Why do some people doubt Near Death Experiences?

I shall start by calling myself a hypocrite. I had an NDE a few years back, prior to that I didn't believe in them. I didn't have a place in my belief set that would allow me to think that you could enter a spiritual realm and then return and I am a Christian. When I was 4, I was accidentally poisoned and had to have my stomach pumped, at that time I had an out of body experience; but, that was all it was, I looked down on myself from above. As I got older I just assumed the trauma of the moment had caused me to not remember things correctly. The NDE I had was completely different, a full blown spiritual experience which I also did not believe in until experiencing it.

Now, personally I don't really care if anyone believes me and I refuse to discuss any specifics. I am just laying out where I am coming from to ask a question. Many people have had NDEs, one of the moderators wrote about his and there are just too many people saying very similar things to all be lying. There is a man who had a truck fall on him, he lost most of his intestines and should be dead. He claims he had a spiritual experience. Why would he lie, why would all of these people who almost died lie and make up the same story all across the world? Do some of them lie, I am positive some do; but, not all. And consider this, very few wanted to come back here.

So what are the options, the only likely one is that it is a common delusion that occurs when their is no electrical activity in the brain. Then what we believe about the brain is wrong? There are people that absolutely refuse to even consider that these experiences are real and those are the people I want to hear from. I would like to know from people who don't believe these experiences are real, I want to know why they don't believe any of them?

Originally posted by AQuestion
I shall start by calling myself a hypocrite. I had an NDE a few years back, prior to that I didn't believe in them. I didn't have a place in my belief set that would allow me to think that you could enter a spiritual realm and then return and I am a Christian. When I was 4, I was accidentally poisoned and had to have my stomach pumped, at that time I had an out of body experience; but, that was all it was, I looked down on myself from above. As I got older I just assumed the trauma of the moment had caused me to not remember things correctly. The NDE I had was completely different, a full blown spiritual experience which I also did not believe in until experiencing it.

Now, personally I don't really care if anyone believes me and I refuse to discuss any specifics. I am just laying out where I am coming from to ask a question. Many people have had NDEs, one of the moderators wrote about his and there are just too many people saying very similar things to all be lying. There is a man who had a truck fall on him, he lost most of his intestines and should be dead. He claims he had a spiritual experience. Why would he lie, why would all of these people who almost died lie and make up the same story all across the world? Do some of them lie, I am positive some do; but, not all. And consider this, very few wanted to come back here.

So what are the options, the only likely one is that it is a common delusion that occurs when their is no electrical activity in the brain. Then what we believe about the brain is wrong? There are people that absolutely refuse to even consider that these experiences are real and those are the people I want to hear from. I would like to know from people who don't believe these experiences are real, I want to know why they don't believe any of them?

www.samharris.org...

I read that article the other day which might interest you

'___' is one of the most powerful hallucinogens on the planet..

To try an answer your question/ title directly, because most people have never had and never will have a near death experience.

As humans we tend to believe with our eyes, to believe that which only we can see, the rest be damned.

And so until most of us perish and die, we will question...


SS

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Dear GrandStrategy,

However, the deepest problem with drawing sweeping conclusions from the NDE is that those who have had one and subsequently talked about it did not actually die.

That is what the author said that you linked to. That is pretty weak logic on his part and I already addressed it. What about those who actually died, there are plenty of them. Are they all lying? The fact that some people were clinically found dead makes it even easier to just look at the one that were found clinically dead. What if we just consider the people who were clinically dead and atheists. There are still too many to count.

reply to post by homeslice


Dear homeslice,

I would never recommend anyone take '___' or '___'. NDEs are not intentional.

Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
To try an answer your question/ title directly, because most people have never had and never will have a near death experience.

As humans we tend to believe with our eyes, to believe that which only we can see, the rest be damned.

And so until most of us perish and die, we will question...


SS

Dear Spike Spiegle,

I cannot possibly imagine why anyone would actually want to have an NDE. I understand questioning them. I guess I am more interested in those who claim it is impossible. It is not impossible, many people have reported them. A 12 year old boy gets frozen in a lake, he is taken to the hospital and recovers and then he tells what the doctors did to him and that he went into a spiritual place, why would someone like that wake up and immediately lie about what happened? And in a way that is exactly why I won't discuss the specifics of mine, why bother, people will believe or not; but, they will not look at the facts objectively regardless of which position they take.

reply to post by AQuestion


People will always doubt until they are shown what they need to believe... In some cases an NDE is what is required... Although that seems to be a drastic measure... It may be what said person needs...

On the other hand some people just arn't meant to understand

One thing is for sure... There are no atheists within the ranks of those who experience an NDE

reply to post by AQuestion


I was talking about the potential for that natural '___' being released in your brain during a NDE, like what happens when you die and when you dream. Would explain these "religious experiences" people claim to have.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion

 

People will always doubt until they are shown what they need to believe... In some cases an NDE is what is required... Although that seems to be a drastic measure... It may be what said person needs...

On the other hand some people just arn't meant to understand

One thing is for sure... There are no atheists within the ranks of those who experience an NDE

Dear Akragon,

I always enjoy talking with you.

Yeah, maybe some of us need them. I hate thinking that way, kinda of makes me wonder what I did wrong. I wasn't one of those who wanted to come back. Oh well even that is messed up. Your last sentence is really true, they may not become Christians; but, they cease doubting that there is something beyond this place and that we are spiritual in nature.

My observation from what I have read and my own experience is that while they often commonalities, they seem to be very unique and individualized also. It is as if they are personalized in the specifics for a reason that I cannot fathom. Still, it strains all logic to believe that all of these people are lying considering the situations many of them were in that led to the NDE. Peace dear friend.

Originally posted by homeslice
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I was talking about the potential for that natural '___' being released in your brain during a NDE, like what happens when you die and when you dream. Would explain these "religious experiences" people claim to have.

Dear homeslice,

Okay, but why the release of '___' have an effect if the brain registered absolutely no electrical activity? In the instances where someone was frozen and returned, it is unlikely any chemical reaction would matter.

reply to post by AQuestion

Yeah, maybe some of us need them. I hate thinking that way, kinda of makes me wonder what I did wrong.

Let me make some Assumptions here... Before your last NDE you were stuborn in your beliefs... Solid on the idea that the spirit does not exist... Correct?

Therea an interesting passage in the bible that says... No one goes to heaven except those that came from heaven... And if we forget our true origin after birth... Then unfortunatly some people who refuse to believe what they are shown... Need a good boot in the ass to recall what they truely are...

Its not that you did anything wrong...

You were just shown what you needed to see... And as i've said... In some cases it takes something drastic

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

You always ask good questions and I will try and really think about what I believed back in the day. We will call that time BW, Before it got weird. LOL.

Let me make some Assumptions here... Before your last NDE you were stuborn in your beliefs... Solid on the idea that the spirit does not exist... Correct?

I was a believing Christian and certainly living that way. I believed we were to live a life of love and forgiveness. I believed in heaven and an after life; but, I didn't have and still don't have a clear idea of what that afterlife is like. The thing that happened at 4 was relatively easy to dismiss as I got older, so, it didn't turn me into someone who believed in NDEs or anything. I had not even heard the term at the time, this was 49 years ago. I have almost died a number of times; but, no NDEs except the last time. I was even accidentally poisoned again in later life and other than being horrified to find my tongue had turned black, no spiritual experience accompanied it (turned out to be a fungus) I was having an adverse reaction to an antibiotic which killed off my natural protection and it turned out I was highly allergic to it.

Okay, here is the answer. I had to think a bit. I honestly believed that there was a spirit world, heaven if you will; but, I absolutely believed you only got to go there once. I did not believe we could or should seek to interact with the spirit world. This is funny, I did believe that you could interact with bad spirits if you so chose; but, could not imagine wanting to do that. I guess I thought that was all that a normal person could connect with. I reserved thoughts of interacting with the good side as reserved for the few people mentioned in the bible. Like I said in my OP, I am a hypocrite. I didn't believe anyone else until I had mine.

Thank you for helping me look at this in a different manner. Maybe you were right, maybe it was the kick in the behind that I needed to understand how real it is. Sort of like going from the hypothetical Tahiti to the real Tahiti. My whole life I have wanted to go there and never have, I have an image in my mind of Tahiti. I had set aside money to go there when I graduated from graduate school. I got married instead. It is very unlikely I will get to Tahiti, maybe I saw the afterlife the same way, a place you never get to see until you die for good.

Originally posted by homeslice
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I was talking about the potential for that natural '___' being released in your brain during a NDE, like what happens when you die and when you dream. Would explain these "religious experiences" people claim to have.

It wouldn't explain when people see and hear everything the doctors are saying and doing while they are dead, or when they see and hear what family members are saying and doing outside the operating room.