Religious always challenge: Prove there's no god.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jiggerj

 

If you believe that Adam and Eve were real, and that god created them, why would Adam (or any man today) have nipples?

I would say a belly button would be more of a mystery... considering that would mean something had to have been attached to said place on the body at some point...

Then again, your question is based on artwork of mythical people that likely didn't ever exist in the first place...

Hi AK, It's hard to keep track of all the replies in all the religious threads, but I could have sworn you believed that Adam and Eve were real. Guess I was wrong.

reply to post by jiggerj


haha... nope

I consider the OT to be nothing more then a damn good story of a false God posing as the real God to people that didn't know any better...

Its a story... nothing more

Originally posted by jiggerj
1. Wisdom teeth. Why would a god create wisdom teeth when there's usually no room in the mouth for them? Most people have to have them removed. Mine were excruciating!

2. If you believe that Adam and Eve were real, and that god created them, why would Adam (or any man today) have nipples?

These two conditions prove that our human design is far from being created by some perfect god.

1. We have wisdom teeth because, at one time, we desperately needed three sets of molars. Back then, we had larger jaws to accommodate all of those teeth comfortably. Our methods of eating and preparing food over the last few thousand years have made our jaws smaller but we are still coded to have those teeth. I don't see why a Christian can't claim that we have evolved since our creation.

2. Genesis never claims that Adam had nipples. The nipples are formed before we are assigned a gender in the womb. Nipples aren't gender-dependent and would exist even if we were all androgynous. It's like wondering if they had navels.

To me, pointing out flaws in either evolution or creationism does not prove or disprove either one. The wisdom teeth question, for example, makes you scratch your head at both theories.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by jiggerj
1. Wisdom teeth. Why would a god create wisdom teeth when there's usually no room in the mouth for them? Most people have to have them removed. Mine were excruciating!

2. If you believe that Adam and Eve were real, and that god created them, why would Adam (or any man today) have nipples?

These two conditions prove that our human design is far from being created by some perfect god.

1. We have wisdom teeth because, at one time, we desperately needed three sets of molars. Back then, we had larger jaws to accommodate all of those teeth comfortably. Our methods of eating and preparing food over the last few thousand years have made our jaws smaller but we are still coded to have those teeth. I don't see why a Christian can't claim that we have evolved since our creation.

2. Genesis never claims that Adam had nipples. The nipples are formed before we are assigned a gender in the womb. Nipples aren't gender-dependent and would exist even if we were all androgynous. It's like wondering if they had navels.

To me, pointing out flaws in either evolution or creationism does not prove or disprove either one. The wisdom teeth question, for example, makes you scratch your head at both theories.

Didn't even think I did a good job with my post but, very well done

I can see from the responses here that there are 2 types of people on ATS.

The first type believe in God and ignore anything that threatens their "Theory".

The second type are analytical thinkers who require "Evidence" to form a theory.

Those who believe cannot provide anything to support their ideology so they rely on "Faith". They will always deny anything that challenges their faith because it is too hard for them to imagine that there is no God and they have been misled by sly bureaucrats from long ago who saw the need for a social stability through standard codes of conduct (The Bible). You need only read the commandments. It is a great book and children should hear the stories (not all of them) to remind them of what eons of life has taught us as a species.

As far as actually being a God there is no such thing. It is purely used as a way of explaining things we could never explain. It is also a way of keeping people from acting however they like without remorse. This happens with psychopaths because they are missing the social part of their brain. We are animals after all and when our animal instinct kicks in there is no doubt what we are.

There are lots of things you could call evidence of evolution. There is NO EVIDENCE for God.

reply to post by onecraftydude


There is evidence of God my friend... Unfortunatly God can not be proven to another person...

You have to prove it to yourself... IF you choose to do so

IF you seek him with all your heart, mind, and soul... he will show you all the proof you need...

reply to post by jiggerj

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

There is evidence of God my friend... Unfortunatly God can not be proven to another person...

You have to prove it to yourself... IF you choose to do so

IF you seek him with all your heart, mind, and soul... he will show you all the proof you need...

But that is the same with everything. If you go looking for something, you'll probable find it. Look for the good in people, then look for the bad in people.

What, the monarchical Abrahamic God that was based off older religions? And really, just consider the Abrahamic vision of heaven/perfection. It's like church 24/7. Honestly, who wants that. At least Muslims get virgins, eh? Well, these religions may be facing extinction soon because their relevancy is beginning to wane. That is, until they finally embrace mysticism (direct experience and understanding, not hearsay and wishful thinking).

The only way religion can survive is if it's mystical, so here are two of the biggest ones that we already have on this Earth and their concepts of God; alternatives to the above religions:


The Hindu idea of God is the self: the collective consciousness of each and every one of us and the whole universe. It's perfect in it's imperfections, because a "perfect" and flawless world would be utterly boring to experience -- just imagine a movie with no plot... In Hinduism, you come into this illusion to forget who you are, to play out a mortal life full of danger, excitement, and so on. You can, of course, be liberated from the illusion of life, and that's basically what Buddhism is about.

Buddhism doesn't tell you who you are, and has no idea or concept of God: Buddhism is about you finding that information out yourself, directly. It doesn't care about concepts and beliefs, it only cares about you waking up, being wise, and achieving happiness by ending suffering. You do this typically by meditation and insight while being naturally compassionate and selfless. It takes integrity and will (ie. true faith in yourself) though. Buddhism is like the science of religion and metaphysics, which is why many don't even consider it a religion. I liken it to "the religion of no-religion", especially in the Zen variety.

All of this touches on what Sagan said: "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." The only reason I posted all the above is because we have more choices in life to guide/introduce us to the path of self-discovery, and with no strings attached. Even Jesus taught that we are more than the sum of our parts, that was his main message even, but, you know... they didn't want this popular guy telling people, especially the "scum of the earth," that they are actually of "divine" nature.


Face it, we like variety and mystery in life, and the thrill of experience and adventure. Good, bad, atheist, theist -- whatever -- those differences, that variance, the contrast of it all, pulling unity apart and examining it as duality and then reuniting it into Oneness again: all of this and whatever else you can think of is what makes life wonderful. The fact that we can do any of that is what makes life worthwhile. The dance and drama of life is far better than staring at a wall that's painted in a single colour.

There's no reason to prove or disprove it but by all means, keep trying. You have every right to do so.

reply to post by jiggerj


Exactly!

reply to post by jiggerj


for aesthetics i would imagine.

if men went around without nipples, you'd be complaining that it's imperfect because it'll look retarded and man was incomplete.

and the wisdom tooth, exactly, it makes you scratch your head and start thinking, hence the word "wisdom".

a little inside joke between God and Jesus, probably.

something that has no biological advantage, where as if you believed in evolution, it shouldn't exist, but it does.

reply to post by jiggerj


DId you happen to notice that I clearly stated "Get over yourselves!" Was that not enough for ya. Maybe some advice you should take.

reply to post by yourmaker


It doesn't matter, as you'll never know either way. I don't bother myself with "what-ifs." If it improves someone's state of mind, and hence, quality of life than what's it to you what someone else believes. If it makes them happy that's all that matters. If you truly do believe in nothing, than I feel sorry for you, but don't expect anyone to respect that position if you try to ram into peoples' faces.

i'll end this debate right now

do you honestly think this:



came from that:



and that a million years of this:



mating with that:



would produce this:



what are you literally smoking. if you can honestly believe that with a straight face, there is zero hope for you.

Maybe god just likes nipples. Maybe god likes novacane.

This doesn't prove anything

reply to post by randomname


As sexy as those girls are, you can't be sure that the apes don't think we're the ugly ones and baboon booty is beauty. We all see things in subjective terms.

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by boncho

 

exactly, it doesn't take millions of years to create life like evolutionists say.

maybe you should go to africa and waste your life looking for the missing link.

not even a human missing link, a missing link for any of the 8 million species on earth. surely there's got to be one.

just one. but there isn't.

Well by the term 'missing link' I assume you mean a transient fossil showing species changing through time......Of which there are countless examples. en.wikipedia.org...
Including many examples showing human evolution from other primates en.wikipedia.org...

Your challenge of finding just one, seems to suggest you have a serious lack of education about the subject.

If you dont believe you get punished for eternity. If you dont follow the rules you get punished for eternity. The boss is constantly trying to get you to break the rules, if you do, you get punished for eternity.

The boss could make your life easier, but he wont. The boss could prevent bad things from happening but he wont.

The system is flawed, but the boss wont fix it.

This leads to two possible conclusions, either the system is a lie, or it is designed to cause failure.

Either way, im not playing and anyone who does is an idiot.

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by jiggerj

 

for aesthetics i would imagine.

if men went around without nipples, you'd be complaining that it's imperfect because it'll look retarded and man was incomplete.

and the wisdom tooth, exactly, it makes you scratch your head and start thinking, hence the word "wisdom".

a little inside joke between God and Jesus, probably.

something that has no biological advantage, where as if you believed in evolution, it shouldn't exist, but it does.

edit on 6-12-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Your last sentence proves you do not understand the process of evolution..Somrthing does not need to provide a biological advantage , somrtimes it is indeed the oppositer , hence the dying out and extinction of species.

i hate the way religious people continue to use use the ontological argument.
"It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
God exists as an idea in the mind.
A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
Therefore, God exists."

this might be the worst arguement for a god. I like Douglas Gaskings parody of it.

"1. The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable

2. The Merit of an acheivement is the product of (a) its instrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of the creator.

3. The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.

4. The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.

5. Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of a existent creator we can conceive a greater being - namely, one who created everything while not existing

6. An existing God therefore would not be a being greater than which a greater cannot be conceived because an even more formidable and incredible creator would be a God who did not exist

Ergo:

7. God does not exist"