WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by samkent
 


I have proven and given the steps to independently validate it. It was the government's decision to only analyze one beam.

I think that the ball is in your court to disprove it. I'm a degreed metallurgist with over 20 years developing aluminum, iron, and copper base alloys. I have no obligations to publish my credentials.

Nice straw man argument. Now, read what I wrote. And, disprove it. If you can, I will admit that I'm wrong. Best of Luck.
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by ibiubu
 


I have had correspondence with the MIT metallurgists that did the analysis on WTC 1&2 Appdx C. I believe they were pressured, and I got out of the 911 truth movement as I was bombarded with emails and people tracking my internet activity. There is no benefit in being the guy to stand up and prove it.
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)


After two conversations with Dr. Jones about his DSC analysis of nano-thermate, I came to the conclusion that he is a disinfo agent. There is no such thing as nano-thermate.
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)


In fact, he spent a great deal of time analyzing the paint on the beams. Use of aluminothermic thermate would leave no signature or trace in the dust, as the resultant products are aluminum oxide and iron that are present from other sources. The answer is in the microstructure.
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-1-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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Well said.

Now would be a good moment to read this page 18, and then read the whole thread, if your curiosity got spiked by the subject.
Title : Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s.

I believe that the triple demolition on 9/11 was done by a mixture of explosives.
Thermobaric bombs to blow up whole floors, by the omni-directional forces from such TB's.
High Explosives (HE) or High Explosive Thermite cutter charges to cut certain core columns at pre-calculated heights.
HE dislocation charges to push the just before cut columns from their "seats" that were just cut through.

The thermobaric bombs going off are clearly to see in the -BoneZ- video posted by him on this board, and used by me as my nr 5 evidence in my huge 9/11 Evidence post. Note his accompanying audio, that shows the initiation of the North Tower and the cadenced row of explosions to be heard. Note also the man telling us that he heard clearly all the explosions, but when he listened the next day to the TV repeats, they were all filtered OUT.

The effects of cutter charges are also clearly to see in my References nr 5 video by John Sosman from my huge evidence post, where you see the dark muffler blanket being spit out of one window just under the lowest plane impact floor at the North Tower. And where you can simply measure the ejection speed of it, and of the explosive cloud first spitting out of that _

Note that no floor was "collapsing" yet. Electricity for the whole WTC complex was cut off between 9:30 and 10:00 A.M. in the Con-Edison ground floor in WTC 7, so it can't be an exploding transformer. Which by the way stood in the 3 mechanical double-floors, and this was just a normal tenant floor, where that demolition-muffler mat/blanket spitted out from.
Gas is strictly forbidden in high risers. Paint cans do not have this power when exploding in a fire.
And none of these debunker-excuses are rolled in muffler blankets.


ibiubu, it would be of great profit for us all, to contact the engineer working together with David Chandler (view his video's in my huge post, and the link to him is in it), and ask him to perform your tests. I think he would be extremely interested to perform such a test, since he also proved already that thermite can be made quite explosive.
It will be interesting to see an FAE or better, a TB with a thermite or depleted uranium core explode.
I have posted a crude recipe for a TB on this board, search with the term " LaBTop Hellhound " and he could try it out too.
By the way, don't ever give one of us keyboard cowboys your credentials. Then you will have a quiet life.
It's your arguments that will silence them.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
It's highly advisable for all non-believers of the official 9/11 Commission Report and the NIST Reports' investigations into the events on 9/11/2001,
and also very beneficial for this ATS 9/11 Forum its internal PEACE,
to counter any further threads- and posts disturbances, by well known disturbers who never answer 9/11-Conspiracies evidence-loaded posts by LINKING THIS POST as a STANDARD ANSWER to these "simple- or one liner" posts disturbers :


LaBTop : WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.
ANSWER THIS HUGE POST BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER THREAD-DISTURBING UNSUBSTANTIATED POSTS.


Remind them also of all posts by me in these threads :


Three threads of recent interest (this thread, and these two) where I felt the need to post a few details that in fact also fall under the umbrella of this thread its own title, are also a partly repository for what follows a bit further down :

Lets Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Arguments
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

2011 Toronto 9/11 Hearings.(Full Length Video)
www.abovetopsecret.com...



This is for those die-hard official story defenders, that keep spreading lies, saying that there were no explosions recorded nor witnessed :

NewAgeMan posted these two video's, the second one with solid evidence of 118 firefighter witnesses who are all totally sure of explosives, against 10 firefighters that follow the official no-explosives line. The second 2 hours long one is packed with sometimes never before seen or heard explosion sounds and eyewitness interviews on 9/11.

That information comes from the second, 10:13 minutes long video from Prof. Graeme MacQueen's about his research of 12,000 pages of "First Responder Documents: FDNY and Port Authority Police", where he counted all firefighters explosions witnesses, and also those that explicitly said there were none.
118 against 10. Sounds that were explained f.ex. as "Booms" or "Bangs" he did not count from those 12,000 pages.
503 Experienced firefighters who have heard lots of explosive sounds in their career were divided in supporters and refuters of explosion sounds, and were both counted in a honest scientific procedure.
375 of them were not counted because their reports did not fit the criteria which were set in advance. Only explicit "explosion" sounds recalled by these men were counted.
Still 118 in favor of explosions, against 10 in favor of the Official Story without explosives.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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And then that first video by Capuccinokid (he has a lot of other good video's up) :

www.youtube.com...



0:00:00 Watch and listen carefully to those 2 and later 1 firefighters story. There was a secondary and later a third explosion, while they were waiting to go higher up, the whole lobby collapsed in itself at the secondary one.

0:03:10 Arthur DelBianco in his hospital bed, telling about "All of the sudden it was like bullet shots, and then three TREMENDOUS explosions and everything started to coming down".

0:03:40 Official: "I got, uh, an eyewitness who said there was an explosion on floors 7 and 8; 7,8".
Then follows a half hour with a lot of other talk about explosions and actual explosions to be heard :

0:35:04 and 0:35:11 Deep explosion sound, (this one I have never seen and heard before)

0:53:00 Arturo Griffith, who was trapped in an elevator when he went up from B1 to the 49th floor, the elevator stopped, cables came falling down and the cage fell a few floors before the safety breaks came in and got a tight hold. Then the doors of the elevator cage were blown INWARDS by an explosion outside that elevator cage doors, meaning there was a huge explosion OUTSIDE, in that low floor level. He thinks that one of those doors broke his leg. Then another explosion threw him against the wall of the elevator and he was unconscious for a couple of minutes. He later got rescued.

0:53:20 Kenneth Summers interviewed by a TV station from New York, in his hospital bed in Livingston, N.J. and giving the MOST DEFINITIVE DESCRIPTION OF A THERMOBARIC BOMB GOING OFF on 9/11 I ever heard, in one of the Towers. He was in the lobby mailing a letter :


"When I walked into the revolving doors of the lobby, the last door before you get to the outside, and I was gonna walk around the building and go up to the Postal Service to get some special stamps, and, eh, I had no sooner walked out the door when I heard a wishing roaring noise, eh, and I looked to my left and I see a friend of mine, ehh, with terror on his face racing for cover. And then I saw several other people that I didn't recognize, also heading for cover. And, eh, I looked, eh, I heard the, a Boomm and the ground tremble, and,eh, the next thing I know I was looking up to the roof and I seeing stuff coming off the roof. I figured my best bet would be to get back into the building, so to avoid the stuff coming off the roof. I know as soon as I was going back into the revolving door, when, eh, eh, all of a sudden it seems like the whole lobby, the door I was in and everything filled up with a yellowish brownish, eh, combustible mixture.
I didnt really smell any different, but, there wasnt, it took so quickly to happen, it was like a tenth of a second and the next thing I know is a major explosion, which Im now thrown back out through both of these revolving doors and back outside underneath the overhang where the taxis were coming. I was on fire
, I quickly put my shirt out and kinda douche my hair and just started to stagger away, as fast as I could."
up to 0:55:26.

The crux of the matter here is the fact Kenneth didn't smell ANYTHING DIFFERENT.
I can assure you, if that yellowish brownish combustible mixture would have been jet fuel, he would have remembered that for the rest of his life.
But modern TB explosive mixtures are without any smell. It was one of the requirements of the DoD's Acquisition department. Don't want to wake up the enemy, ain't it?
Unreacted TB material is very caustic and very poisonous.
Remember that USGS report with that remark in it that the water in the 9/11 "WTC bathtub" was strongly caustic? And that lots of out of place chemicals were found around the WTC complex? Around, since they were not allowed to measure inside the debris heaps.
Remember all the 9/11 rescue workers with all those very strange cancers?
Remember that "politically correct" woman in an official position who backed up mayor Giuliani and declared Manhattan and New York air safe to breath after a week already? She should be handed a life sentence for second degree murder. She knew it wasn't safe at all. Giuliani should sit beside her. These two have the life blood of thousands of extra victims and their deaths on their hands. Give a life sentence to his NY police commissioner friend too, Bernard Kerik, he surely knew much more. He's already in prison, his masters think he's safer there. For them. And for his former colleagues. An accident can be easily arranged by disgruntled police staff in the US. He knows and they know.
You can see him standing behind Giuliani in this video, where Giuliani says gas was not the cause of explosions, then turns shortly to him for additional help. He's the bold one under the white clock indicating 16 to 3. At 1:21:51 in the video.
And at 1:35:26 Giuliani admits they turned the gas off already early on. See Kerik alone also at 2:05:00.

0:59:25 WB11 producer Christina Summers gets interviewed in the evening of 9/11 and tells how itchy her eyes were and how her skin's been itchy. (Most non-reacted components of modern TB's are very caustic. See my Mine Action link.)

1:09:42 Big and low explosion sound from the south, from about 5 to 10 blocks away (Never saw and heard this one too). You clearly see the whole north side of WTC 7 standing in the center of the screen. With a whole lot of WHITE STEAM heaped up at the bottom north side where no fire or debris damage from the North Tower was, but that steam cloud was suddenly there AFTER that huge explosion sound! One guy shouts "another plane coming", which gives us quite a good clue what time this was, together with the shadows angles.
Then a minute further in this video you hear someone shout "a gas leak, the gas is coming" while a child can see that that is no gas, but steam. By the way, the gas main was already very early shut off. Just as the main electricity and the water mains.

1:32:00 That blond news woman tells about a firefighter who ran with her in front of a flame front and then covered her with his body, after throwing her against a wall. She says that huge explosion with that huge flame front happened around 10:44 A.M., so, AFTER the second tower fell !

1:33:12 Robert Pesce, from his hospital bed : "And I saw that was buses that were burned, fire engines trucks that were burned, police cars that were burned. It looked like a fireball came right up the street and took out everything what's in its path."
This again would be exactly the effect of a huge TB going off.

1:39:00 This African-American named Peat Norbert says he heard that CRACKLING sound he will never forget, and then the building exploded......
That's the static electricity, charging the explosive cloud from a TB, then it ignites, kaboooom.
Same crackling sound as reported by two office workers, a man and a woman, just before the 5 OKC bombs went off, which was for sure also a Thermobaric bombing event.
Search for my posts about it, with the links to their witness statements.

1:57:40 The same blond female reporter. She heard three explosions since both towers went down......Its also printed on the NBC screen : Both World Trade Center Towers Have Collapsed.

1:59:00 Male reporter voice : "Its now 11 o'clock. Still we hear continuing explosions.
Listen to the other male reporter after that, who says that at a quarter to eleven another explosion went off, and it looked as if a forest fire rolled through the canyons of downtown Manhattan.
A firefighter he spoke about it, thought that was the sound of fifty floors collapsing. This all AFTER the second tower went down ! You can find these explosions as hard evidence in the LDEO seismic chart from 08:30 to 18:00 hrs on 9/11, posted by me here. These extra explosions have never been addressed by NIST, FEMA, LDEO or whomever it should have concerned.
That damn sure sounds in that description, like TB's flame fronts.
TickHeaded, these TB's set off late, are probably the solution for your endless quest for the answer to your curiosity what exactly caused all these burned cars in South Manhattan.

2:04:00 Male reporter in white shirt : "When you're down there Dan, in the streets, you hear smaller secondary explosions going off every fifteen or twenty minutes ( more than an hour after North Tower went down).

2:09:25 That lost video with that deep explosion sound, seconds before total collapse of WTC 7.
Which total collapse has no discernible sound to hear, only that deep explosion sound a few seconds before it collapsed. THE HUGE FIRST PACK OF PEAKS EXPLOSION RESULT IN MY SEISMOGRAM OF WTC 7's COLLAPSE.
And then a few more video's of that event. Up to the end of this Must-See video.

This is all the evidence once collected by that great guy from Denmark, I'm really glad we have it back, see my dead links to his site in so many of my posts, "TerrorDenmark.com" or terrordk.com or so.

Thank you so much, cappucinokid, for re-collecting it all again.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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NewAgeMan posted this link in the other thread for me too, he didn't realize I posted that link already in one of the three threads I have linked to already and am participating recently in :

Furlong &Ross seismic and radar impact times study.

Their results and thesis, combined with my WTC 7 thesis, point irrefutably to the same conclusion :

Bombs were set off in the North and South Towers and WTC 7, which resulted in their true seismic signals and true receipt times at the LDEO seismic station at Palisades, NY State. As recorded on 9/11/2001.

And later were these correct times more and more falsificated, to comply to the crooked manner of research of NIST, ordered by the US Government, which is already for decades in the claws of the military-industrial complex. They did 9/11, together with some other interested parties. Hegemony in their influence spheres was their reward. Militaries, banks, industrial conglomerates, governments. There were far too many satellites up above the eastern seaboard, to let these guys have a front seat on 9/11. But, Silence is Consent....
We've been framed by half the world, who willingly turned a blind eye after that blunt mistake of 9/11.

For the Twin Towers there were also very reliable UTC FAA flight controller timestamped planes impact reports. And also UTC radar reported times of planes impact, which differ 14 seconds for Flt 11 with the LDEO UTC seismic times for the North Tower, and differ 17 seconds for Flt 175 with the LDEO UTC seismic times for the South Tower.
So both UTC radar results differed many seconds with both the UTC seismic time stamps.

For WTC 7 times I came to the same conclusion, namely that their Cianca photo time stamp which is calculated by NIST based on the second plane Flt 175 impact in the South Tower is based totally on the 911 Commission Radar reports results, and must thus be corrected by 17 seconds.

Because those radar results were totally right. And had after that over the years been so doctored by the US Government, the US Military, the 911 Commission and NIST, that nothing fitted anymore the 9/11 reality.

Miraculous enough, when we correct that LDEO seismogram of the WTC 7 collapse with those same radar based 17 seconds difference, backwards corrected and now placed on the LDEO graph, but only for the placement on that graph of that Cianca photo event (first kink of penthouse), the whole seismogram events fit exactly in all observed events around that collapse.

And then it becomes clear that also in case of WTC 7, there was first a bomb exploded (I'm sure a huge TB), and then 8.3 seconds later, caused by overcoming of inertia in all that steel, the following global collapse proceeded first as a 2.5 seconds free fall, since that TB took out 8 floors worth of all its steel resistance, and then it proceeded as a normal gravitational collapse with quickly rising resistance from the crushing in on itself, massive pack of steel. When that whole block of 47 minus 8 is 39 massive floors banged on the bedrock and started crushing itself caused by its own inertial mass being suddenly halted by the bedrock.

Since we know from the research of Professor Brown in the OKC bombing, that bombs connected to steel in buildings have a much greater seismic recording effect on the bedrock under that building than the whole collapse of such a building, that first pack of peaks has to have been caused by an explosion. Since it is far bigger than the following pack of peaks depicting the whole building collapsing.
The 2.5 seconds free fall is also exactly depicted in that seismogram, together with its slower begin and end. That dip in the middle of these two packs of seismic peaks.
First pack=bomb, dip=freefall, second pack=total collapse.

We have conclusively solved all the 9/11 problems. We are done.

Now on to justice for the victims, and those are not those 2800 on 9/11...
What about 2 million victims.

Soldiers, freedom fighters and civilians. From the US and from all those countries those US politicians liked to bring "democrazy" to......

They all have a lot of now revengeful family.
Each or one of them will find a 9/11-perpetraitor....the outcome I can't predict, but I would not like to occupy their shoes, when they got busted.
That can go from prison time to death sentence.
Let them hope they reach an honest court.

Expect a lot of bloodshed to come. Perpetraitors will not go down without a fight.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 05:53 PM
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The whole crux of the matter is based on the only obvious conclusion that can be argumented by simple logic.

It were not PLANE impacts that were registered by LDEO its seismographs, but BOMBS going off, since high explosive bombs on steel with explosive speeds of 8,000 to 22,000 meter per SECOND have a MUCH heavier vibrational impact on the bedrock under Manhattan than the impact of a plane at 500 miles per HOUR on the top steel parts of each Twin Tower. As Professor Brown from OKC bombing fame told us.
(500 MPH is about 800 KMH is 222.22 meter per second is 100 times less than a cutter-TB exploding)

Thus, LDEO registered two bombings for each Twin tower, the first one to simulate the plane impact (which did not show up on the seismogram at all, or got lost in the "tail" of the first bomb), the second one an hour or more later, to bring the tower down.
I have posted corrected seismograms for South and North Tower collapses, where I scaled it up to 10 nm/s instead of 100 nm/s sensitivity. There you see the bomb and the gravitational collapse separated by a few seconds, and the bombs for all three demolitioned towers were of the same magnitude, as you can clearly see.
LDEO its seismographs also registered a bomb in WTC 7, and then its total collapse caused by that same bomb.


NIST either got fooled by, or played along with this simple magician-trick planned by some old/young NSA, CIA, fill in at will some letters - operators who knew of the work done by Professor Brown for the OKC bombing, and got the luminous idea to fool all of the worlds academia, by pressing from the start of the next day, that those LDEO seismograms depicted PLANE IMPACTS, while in reality they were depicting THEIR BOMBS. And that's the reason why these seismograms were so hastily put on line, in the first day after 9/11/2001 already. That idea had to be cemented in the minds of us ALL ! And they hesitated until Friday after Tuesday 9/11, if they would risk to put the unaltered seismogram of WTC 7 on-line, then decided that the whole world was so numbed down already by their psychological warfare tricks via the media, that they would not risk much by it. And that these academics would easily be tricked by that simple scam. And they were right....
Until now.

IT TRULY WAS THAT SIMPLE.....They tricked us with a Kindergarten trick.

And thus I have now at last found the REASON why Willy Rodriguez was right, and his 30+ colleagues were right, and all those other people reporting basement explosions were right.
These explosions had only one purpose :
To simulate plane impacts on seismographs....!

All these years we all thought that they had been solely exploded to cut those huge core columns.
No, their only purpose was to set us on the wrong foot FROM THE VERY START...!

I also believe now the stories of eyewitnesses seeing big flatbed trucks with piled-up and covered gold bars on it being coming from the ramps of the towers and got hauled away over Manhattan's streets, with black uniformed security personnel running beside them, just 20 minutes before those planes impacted far above.
edit on 28/1/13 by LaBTop because: Added some arguments.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


Oh LaBTop, thats funny.

Just how much energy is in a 767 impacting at 550mph? How can you say that a 550 mph impact is negligible in comparison to an explosive? It is not the speed, but the FORCE.

You think we are tricked by kindergarten tricks. Yet, you cannot even figure out or understand basic physics lesson 1.

Also, basement bombs. Where? How? To fake seismograph records? Really?
edit on 1/29/2013 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


LaBTop,
You of all people should know the significance of F=ma^2

A cutter charge is NOT going to register a stronger signal than a 767 impacting @ 550mph. Do you not know this? You make such a long winded post with lots of "impressive" looking stuff, but upon further review, it ends up a load of horse manure.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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Original LDEO Seismic and 911 Commission plane impact times. (From Furlong&Ross) Table 1 :

=======================================
AA Flt 11 First plane impact.
2001 LDEO 8:46:26 Original seismic time = UTC 12:46:26
2004 Commission plane impact radar time = UTC 12:46:40 (14 seconds difference)
=======================================
UA Flt 175 Second plane impact.
2001 LDEO 9:02:54 Original seismic time = UTC 13:02:54
2004 Commission plane impact radar time = UTC 13:03:11 (17 seconds difference)
=======================================

The first, Flt. 11 plane-impact in the North Tower, original seismic time = UTC 12:46:26
There's 14 seconds difference with this graph's radar impact time of UTC 12:46:40
The UTC 12:46:30 graph start time must thus be corrected 14 seconds back to UTC 12:46:16 since these peaks show bombs, not a plane impact :

files.abovetopsecret.com...




The second, Flt. 175 plane-impact in the South Tower, original seismic = UTC 13:02:54
There's 17 seconds difference with this graph's radar impact time of UTC 13:03:11
The UTC 13:02:55 graph start time must thus be corrected 17 seconds back to UTC 13:02:38 since these peaks show bombs, not a plane impact :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

UTC 13:59:07 graph start time. The first, South Tower collapse; 100 nm/sec sensitivity,
UTC 13:59:04 original LDEO collapse time.
The graph start time must thus be corrected 17 seconds back to UTC 13:58:50,
since NIST used the second plane-impact as their comparison time stamp for all video's, photo's and seismograms. And that LDEO time stamp is for bombs going off instead of a plane impacting.
The radar original time stamp from the 9/11 Commission report for the 2nd plane impact is right.

files.abovetopsecret.com...



UTC 13:59:07 graph start time. First, South Tower collapse; instead of 100 nm/sec,
to 10 nm/sec corrected,
thus better sensitivity and you now see first the bomb(s) appear, note their magnitude :

files.abovetopsecret.com...




UTC 14:28:30 graph start time. The second, North Tower collapse; 100 nm/sec sensitivity,
UTC 14:28:31 original LDEO collapse time.
The graph start time must thus be corrected 17 seconds back to UTC 14:28:13


files.abovetopsecret.com...




UTC 14:28:30 graph start time. Second, North Tower collapse; instead of 100 nm/sec,
to 10 nm/sec corrected,
thus better sensitivity and you now see first the bomb(s) appear, note their magnitude :

files.abovetopsecret.com...




UTC 21:20:40 graph start time. Third, WTC 7 collapse at 10 nm/sec original sensitivity,
note the bomb(s) identical magnitudes, compared to both South and North Tower bombs
The UTC 21:20:40 graph start time must thus be corrected 17 seconds back to UTC 21:20:23

files.abovetopsecret.com...




For this WTC 7 collapse we had no comparison in the radar records, however, we do have the 5:20:46 p.m. time stamped by NIST, east penthouse denting photograph shot by Mr Cianca.
That Cianca photo time stamp must thus be in reality subtracted by the 17 seconds from the second plane impact video its radar recording difference in time = 5:20:29 p.m. And that is exactly the first definite peak we see in the above original LDEO its WTC 7 graph, at the 6s position. Which is in reality the 5:20:29 position.

Thus we have found a NY event comparison time which we can couple with the seismogram of it, by adding the 17 seconds retention time it takes for the seismic signals to travel through the earth its upper crust in upper State New York, to reach the Palisades seismic station and influence there the seismograph's writing needle.

Then we see that the second plane impact, chosen by NIST as their basic comparison video or photographs time, is 17 seconds off from radar reality.
That was their own, privately chosen time stamp, the one from the second plane impact in the South Tower, which is however 17 seconds off from the original UTC radar time stamp.
And thus NIST interpreted all other by them time stamped 9/11 events material such as TV, video, photo and seismograms time stamps wrong, for the same 17 seconds for all of them.
They used that second plane impact time as their MAIN reference time stamp. All other events were connected in their time lines with this single event.!

Thus we have to correct the timestamps from NIST and LDEO used in their WTC 7 seismogram also these17 seconds backwards.
Thus the WTC 7 seismogram's start time (printed on it by LDEO) must be changed from UTC 21:20:40 to UTC 21:20:23, which is EDT 17:20:23 which is now the +0.0s and 0s point on the WTC 7 seismogram.

The start of the first pack of peaks (the 7 bombs sounds in Chandler's 2 women + baby interview video) is then at UTC 21:20:33 which is EDT 17:20:33, the original LDEO time published on Friday 9/15/2001, which has become then the 17s point on that graph.

That's EXACTLY the point where that huge pack of bomb peaks starts.
Then we have those 8.3 seconds retention time measured by NIST in which in the firsts 4 seconds of it, that huge pack of peaks fit in as a result of the bombs exploding. So you have to count those 8.3 seconds from the 17s point on.
And then you arrive at the 25.3s point on the graph, EXACTLY where you see the pack of peaks of the global collapse started.

ALL OBSERVABLE EVENTS FROM ALL WTC 7 VIDEOS,
NOW FIT PERFECTLY IN THAT LDEO WTC 7 SEISMOGRAM.


So, yes, we are DONE.
And we have been fooled majestically.

I have to say, it really was a Houdini-worthy sleight of hands trick.
They knew there were no seismograms from planes flying into steel high risers, seismologists thus had no reference material, and were all fooled by the simple explanation that those "plane impact" seismograms depicted planes flying into those two towers.
It were however depictions of bombs going off in the basements.

The WTC 7 seismogram made it all suddenly clear, they used their planes to fool us in thinking it were PLANES in those two Twin Tower impact seismograms, not BOMBS.
edit on 29/1/13 by LaBTop because: Added more details for the Cianca photo its corrected time stamp by me.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


You have an issue though! The actual professionals that deal with explosive demolitions also disagree with your nonsense:

Implosion World pdf

Now who to believe? Someone with zero credibility about demolitions and does not know that an airliner has far more energy on impact than a cutter charge detonation, or people with decades of experience in these matters who also disagree with any explosive demolition ideas?

In fact there are no professionals that agree with you. Except for the "professionals" that got their degrees in a Cracker Jack box.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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This is what truly happened on 9/11/2001 to WTC 7, a.k.a. the Salomons Building :
files.abovetopsecret.com...







edit on 30/1/13 by LaBTop because: Cleaned up the diagram.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by LaBTop
 


Oh LaBTop, thats funny.

Just how much energy is in a 767 impacting at 550mph? How can you say that a 550 mph impact is negligible in comparison to an explosive? It is not the speed, but the FORCE.

You think we are tricked by kindergarten tricks. Yet, you cannot even figure out or understand basic physics lesson 1.

Also, basement bombs. Where? How? To fake seismograph records? Really?
edit on 1/29/2013 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)


You should seriously take yourself, a first basic Physics lesson.

Here we go again.
First, I did not say anything like that.
Secondly, it was Professor Brown who said that the whole total collapse and its resulting effect written on the seismogram he made of it, is dwarfed by the seismic effect of every single explosive in that demolition that was ignited and set off, before the resulting total collapse started.

That's what he saw on, and concluded from the demolition seismogram which he produced when they blew up the 3/4 remains of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City in 1995.
Every single explosive cutter charge they set off in that row of explosions had that effect.
Every single cutter charge which was connected to the left-over, still standing columns in that ruin.



Just how much energy is in a 767 impacting at 550mph? How can you say that a 550 mph impact is negligible in comparison to an explosive? It is not the speed, but the FORCE.


I'll try to keep it as simple as possible, since you do not grasp at all, all the other factors involved in this subject.
You can't grasp the interaction here. There are more factors in play then your formula alone. There are a few more to take in consideration.


That plane flew at a height of about 300 meters into a whole wood of steel facade columns, broke through a lot of them and got seriously slowed down by that act already. Only the heaviest parts of those planes managed to perhaps (do you have photo's of cut by a plane, core-columns? ) reach that wood of thick and strong steel and cross beamed together inner core columns.
Two jet engine core parts (small but heavy), three landing gear legs (small but heavy), the longitudinal center beam (small but heavy) and a few more beams aside that one, the wing base (heavy and broad), the wing tanks filled with jet fuel and the center tank filled with jet fuel, which exploded at facade impact, and atomized its fuel, splattering it all over the place, thus loosing a lot of its compacted mass and rearranging it to a mist of immediate ignited hydrocarbons.
All in all, that plane's speed got seriously lessened by that flat facade surface already, study the photo's in the NIST report of the huge holes in the facades, and all the plane stuff heaped up against the dislocated facade parts, those huge thick-steel Vierendeel parts, that got sheared off at their connections and shoved deeper inside by the impacting " aluminum plane tube " (did you really think that the whole mostly empty aluminum plane shape CUT through all that steel? Then you do not even understand any Physics.
By the way, most ATS readers seem not to think things thoroughly through, so you're not alone in this.
They need help, or are lazy, or miss the necessary education, so, there am I, helping them out.

Physic 101 Experiment :
Screw three, loosely filled with 1/5th part sand, soda cans together, bottom to top, and then on a thin, long enough but stiff nylon pole. Use your steel crossbow to shoot that contraption at a thick enough, 1 cm spaced wide steel netting that's CO2 welded between two LONG steel poles (about 4 meters, diameter of can must be comparable to 767 diameter and Twin Towers length), which are clamped in a workbench. Build a simple seismograph and fix it on a side leg of that workbench. Instructions in many You Tube video's. Measure the workbench vibrations when those cans find there way through that steel netting. (Do this outside) Daredevils use a 12 gouge shotgun. Or a one barrel hunting shotgun. Better not....
Now attach an avalanche detonator with duct tape at the bottom of one of the steel poles. Take cover, ignite and measure.
Report results here.


Google : vibrations, wave propulsion , inertia , momentum delay , momentum loss over distance , motion delay , shatter , scatter , slowness , etcetera.
GenRadek, that plane impacted a whole tower facade with hundreds of steel columns in it, with about a 222 m/s impact speed. That cutter charge explodes straight strapped on ONE steel core column, with a copper plasma speed of 8,000 m/s. (22,000 TB)And strapped right at the base of it. Not 300+ meters up in the sky.
Vibrations, vibrations, that's the word. Not force alone.

Do you see 22 seconds of huge vibrations in one of these two WTC collapse seismograms? I see 10 secs at the most. I see TB's....



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by LaBTop
 


You have an issue though! The actual professionals that deal with explosive demolitions also disagree with your nonsense:

Implosion World pdf

Now who to believe? Someone with zero credibility about demolitions and does not know that an airliner has far more energy on impact than a cutter charge detonation, or people with decades of experience in these matters who also disagree with any explosive demolition ideas?

In fact there are no professionals that agree with you. Except for the "professionals" that got their degrees in a Cracker Jack box.


I would ask a blind mole next time, to assist with ATS Searching. First let him be interrogated by one of your "professionals", to find out if he has the minimal amount of brain cells for such a laborious task.

It is in fact exactly this Brent Blanchard who happened to visit this 9/11 forum around 2006. I have told you to search, then read all my ATS Search - "LaBTop" seismic - and - "LaBTop" thermobaric - posts. You did not !

You would have found my interaction with Mr Blanchard here at ATS.
I challenged him to produce those damn hand held PROTEC seismograph's seismograms he is bloating about in his point 3.
He disappeared. So, I did some off-line investigation at PROTEC, and lo and behold, what a pity sir, but by some strange accident, all these seismograms have been absent from our repository for a long time already.
Mr Blanchard was a PLANT, and I dare say, he still is.

Someone is yanking your horn, and feeds you with sure downfalls. Have a very good look at the list of your on-line "friends", in there is a mole. Or, they like to have fun with you.
Or, you lack some important features in your own repository.
Probably one of our intelligent ATS members has gone undercover for a damn long time already at your beloved JREF 9/11 forum, and is befriending a lot of those lost sheeple there.
Could be someone like me...? Interesting thought, ain't that so?

My dear man, when are you going to refrain from those constant insults to my intelligence?
It's a sure sign, by the way, of a desperate mind.

I'll shortly list them up for you :
-actual professionals
-your nonsense
-Someone with zero credibility about demolitions
-the "professionals" that got their degrees in a Cracker Jack box.
-you cannot even figure out or understand basic physics lesson 1.
-it ends up a load of horse manure.

I'm sitting here, broadly grinning about those childish insults. If you would know.....
edit on 30/1/13 by LaBTop because: Found a few more. I'm lazy, there are MANY more, and every time you got beaten.


Just a quick rebut of a few points. We had a lot more that time. He was a goner, fast.
Page 3, Assertion #1. "Every implosion ever performed has followed the basic model of obliterating structural supports on the bottom few floors first, "to get the structure moving." Proved to be false.
Page 2, point 1. Proved to be false.
Page 7, point 3. You will not find molten or pre cut beams or columns in the higher than basement floors. A TB pumps up a floor, BREAKING all welds and bolts, not melting anything structural. The floor "bursts open", like a paint can that's got too hot. They even don't know of the existance of TB's, that's pretty clear.
Page 9, point 3 and 4. Proved to be false.
Page 12, last alinea. Of course they expected very short-lived, high amplitudes. But a TB gives longer-lived and higher amplitudes, as seen in all collapse seismograms. All these seismologists lack the knowledge to interpret TB's in a seismogram. I hope they did learn, and open up.
edit on 30/1/13 by LaBTop because: Added a few quick rebuts to Blanchard from memory, see the 2006 posts for much more of him and us.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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The whole 9/11 subject is comparable to the Lance Armstrong doping subject.

Everybody interviewed acts angry, but deep inside they think, well, everybody did it, so let them cycle on with as much dope until they fall flat, perhaps they stop doing it when they understand how bad it is for their health.
Until then, we are so used to the times and performances under that influence, that we would be surprised when those cyclists would stop doing it. And have trouble to get used to much slower end times again.

We do not realize, that the problem THUS lays with us, in our minds.

They play it dirty for a very long time already, so we are so used to that, that we accept it as NORMAL, and react curious and often furious when someone plays it honest.
Like the local debunkers here and all over the Internet.

Realize that for one time : the HONEST guys loose in this kind of acceptance-climate.
But in the end, they always win, since wisdom will win.

EXACTLY THE SAME GOES for 9/11, the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin incidents, all the Kennedy murders, Martin Luther King murder, the list is endless.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


A short addition to that post :

The a few seconds after the basement explosions, impacting plane and its own much smaller seismic effect, was overwhelmed in the seismograms by the aftermath vibrations of those steel-columns coupled explosives.
Which was planned like that, the explosions and the impacts were close together, within a ten seconds time-_

For the survivors like the two below ones, it was a totally different experience, they probably did not feel much from the basement explosions, but much more from the plane impacts, so high up.
The swaying described is a slow impedance effect after the plane impact, caused by the huge inertia of those massive amounts of floors swinging, while the basement explosions did not really swing those towers that high up.

But the cutter charge or TB explosions, that close to the bedrock, had a far stronger seismic effect, caused by their much higher molecular strike effect. Those dense resulting vibrations are much faster per second than the plane impact 300 meter up. And not slowed down and muffled by hundreds of meters of vertical tapered steel columns and their horizontal cross-beams. And thus transfers effectively a great part of the energy of the explosion into the bedrock where these huge columns were cemented into.


When the first plane hit the North Tower on about the 90th floor it was nowhere near as dramatic as you would think on the 65th floor, just 25 floors down. There was a definite explosion but it did not sound that bad.
There was a big flash of light. The really scary part was how much the building moved, and kept moving, for a long time before re-stabilizing.
Bruce Stephen, WTC Survivor.
www.newyork-stories.com...
--snip--
...I heard a loud explosion, which was immediately followed by tremendous building sways and vibrations. As I was thrown out of my chair, I immediately thought that this was an earthquake, but still thinking rationally, I thought that it was abnormal since there are no earth-quakes in NYC, especially of this magnitude. I remember thinking that the building felt like it was going to collapse from this initial explosion. Cary Sheih, WTC Survivor.
www.newyork-stories.com...



posted on Jan, 31 2013 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


More problems for you LaBTop.

I search ATS with every conceivable mix of Blanchard and your alleged interaction and cannot really find anything of the sort. I've tried your name and his. Your name, his name, thermobarics, WTC7, etc, and nothing is coming up. Unless you were under another name perhaps?

And yes I have read your long winded posts. And yet you still come up with serious issues that nullify your results, no matter how hard you twist and haw and hem about how wrong everyone else is.

Once again, if there were explosives powerful enough going off to overwhelm the collapses on the seismographs, then by all accounts we should have HEARD THEM prior to collapse. And yet nothing! Not one damn video, recording, or even credible account of massive blasts going off. Any explosive powerful enough to register on a seismograph is not going to be silenced or muffled. its going to shatter any windows nearby and cause serous blast damage AND wounds. Where were they LaBTop? I recall severe burns and impact trauma, but no barometric injuries. No ruptured eardrums. Nothing of the sort. Even the guys in the basement didnt incurr any such injuries. Especially if it is THERMOBARIC EXPLOSIVE LaBTop. THAT is the whole damn point of a THERMOBARIC explosive.

And again you forget that any sort of explosive exploding is going to make one hell of a bang. Especially one that is supposed to completely blast an entire floor apart. If this was the case, there where exactly was the evidence on the steel beams during recovery? I'm sure someone found some evidence of such blast patterns.

As to the aircraft impact. You fall into the tried and true method truthers have calling the airplane an empty beer can. Yes, of course that means its entire mass just evaporates on impact right? On impact with the tower at 550 mph, the whole damn tower rocked and swayed and even at the base things were knoced off the columns because of the vibrations. Do not tell me the impact was nothing special and not enough to register on the seismograph. Oh yes and lets not forget what the exterior columns were connected to? Thats right! The CORE columns. But how? Oh yeah! The floor trusses! and why did the whole Tower rock on impact when as you claim, it never really hit the core columns? And do not tell me that the vibrations would not transfer through the entire structure on impact either. Geeze LaBTop, you are all over the place and still missing key parts. Victory for you is still well out of reach.

No if there was an explosion in the basement, were was it? You cannot still give me a reason or proof the basement columns in the core were severed by anything. Why did the core base remain standing? Why did people survive in the core if core columns in the base were severed or blown up by these magical thermobaric bombs? Again, how did the guys survive in the basements and the subways and in the underground areas of the WTC if such powerful THERMOBARIC explosives went off? You do know the damages done to humans with these weapons right? after all you are the one crowing about how special they are.

And this is still perplexing because in one breath you say it was these magic thermobaric bombs, and then in the next it was cutter charges. Or was it cutter charges on the WTC Towers and TBs in the WTC7? Or was it the other way around?

Do you have actual seismograph records of these Thermobaric explosives? You say you can tell, but how exactly, if the particular device you claim did this is still so top secret? I mean its easy linking to papers and things tallking about all different types of thermobaric devices, but where can I find thermobaric seismic signatures? And again, you have to explain just how a thermobaric explosive can be quieter and yet bring about a far greater seismic signature than a conventional explosive. In the real world, the bigger the explosion, the bigger the noise. So man bugs in your theory LaBTop. No matter how hard you try to drown them in words, they still come up.



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by LaBTop
 


More problems for you LaBTop.
LT : Don't think so, quite the opposite.

I get dejected by all your misconceptions.
Here we go again. A long one....

GR :I search ATS with every conceivable mix of Blanchard and your alleged interaction and cannot really find anything of the sort. I've tried your name and his. Your name, his name, thermobarics, WTC7, etc, and nothing is coming up. Unless you were under another name perhaps?

LT : I found it in 0.46 seconds.
Title : I challenge NIST Answers to FAQ - Supplement (December 14, 2007).


LT : Same goes for that guy from that demolition firm who came to this forum and said they had lots of hand-held seismic devices seismographs from the events in New York on 9/11.
I challenged him to directly post just one of them, since I really would like to get my hands on a real one, because I am sure I can prove than even better how clear it is that there were explosions registered as seismic events, before any tower moved a millimeter.
Never heard from the guy anymore. He got whipped by his bosses probably, for going on-line with such damming potential evidence. Later we read that all the seismograms from those handhold seismographs got lost.....How convenient.


Take the time to read that whole page 11 ! Then also read pages 13 and 14 from this thread,
titled : Need Unequivocal Evidence of WTC7 Demolition
Page 13 and Page 14.
While you MUST keep at hand, a printed out version of my old 2005 to 2007 thesis seismogram with all my texts spread over it. Otherwise you will not be able to understand at last, how NIST came to its own Cianca photo time stamping of 17:20:46 P.M. in 2004.
Which is by the way, now in 2013, still the same ! And that's their own comparison event in New York, which they could have used to interpret their own LDEO seismogram given to them by LDEO. They never even got that idea.
I had to offer that to them, and then the greatest effort by NIST, to hide all their own seismic work already done by external sources, unfolded.
And that's why I will do everything in my might to nail their coffin closed.

GR :And yes I have read your long winded posts. And yet you still come up with serious issues that nullify your results, no matter how hard you twist and haw and hem about how wrong everyone else is.

LT : So, why not list them and try to refute them?
And still I have to be more precise, because you prove again and again that even when I try to explain it as low graded, simplistic as can be for any passing-by readers with a lack of, or a low degree of education (that's not an insult btw, you can be very intelligent without any education, the opposite is still true and alive in broad academic circles -very stupid with a lot of education- do I hear someone whisper, N I S T), you however still can't grasp the quintessence of the arguments, as you are going to prove again in your below quoted words.
I must admit however, you have the fighting spirit of a pit-bull, who are known for their endurance, you can park them hanging with their jaws clamped around a tree branch 3 meters high, and when you return after one hour, the damn dog still hangs there. It says something about character, stamina and I suppose about the dog's intelligence. I don't see a German Teckle do it. Such a dog would hang for not more than a few seconds, realizes the shear stupidity of such a behavior, lets loose, walks away and goes on with his everyday life, not wasting a full hour of that enjoyable life.

GR : Once again, if there were explosives powerful enough going off to overwhelm the collapses on the seismographs

LT: You still make the same mistake, as do most of the readers, by the way.
You connect the TOTAL destructive energy input to the TOTAL destructive resulting output.
Now those two TOTAL's differ immensely in value. But still the first small input let the whole building fail as the resulting output. Go contemplating what I mean, come back and report what you learned.
Engage for once in an actual debate. Instead of throwing loose sentences around, while never addressing the real issues. Come with solid arguments.

GR : then by all accounts we should have HEARD THEM prior to collapse. And yet nothing! Not one damn video, recording, or even credible account of massive blasts going off.

LT: This is clearly not civic nor honest debating anymore, you now introduce knowingly a pack of lies.
I have given you by now, numerous videos with the explosives sounds not filtered out. Mostly lately FOIA freed ones from the huge hidden NIST repository.
Can you explain to the gathered crowd (looks around and sees nobody and smiles) how in that WTC 7 collapse video, you can hear the deep explosion sound 2 seconds before the whole building starts to sink down, while during that sinking of a huge 47 stories high building, you hear no sound at all from that collapse? Why can we hear that explosion sound, but not that immense sound from that global total collapse from that distance of 9 blocks away?
So you did not listen to the FOIA freed from NIST, -BoneZ- and Chandler videos?
Are you nearly deaf by any chance? Not an insult, just an establishment of a possible reason for such strange on-line behavior.
Come on, refute these video's with explosion sounds in them :


LaBTop : Huge evidence post.
ANSWER THIS HUGE POST BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER THREAD-DISTURBING UNSUBSTANTIATED POSTS.



GR : Any explosive powerful enough to register on a seismograph is not going to be silenced or muffled. its going to shatter any windows nearby and cause serous blast damage AND wounds. Where were they LaBTop? I recall severe burns and impact trauma, but no barometric injuries. No ruptured eardrums. Nothing of the sort. Even the guys in the basement didnt incurr any such injuries. Especially if it is THERMOBARIC EXPLOSIVE LaBTop.

LT : Again you demonstrate not to grasp the interaction between power and speed. A cutter charge its copper plasma cuts through a steel beam like butter, but its sound is a disappointing cracking sound.
And for the umpteenth time, it is very simple to muffle a cutter charge, ask a demolition professional if water is an effective muffler for a cutter charge. A cutter charge will not be halted in any way by the nylon wall of a container filled with water. Or do you still not understand at all how a demolition expert who is covertly working, would do that?
You just demonstrated you still have not the slightest clue what the differences are between an FAE and a TB.
An FAE has that vacuum effect (Russia Vacum Bomba), not however a TB. A TB has the huge pressure build-up suddenly and the flame front burning peoples skin off, as demonstrated by the stories of Willy Rodriguez and his 30+ friends/co-workers about them helping their surviving wounded friends out of the lower basements where those TB's exploded, who had the skin hanging from their arms and torso's. Or the Asian lady coming out of the Lobby, with no cloth on but with all her skin hanging from her body, looking as if she was clothed in draping. She died in the hospital. And everybody WITHIN a TB its flame front periphery is DEAD from the pressure. Only outside that flame front you stand a chance. Did you not read how many DEAD people were found in those basements just after those huge explosions? And you will try to make us think that these deads were caused by vibrations at 300 meter high up following a plane impact?
You are loosing contact with reality.
Ruptured eardrums occur with FAE's, and eventually outside the periphery of a TB blast front. All victims who are dead have ruptured eardrums in both blast scenario's, but logically can't tell that anymore, do you understand that logic?

GR : THAT is the whole damn point of a THERMOBARIC explosive.

LT : No, the whole damn point of a TB is that you can easily calculate its "balloon-blow up" effect in a certain space, f.ex. a WTC floor or basement when you possess the construction plans of them, and then dial the calculated/intended explosive power on that TB with the aid of a simple knob.

GR : And again you forget that any sort of explosive exploding is going to make one hell of a bang. Especially one that is supposed to completely blast an entire floor apart. If this was the case, there where exactly was the evidence on the steel beams during recovery? I'm sure someone found some evidence of such blast patterns.

LT : Didn't listen to Willy Rodriguez, have we! Or to the -BoneZ- and Chandler video's, have we? That were some hell of a bangs. Or the two women plus baby on arm video filmed 9 blocks away from a collapsing WTC 7..?
And you seem to not want to grasp what I have written so many times already. A TB leaves nearly no traces at all, since the formulations for covert use (most of them) are chosen to leave no traces, only burn soot which is abundant in any building fires. You have to meticulously search for eventual traces of the small HE charges that initiate the clouds. And Bush, Cheney and Rice took care that that did not happen on their watch, the USDS was not even allowed to sample in the ground zero area, only far around it.
Get it in your stubborn mind, TB's do not leave any traces of importance, that's why all governments covertly using them, do want to keep the lid on them and do not publicize their intrinsic details.

GR : As to the aircraft impact. You fall into the tried and true method truthers have calling the airplane an empty beer can. Yes, of course that means its entire mass just evaporates on impact right? On impact with the tower at 550 mph, the whole damn tower rocked and swayed and even at the base things were knoced off the columns because of the vibrations. Do not tell me the impact was nothing special and not enough to register on the seismograph. Oh yes and lets not forget what the exterior columns were connected to? Thats right! The CORE columns. But how? Oh yeah! The floor trusses! and why did the whole Tower rock on impact when as you claim, it never really hit the core columns? And do not tell me that the vibrations would not transfer through the entire structure on impact either. Geeze LaBTop, you are all over the place and still missing key parts. Victory for you is still well out of reach.

LT : I am not into victories, and neither should you, over the dead bodies of at least two million victims of this black operation.
You still do not want to read what I already wrote. That plane its CONTOURS was not cut out in the Vierendeel steel facade plates. The plane got smashed together on the facade impact ON those facade plates, and the momentum from that, crumbled in a millisecond, aluminum mass, PUSHED many Vierendeel facade plates back, deeper into the building. And those facade plates that moved/got shot back, were severed from there connections to other still standing Vierendeel facade plates.
Why did you not follow my advice to look up the sharp photo's in the NIST reports and use a magnifying glass to observe the impact damage. You see the contours of those Vierendeel plates hacked out from that huge hole. Not the sharp contours of the plane, that plane was immediately deformed to a thin aluminum mass which had however momentum enough to break many connections at the ends of the three facade columns that were part of one Vierendeel facade packet.
And don't play silly excuses on me, the planes were crushed, not evaporated at impact. And of course the plane got registered in the seismogram, it only disappeared in the whole building up of peaks registering the basement explosion. That took about 10 seconds to build up to max peak vibrations, then dying down to standard background noise. That's why the planes had to hit high up within that time window, and they did. Read the Furlong and Ross article.!. Perhaps now you will understand what exactly they explain in their article. They basically say the same as I did in 2005 already at the now dysfunctional StudyOf911 website.

GR : Now if there was an explosion in the basement, were was it? You cannot still give me a reason or proof the basement columns in the core were severed by anything. Why did the core base remain standing? Why did people survive in the core if core columns in the base were severed or blown up by these magical thermobaric bombs? Again, how did the guys survive in the basements and the subways and in the underground areas of the WTC if such powerful THERMOBARIC explosives went off? You do know the damages done to humans with these weapons right? after all you are the one crowing about how special they are.

LT : It was where Willy Rodriguez and his thirty plus co workers said it was. When do you get that? And that premature explosion was not meant probably to severe every single column, if any at all. It's reason seems to have been to mask the plane impacts on the seismograms, and mask a peculiar 17 seconds difference in UTC times between radar and seismic reports.
And that could indicate that all video material shown on TV worldwide on 9/11 was shifted a full 17 seconds later, and the reason for that, I can't prove it yet, but I think they needed that time to filter explosion sounds out of all video material that entered the editing rooms of the main networks. It must have been an automated computerized process, no humans could do that by hand in 17 seconds, computers can.
I repeat, show me photo's of Ground Zero with 2 x 47 huge core columns sticking out of the rubble pile, photo's from within an hour or two after the last collapse of the North Tower. I have the one with the leftover stump of that right corner side stairwell, that was NOT a center core part. In there a few people survived, one of them the Korean policeman. There were no stairwells in the center core column parts. Only elevators. Stairwells were situated in the 4 corners of the buildings.
See the floor plans in the NIST reports.

GR : And this is still perplexing because in one breath you say it was these magic thermobaric bombs, and then in the next it was cutter charges. Or was it cutter charges on the WTC Towers and TBs in the WTC7? Or was it the other way around?

LT : Yup, since they needed to cut beams and columns, but they also needed to balloon-blow-up whole WTC floors and thus dislocating all beams and columns from their seats, welds and bolts. As you see in the -BoneZ- and Chandler video's I posted already so many times links to.

GR : Do you have actual seismograph records of these Thermobaric explosives? You say you can tell, but how exactly, if the particular device you claim did this is still so top secret? I mean its easy linking to papers and things tallking about all different types of thermobaric devices, but where can I find thermobaric seismic signatures?

LT : Yup, you too have them. Think that one through for a few moments, than report back if you can solve that puzzle.

GR : And again, you have to explain just how a thermobaric explosive can be quieter and yet bring about a far greater seismic signature than a conventional explosive. In the real world, the bigger the explosion, the bigger the noise. So man bugs in your theory LaBTop. No matter how hard you try to drown them in words, they still come up.

LT : Where do I say that they are quieter? They were quieter in the case of WTC 7 since the FBI , NYPD etc herded all outsiders about 9 blocks away. NINE damn blocks man. Do you understand now, why you vaguely hear that TB going off, but not the whole following WTC 7 collapse sound?
And for both Twin Towers, for once, listen to the -BoneZ- video.......those huge explosion sounds in specific cadence at initiation of both collapses, those were ALL thermobaric devices ! Only one explosive can do that to a building, pump it up, break all steel connections and then bleed off through the relatively small window holes.
edit on 1/2/13 by LaBTop because: Typo's.



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 04:39 AM
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These are the ATS Search terms I used to find Blanchard :
"LaBTop" handheld seismographs

And I found 9 highly advisably readable results, if you want to know about what has been written about seismic evidence on this board already years ago :

1. (N.A.) At last, The "Watergate" Of 9/11 : , page 3
2. I challenge NIST Answers to FAQ - Supplement (December 14, 2007) : page 11
3. Need Unequivocal Evidence of WTC7 Demolition, page 13
4. 8 - Above Top Secret
5. Proof of the Gash on WTC-7 ?, page 5
6. NIST WTC7 status report, page 5
7. Proof of the Gash on WTC-7 ?, page 4
8. Need Unequivocal Evidence of WTC7 Demolition, page 12
9. 911 Eyewitness - A Complete Sham, page 3

in one of them, this one, titled Proof of the Gash on WTC-7 ?, page 5 you get from bsbray11 the link to this thread about Blanchard's pdf.

This post of mine says it all :


posted on 21/5/07 :
LT : This guy from Protec has written some sort of rebuttal on a debunking site.
He NEVER EVER delivered the seismic graphs from his hand held devices to the public domain.
He keeps talking and expect us to believe, about no seismic proof for standard demolitions, while we saw with our own eyes, a televised event, which definitely did not look as a standard demolition. That were 2 top down demo's, and 1 bottom up.

And I suspect him to have them NOT offered to dr. Kim from LDEO, to be included in dr. Kim's 2006 second seismic report, written for NIST, who hired dr. Kim to do so.
Or perhaps, he did, and then NIST was "not amused" with it?

And then NIST removed every hint to dr. Kim's 2006 ""NIST"" seismic report from all their sites.

Just as they did for a thorough report from an engineering firm they also hired to write a report on the causes and effects of the 9/11 collapses.
That report, by the way, did not fit AT ALL in the NIST "picture", so they removed it.

BTW, in my view, NIST is not an entity, made up by thousands of honest scientists.
The NIST I see and mention all the time, is a cluster of politically appointed CEO's, who prescribe those honest hardworking researchers what to look at, and what to ignore. And if they step out of line, their career is toast.


Blanchard got a photographer Award for his work for that magazine.


This is another Blanchard search hit titled : NIST WTC7 status report, page 5, read very carefully that whole page, since all relevant seismic information is posted on that page in 2007 already. Read ALL posts if you want to educate yourself about seismic 9/11 subjects !
All the questions repeated for the umpteenth time in this thread, were already answered in that 2007 page !
And sometimes better than the recent answers.

To top it off, read the Clarification posted on 9/3/06, that Blanchard added on page 12 of his pdf. He was working at PROTEC Documentation Services.
That should do it for now.



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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GenRadek, perhaps this explanation by wecomeinpeace in October 2006 makes the whole explosion versus plane impact seismic effects, suddenly clear for you :


Perhaps it was I who did not explain well enough, so I'll try again. The seismic activity recorded from these events is simply energy propagated through the structure and transformed into ground motion. The stronger the object affected is coupled to the ground, and the less flex in that object, the more energy is transferred to the ground and hence into ground motion, i.e. seismic activity. When the planes struck the towers high up, much of the kinetic energy would be used to do work bending the structure and thus be absorbed by it, therefore less energy is transferred to the ground. (And the buildings did sway a lot when struck, as is documented). It's the same principle which makes air bags and crumple zones work for crash safety. If the planes had struck the buildings low down near to the ground where there is less flex and therefore less work done in bending the structure, then more energy would be transferred into peak seismic motion. The same applies for explosions on the base columns.

Here's another practical experiment akin to yours. Plant a small, 50cm high sapling in a pot of earth. Stand a toy soldier next to the base. Now strike the top of the sapling with a hammer and watch the toy soldier. He will barely move if at all, but the sapling will bend a lot. Now strike the sapling just above where it enters the earth. The sapling will not bend and the energy of the blow will instead be transferred efficiently into moving the earth in the pot. A miniature earthquake! The toy soldier will fall over. The high strike will produce longer duration "seismic activity" in the pot as the sapling sways, but lower peak seismic energy. This practical and common sense observation is why I asked if you have any scientific, observational, or experimental support for your contention.

So my point is that comparing the energy of the plane impacts to the energy of explosions on the base columns of WTC7 is moot, because only a certain portion of the energy of the plane impacts would be transferred into ground motion, hence their seismic signals are not representative of the energy of the impacts. What clinches it for me is that the WTC7 pre-collapse signal was larger in peak energy than the collapse of the entire building, so it simply cannot be explained away by a partial collapse inside the building as HowardRoark has attempted before, and this is true whether the event occurred before the penthouse or was concurrent with it. Regardless of the timing, that large peak is a smoking gun.


Read my next explanation to him too.





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