Went to Social Security office in Texas and didn't hear English spoken for 30 minutes

Originally posted by Indigo5
BTW - El Paso?...Spanish for the Gateway...used to be El Paso Del Norte...

I'm writing this as an immigrant.

"Used to be" is the keyword. It the US now. The city of Nice used to be in Italy. Now it's French. People speak French and a little Occitane, which is the local dialect. No Italian, and don't get me started on any French office. The Ukrainian city of Lviv is still listed as "Lemberg" in most European airports. It used to be within Austria, and Mozart's son lived there for most of his life. Now you won't hear German spoken in the streets. I just recently checked. A nice city, by the way.

As far as "the destruction of our culture"....we are a "melting pot"...and every immigrant wave...Irish, Italian, German, and yes even Hispanics and Middle Eastern...

I swear if I hear "melting pot" once again, I'm going to puke - not because I oppose the idea, but because I believe some people refuse to think when applying this convenient cliche which has been used and abused to death. The melting pot only works if people realize we all need to melt a little. We have whole enclaves of Hispanics in this country who can't be bothered to learn the language of the land, and have ZERO interest in "melting". Remember the rallies staged by the illegal immigrants some time ago? These folks were proudly carrying MEXICAN FLAGS in the US street. In face of that, repetitious use of "melting pot" becomes openly stupid.

When your g-grand dad was alive, El Paso was Mexican Territory.

And Lviv was Lemberg in Austria. It's not anymore. And oh yeah, newsbreak -- dinosaurs are exctinct.

a melting pot

Wait, this is the third time you use it in your single post. I guess rubber stamps and cliche replaced critical thinking in some. Like robots: "behold the melting pot".

Just cuz we wear green and celebrate St. Patrick's day...doesn't mean the Irish destroyed America.

By contrast, people who come here and insist on remaining Mexicans and Salvadorans, complete with Barrio Azteca and MS-13, have that potential. They really don't give a flying toss for your "melting pot" thing. Duh.

Originally posted by buddhasystem


I'm writing this as an immigrant.

You mean American?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
People speak French and a little Occitane, which is the local dialect. No Italian, and don't get me started on any French office. The Ukrainian city of Lviv is still listed as "Lemberg" in most European airports. It used to be within Austria, and Mozart's son lived there for most of his life. Now you won't hear German spoken in the streets. I just recently checked. A nice city, by the way.

You can't be this ignorant? You are aware that HUGE enclaves in the US throughout history...spoke German, Swede, French, Italian etc. etc....they still assimilated. When you here "Hey der" in Wisconsin and the UP...you are hearing the remnants of a Swedish Accent...When you hear a New Orleans accent, you are hearing the remnats of French...Apalachia...Scotch-Anglo immigrants.

This idea that since Spanish is spoken in pockets now that assimilation doesn't occur is disproven by logic and well...the entire effen history of the US, if not the world.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
We have whole enclaves of Hispanics in this country who can't be bothered to learn the language of the land, and have ZERO interest in "melting". Remember the rallies staged by the illegal immigrants some time ago? These folks were proudly carrying MEXICAN FLAGS in the US street.

For the love of God...read some history...there have been riots, murders, brawls...Irish, Italinans et al. Don't think that the Italians fly the Italian flag in little italy? The Polish fly Polands flag at festivals etc. Don't think that Mandarin is the dominate language in Chinatown? Just wild how you seem to think that the Mexicans specifically are not assimilating...what does that remind of ??? Oh yah....every single effen group that has ever immigrated here...and the Xenophobes that screamed the same things...you are an immigrant? WHERE FROM, I likely have some history to share with you....but I doubt you'd be interested! Ignorance is fun...right? It let's you get your hate on.

THE IRISH....


THE ITALIANS...


THE CHINESE

Originally posted by Indigo5
You can't be this ignorant?

I can't and I'm not.

You are aware that HUGE enclaves in the US throughout history...spoke German, Swede, French, Italian etc. etc....they still assimilated.

Certainly. But times have changed. What used to be a reasonable assimilation process now came to a halt due to huge number of Mexicans coming to inner cities. I'm not making this up, this was in the analysis on socioeconomic mobility of Hispanics I read in NYT a while ago. They form a neighborhood and remain locked in it. No desire to "melt" or "assimilate". Sheesh, they'll wave a Mexican flag at you. That's a pinnacle of assimilation in your eyes, I assume.

ALL of Switzerland is a bunch of "enclaves", who really speak some weird dialects at times. There are four official languages. But there is one language that pretty much everyone knows and which is used most often in offices etc. And that's how it should be.

When you here "Hey der" in Wisconsin and the UP...you are hearing the remnants of a Swedish Accent...

That's quaint and all. I'm so goddamn impressed. Not.

I have an accent myself, and I'm at loss as to what you are trying to say here. It's not about accent, it's about whole layers of population forming a bubble all onto themselves.

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
"Believed". By whom, exactly, and based on what evidence? Kennewick Man is about the oldest remains they have for this continent. So, I guess I am "conveniently ignoring" evidence that doesn't exist? How dare I?

New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago.

Not a single thing in that link states that the Mongolian stock Amerinds were here at that time. They have some plant dates, and some artifacts, but no remains. You could just as easily assume that Kennewick man and his contemporaries (and there are quite a few of those found...) were the ones who left those artifacts. You stated:

Originally posted by XaphanIt is now believed that Native Americans have inhabited this continent for 30,000 to 50,000 years, which is longer than white people have even existed.

That article doesn't say "Native American artifacts", it says HUMANS. I stated, accurately, that the remains that are older are Caucasoid. The skull shapes aren't hard to tell apart. IF that fellow's figures are correct (and carbon dating has been known to be off quite a bit), then the fact remains that we do not know WHO left those artifacts. Assuming it was the people found here when the Europeans arrived, when we have older remains, isn't logical.

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
They can't? Hmmm..... There was no mass takeover of the continent. Parts were settled peacefully, parts were purchased, and some parts were conquered. SO WHAT? By your standards, I could fly to Scotland, confront people that took land from my ancestors centuries ago, and demand it back, because my people were there first. That's simply ridiculous.

Except that wasn't even my argument at all. I never once said that anybody has the right to demand anything back, as it's a little too late for that. The point I originally tried to make before you dropped that straw man fallacy was that European legalities shouldn't have applied to people that had never even encountered them before. I'm just sick of people making excuses for these original European settlers, making them out to be glorified patriots and heroes, when many of them were in fact devious underhanded thieves. I'm not saying anybody should leave, I'm not saying white people should feel guilty, I'm not saying everything should be given back. I'm just saying that people should acknowledge the truth. It wasn't fair, they were invaded and treated like sh*t, and that's what happened. That was my argument all along. There are still so many people who just don't want to accept the cold hard truth. I don't know why exactly, but I imagine most of these people are clouded by a patriotic bias. I pretty much summarized all this in a previous post anyways:

Originally posted by Xaphan
My post wasn't meant to be a personal attack to anybody or any country. I just wish people would stop acting like their ancestors were right. Our ancestors did some terrible things, and no, it isn't our fault, but the very least we can do is admit that they aren't the heroes that they were originally thought to be. We should just acknowledge the truth of what really happened and try to move forward. My main concern isn't who did the most or least amount of damage, it's making sure things like this don't happen again. If we don't acknowledge historical truths, history is bound to repeat itself.

I have never stated that some bad things didn't happen to the Indians/Amerinds/Native Americans here. I have stated that they ALSO did things that were not friendly. I have at least one ancestor from the Creeks, as far as we can tell, and believe me, they did their share of attacking.

This thread isn't about that, though. This thread is about people coming to this country, and refusing to learn the predominant language, and expecting the nation they CHOSE to live in to cater to them, instead of adapting, like virtually every other group of people do that come here. We can either have a national language (English), or we can cater to ALL of them, and have everything in English, Spanish, French, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Dutch, Swahili, Farsi, Portugese, Norwegian, German, Danish, Croatian, Hungarian, Italian, etc, etc, etc. Otherwise, you have to admit that ONE group is being favored.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Exactly! Why can't more people understand that all of this "diversity" crap divides us as a nation?? United we stand, divided we fall, as the saying goes! And, yes, it is catering to ONE group. I am so annoyed by this, that when I have a choice of buying a product with an all-English label, or one with English and Spanish, I choose the all-English one. Nigher price? Don't care. Sick to death of reading labels in another language, and getting maybe half the product details we used to get!

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
Why should they have to change because some immigrants came and decided to speak English?

They can speak Mandarin for all I care, but there must be a language spoken by everybody. Since English is the language of industry, science and a large part of culture in the United States of America, not learning that language is an affront to our country.

Oh, you want genocide.

Gotcha.

What does genocide have to do with wanting our common language?

Genocide does not merely mean the death of a people, but also the death of culture. The people of Texas have spoken Spanish as their language of choice for a long time before English speaking settlers came. By demanding your culture to be superior to the indigenous culture, you are advocating genocidal practices.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Exactly! Why can't more people understand that all of this "diversity" crap divides us as a nation?? United we stand, divided we fall, as the saying goes! And, yes, it is catering to ONE group. I am so annoyed by this, that when I have a choice of buying a product with an all-English label, or one with English and Spanish, I choose the all-English one. Nigher price? Don't care. Sick to death of reading labels in another language, and getting maybe half the product details we used to get!

Some people will never understand no matter what you say or how you say it. At least you have the common sense to see what is important.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Exactly! Why can't more people understand that all of this "diversity" crap divides us as a nation?? United we stand, divided we fall, as the saying goes! And, yes, it is catering to ONE group. I am so annoyed by this, that when I have a choice of buying a product with an all-English label, or one with English and Spanish, I choose the all-English one. Nigher price? Don't care. Sick to death of reading labels in another language, and getting maybe half the product details we used to get!

Ha ha, I love the part where you say "diversity" is catering to ONE group. Which group would that be?

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Exactly! Why can't more people understand that all of this "diversity" crap divides us as a nation?? United we stand, divided we fall, as the saying goes! And, yes, it is catering to ONE group. I am so annoyed by this, that when I have a choice of buying a product with an all-English label, or one with English and Spanish, I choose the all-English one. Nigher price? Don't care. Sick to death of reading labels in another language, and getting maybe half the product details we used to get!

Some people will never understand no matter what you say or how you say it. At least you have the common sense to see what is important.

Case in point just below your comment?

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's been my point as well. To cater to one group is ridiculous. Since everyone who comes here to live is required to speak english, has learned, understood and speak english, there should be no exceptions. English unites all people.

Exactly! Why can't more people understand that all of this "diversity" crap divides us as a nation?? United we stand, divided we fall, as the saying goes! And, yes, it is catering to ONE group. I am so annoyed by this, that when I have a choice of buying a product with an all-English label, or one with English and Spanish, I choose the all-English one. Nigher price? Don't care. Sick to death of reading labels in another language, and getting maybe half the product details we used to get!

Ha ha, I love the part where you say "diversity" is catering to ONE group. Which group would that be?

If you have read all of this, and can't figure that one out, I can't help you. I will try, though. Think carefully; what language is being spoken in those offices? What language do you have to press a button for, or press a button for English instead of that one? What language is printed over half the packages we buy, alongside English?

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
Genocide does not merely mean the death of a people, but also the death of culture.

Speak of a bias! A Texan comes to a government office and feels she's cut off, because she doesn't understand the language anymore. Somehow it's cool and dandy by you, but God forbid a Hispanic person gets inconvenienced.

The people of Texas have spoken Spanish as their language of choice for a long time before English speaking settlers came.

I've used the word "dinosaur" and maybe "fossil" a few times in this thread. The French used to rule Britain, and Rome used to rule it before that. Then there were the Celts. Would it be right to adopt Gaelic as the language of the land in the UK? Come on now, that's how it gets incredibly stupid.

By demanding your culture to be superior to the indigenous culture, you are advocating genocidal practices.

I'm demanding my land to be my land, and not a part of Mexico. I would think that any American who's not a freaking imbecile would feel the same way. Posting anything that contradicts that simple notion is advocating moronic practices.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist and claim that they are offensive merely because they choose to exist and follow their culture.. which predated yours. Their families lived there when it WAS still Mexico.

Your prejudice is showing.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
Genocide does not merely mean the death of a people, but also the death of culture.

Speak of a bias! A Texan comes to a government office and feels she's cut off, because she doesn't understand the language anymore. Somehow it's cool and dandy by you, but God forbid a Hispanic person gets inconvenienced.

The people of Texas have spoken Spanish as their language of choice for a long time before English speaking settlers came.

I've used the word "dinosaur" and maybe "fossil" a few times in this thread. The French used to rule Britain, and Rome used to rule it before that. Then there were the Celts. Would it be right to adopt Gaelic as the language of the land in the UK? Come on now, that's how it gets incredibly stupid.

By demanding your culture to be superior to the indigenous culture, you are advocating genocidal practices.

I'm demanding my land to be my land, and not a part of Mexico. I would think that any American who's not a freaking imbecile would feel the same way. Posting anything that contradicts that simple notion is advocating moronic practices.

edit on 17-12-2012 by buddhasystem because: (no reason given)

Gaelic is a dead language because of Genocide.

Nice choice.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist and claim that they are offensive merely because they choose to exist and follow their culture.. which predated yours. Their families lived there when it WAS still Mexico.

Your prejudice is showing.

What a crock. You were already told, a post about yours, why you are mistaken, but you can't see the facts.

The fact is, this is The United States of America, not Mexico, and hispanics do not have any more right to alter the country than any other group. They came her, and they should adapt, or go back to where they came from. No, there families did not, either. Most down there are mixes of local Indian tribes and Spaniards.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist and claim that they are offensive merely because they choose to exist and follow their culture.. which predated yours. Their families lived there when it WAS still Mexico.

Your prejudice is showing.

What a crock. You were already told, a post about yours, why you are mistaken, but you can't see the facts.

The fact is, this is The United States of America, not Mexico, and hispanics do not have any more right to alter the country than any other group. They came her, and they should adapt, or go back to where they came from. No, there families did not, either. Most down there are mixes of local Indian tribes and Spaniards.

You are correct. Hispanics do not have any more right than English speaking people, and as such, since the vast majority of the offices in this country are English speaking, having this on in Spanish is just fine.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist and claim that they are offensive merely because they choose to exist and follow their culture.. which predated yours. Their families lived there when it WAS still Mexico.

Your prejudice is showing.

What a crock. You were already told, a post about yours, why you are mistaken, but you can't see the facts.

The fact is, this is The United States of America, not Mexico, and hispanics do not have any more right to alter the country than any other group. They came her, and they should adapt, or go back to where they came from. No, there families did not, either. Most down there are mixes of local Indian tribes and Spaniards.

You are correct. Hispanics do not have any more right than English speaking people, and as such, since the vast majority of the offices in this country are English speaking, having this on in Spanish is just fine.

No, it is not "fine" to have an entire government office speaking in a foreign language. it is not "fine" to have one immigrant culture treated as better than all the rest. That sort of thing is, in fact, racist.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist

I'm sorry, but the primitive nature of your approach is rather appalling. What you call a "group" in my case is Russian. I do not advocate any sort of supremacy of Russians among others. Or Hispanics above others. You insisting on that it all binds to "existence" or "right to exist" is so bogus, and reveals the shallow nature of our argument. Come on, you can't be that stupid.

Your prejudice is showing.

I wasn't even born here, my skin is not entirely white and I have friends from all corners of the world and language backgrounds. Anyone who would call me prejudiced has to be an imbecile. And so I say that PC has replaced critical thinking in your brain. If you like Mexico so much, do us a favor, pack up and take the first flight to South of the border.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Since there isn't an official language, there is no legal definition of 'forgein language'. Your argument is invalid.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Since there isn't an official language, there is no legal definition of 'forgein language'. Your argument is invalid.

Ahhh, so you are speaking Legalese now?

Dude...

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I cannot believe that you could be so thick as to not see that you are advocating YOUR group over anothers right to exist

I'm sorry, but the primitive nature of your approach is rather appalling. What you call a "group" in my case is Russian. I do not advocate any sort of supremacy of Russians among others. Or Hispanics above others. You insisting on that it all binds to "existence" or "right to exist" is so bogus, and reveals the shallow nature of our argument. Come on, you can't be that stupid.

Your prejudice is showing.

I wasn't even born here, my skin is not entirely white and I have friends from all corners of the world and language backgrounds. Anyone who would call me prejudiced has to be an imbecile. And so I say that PC has replaced critical thinking in your brain. If you like Mexico so much, do us a favor, pack up and take the first flight to South of the border.

You aren't the person I was referring to in my post. Your points mean little.