Why did God do Satan’s bidding?

Why did God do Satan’s bidding?

Christians are too religious to follow their moral sense and spiritual natures. Religion is directing your morals instead of your God given intelligence, moral sense and spiritual nature. I urge you to follow the teachings of spiritual teachers like Bishop Spong. A moral man.

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Galileo -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

Job 2; 3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Fellow believers and Gnostic Christians like me; if you are a literalist or fundamental Christian or idol worship the God you have found in the Bible, I urge you to think of the story of Job and note from the wording that God is being manipulated by Satan. Satan bid God to move against Job without just cause and God did just that. God let Satan manipulate him.

I know that your mind set is to think that God is controlling Satan but as the wording and God’s actions clearly shows, this is not so. Satan ruled God that day.

Psa 5: 5 For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee. 6 The boasters shall not stand in Thy sight; Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 4 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you.

As Job 2;3 shows, evil definitely dwells in God and definitely sojourn.

Some of you will say that regardless of the immorality of God’s actions, you can ignore them as you have a new covenant with Jesus. I see this as a cop out on your part. Jesus was not born divine. He had to become divine as we all must according to scriptures. These say he was a Rabbi only and had to force his apotheosis the way we all must through seeking God.

Job 25; 4 How then can man be just with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Hebrew 5; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

If a man did what God did to Job, Christians would soundly condemn that man yet you elevate God for doing the same immoral actions. You do so because your fear death and crave heaven but your poor moral position insures that hell will be your end result as immoral souls do not earn heaven. Let evil be in your heart as God does but remember that recognizing it is what is important. Not the fact that it is there.

Do you realize that your morality has been compromised by religion and that you are not following the law of God that is written on your heart?
You are giving God a pass when you should be giving him a fail, ---- just as you would give an evil man?

Let your spiritual nature guide you. Not a corrupted religion.

Regards
DL

Someone once said the Devils greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe he didn't exist......

I say his greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe that God does exist.........

If you consider that there is a supreme being but he is inherently evil and good only occurs when he is not paying attention then the world starts to make a lot more sense.

People always look for the balancing or the triumph of good versus evil. That is precisely the accomplishment of the supreme being - in giving us the vice of "Hope" even when presneted with the utter reality that the entire world is enherently corrupt.

In the words of Captain Jack Sparrow "Take everything you can carry,,,give nothing back"

Get yours brother....and shoot to kill or someone will take it.

God allows evil to do evil things, including satan, but only for a limited time.

Or god is just a mean drunk

reply to post by Greatest I am


Religion and the stories associated with them were the Neolithic equivalent of Hollywood blockbusters.
Everyone had their favorites and these stories with interesting characters evolved into rules and regulations people should obey or spooky Hollywood blockbuster invisible people in the sky will punish you.
Wars were even fought over who's imaginary Brad Pitt was better.

You may as well ask similar questions about Odin the all father allowing Loki to do certain things, or questioning the motivations of Isis, or asking why Krishna has so many avatars, or why Zeus allows so much petty arguing and backstabbing on Olympus.

All these other gods mentioned were just as real, genuine, relevant and important as any other god or gods anywhere or any when else.

What makes them any different?

Originally posted by beanandginger

I say his greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe that God does exist.........

I was going to say something very similar.

I believe that Satan is God's greatest gift to us.
We are sent to this physical plane to experience the duality, to be appear 'separated' from God, and to learn from 'evil' just as much (if not more) than we do from 'good.'
Thus, without all of the evil in the world...what would motivate us to act on our belief in God? Why would we turn to God? That is why we have freewill. To learn, from trial and error, what does not feel Godly within ourselves, and then to consciously choose to reunite with God and to do God's work here on Earth.

Also, Satan cannot 'rule' God, for that would be to say there is a separation between God and Satan. God is the Sum. Satan is just a factor.
It all works together.

Cheers!

(I humbly admit that this is just my opinion/belief.)

If you read the whole Job story then you see that Satan had to stay within the boundaries God set out. Further, God allowed Satan to test Job because He knew Job would be found faithful and it would serve as a lesson on faith and the relationship between God and Satan.

God makes restitution at the end, and satan doesn't win.. so... I think you're way off base saying that satan bested God.

I'm sure you'd just love to think this contradiction is true and sooooo enlightening.
Brah! It's like a contradiction, brah, and it shows how with it I am. I can like point out that the bad guy actually beat the good guy and that goes against what my parents said, so I've got this religion trash figured out, brah.

reply to post by Greatest I am


What difference does it make what God did or didn’t do to Job? As a Gnostic you already believe that the flesh is wicked so what difference does it make what God done to Job on the physical realm?

God allows evil because people on Earth deserve it. We are all here for one reason only, and that's to earn our place where we belong in the heavens. A lot of people have mentioned that Earth, is literally 'hell' metaphorically and that's what I believe and it doesn't surprise me that others believe this as well because all it takes is intuition to understand it.

God doesn't 'allow' it, he just lets it be so whatever must take place, takes place here on Earth for us to learn from our mistakes. Bad things happen, it's called being at the wrong place at the wrong time even if they happen to good people.

Bible states that people go to 'hell' for a Second Death? So what really is a Second Death? Consciousness/Energy cannot be created or destroyed but can it be purified? That is what I believe.

Now the Elites can easily control this through religion and what do you know? The psychopaths have control of our World because they don't care about the afterlife thus why they are determine to get as rich as possible and enjoy all that 'this' life has to offer.

reply to post by Greatest I am


The problem that most religious types suffer from (possibly even including you, judging from your post), is that they take the bible literally, which it was never intended for. It is a merely a collection of historical stories that are intended to be taken symbolically, not word for word. To anyone who thinks the bible is the literal word of god, I implore you to read what it says on the front: "King James' Version." How about King Bob's version? Maybe that's something I'd like to read.

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

The problem that most religious types suffer from (possibly even including you, judging from your post), is that they take the bible literally, which it was never intended for. It is a merely a collection of historical stories that are intended to be taken symbolically, not word for word. To anyone who thinks the bible is the literal word of god, I implore you to read what it says on the front: "King James' Version." How about King Bob's version? Maybe that's something I'd like to read.

Maybe you should read how the king james came about
www.av1611.org...

reply to post by guitarplayer


Maybe you should go bark up a tree that isn't covered in thorns. Do you mean to tell me that it is the literal word of God in your eyes?

reply to post by Greatest I am

If a man did what God did to Job, Christians would soundly condemn that man yet you elevate God for doing the same immoral actions.

In Job, there are three levels of "god" in the story, something you don't get if you are only reading the English translation.
Satan is also a god in the story but is the enemy of the prominent god in the pantheon of gods of the world. So, including Satan, there are four "gods" in the story.
One is at the most basic level, who provides normal things necessary for a human population to exist on the earth.
The second is a god who oversees the people specifically.
The third is a god not playing a role in the play, but is referred to as the final arbiter between man and the lesser gods.
The final God is unquestionably good and fair, the others, not so much, especially Satan.

Originally posted by beanandginger
Someone once said the Devils greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe he didn't exist......

I say his greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe that God does exist.........

If you consider that there is a supreme being but he is inherently evil and good only occurs when he is not paying attention then the world starts to make a lot more sense.

People always look for the balancing or the triumph of good versus evil. That is precisely the accomplishment of the supreme being - in giving us the vice of "Hope" even when presneted with the utter reality that the entire world is enherently corrupt.

In the words of Captain Jack Sparrow "Take everything you can carry,,,give nothing back"

Get yours brother....and shoot to kill or someone will take it.

We have no religious argument but I do not see the world as that bad.

We are doing a good job in spite of religions and the evil they cause.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL.

Originally posted by iamdavid
God allows evil to do evil things, including satan, but only for a limited time.

Or god is just a mean drunk

Limited time.

Would you agree that justice delayed is justice denied?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Religion and the stories associated with them were the Neolithic equivalent of Hollywood blockbusters.
Everyone had their favorites and these stories with interesting characters evolved into rules and regulations people should obey or spooky Hollywood blockbuster invisible people in the sky will punish you.
Wars were even fought over who's imaginary Brad Pitt was better.

You may as well ask similar questions about Odin the all father allowing Loki to do certain things, or questioning the motivations of Isis, or asking why Krishna has so many avatars, or why Zeus allows so much petty arguing and backstabbing on Olympus.

All these other gods mentioned were just as real, genuine, relevant and important as any other god or gods anywhere or any when else.

What makes them any different?

edit on 5-12-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Belief in them has not created most of the wars we have fought in the last 3,000 years.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by beanandginger

I say his greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe that God does exist.........

I was going to say something very similar.

I believe that Satan is God's greatest gift to us.
We are sent to this physical plane to experience the duality, to be appear 'separated' from God, and to learn from 'evil' just as much (if not more) than we do from 'good.'
Thus, without all of the evil in the world...what would motivate us to act on our belief in God? Why would we turn to God? That is why we have freewill. To learn, from trial and error, what does not feel Godly within ourselves, and then to consciously choose to reunite with God and to do God's work here on Earth.

Also, Satan cannot 'rule' God, for that would be to say there is a separation between God and Satan. God is the Sum. Satan is just a factor.
It all works together.

Cheers!

(I humbly admit that this is just my opinion/belief.)

edit on 5-12-2012 by eleven44 because: (no reason given)

Do God's work!
Heaven forbid.

Are you that blood thirsty?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by MeesterB
If you read the whole Job story then you see that Satan had to stay within the boundaries God set out. Further, God allowed Satan to test Job because He knew Job would be found faithful and it would serve as a lesson on faith and the relationship between God and Satan.

God makes restitution at the end, and satan doesn't win.. so... I think you're way off base saying that satan bested God.

I'm sure you'd just love to think this contradiction is true and sooooo enlightening.
Brah! It's like a contradiction, brah, and it shows how with it I am. I can like point out that the bad guy actually beat the good guy and that goes against what my parents said, so I've got this religion trash figured out, brah.

You speak of God or Satan winning but forget all the others that were murdered for God to win his bet with Satan.

Your morals have been compromised and corrupted and you don't even see it or blink an eye as you justify anything immoral that God does be it genocide or having his own son needlessly murdered. Good for you.

Can you admit that you did not even think of the innocent victims?
No you cannot from your immoral bubble.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by beanandginger

I say his greatest accomplishment was getting us to believe that God does exist.........

I was going to say something very similar.

I believe that Satan is God's greatest gift to us.
We are sent to this physical plane to experience the duality, to be appear 'separated' from God, and to learn from 'evil' just as much (if not more) than we do from 'good.'
Thus, without all of the evil in the world...what would motivate us to act on our belief in God? Why would we turn to God? That is why we have freewill. To learn, from trial and error, what does not feel Godly within ourselves, and then to consciously choose to reunite with God and to do God's work here on Earth.

Also, Satan cannot 'rule' God, for that would be to say there is a separation between God and Satan. God is the Sum. Satan is just a factor.
It all works together.

Cheers!

(I humbly admit that this is just my opinion/belief.)

edit on 5-12-2012 by eleven44 because: (no reason given)

Do God's work!
Heaven forbid.

Are you that blood thirsty?

Regards
DL

Um...not sure I understand your comment...unless it was complete sarcasm?

Blood thirsty?



::::EDIT:::::

Okay, so after going back and reading some of your other responses…I see that you are not being sarcastic, and in fact, you are quite angry at people who believe in God.
Well, for starters, I am not ‘Christian.’ I am not any religion. I do not adhere to texts or scriptures or dogmas or traditions. I do, however, draw from all sources of wisdom and information, from all cultures of the world, and then draw my own conclusions depending on what resonates best within myself as ‘truth.’
You seem to believe that everyone who believes in God is ‘blood thirsty.’ Why?
“Gods work” does not mean eliminating ‘non-believers’ or believers of other faiths from the face of the Earth. It does not mean spreading hate and fear and judgment. In fact, quite the opposite, if you are truly doing Gods work then you are spreading light, love and compassion.
Example: Yesterday I spent $50 (which is a lot of money in my world) on a 12 year old girl whom I have never met. I signed up for a Secret Santa program through a local charity. I have also had a ‘Traveler’ I met ‘randomly’ on the streets sleep in my house for the last week because he’s a nice guy and I don’t think the city I live in is safe to sleep outside. My wife and I have had probably close to 2 dozen people stay in our house over the last 3 or 4 years. Most of them are ‘strangers.’ Some have stayed with us upwards of 3 months while we helped them get a job and an apartment and just get settled overall. I also am a musician, poet and artist. All my work is designed specifically to give either hope, inspiration, a smile, laughter, or at least knowledge. My wife and I make pieces of art that we leave in different locations around town for people to find.
I smile at people. I make eye contact. I listen. I compliment people on the small things that I know mean a lot to them.
I do not believe in war or violence, unless it is direct self defense. And even in the case of self defense, I believe it should be ‘reasonable force,’ and not unnecessarily violent or destructive.
Yes, it is sad and true that many people who claim to believe in God do so in order to promote other agendas. Yes, some who believe in God do so in order to feel superior. Some do so in order to judge or condemn others. Some do so simply because they are to scared not to. But I tell you, Brother, those do not use the force of God to spread Love, Light and compassion, do NOT know who God is anymore than you do.
However, take a step back and look at what you’re doing: You’re judging, condemning and accusing people that you don’t know simply because of their beliefs….hm…Sounds like you’re doing the exact same thing as those you are mad at.
I do not say this to attack you. I say this to raise your awareness as to what you are actually doing with your energy.

ALSO:
Who are we to say what is ‘good’ and what is truly ‘evil.’
Yes, it is noble and just to stand for Peace, Love, Justice, Truth, etc, etc. And yes, it is my wish and prayer for the human population to better ourselves and to end suffering as much as we can…

But how do we know what someone else’s soul needs to learn? I know from my personal experience that some of the most painful experiences I have had to go through (the ones that make me ask, “Why God, why?”) are also the experiences that I learn the most from. And, I don’t know about you, but even if I could, there is no way I would go erase all of the pain and suffering that I have gone through in my past. Those experiences are of utmost importance.

Our souls sign up for these lessons. We need them. It is impossible to experience such lessons on any other dimension other than this physical world we call Earth. We come here with purpose: to learn. It is my belief that we even get to choose who our parents will be, when we will meet our ‘soul mates’ and other soul partners, and even what major lessons we will have to experience (yes, even the painful ones.) Our Higher Self knows what we need.

Think about it this way: Life is like a movie. Why do some people go to horror movies? Why do some go to sappy love films? And, still, why do some go to dramas and soap operas? Well…we go for a number of reasons: To learn, to have fun, to spend time with loved ones, and to immerse ourselves in another world, even if it’s only temporary. Movies are illusions. Movies are the illusion of space and time projected onto a 2 dimensional surface. We know this before we enter the theatre…and yet we find ourselves connected to the characters. We find ourselves scared, laughing, crying, yelling at the screen (even though they can’t hear us.) We suspend our disbelief that this movie is just a movie…even though we know it will end and we will return to that which we came from. Life is the same. We watch as the movie unfolds before us…we believe in space and time, we believe the illusion, and we temporarily choose to forget about the ‘real world’ from whence we came.

This doesn’t mean, of course, that we shouldn’t try to help others. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t feed the hungry, clothe the needy, and give a shoulder to the tired. But it does mean we should try to not judge ‘God’ for ‘doing’ ‘bad things’ to other people. God does not kill people. God does not let others be killed. God gave us freewill. Thus, it is we, HUMANS, who kill others. And, yes, it is we, HUMANS, who let others kill and be killed. Not God. But remember, the soul does not (and cannot) die anymore than a character in a movie. We are eternal.

So please, before you go around accusing others of hatred and a thirst for blood….stop. Breathe. Think about what energy you are putting out. Instead of reacting…evolve.

Again, Gods Work means spreading love. It means helping one another. It means loving yourself FIRST, so that the love you have for yourself can’t help but spread to others.

I apologize for all people of all religions who have spoiled the name of God. But let’s do our best to change that starting…..NOW.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by MeesterB
If you read the whole Job story then you see that Satan had to stay within the boundaries God set out. Further, God allowed Satan to test Job because He knew Job would be found faithful and it would serve as a lesson on faith and the relationship between God and Satan.

God makes restitution at the end, and satan doesn't win.. so... I think you're way off base saying that satan bested God.

I'm sure you'd just love to think this contradiction is true and sooooo enlightening.
Brah! It's like a contradiction, brah, and it shows how with it I am. I can like point out that the bad guy actually beat the good guy and that goes against what my parents said, so I've got this religion trash figured out, brah.

You speak of God or Satan winning but forget all the others that were murdered for God to win his bet with Satan.

Your morals have been compromised and corrupted and you don't even see it or blink an eye as you justify anything immoral that God does be it genocide or having his own son needlessly murdered. Good for you.

Can you admit that you did not even think of the innocent victims?
No you cannot from your immoral bubble.

Regards
DL

I see these arguments all the time and they fail miserably (at least in the context of the bible)

God knows the end before the beginning. Satan does not.

Satan only knows a future that has been fortold by the prophets of God, in a futile effort he is trying his best to avoid it but deep down he knows that his days are numbered.

Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." (Revelation 12:12)


The carnage caused by Satan on the earth is only temporary (God permits Satan a period of time to cause mayhem, this allows God to determine who his true children are). The death of Job's family is heartbreaking and Job feels a great deal of sorrow but in the grand scheme of eternity it will become long forgotten. I refer you to the following passage:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

Originally posted by eleven44

Originally posted by Greatest I am
]

I snipped for brevity and have no argument against much of what you say to benevolence.

I am not so much angry with believers. I am angry for the way they create a double standard for God and give him a pass for doing what they give man a fail for. They are not being honest or true to good moral thinking and let their religion compromise their morals.

Not all believers as stated in the O P but even today if you look at literal and fundamental believers, they are sitting there impatiently waiting for God to return and genocide us in the rapture once more for not believing in his absentee self. Good morals that. Not.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL