic, they are still heads and shoulders above the progressives who have infected the American political system.


Wrong.
The Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year.
There is a bill that reinstates them for 98%
It passed the senate
Pelosi forced that discharge thingy in the house on tuesday.
Now they need 218 votes to bring the bush tax cut prolongation onto the floor, despite Boehner not scheduling it.


Yep. Trust me, the middle-class tax cuts aren't going anywhere - they are here to stay. I think everyone in Congress is fully aware of exactly how it will go down. The GOP knows they've lost this fight - there's just got to be some political posturing and chest-beating for the benefit of their base.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Let me clarify, when I say moochers, I'm not talking about people in comas, Disabled Vets (of which I am one) or those who have contributed to Social Security. People do need to be taken care of.

I'm talking about welfare queens and those who work the system in order to freeload off it. All without doing a hour of honest days work.





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