Boehner close to conceding! Ultra wealthy to pay more taxes!

There you have it, folks. Against his corporate handlers' wishes, Boehner inches closer to reality. Taxes MUST go up for the top 2%ers. Let the robe-tearing and gnashing of teeth begin, conservative ats'ers!


Via CNN.COM

From the article:

"Washington (CNN) -- Taxes on the wealthy are going up, House Speaker John Boehner conceded Wednesday in challenging President Barack Obama to sit down with him to hammer out a deal for avoiding the fiscal cliff.

Obama, however, continued to insist on Republicans first ensuring no tax hike for anyone but the top 2% of Americans as a first step toward a broader agreement on tackling the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt. (...)"

reply to post by Snoopy1978


No gnashing of teeth here.......I could see it coming! But then again, in my younger days I used to believe that professional wrestling was real!

I think all of you who have allowed youselves to be consumed by the faux two party system will be gnashing your teeth when the day SOON comes that you realize YOU ALL have been duped by these criminals that you depended on saving you!

Your first clue should come in about three months when the bankers devalue the dollar and we realize that a $2 dollar loaf of bread will require a wheelbarrow full of useless paper currency courtesy of the Federal Reserve Bank!

So get out your pom poms and cheer on the progressive victory. We will ALL see how long that lasts. Wait till Detroit finds out their savior has left the building........

reply to post by seeker1963


Are you denying the fact that the wealthy have not been pulling their fiscal weight and, furthermore, lobbying for special treatment on the backs of the middle and poor classes? Deregulation, tax cuts, bailouts free trade agreements. All these amounted to trillions in handouts for the "job creators", as conservative pundits like to call them. Where are the jobs? The largest recession since the great depression and the wealthy are wealthier than ever.

Both parties catered heavely towards the mega rich while feeding the middle and poor classes to the wolves. Dems and republicans. Both are scum in that aspect. Im talking about the reality of the situation here, not party politics. What needs to be done needs to be done, dont you agree?

Really want to talk about those who are not "pulling their fiscal weight" ?

Like the middle class who is only paying 4% from payroll taxes, and then those people who are in that top 2 % are matching that contribution, and it does not cover the revenue deficit when they use those programs.

The top 2% are those who make 200k and upwards which translates in to millions of middle class workers, but hey who cares right.

Gonna make the evil rich pay come hell or highwater!

That is not going to fix a damn thing.

Boehner caves he is worthless.

The first thing to remember is that the richer you are the easier it is to not pay your fair share.

My old boss setup a company in Hong Kong (11% income tax rate at the time) to "provide" our Canadian shop with computer parts.

There is the genius of his plan, his Canadian company can be charged more for every part from his Hong Kong company and in the end make little or no real profit and not pay much tax. Here he would have paid close to 40% income taxe on his earnings in Canada.

Now his Hong Kong office can have a major profit and he pays himself out of that company or pays a relative doesn't really matter.

No one audits a company so completely to find out if they are paying a fair rate for items purchased.

Check out the nifty work by Ebay

(Reuters) - Britain and Germany may have missed out on a combined $1 billion in sales tax since online marketplace eBay picked a tiny Luxembourg office as its base for EU sales, a shift that lawmakers say should now be investigated.

EBay's nomination of Luxembourg unit eBay Europe Sarl - with a staff of nine - as its provider of services to EU clients allows it to charge customers in Europe a low rate of sales tax, often known as Value Added Tax, helping it to compete against rivals.

However, the unit doesn't actually receive the money from sales. Instead, eBay said it continues to channel revenues through a Berne-based unit, allowing the company also to benefit from what Swiss tax lawyers say is the most competitive corporate income tax regime in Europe.

EU rules allow companies to establish subsidiaries in Luxembourg and levy VAT at Luxembourg's low VAT rate on sales to customers across the bloc.

However, the rules also allow individual EU taxmen to challenge any claim to Luxembourg residence, and the right to charge Luxembourg VAT, in their domestic courts, if the taxman feels a Luxembourg-based subsidiary does not have sufficient staff or assets to support its claim to be the true supplier of goods or services.

Tax experts say eBay's arrangement, which appears to give eBay the best of both income and sales tax worlds, could be open to challenge, and lawmakers in the UK and Germany want their taxmen to investigate.

It is not illegal to operate a business and have no profit, you are just supposed to anticipate it to be profitable.

I used to know a professional wrestler. He wrestled at the "Chase" in St. Louis on the weekends and farmed the rest of the week. He was a real wrestler and had the cauliflower ears to prove it.

I never thought the stuff on TV was real.

Congress thinks they are professional wrestlers. They also think that we are like you were a long time ago. Mostly they think this way because we allow them to get away with so much BS. We let them pass legislation and rules that allow more money to be pumped into campaigning than most nuke wielding countries spend on their military budgets.

Congress is outdated and useless. It is just a club of wealthy a-holes who sit around BS'ing about their golf game and making side deals for money. Real change will come when citizens take their government back and stop the corporate control. Getting things done is just a matter of time because the only people who don't know this is happening are the people in power right now. Congress was over last year when they played the BS card over the budget and would rather see the country default than agree to higher taxes for their donors who hired them and pay them to pass their legislation.

There are enough patriots who understand the travesties our government performs daily around the world and her in America. The great majority of people in America are waking up to just how corrupt our government has become. They will soon be seeking justice and eventually reform that removes corporate influence from any governmental agency ESPECIALLY in monetary forms.

Regulators should NEVER be paid by those whom they regulate. Politicians should not be able to take money from donors or lobbyists period. Their office should be one of public service such as serving on a jury. Each person has an obligation to pitch in for their government in a democracy. If we did make sacrifices for the greater good we would be far richer and happier as a nation and the rest of the world would be filled with envy instead of hatred.

When the best scam running is politics the truly great scam artists will be politicians.

reply to post by Snoopy1978

Are you denying the fact that the wealthy have not been pulling their fiscal weight and, furthermore, lobbying for special treatment on the backs of the middle and poor classes? Deregulation, tax cuts, bailouts free trade agreements. All these amounted to trillions in handouts for the "job creators", as conservative pundits like to call them. Where are the jobs? The largest recession since the great depression and the wealthy are wealthier than ever.

Both parties catered heavely towards the mega rich while feeding the middle and poor classes to the wolves. Dems and republicans. Both are scum in that aspect. Im talking about the reality of the situation here, not party politics. What needs to be done needs to be done, dont you agree?
edit on 5-12-2012 by Snoopy1978 because: Ipad

I DO AGREE, that the "wealthy" are scamming us. But who is allowing them to do it??? Please just don't say it is the Republicans, because I can guarantee that the Dems are just as guilty as caving into lobbyists and special interest groups as are the Republicans!

But to say that a person who makes $200,000 dollars or more is responsible for our demise, when in fact we have millionares in Congress/Senate who kiss the rings of those who our MULTI millionares and billionares and then portray to us that they care or our looking out for our best interests as a nation is just freakin unbelievable in my eyes.

How can anyone look at either party and put the blame on just one, when they have all had their turns since 1913 (I put that date for a reason, anyone who supports either party and are not familiar with the importance of that date, I suggest you do some research, you might want to also google Jekyll Island) but yet we are in this bad of shape???????

Better yet, look at what the bankers have done to Greece, and Spain. Look at the Eurozone!!! This crap has been designed by the bankers to control everything!! But yet, we put our faith in the criminal two party system to save us??????? Do the math on 16 plus trillion dollars of fake debt!!! Yes! FAKE! The Federal Reserve banks creates money out of freakin air and LOANS it to our government, WITH INTEREST, but YET, the Federal Reserve Bank has NOTHING to back up the so called fake money that they print!!! WE CAN"T PAY IT BACK! Can anyone say slavery??? Yea I said it! They don't have to pay it back, WE DO!! We have a better chance of aliens wiping our planet out on Dec. 21st than paying back that amount of money plus interest! All the fiscal cliff crap is, is nothing more than the criminals trying to dig up enough money to continue to pay to RUN our government! NOT a damn thing to do with paying off the debt, because they know it is IMPOSSIBLE!

For them to tell us the truth, means that they will sign their own death warrant for continueing the charade that they have been doing for years....

Check this out! Derivatives, you know how we go to Vegas and can bet on almost anything? Well bankers bet on derivatives in much the same way. The only difference is that they do not have to have the cash to do it. Remember the bailout. Take a look at these numbers.....
JPMorgan Chase

Total Assets: $1,812,837,000,000 (just over 1.8 trillion dollars)

Total Exposure To Derivatives: $69,238,349,000,000 (more than 69 trillion dollars)

Citibank

Total Assets: $1,347,841,000,000 (a bit more than 1.3 trillion dollars)

Total Exposure To Derivatives: $52,150,970,000,000 (more than 52 trillion dollars)

Bank Of America

Total Assets: $1,445,093,000,000 (a bit more than 1.4 trillion dollars)

Total Exposure To Derivatives: $44,405,372,000,000 (more than 44 trillion dollars)

Goldman Sachs

Total Assets: $114,693,000,000 (a bit more than 114 billion dollars – yes, you read that correctly)

Total Exposure To Derivatives: $41,580,395,000,000 (more than 41 trillion dollars)

That means that the total exposure that Goldman Sachs has to derivatives contracts is more than 362 times greater than their total assets.

Source

Can anyone else see this unfolding?

Originally posted by neo96


Gonna make the evil rich pay come hell or highwater!

That is not going to fix a damn thing.

Boehner caves he is worthless.

i reeally think that Boehner+republicans are doing a dog-&-pony show about upping the taxes on the top money receivers (i will not call them wage earners, because they earn very little, they only skirt the legal fringes to command extremely high compensation & golden-parachute packages--- which we all pay for in some manner)


but--- the Øbama propaganda of insisting on tax hikes on the ultra rich...because he got reelected is a pile of BS
A 'mandate' only in his brain damaged worldview.


when the republican leader caves...he is handing over carte' blanch to the wanna-be dictator

reply to post by neo96


In Florida and many other states you have 3 years to show a profit. If you cannot show a profit in 3 years you must reorganize, change your name and start over.

Boner is a weasel just like the rest of them. To say he should not cave to the evil Democrats is insane. You think that all jobs come from GE or XOM due to your support of the 2%. I disagree as do many others who are not on the corporate payroll while creating their "Statistics". Money is what makes rules. In a democracy that is not only wrong, but criminal.

Everyone who is elected and has received money from lobbyists or donors is a criminal. Our country will be a better place when real reform is passed to exclude corporate buyouts of politicians and entire governments.

Originally posted by BrianG
The first thing to remember is that the richer you are the easier it is to not pay your fair share.
There is the genius of his plan, his Canadian company can be charged more for every part from his Hong Kong company and in the end make little or no real profit and not pay much tax. Here he would have paid close to 40% income taxe on his earnings in Canada.

Transfer pricing is a well known rort, and many countries have regulations governing it already, with more moving in that direction all the time.

Canada has its own set of rules

It is amazing that, if you make a million dollars, paying 36% of it to the federal government, 10+% to whatever state you live in, and another 5-6% to your city isn't considered to be enough by the same people who consider a 2.5% presidential margin of victory a "mandate" to screw the entirety of the nation.

How about this idea, everybody recognizes that the act of "greed" isn't classically defined as wanting to hold onto what you already have made, but the classical definition of "envy" is absolutely wanting to take what is not yours? It is beyond asinine to think that working individuals and families are "greedy" for wanting to keep the dollars THEY earned. The greedy here are a hodgepodge of the government which has failed to remember their place as servants of the people and the Americans who happily crap on the American ideal of rejecting socialism and communism because the government is gifting them all their needs in life via wealth redistribution.

Why do we phrase it “Tax the wealthy/rich” instead of
Calling it Taxing “the SUCCESSFUL”?

There is no plan for helping people become successful

reply to post by neo96


Thanks for that it seems that people are forgetting that the working class is actually the one that pays for the poor class benefits.

The rich have nothing to lose, that means the filthily rich no the working class rich.

The propaganda machine is doing a great job obfuscating Americans into believing that they are doing everything for them, get what at the end the losers are again the working class in the nation.

Obama care taxes to hit American households next year is not for the rich or the poor is for us the working class.

But once again you can not tell the truth because the government knows it all.

People get it, we all getting screwed.

The travesty here is those who fall for the class rhetoric and mantra that says "if only the rich paid more" it'll all be OK.

Bullcrap the entire thing is a sideshow to deflect you from a government out of control with politicians spending any and all amounts of public money to get your vote.

The poster above who nicely detailed derivitive exposure and assets of the big banks and financial houses painted the right picture as it stands.

I call bullcrap because its easy to look up the fact that even if the top 2% paid 100% of earnings it'd still make little difference in the deficit and interest payments. Thats just the truth.

The only mathmatically proven solution in any reasonable amount of time that counters built in exponential growth of the deficit requires a contraction of government spending somewhere like 40% to 60% which would result in rioting in the streets for sure.

10 years ago it was a painful but doable number around 15% of spending that would have done it.

History says anything over 17% - 21% sustained government share of GDP depresses revenue to government. When if ever we get politicians who'll comply with that simple truism is day we start to recover of course they'd have to be willing to spend much less each year to retire the current debt.

So off the cliff we go................................................

Meanwhile the politicians and cooperative media promote class warfare as a means to maintain control by giving you an outlet to vent your frustation on those who did work the system in the past but only as your elected representitives allowed them to do. Now the jigs up and they don't want your anger coming down on them so they have to paint a boogyman for that.

Keep believing the mantra and you are perfect tool for TPTB !!!!!!

(read siggy)

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Are you denying the fact that the wealthy have not been pulling their fiscal weight and, furthermore, lobbying for special treatment on the backs of the middle and poor classes? Deregulation, tax cuts, bailouts free trade agreements. All these amounted to trillions in handouts for the "job creators", as conservative pundits like to call them. Where are the jobs? The largest recession since the great depression and the wealthy are wealthier than ever.

Both parties catered heavely towards the mega rich while feeding the middle and poor classes to the wolves. Dems and republicans. Both are scum in that aspect. Im talking about the reality of the situation here, not party politics. What needs to be done needs to be done, dont you agree?

edit on 5-12-2012 by Snoopy1978 because: Ipad

You are denying the fact that government spends too much, and any gain (if any) made from this tax will be squandered many times over.

Since it is Christmas, I'll just say Jesus Christ people.

I am not mad at rich people but I am not ignorant to their ways either.

1) The rich pay less tax today. Write-offs, accountants that leverage loop holes on their behalf, fake charities, etc;
2) They expense a great portion of money spent as "business travel", meals, etc; This is no different that a waiter lying about the tips they made.
3) etc, ad nauseum

The only to way to make everyone pay the same tax is to have a flat tax, no exceptions.

why is everyone always defending the caste that can afford to defend themselves?

The divided poor and middle class bicker while these people continue to steal the "civilized world".

reply to post by Snoopy1978

As always, I'm confused, but Snoopy1978, this is more than usually confusing.

There you have it, folks. Against his corporate handlers' wishes, Boehner inches closer to reality. Taxes MUST go up for the top 2%ers. Let the robe-tearing and gnashing of teeth begin, conservative ats'ers!

So Boehner is NOT controlled by corporations and the "mega-rich?" Doesn't that attack the position of a very loud segment of ATSers that claim that control exists, at least over the Republicans, if not everybody? "Inches closer?" What? This is what he's been saying from the beginning, he's not "inching" anywhere. From your source:

"We have got to cut spending and I believe it is appropriate to put revenues on the table," Boehner told reporters on Wednesday. "Now, the revenues that we are putting on the table are going to come from guess who? The rich."

He continued, "There are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy."

He says it could be done without raising tax rates. Why should conservatives be upset that his position hasn't changed?

Are you denying the fact that the wealthy have not been pulling their fiscal weight

Is this the "fair share" argument again? The question is, what is their fiscal weight? Until there's a reasonable answer, I can only see that as an opinion, so, yes, I am denying the "fact."

An open question.

What's going to happen after taxes are raised, the debt ceiling is raised?

If our debt continues to increase, will Obama target the top 5%? The top 10%? The top 50%?

What comes after all this?

I foresee the "poor" calling for Obama's head.

This article is from 2010, but applies today. People have NO clue whats going to happen.

Low-income workers stand to lose the most if lawmakers fail to reach a consensus on the Bush-era tax cuts, according to a new report from the Tax Foundation. The report states that on Jan. 1 the doubling of the child tax credit, increased standard deductions and income credits and the creation of the 10 percent tax bracket — all of which primarily aimed at non-wealthy taxpayers — will vanish if gridlock persists in Washington.

While wealthier taxpayers pay more in taxes and stand to lose more money if the tax cuts expire, the impact on low-income taxpayers will be far greater because they live on slimmer margins.

Democratic leaders have repeatedly vowed that tax cuts benefiting these taxpayers will be extended beyond their Dec. 31 expiration date. But a similar promise was made last year on the estate tax, and ten months have passed without Democratic leaders following through on that promise.

Study: Expiration of Bush tax cuts will hit poorest hardest

reply to post by sonnny1

Thanks, Sonny. What I also see is this;

The business owners will defray the costs of the tax increases towards their product. The middle class and the poorer amongst us will pay more.

Thus increasing the burden on the entitlement system (Cloward-Piven) and continue this spiral downward.