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WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.

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posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


One simple link, try to attack those arguments I put up in that lower link to a post of mine with all that solid evidence :

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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This is the link to the HSDL limited collection with the search terms 'NIST NCSTAR 1-6G ', where you find f.ex. this report 1-6 :


NIST NCSTAR 1-6: Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster: Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of the World Trade Center Towers.

Open Abstract Open Resource [pdf]

"This report covers the characterization of the conditions of the WTC towers before the attacks, their weakening due to the aircraft impacts, the response of the structural systems to the subsequent growth and spread … more(click above link)
Gross, John L.; McAllister, Therese P.
2005-10-26 26,538KB


No seismic data to be found by a browser search, it will not work in these damn PDF pages. Must be done by clicking right and then open a small search _


NIST NCSTAR 1-9: Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster: Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of World Trade Center Building 7: Volume 1

Open Abstract Open Resource [pdf]

"A principal part of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) investigation of the WTC (World Trade Center) disaster was the examination of the WTC 7 collapse. The specific objectives were to: 1.) Det… -more-.
McAllister, Therese P.; Gann, Richard G., 1944-; Averill, Jason D.
2008-10 21,117KB


Read page 90 : and find the full blown balony remarks.
Remember, they proposed some kind of pile-driver impacting effect on still standing construction, and that effect would have pulverized the concrete floors and broke the heavy steel columns and beams (they say).
That's an immense lot of energy, that went into the bedrock beneath WTC 7 and resulted in the first seismic signals, and not the first substantial debris that hits the ground outside WTC 7 many seconds later, as NIST proposed. Just as they proposed for the Twin Towers.
There are heaps of eyewitnesses who remarked that they felt the ground moved seconds before the collapses, even bumped them up. Video camera's on tripods that show distinct jumps in their footage, also seconds before collapses. Thus, NIST is dead wrong that significant seismic signals from a pile driver collapse of such huge steel buildings only start as the first collapsing top part debris reached the ground.


FIRST, print out my seismic evidence seismogram ! Do it, or you will not fully understand the severe implementations of what I am going to prove to you all:

The WTC 7 collapse was a bottom-up collapse, thus, nearly the whole 47 storeys high building fell about 8 floors down in 2.5 seconds while it build up free-fall speed, and then that whole huge 39 storeys pile-driver HIT the bedrock, and immediately send its second pack of (global collapse) seismic signals to the seismograph 34 km away at LDEO in Palisades. Which took 17 secs to arrive there. Since it takes already for hundreds of years for every small earthquake or quarry explosion its FIRST seismic signal packs, 17 secs at 2 km/sec to span the 34 km to Palisades its seismic station. With a +/- 1 sec error margin, says NIST and LDEO. Ballony say I, seismic signals were much more precise clocked in 2001, aided by NIST's its own atomic clocks.

That first bigger pack of seismic signals on that WTC 7 seismogram, were the explosives you hear in David Chandler"s lady interview video I posted, that were exploding. First 2 and then 7 of them.
It can't be anything else, since steel columns don't snap, they deform in a "natural", by office fires induced, collapse. Says NIST in NCSTAR 1-9.

That first seismic signals pack was however already recorded and written on that same seismogram as first arriving pronounced signals for about a 4 secs long period, BEFORE Cianca took his shot.
But that first, 4 secs long, huge peaks period ended already on my graph 3 secs BEFORE the time stamp NIST put up on its Cianca photo (small roof sinking) of 17:20:46 PM, which event (small roof sinking) began to be written on my WTC 7 graph at 17:21:03 PM, and then it took another 3 secs before the second pack of peaks of the global collapse (big roof sinking) started to arrive on the same graph. Thus, just before and within that 8.5 secs retention time after the east penthouse roof began to sink away on that WTC 7 roof. Thus, 8.5 secs before the whole roof started to sink away: the Global collapse start.
BUT, dear Watson, all these proven timestamps for these video recorded events, do not fit my LDEO timed graph !

Understand that the whole WTC 7 seismogram graph writing, is 17 seconds behind/later than, all the WTC 7 events in Manhattan !

BUT all these video recorded events suddenly fit PERFECTLY, when we ACCEPT at last the first publicized timestamp by LDEO, uninfluenced by NIST at that time, 3 days after 9/11, on Friday 9/14/2001 by LDEO its seismic institute.
Their time stamp of the beginning of the WTC 7 seismic event (the green text in my graph), 17:20:33 PM in Manhattan, New York, at the WTC 7 building.


Then suddenly all the 9 recorded explosion sounds in David Chandler's lady interview video I posted do fit exactly in that graph, and since they were recorded and can be heard in that video, it"s solid evidence. You hear them in that video, 2 secs before the whole roof began to sink down.

Then the time of 17:20:50 on that LDEO graph is when the small roof sinking is written on my graph, 17 seconds later than 17:20:33 PM, and NIST has determined that it took then another 8.5 seconds before the big roof started to sink, which they called the start of global collapse. Thus, at 17:20:58.5 PM, smack in the middle of the build-up of the first huge explosion peaks, 2 secs before the big roof started to sink.
Which nearly instantly caused the start of that global collapse at 17:20:58.5 PM.
Then you see the free fall period of 2.5 to 3 secs follow that begin of the global collapse as an indent of relatively low seismic peaks (no resistance over 8 floors! ) between the two packs of seismic peaks, and then the 39 storeys high chunk of WTC 7 hit the bedrock, and started to crumble in on it self caused by the sudden inertia and caused the writing of that second pack of peaks.

Now the clever readers have already understood what this revelation means.
It can only mean one simple thing :

NIST used false video time stamps for their reference video screenshot for all timestamps they put on all their videos and photos, thus also the Cianca photo....!
That Cianca timestamp must be set 13 secs earlier, thus not at 17:20:46, but instead at 17:20:33 PM.
And their time stamp for the impacting of the attack plane its nose cone, touching the facade of the South Tower, which is the standard time stamp they used to correct all other video and photo material, must be 13 seconds set back, too.!

edit on 25/12/12 by LaBTop because: Those damn ' . Ruin all color tags.! Made photos from photo's and videos from video's in last yellow text.
edit on 25/12/12 by LaBTop because: Forgot to link to my seismic evidence seismogram. PRINT IT NOW !



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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Three threads of recent interest (this thread, and these two) where I felt the need to post a few details that in fact also fall under the umbrella of this thread its own title, are also a partly repository for what follows a bit further down :

''Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s''
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and
''2011 Toronto 9/11 Hearings.(Full Length Video)''
www.abovetopsecret.com...





3.3 REFERENCE TIME
Recognizing that the majority of timing information available from the visual material itself was of high relative accuracy, but of unknown and variable absolute accuracy, a timing scheme was adopted in which all of the times for items in the databases were placed on a common relative time scale tied to a single welldefined event. Due to the large number of different views available, the moment when the nose of the second aircraft struck the south face of WTC 2 was chosen to be this time. This event was defined to ----

NIST NCSTAR 15A, WTC Investigation Page 21

---- have occurred at 9:02:54 a.m. based on times for major events included in the earlier Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) report (McAllister 2002) describing the events of September 11, 2001.


That"s the single event all EXIF file time stamps and analogue time stamps were related to, as defined by NIST.

Thus, that 9:02:54 A.M. time stamp must be changed to 9:02:41 A.M.

And now go and see what a lot of other things suddenly get another impact on the whole NIST and 9/11 Commission Reports and fairy tales. When you change all NIST video and photo time stamps to a 13 seconds earlier time.

I trust you all to find the same stunning things as I did, show at last some damn intellect.


Get on the streets, go demonstrate, this should be the last drop in the overloaded bucket of MISTRUST.
edit on 25/12/12 by LaBTop because: Go DEMONSTRATE !



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Again, it's advisable to print out all graphs first from this post, then it's much easier to follow my argumentation.

A bit below you find the original WTC 7 collapse sequence seismogram recorded by Dr. Won-Young Kim c.s. at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (LDEO) seismic institute at Columbia University, Palisades, N.Y. State.
Its start time is 21:20:40 which is New York time 17:20:40 PM on 9/11/2001.

At first LDEO wrote the next day already, that the collapse event began in Manhattan at 17:20:33 PM.
And it is clear, now that we know much more facts from the cameras that recorded the whole WTC 7 collapse, that it was for sure the right time defined as the event-start. The first sign of movement anywhere on or aside that 47 storeys high steel building. At 17:20:33 PM.


files.abovetopsecret.com...







All seismic events on this chart were recorded in Palisades, but 17 seconds later than the original events in Manhattan, which triggered these arriving seismic signals to be written on this original LDEO WTC 7 seismogram chart :



When we accept the atomic clock registered a time stamp at 17:20:33 PM as the collapse start and that was registered by LDEO on 9/11 and written in their first report the day after, and also accepted by FEMA, which institute did the first investigation and 9/11-study and provided a first report on WTC 7, then suddenly all the 9 recorded explosion sounds in David Chandler's Ashley Banfield interview video I posted do fit exactly in that graph, and since they were recorded and can be heard in that video, it"s solid evidence.
You hear them in that video, 2 secs before the whole roof rim line began to sink down.
And also the very deep rumbling you can hear in my other posted video in this thread and the other two I linked to, appearing also, 2 secs before the whole roof rim parapet line started to sink down.

Then the thin time line of 17:20:50 on that LDEO WTC 7 graph is the moment when the small roof sinking is written at LDEO in Palisades, and on my copy of that graph, 17 seconds later than 17:20:33 PM.
NIST has determined that it took then another 8.2 to 8.5 seconds before the big roof rim line started to sink, which they called the start of global collapse.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


Thus, at 17:20:58.5 PM, smack in the middle of the build-up of the first huge explosion peaks in the LDEO seismogram, 2 secs before the big roof started to sink, seen 17 secs earlier in Manhattan. And registered by those two video camera's and their microphones that picked up those explosions.
Which pack of 9 explosions, nearly instantly caused the start of that global collapse at 17:20:58.5 PM.
Then you see up to 17:21:06 PM, the free fall period of 2.5 to 3 secs follow that begin of the global collapse as an indent of relatively low seismic peaks (no resistance over 8 floors! ) between the two packs of seismic peaks, and then the 39 storeys high chunk of WTC 7 hit the bedrock, and started to crumble in on it self caused by the sudden inertia and caused the writing of that second pack of peaks. And that triggered the few seconds gradually slowing down of that huge top part when it met the first resistance of the basements and the bedrock, as can be seen in Femr's graph. Which seconds must be added to the 2.5 secs free fall, covering that indent quite well.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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See the further on following revised WTC 7 seismogram minus these 13 seconds correction on the Cianca photo time stamp of 5:20:46 PM, which must be 5:20:33 PM, or 17:20:33 PM, those three light green lines. But first that so important Cianca photo :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


And see how its light-green first time stamp of NYC 17:20:33 now suddenly perfectly fits all those other, further on on the chard registered seismic signals.
And thus this is a less crowded version of the first part of my extensive seismic graph, this one once made by our colleague "wecomeinpeace", also in 2005.

Follow my next explanation from the second light-green line at EDT 17:20:50 on.
The time that the small roof denting started on top of the main roof of WTC 7, that east penthouse roof that started to topple into the main roof itself :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


And then, after these free fall secs, followed by the increasing resistance secs, the real gravitational collapse was in full blown existence, at last.
As seen in the LDEO seismogram as the second pack of signal peaks, but with an amplitude quite lower than the first registered pack of seismic signals.

Since explosives that are coupled to the steel columns and beams cause a lot more and stronger vibrations in the bedrock where the bottoms of those columns are connected to, than gravitational forces affect that bedrock, we therefore observe the huge difference in peak amplitude between the first pack of peaks caused by explosives, and the second pack of peaks caused by the following planned gravitational collapse part of the whole event.

They took no risks, they over engineered the whole demolition sequence, to be sure that WTC 7 with all its deep secrets went totally down, and was by the way as the first one cleaned away and its steel shipped away to China, India and Russia.

Now the clever readers have already understood what this revelation means.
It can only mean one simple thing :

NIST used a false video time stamp for their ONLY reference video screenshot for all timestamps they put on all their videos and photos, thus also the Cianca photo....which must be corrected and thus set back 13 seconds in time !



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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This is my in 2005 drawn WTC 7 seismic chart with my additions written on it, so you can compare it to the virgin one from LDEO and the above revised one by "wecomeinpeace".





This is the 3 secs revision that Dr won Young Kim was pressed to produce by NIST in January 2005. It is nowhere to be found anymore at public access places.
Also restricted ones will likely not have archived it.
If you know the academic world, this is such enormous abhoric behavior, to burry a once publicly accessible publication, it's extra evidence of extreme corrupt behavior :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


This is the backwards argumenting technique utilized by NIST, showing how they forced Dr Kim to bring some of his seismic times in accordance with their times.
Still many times did not fit at all, which they tried to argue away with their silly argument about "when the falling debris first struck the ground".
I don't even spent more words on such stupendic argumentation. See my contra arguments in the three threads I participated in and gave links to already.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


The below screenshot taken in 2005 by me, shows how they came to their main reference time, where they hung all timestamps in their photo and video database on.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


This is now clear, they were fooled by the editing rooms from the major networks, who perhaps even didn't know themselves that they were fooled by the military in lockstep with several agencies, who have tampered with their "time bugs"system.
That was the main reason why all these military editors were assigned to those editing rooms at the major networks, weeks and even months before 9/11.
They knew they had to keep control of the media, since the chance on a terrible mishap with the "Plan" was a serious possibility, as Flight 93 and 77 proved to have become. The more than 20 by now, north of Citgo eyewitnesses give evidence of a deviance of the prepared flightpath which did not work out well.
Too many serious citizens swore that AA 77 did not fly where the official explanation said it flew. And thus gave evidence of the "Plan".


This is that table from the WTC 7 NIST report, where you can find these incredible idiot long discrepancies between the Fema study and the other studies.
You also can observe how LDEO really tried to come near again to that 5:20:33 p.m. time of first movement on the roof of WTC 7, but failed at it with a 9 seconds difference.

files.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 1 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's highly advisable for all non-believers of the official 9/11 Commission Report and the NIST Reports' investigations into the events on 9/11/2001,
and also very beneficial for this ATS 9/11 Forum its internal PEACE,
to counter any further threads- and posts disturbances, by well known disturbers who never answer 9/11-Conspiracies evidence-loaded posts by LINKING THIS POST as a STANDARD ANSWER to these "simple- or one liner" posts disturbers :


LaBTop : WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.
ANSWER THIS POST BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER THREAD-DISTURBING UNSUBSTANTIATED POSTS.


Remind them also of all posts by me in these threads :


Three threads of recent interest (this thread, and these two) where I felt the need to post a few details that in fact also fall under the umbrella of this thread its own title, are also a partly repository for what follows a bit further down :

Lets Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Arguments
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

2011 Toronto 9/11 Hearings.(Full Length Video)
www.abovetopsecret.com...





As promised, this is a remake of my recent evidence-arguments-list post, with all the visualizations of the evidence now attached, plus a few more evidence cases added at the end :


In all their posts on the last few pages in these above mentioned three threads, all posters (except one shining exception : member "exponent" ), who seem to seek to counter my arguments, have not shown ONCE the courtesy to even try to offer their contra arguments on the solid arguments I provided.
And those that David Chandler and -BoneZ- and others provided in their videos.


1. Not one, to counter David Chandler's WTC North Tower's constant downward acceleration graph, that should have been a down-sloping, then up sloping graph if it had been a true gravitational collapse.

It turned out however, to be a constant down sloping graph, meaning the collapsing top portion of the North Tower with the huge antenna on its roof, encountered on its way down, no RESISTANCE AT ALL from the still standing huge portion of that North Tower situated below the collapse initiation points.

David Chandler graphed the collapse-fall-speed of a specific point on its roof rim that he zoomed-in to maximum visibility as one pixel, all the time until it went out of sight below the collapse initiation point into the developing explosions clouds.

This link starts the VIDEO at 172secs



Go to 172 seconds to see the normal, gravitational acceleration graph of a hydraulic-jacks-demolition that meets resistance from the still standing portion of a building in France.

This video of David Chandler titled "What a Gravity-Driven Demolition Looks Like", shows it the best of all :

www.youtube.com...


This is the Balzac-Vitry demolition its fall acceleration graph, which was a true gravity-driven collapse :




WTC North Tower's top part its acceleration graph then follows, and that one shows a constant increasing acceleration !






The official story is that the North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed due to gravity. This has been critiqued in an analysis by Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti, and in a related analysis by David Chandler (both in the Journal of 9/11 Studies). The Balzac-Vitry demolition was a true gravity-driven collapse. The same analysis that was applied to the World Trade Center is here applied to this known demolition, with contrasting results. This analysis supports the conclusions of both papers referred to above: the North Tower of the World Trade Center was not a natural, gravity-driven collapse.


And this is David Chandler's WTC 7 free fall acceleration collapse graph from his Toronto Hearings lecture :




______________________________

2.
Not one serious argument to counter my WTC 7 Cianca photo-anomaly Seismic WTC 7 thesis, just sidesteps to petty arguments of "no videos with explosion sounds", which I and ANOK however provided in massive amounts, and then those get ignored and it is back to unsubstantial posts again for these believers.

Cianca photo with time stamp, corrected and set by NIST themselves :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


Seismic WTC 7 thesis explanatory animation:
files.abovetopsecret.com...
(640x551):

(890x766) :


No contra-argument against that unexplainable first huge energy event on that above seismogram from WTC 7.
Evidenced by those first huge amplitudes peaks that outclassed the following smaller group of amplitudes peaks, which showed the real beginning of the global collapse of WTC 7.
So WHAT caused that first biggest pack of amplitudes peaks..?
No serious contra arguments came up from them.
In fact, not one. Never ever in all threads and posts related to my seismic graph on this board.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Start reading at that post of mine, and read up further posts there while reading the seismic links too, I provided.
______________________________

3.1.
No addressing of my post with the "Explosion Just Before WTC7 Fell" video.
An ultra low frequency (1-10 Herz) loud "booomm" to be heard clearly in this video, in the right channel speaker, when quality headphones are being used, and then a whole row of explosions in perfect cadence :

" WTC 7: Sound Evidence for Explosions "
Uploaded on July 5, 2010 by DavidChandler911, see his 31 video's.
www.youtube.com...




There is ample evidence, from both witnesses and recordings, of explosions associated with the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7). NIST sidestepped investigating explosions and explosives by setting up an artificially high threshold of interest. They swept aside any testimony or recordings of explosions that would not register 130-140 dB one kilometer away. They established this criterion using RDX (one of the loudest explosives) in a scenario that produced a far higher sound level than other possible uses of explosives to bring down the building. Then they turned around and used sound level as the sole criterion for deciding whether the use of explosives was a credible hypothesis. By this maneuver, they sidestepped investigating the testimony of explosives or possible evidence of explosive residues. This is just one more instance of fraudulent behavior on the part of the NIST investigation of the World Trade Center disaster.


Now would be the time for believers, to offer a video with audio, recorded at 1 km away from a snapping steel column of the size used in the lower floors of WTC 7. Not a bending one, no, a snapping one, failing and shearing off in an instant.
Since one believer in this thread wrote that the sound of such snapping would be a very loud one.
The problem with his remark will be, that its sound profile will have a very high pitch, and what we hear in the David Chandler and Rick Siegel video's are very low pitch sounds, more like an ultra low frequency sound.

""EXPLOSION JUST BEFORE WTC BUILDING 7 FELL"".
Uploaded on September 5, 2010 by ricthuse. He has 2124 video's.
www.youtube.com...




A loud, low-frequency boom can be heard just before the east penthouse of WTC 7 falls.
David Chandler will soon be publishing a video that contains a more in depth analysis of this footage, including audio enhancements of the explosion. YouTube channel = DavidChandler911


And that"s the above first video by DavidChandler911, which was already posted on July 5, 2010.
Which is one of the best convincing video's I have ever seen on the subject of evidence for WTC 7 explosions.
The exact cadence, side by side, of the real explosion sounds to be heard in those video's just a few seconds before the roof of WTC 7 starts sinking down combined with Craig Bartmer saying ''Boom Boom Boom Boom'' and then saying that he ''knows an explosion when he hears one'', is surely grabbing your attention.
Mr. Chandler is an example figure for clear and honest teaching.
That's one man who has for sure earned a Professor Honorate title.
______________________________

3.2.
No addressing of the Rick Siegel tapes and its 70 video-chapters, which can be found in abundance in threads about them, on this same forum. His "911 EYEWITNESS - Help find the Truth!"website and documentary was awarded :


"Best Historical Documentary" 2007 by the New York International Independent Film and Video Festival.

Seven laws of science prove CONTROLLED DEMOLITION at the WTC. The official "pancake collapse" theory is an unrealistic fraud!
Slow motion, freeze frame video and AUDIO ANALYSIS reveal the hidden truth


In the above video of Rick's day-long recording on 9/11 of the events on the Manhattan Peninsula, from a Pier on the other shore of the Hudson River, you can hear several ultra low frequency, low sounding "booomms", and the Blue Star Media Group gave in 2005 a lot of thorough explanations in the same video about the timing and frequencies of them, appearing from about 20 seconds before the collapse in the tape :

911 Eyewitness - Sound analysis shows explosives etc. :

www.youtube.com...


by truebluestar, check his other 32 videos, many of them are short excerpts from the 911Eyewitness video.

911 WTC Collapse - Acoustic Analysis 1
www.youtube.com...



Audio Spectrum Analysis of WTC explosions - Pt 1, the best so far!
www.youtube.com...



by rebelforgod, check his 53 videos.

During the whole recordings you hear all the news via 1010 WINS NYC
news radio their full 9/11 broadcast, which gives NIST's atomic-clocked half and full hour beeps all day long. That way the Rick Siegel videos can be perfectly time-stamped for all major events that day.
And this video is not tampered with by bought and paid official institutes.
Here they are, all 70, in 5 pages :


1. www.911eyewitness.com...
This first page video has the bombs audio analysis screenshots in it :
Numerous Explosions BEFORE COLLAPSE,
NYC Firemen tell of DETONATIONS,
Frame by Frame Analysis,
Close-Up Analysis,
BOMB Audio Signature.
2. www.911eyewitness.com...
3. www.911eyewitness.com...
4. www.911eyewitness.com...
5. www.911eyewitness.com...


www.911eyewitness.com...


The "Zapruder Film" for 9/11/2001

Local news radio coverage was recorded by the on-camera microphone while Rick Siegel videotaped the events of 9/11 from the Hoboken pier. Scientific analysis is presented in an easy to understand manner. The pictures tell the story and this is one story that all New Yorkers, and anyone who was traumatized by the shocking attack on the WTC, must see. In memory of all those who perished, 911 Eyewitness is a voice of the victims that must never be forgotten.

This powerful documentary features eyewitness testimony and scientific analysis of the collapse of the Twin Towers and Seven World Trade. The American Public and American Republic have been betrayed and now it's time to learn the truth and share it with your skeptical friends.

We are actively pursuing the truth regarding the tragedy of September 11th, 2001 and are scouring the world for information, video and or audio tapes, documents, etc. Your donation will greatly assist our ongoing research.
-snip-
"911 Eyewitness from Hoboken" features authentic digital video and audio evidence of explosions that corroborate the testimony of New York City firefighters, police officers and hundreds of other witnesses. This evidence confirms that the historic collapses of three steel framed structures on September 11th were the result of bombs planted in the buildings. Additional evidence and scientific analysis is presented in such a way that the film irrefutably proves 9/11 was an inside job.
-snip-
Learn the truth about what happened at the World Trade Center on 9.11.2001 from eyewitness testimony and scientific analysis. High quality, three-chip digital video reveals the previously unseen reverse angle to televised coverage of the Twin Towers and Seven World Trade collapsing and a lot more.

This is the only known unedited footage that contains a clear, real-time audio track of the many disturbing events that took place during the WTC destruction.


Now see this video too :

''911 Eyewitness-TV136 10 minute program '' posted by truebluestar on May 3, 2012.

www.youtube.com...


It's the latest video from Rick Siegel and Blue Star Media Group. See all 31 of them.
F.ex. the 30 min version from the above video :

www.youtube.com...


And this is BSMG its full online DVD highlights of Rick Siegel's video of his 9/11 all day recording :

''911 Eyewitness - Hoboken "Highlights" 60 min.''
It's in fact 1 hr 20 minutes18 secs long :

www.youtube.com...

______________________________

4.
Not one serious contra argument against this video that I already posted in this thread :
"WHAT A GRAVITY-DRIVEN DEMOLITION LOOKS LIKE".
And its grave implications for the official theories :

www.youtube.com...


Its amazing to see that the whole top part of the North Tower collapses in on itself, while during the few seconds this takes, you see nearly no progression of the collapse front in downward direction.
It crumbles, but it doesn't move by far at the same speed as the roof rim falls.
Then suddenly, the till then still erect part under the collapsing top part starts to blow out on all four facades. In perfect cadence, every few floors rings of white smoke ejections spit outwards, all the way down.

Compare that with the next, number 5 video by our member -BoneZ-, where you see the same thing, but filmed from ground level up, and you hear these explosion sounds running in perfectly cadence with the explosions rings spitting out from one floor level to the next floor level, all the way down, with these peculiar stepping-overs all the time of several floors still undamaged between these 'steppings' :
______________________________

5.
The most important video, "9/11 WTC Detonations Finally Revealed" from -BoneZ- does not get one word to address it, from them. Because at last you can hear clearly the first detonations that forced that top-part of WTC North to collapse in on itself, downwards. And pulverized a great deal of that top-part already.

www.youtube.com...

______________________________

6.
Nothing on the "OBJECT EJECTED by EXPLOSION BEFORE WTC COLLAPSE" video :

www.youtube.com...


nor on this one by David Chandler titled
South Tower: Exploding Projectile :

www.youtube.com...



upload on Feb 12, 2010.
A close-up view of debris being ejected from the South Tower of the World Trade Center as the 30-floor top section falls to the east shows numerous smoking projectiles that look like comets. Several of them can be seen to explode. One such exploding projectile is followed here. It ejects two fragments, both of which undergo secondary explosions. (Note, the rising fragment to the left of the projectile under consideration appears to be a tumbling object that alternates from black to white to invisible. It passes behind one of the fragments described in the video.)


Now it's time to view this video, titled
9/11: South Tower "Collapse" video compilation

www.youtube.com...


Numerous different shots of that collapse. Watch and LISTEN now, after you have seen and heard all the above video's, those rows of spitting-outwards explosion clouds in nearly all of these video camera shots.
At 4:20 you see and HEAR those explosions, just as in the nr 5 video, the -BoneZ- video.
At 6:34 two other shots with sounds of explosions.
At 7:55 in the video are the shots made by the backwards held camera from a fleeing for his life cameraman.
This famous video I posted long ago where it's obvious that neither of the two Twin Towers fell at free fall speeds, but a lot slower. About 22 and 24 seconds for their total collapse times.
It will be advisable for fresh non-believers in the official theories, to stop posting in 9/11 forums those embarrassing "The Towers fell in free fall" posts or even threads with such titles.
Just count the seconds from collapse initiation until that big chunk of external platings hit the ground, that's about 12 seconds. Then still half of the building is firmly erect under the collapse fronts.
______________________________

7. 9/11 Explosion according to NIST: WTC South Tower 9:37 am :

www.youtube.com...



upload on 9 Oct 2010

"The video shot from the WTC plaza captured an intriguing event at 9:37:04 a.m. A jet of air, dust, and a large piece of debris was ejected from a window, 77-355, on the 77th floor at an extremely high velocity. Longer distance videos show that puffs of smoke and or dust appeared simultaneously on the east face from several open windows near the center of the 78th floor and from open windows on the north side of the 79th floor." - Page 50/268 in NIST NCSTAR1-5A Ch 9 Appx C. Their theory of why it happened is on page 55/268, third paragraph:

"It is conceivable that the pressure pulse generated within WTC 2 at 9:37:04 a.m. could have resulted from the sudden collapse of the hanging object, presumed to be a portion of the 83rd floor slab, observed through open 82nd floor windows. While the rapid collapse of a large section of a floor slab would likely generate a substantial pressure pulse, evidence supporting such a conclusion is circumstantial, at best. The actual collapse of the object was not observed, and there is no evidence that it occurred rapidly or even at this time. The appearance of large fires on the 82nd floor shortly after the pressure pulse is an indication that something happened on this floor around this time. On the other hand, most of the direct effects of the pressure pulse were observed on lower floors, particularly floors 77 through 79. The available pathways for transporting the pressure pulse are unknown, but it might have been expected that its largest effects would have been apparent near the floor where it was generated. It must be concluded that, while it is possible that the pressure pulse resulted from a partial collapse of the hanging object seen on the east side of the tower, the evidence is far from conclusive." - NIST NCSTAR 1-5A Ch. 9 Appx. C, p.55/268.

In other words, NIST does not know what caused the explosion.


And when you look up the floor trusses plans in the NIST reports, you'll find that these trusses and their concrete-on-steel-plate floor slabs on that floor and on that side of the building were connected
PERPENDICULAR to that side's external facade.
Which proves without doubt that NIST willingly lied about that by them called :

hanging object, presumed to be a portion of the 83rd floor slab -snip- seen on the east side of the tower

It could NEVER have been a sagging floor slab, at the east side of WTC South Tower.
Most probably, in fact for sure, a sagging aluminum ceiling panels rim strip, but NEVER a sagging floor. And the NIST end editors must have noticed the same thing as I did. And still they lied about it being a floor slab instead of what it really was, a ceiling rim sagging down in front of a few windows..! Just to let it fit in their sagging trusses theory...!

There are many obvious lies spread through the Final NIST Reports, and always at the really important subjects. That would indicate or prove demolition, if they would have honestly reported and concluded.

F.ex. the whole seismic reports lies subject. Try to find that Jan 31, 2006 report by Dr. Won Young Kim from LDEO who was hired by NIST to revise his first LDEO report from 9/14/2001. Yep, they tried to press him to let his first time stamps of events in New York now fit their main network video's time stamps.
Which I just proved to be false......and all off for about 7 to 17 seconds in page 3 of this thread.
My proof based on Dr Kim's and LDEO's time stamps on their first seismogram from the WTC 7 collapse, and the NIST time stamped photo, shot by Nicholas Cianca near WTC 7 when it started to collapse, evidenced by the sinking of the east penthouse on its 47th floor's roof, into that roof.
Both were atomic clocked timestamps, which are extremely accurate, and both clocked by NIST which was then in 2001, not yet complacent to what the Bush White House wanted to come out of their Final 2008 NIST Reports.
And they are still 9 seconds separated from each other...

And every academically schooled 9/11 researcher will immediately understand that such a HUGE discrepancy between two timestamps measured by the same NIST Institute atomic clocks, is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
Which means that one of them must be false.

Biggest candidate : the NIST video time stamps. They muddled around with them for more than 3 years, before they ordered an external party to write that Final WTC 7 Collapse DRAFT report.....
That way they can always later deny it or deny to being charged with the true responsibility.....And then they "disappeared" that crucial to their new 5 seconds revision of all their video and photo time stamps, Jan 31, 2006 re-visioned seismic report, written by DR Won Young Kim.
How convenient.....

But we all know by now, that those NIST Final Reports end editors only had one task....Hide AT ALL COSTS any evidence of planned demolitions on 9/11...!

Try to locate their names, and addresses, organize a citizens arrest and let them explain....Who done it, and why.
______________________________

8.
The FREE-FALL ACCELERATION of WTC Building 7, David Chandler, AE911truth.org :

www.youtube.com...


The 2.5 seconds period of free fall acceleration speed, which is evidence of 8 floors worth of no resistance to that free fall of the top 39 floors of WTC 7, by around hundred huge thick steel beams and massive steel columns. And 8 floors worth of concrete floor slabs spread on steel beddings.

Ask yourself if you persist to believe in the official "magical" explanation of this by NIST in its final report on WTC 7 (REF. 1a), or that you still posses a healthy portion of logic and gut feelings.
______________________________

9.
Twenty seven minutes of oral evidence about eye and ear witnesses in the WTC's that heard and felt EXPLOSIONS ( Post by ANOK top page 10 )
Title : 9/11/01: Eyewitness Accounts Of Huge Explosions
www.youtube.com...


______________________________

10.
(R.I.P.) Barry Jennings his eyewitness explanation of a huge explosion inside WTC 7 that threw him and Hess back up one floor and blew a portion of the stairwell below them at the 5th, 6th and seventh floor totally away, while ''both buildings were still standing''.
Halfway his video you hear him very fast saying those exact 5 words :

www.youtube.com...


______________________________


FINAL CONCLUSION :
Full swing use of distraction techniques, but no serious refusals at all.



I already tried to let the believers get used to the idea that main stream networks video material was tampered with, mainly I think, to edit unwelcome sounds out.

And still they keep focusing on "no explosives sounds for WTC 7", while I just showed them the video from BoneZ (WTC North explosions to be clearly heard) and from David Chandler's excerpts from videos, where we can hear also the ULF boooms just before WTC 7's collapse.
And ANOK posted a few more videos loaded with explosive sounds witnesses at the WTC's.

Again, full swing distraction techniques, and full dodging from all clear evidence for the use of explosives.

By the way, there used to be some believers here, that always tried to implant the idea that there was no OFFICIAL theory regarding WTC 1, 2 and 7 its collapses.
Well, the US Congress agreed that the White House appointed the NIST to start their officially endorsed reports.
That means their final reports were OFFICIALLY ENDORSED reports.

Which turned out to have been heavily redacted by the NIST end-editors.
Use your right for a citizen arrest.
Lock that small group up, waterboard them and then you got the names of the REAL TERRORISTS who ordered them to redact the fine and thorough basic investigative work on the causes for the collapses by the truly patriotic NIST lower staff members.
Crack open the compartmented secrecy that way, and at last we will unfold the truth, peel by peel.

=============================================

REFERENCES

1. World Trade Center Disaster Study Publications :
www.nist.gov...
The first top two are the ones of interest for us :
a. Final Reports from the NIST World Trade Center Investigation (September 2005 and November 2008)
b. Draft Reports from the NIST World Trade Center Investigation - and public comments (April 2005 and August 2008)

2. 9/11: Stabilized WTC2 Explosion/Pressure Change (NIST FOIA - WNYW Dub1 35) :
www.youtube.com...


3. South Tower: Exploding Projectile by David Chandler :
www.youtube.com...

upload on Feb 12, 2010.
A close-up view of debris being ejected from the South Tower of the World Trade Center as the 30-floor top section falls to the east shows numerous smoking projectiles that look like comets. Several of them can be seen to explode. One such exploding projectile is followed here. It ejects two fragments, both of which undergo secondary explosions. (Note, the rising fragment to the left of the projectile under consideration appears to be a tumbling object that alternates from black to white to invisible. It passes behind one of the fragments described in the video.)


4. WTC SOUTH TOWER: 1) SMOKING GUNS; 2) SMOKING GUNS (FOLLOW-UP); 3) EXPLODING PROJECTILE
www.youtube.com...

upload on March19, 2010.
DAVID CHANDLER - AE911TRUTH.ORG
YouTube channel: DavidChandler911

--1) SOUTH TOWER: SMOKING GUNS
This video narrates a collection of diverse phenomena in the debris cloud of the South Tower that point to explosive demolition. Particularly notable is one projectile (which I have not seen discussed previously) that is shooting to the east, then stops, midair, then turns a sharp corner and shoots straight down trailing white smoke. White smoke is characteristic of aluminum oxide which is a byproduct of the thermite reaction.

--2) SOUTH TOWER: SMOKING GUNS (FOLLOW-UP)
After finding the projectile that turns a sharp corner while trailing white smoke I looked for it in other videos and found it in several. The clearest is from a camera with a very similar perspective to the first, but in this video the trail can be followed to the bottom of the collapse. Here I explore the significance of this find.

--3) SOUTH TOWER: EXPLODING PROJECTILE
A close-up view of debris being ejected from the South Tower of the World Trade Center as the 30-floor top section falls to the east shows numerous smoking projectiles that look like comets. Several of them can be seen to explode. One such exploding projectile is followed here. It ejects two fragments, both of which undergo secondary explosions. (Note, the rising fragment to the left of the projectile under consideration appears to be a tumbling object that alternates from black to white to invisible. It passes behind one of the fragments described in the video.)


5. WTC SMOKING GUN PROOF OF EXPLOSIVE DEMOLITION CHARGES by john sosman (view his 75 video's) :
www.youtube.com...
This is by far the best evidence for planted explosives I ever saw :




2 sep 2012
(This description added 12/04/2012. Original description removed. My comments in the thread below refer to the original)
Here is an explanation of this video. (December 4, 2012) :

A. The opening scene (as well as the part at the end) comes from one of the archival NIST FOIA 9/11 videos. It can also be seen at
www.youtube.com...
It shows an ejection of air, or air, smoke, dust, and debris. The thing to notice happens quickly. Look for the black object being ejected. This object has been the source of some confusion. It has been theorized that it is a piece of clothing or even a body. It is neither.

B. The center of the video shows some scenes from videos made by CDI, Inc., of known, acknowledged demolitions- the first of an apartment building, and the second of a bridge. In the clips of the demolition of the apartment building, numerous black objects remarkably similar in both appearance and behavior to the black object seen at the beginning (and end) of this video can be seen at the forefront of the demolition "squibs".
In the bridge demolition video, it can be seen that the demolition charges are wrapped in some black material, which goes flying when the explosive is triggered. If A is the black object seen in the beginning, and B represents the black objects seen in the apartment demolition, and C represents the flying black pieces which wrap the explosive charges on the bridge, it is not at all difficult to see that, in all likelihood, A = B = C. CDI, Inc. was hired for the 9/11 cleanup job. It should be noted that CDI is a demolition company, not a debris cleanup company, although cleanup is part of their own demolition jobs.

If you can't understand what this video shows, watch it again until you do, and THEN comment, if you wish. Hostile and purposely ignorant comments will probably be removed. Thoughtful responses will be kept. Thank you for watching.

john sosman 2 weeks ago :
BTW, thanks to YouTube for hosting this video, especially since it seems to be one of the controversial ones, although I can't see why.
It's so obvious. Some viewers don't like this video, and try to negate it.
They have no way to disprove what I am saying. So out come the irrelevancies, the ad hominem, all the usual expected stuff. I challenge naysayers to come up with a better explanation for the flying object
No one has, so far.
Believe me, I would be glad to be proven wrong.
-snip-
Audio is not relevant for the purposes of this proof. It is visual.
Audio proof of many of the explosions is very difficult to pinpoint. Far less was recorded than was actually happening. The reason for this is quite simple: the dense curtain wall of the falling pulverized concrete and other materials muffled even loud explosions almost completely. It's hard to hear through a heavy fog, even harder to hear through one or two hundred feet of concrete "cloud", which was making its own noise.
--snip--
who planted the bombs?
I don't know. There are some obvious suspects. That is why we need a new, real investigation of 9/11.
and how did they get them in there?
Probably most of the charges were planted inside the elevator shaft area, which could have been done without detection. Listen to the chief electrical design engineer of the World Trade center, Richard Hummen:
www.youtube.com...



6. 9/11 Early ejection of building materials: Freeze Frame evidence of controlled demolition :
www.youtube.com...


upload on Feb 16, 2011.
9/11 conspiracy debunkers will have you believe that the collapses started dead center of the impact zones, and that ejections are just wind or air rushing out due to pressure.

9/11 South Tower Collapse - center-left falls first: Freeze Frame
Collapse begins on the left side, and below the impact zone.
Early ejections of building materials.
FLIR cameras pointed out that more fires were on the 30-50th floors. Remember, only a FLIR camera can distinguish between professional grade HTA (thermetic) fires and the cooler jet kerosene fires.


7. This is the 5 hrs long video of the 2011 Toronto Hearings, where you can find the 23.5 minutes lecture by David Chandler, between the 3hrs:04min and the 3hrs:27min:38secs times, called :
''David Chandler. WTC 7: A Refutation of the Official Account'' :
www.youtube.com...


edit on 1/1/13 by LaBTop because: Changed the page link to this post its link, thus THEY will click and land in this huge post !
edit on 1/1/13 by LaBTop because: Forgot one tiny first [ at ex. 10, Barry Jennings, RIP. Now his heroic video is embed.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 06:42 AM
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I'm sorry maybe it's just me.
But does anyone really read run on postings?
You took the entire page I can't imagine the number of words used.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by samkent
I'm sorry maybe it's just me.
But does anyone really read run on postings?
You took the entire page I can't imagine the number of words used.


O no an entire page of words how scary! How did you make it through the nist report of one page is to much?



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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And all of you official 9/11 believers still do not want to admit that a planned PUBLIC demolition is totally different from a planned HIDDEN demolition.
They remove for a public one, nearly all obstacles for a fast gravitational collapse that is going to proceed after their charges are set off. The outer facade with windows and panels, the inner drywalls, brick walls and concrete walls. The elevator cores, the concrete floors in the planned "kink" areas, all that will be removed to be sure that their public demo-job goes as planned.

In the WTC's hidden demo's, all inside and outside structures in the floors under the impacted floors were still present, and thus acted as effective sound mufflers for HE cutter charges going off in the core columns regions.
Drywall dividers, office equipment, light brick walls, doors, anything else.
And HE cutter charges exploding is not the big boooommm you all seem to think, it's more like a somewhat louder whip crack. A cracking sound, that's easily muffled by demo-blankets, and eventually water. Especially water.

The reason why I suspect TB's have been used in conjunction with HE cutter charges : you see those rings of explosive smoke clouds spit out from all windows on one floor, all around the building's four facades, at about every third floor proceeding further down, when the global collapses started.
And they were starting UNDER the lowest impact-hole floor levels.
See the above video's in my huge EVIDENCE for demolition post.

And you also didn't notice, that since those explosions happened 80 to 90 floors up in the sky, it took about 1.1 seconds (333 m/s) for their accompanying explosive sounds to reach the camera's at the ground level straight under it.
And thus they needed explosives with a low frequency sound level at ground level to mimic collapse sounds, 1 second later or at the same time to DROWN those repetitive boom boom boom boom sounds from high up (see video from -BoneZ- in my above huge post), to fool the camera microphones, and the ears of all people standing around the towers, to let them believe those first ground level explosives sounds were the real onset of the faked gravitational collapses. That way, the ground explosion sounds overwhelmed the following top floors explosive sounds, and most people would automatically thought that those were the first sounds of a then further progressing collapse.
All other cutter charges sounds will have drowned in the ongoing collapse sounds.
Thus, it were only the first 2 seconds that made a difference, in that small time span they had to prepare low frequency sounds that would overwhelm the sharp cracks of the HE cutter charges exploding.

A fine example is that famous BBC camera man running for his life, away from the collapsing South Tower, with his camera in his hand, but pointing backwards to the tower collapsing.
That's the same footage through which I proved to a whole bunch of my non-believer co-conspiracy friends, that they were totally mistaken when they kept repeating texts from others, that said it fell at free-fall speed (Bullocks) and fell in less than 10 seconds (Bullocks too), it took in fact about 22 seconds to fall completely to ground level, all simply to see and count for yourself in that fleeing BBC cameraman video.


I however was always left with one nagging question :

Why were basement explosions needed at the start of a circa 1 hour deployment to proceed to a faked gravitational collapse?
Why were William Rodriguez and his 22 other ear and eyewitnesses firmly holding to their witnessed pre-impact huge basement explosions?

I still don't realize which logical reason they had when they planned such risky explosions, just a few seconds before the planes impacted (It happened at BOTH Tower plane impacts).
Perhaps they had to be sure that those huge steel columns at the deepest basements were severed, and that they had time to CHECK that they really were, before the Towers were demolished from the top down.

Those 'spires' we saw coming down in slow motion at the end of one global collapse perhaps had to have a loose connection to the bedrock, during that top down collapse. So that those lowest cuts could act as hinges when they exploded the last cutter charges at the two lowest mechanical floors to cut those last center columns, those free standing pieces of 'spires', which then at last easily slipped down along the still erect part of the same columns.
Because they needed free space beside all of them, so they could slide down elegantly perpendicular to the ground, as we saw those spires do.

First primary cutter charges exploding and their white hot plasma streams cutting those huge, thick columns, then secondary displacement charges just above the cuts, to knock and bent them a tiny bit sideways, so they can slip down when those same columns were cut inside the 2 lowest mechanical floors.

In all the demolition theories there's one seemingly huge problem.
How did they hide all these diagonally cut columns ends caused by standard cut demolition cutter charges, for their own clean-up crews?

There are a few indications found over the years what their modus operandus could have been :

1. It was not allowed to bring camera's to the clean-up job, for anybody in those crews. Only contracted photographers were allowed in, and they had a tight security squad watching their every move.

See the statements and YouTube videos from that former ground zero photographer with the German surname that fled to Buenos Aires, Argentina, because he suddenly got a wife-murder charge filed against him, after he went public that his stack of held back and copied and backed-up clean-up photo's showed some interesting evidence that 9/11 was not what it seemed to be.
His last appearance a few weeks ago was in a video, shot in B.A. Argentina, in front of a fountain, together with his new Argentinian wife, where he explained that his extradition (back to the USA) case in Argentina was still looked upon by the Argentinian judges, who found the evidence send to them by the US DoJ was a bit thin. While the US judge triomphantically says in the video that they were sure he murdered his wife and they had sufficient evidence for that.
The Argentinian judge seemed to think otherwise.

This is the exact way they once tried to frame me too, sending phony "evidence" to the prosecutor in the country I then resided, asking to extradite me to their country. That prosecutor told friends of mine later that he never saw a more mysterious conundrum than that so called "evidence for wrongdoing" they send him on me. Nothing happened, by the way. (It's years ago, don't get excited about it)
But I knew from that time on how they operate, and I certainly don't like their dirty tricks.

2. Many statements from former first responders surfaced, that in all the days that they were allowed back in, they had to endure crazy long interrogations after their work was done late evening or even at night, by agencies asking them lots of weird questions. Then there came a day that they no longer were allowed in, and they got thanked for their patriotic assistance in the first weeks after 9/11. They were told that professionals were now taking over. That was around the time that the rubble heap reached levels where eventual cut columns could be unearthed.
It was the same time that the NYPD and the FDNY personnel still frantically was searching for the bodies of their lost comrades, and suddenly were held back from the whole site. They were furious. And protested furiously.

3. Many columns were cut diagonally all over the clean up area in full daylight, and that could be one of the reasons why so many photographers from behind the perimeter fences have shot pictures from those, and would-be demo-debunkers could easily weaken any arguments for diagonally placed column cutter charges, by showing those abundantly available pictures and even video's from welders that were cutting columns with acetylene/oxygen burners also diagonally.

However. In my country I have watched demolition crews taking buildings apart, and they did not cut steel columns that way. They attached a steel cable halter (noose?) around the column far above the cut, stretched it, and then cut the column horizontally.
I asked them why not do it diagonally and let it slip down by its own weight. They said they had no death wishes, that was far too dangerous. Then I asked why not do it as I saw it done in New York, without saying where.

Their answer seemed to me a quite logical one :
"We have to pay for the acetylene and oxygen gas cylinders, since we take the jobs on a fixed end-price, so tell me why we would make much longer cuts, when a horizontal cut is the most economical and safest one, in terms of spend gas and time spend on cutting?
And it is dangerous to cut diagonally, since the column can torsion at the last cut instead of sliding down, and we can get hot molten steel all over us, or even get the whole column over us if it topples to the wrong side.
Our method with the cable and the horizontal cut is the safest, since the cable is under slight tension from the crane, at an angle away from us welders, and it opens up a gap for us that way, the further we cut. And thus the molten iron will be blown away from the cut we are making, thus preventing that both column ends will fuse together again, which would surely happen when you use a diagonal cut without a cable noose. And again, why make a two times longer cut, spending two times more gas, even when you also use a cable and noose? "

They cut a "U-form" horizontal cut, first around three sides of the column and heat up the last remains solid steel part until it is red glowing, then the crane operator sets the cable under a 75 degree angle and put some more tension on the cable, so the column top end will bend towards the cable and opens up quite a gap at that already cut "U" cut, then the cable is set at a 90 degree angle and then the welder cuts that last horizontal cut. That way, the just cut part will not snap backward towards the welder, but upwards under the tension of the cable that is now stretched under a bigger angle (90 degrees) than when making that first "U" cut around the column.
He explained that when you let the cable stretch under f.ex. a 75 degrees angle all the time, the cut end of the column will jump backwards when the last piece is cut away, or depending where your cable noose is placed (too near to the cut), it will lift the lower part of the just cut column, and the top part will hinge back on top of you.

So, these photo's are very suspicious in my books :

Photo's with diagonally cut column stumps.

With dark gray slack traces dripping off from their outer sides.
If a welder cuts such a diagonal cut, his torch gas pressure will blow the melted steel inside that column for the most part.
When a HE charge goes off on both sides of such a thick steel column, the molten steel will meet in the middle and bounce back and thus drip down the outer sides.

4. The Loisaux family company, CDI Inc., the best known demolition company in the USA, was contracted to clean up ground zero. Their income depends for a great part on government jobs, and for sure on government permits. The government could make their firm's existence very difficult when they would not listen very careful to instructions given to them for that 9/11 clean up job.
For example to not take pieces away to their firm to test for explosives.
And for those diagonal cuts, so standard for demo jobs, they were given the same explanation as to all others was given : that's the way our welders had to cut all still erect columns (and be so clever to ask no further questions, or else...)

5. My number 5. WTC SMOKING GUN PROOF OF EXPLOSIVE DEMOLITION CHARGES by john sosman. In the above huge post.
This is by far the best evidence for planted explosives I ever saw.
You see the long thin black muffler blanket spitting out of a WTC window, inside the explosive dust cloud that bursts out of that _ With a speed you can easily count yourself, that never can be caused by 'compressed air from a pancaking floor segment' as some seem to think.
And you can see the exact same black long blankets got spitted out from several windows in an official demolition job, and then he put up both videos beside each other. If you then can't see for yourself that that is an exact same type of demo muffler blanket that normally gets wrapped several times around a pillar or column to be cut with a cutter charge, then I give up on you as an intelligent human being.
edit on 12/1/13 by LaBTop because: Changed whip lash to whip crack.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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I still see the effect of a slow burn method, like a torch. So I suppose this is one of these pictures meant for the debunker heads-up. If it was a cutter charge cut, the molten metal plus the copper lining from the cutter plasma beam would have been smeared out in a thin film on the inside of that column, and some small drips on the outside. The rest would have been spit out all over the place, but not slowly dripping down on the outside, what I see happened.

I also see a perfect smooth cut part on the left top foreground. That's probably a diamond saw cut, the last one before they lifted the top part off.

Thus, again my question, why cut a longer diagonal cut, when you can much faster and economically much more profitable, torch-cut a horizontal cut ?

Diagonal cut Support Column at WTC

That's interesting. This metal smith/torch cutter in fact comes to the same conclusion as I did.
The comments section is very interesting also. With a lot of added professional comments.


This allows the beam to collapse inward. This is VERY typical in controlled demo. You can find this on the web.
Although I am sure cutting torches were used on the pile, a burning bar would have been a lot faster. The column in the picture raised huge doubts with me when i first seen it. The angle cut was a dead give away. Why increase the length of the cut by going this way? Yet another topic was the slag on the outside. When cutting a tube or pipe the slag will form on the inside.
This picture was brought up here before. I would love to see a high definition close up, and if possible pictures leading up to that photo.
Another reason a diagonal cut is used in demo is because the high uniform heat of the cutter charge, and the speed in which it slices. If it was wrapped on a 90 degree the weight it was supporting would want to fuse the column or beam back together if the timing of the charges was off thus allowing uncontrolled demo.....Make sense?


We call his "burning bar" here, a thermic lance. It's a system of threaded on both ends, pipes, filled with a thermic mixture, which pipes you can screw together while the pipe burns up at the end at higher than 4,000 degrees Celsius, which thermic hot pipe you then stick into concrete, steel, or a huge safe...it cuts those materials like it would be butter.

And the Prof. Jones basher, I'll have to read all his links.

I was quite upset at the time they bashed Pons and Fleischman for their cold fusion research, which was in my professional opinion worth a lot of further research.
Which is still done to this day with some remarkable results, but still no economically effective result. But their principle turns out to be true and could be duplicated all over the world by many young and old scientists.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:19 PM
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-BoneZ-, are all the intelligent and professional members gone from this specific forum?
In the past years, posts like this would result in 100 pages long debates between conspiracy proponents.
Nowadays, only a few JREFérs turn up...with the ever predictable opposition posts.

And it gets a lousy 10 flags.... while I deliver on a plate, for every 9/11 conspiracy proponent free to use, one huge post with about all they need to silence every 9/11 conspiracy would-be debunker.
Has this forum deteriorated into a Popular Mechanics clone ? Don't they have the guts or the IQ to use it and be able to defend it ?
Just PM me, and I will jump in every thread where this above huge post is used by any of you, readers. To assist in any skirmish with any 9/11 Truth debunker.

WTC Angle Cut Columns during cleanup


We cut a section of the wall and we counted 14 floors pressed into 8 feet


That's 14 floors compacted into 2 meter and 44 centimeters.... That's 1 floor pressed into 17.4 cm.

Then at 1:33 / 1:57 he points at 6 angled torch cuts on top of the tripled Vierendeel exterior wall trusses. Observe the nearly total lack of slag on the outside and the inside of those torch-cut columns.
I have to say that those were much thinner than the one huge thick column stump from the other photo.



I also have to say that the remark of the video uploader, "debunking911" is quite premature :


This video of ground zero proves that cleanup crews routinely cut columns at angles. This refutes the conspiracy industry story that the angle cuts on columns must be made by controlled demolition.


If you view those cuts, I see only one with a somewhat sharp angle, all the others have small angles. At the end of that shot, you even see another section, the higher one to the right of the zoomed-in one, which has all nearly horizontal cuts at the top.
The quality of this video is btw abominable.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 05:54 AM
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Here you have those two photo's zoomed to the maximum allowed ATS format, so you can view more details :

Men Setting Cutter Charges on 'H' shaped steel column:


WTC column cut :


I hereby retract my diamond-saw cut remark in my fore-last post.
edit on 13/1/13 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)
edit on 13/1/13 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 02:31 PM
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In so far as the pro/contra arguments the overall lack of interset in the 911 section says it all.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 


It is not that there is lack of interest...the lack of decent rebuttals from the pro OS side has turned 911 into a subject which cannot have a decent debate...the so called truther side continues to provide info that can be discussed and the OS side keeps only saying the same thing....it could only be fires that brought down for the first time steel structures which suffered a symmetrical global collapse and frankly most people are tired of the OS just spouting one possibility and calling people nutters for thinking otherwise....but i thank labtop for keeping up the good work of putting information out there for the masses to digest.

But IMHO it makes no difference as it has shown the masses will just believe what they are told by the media....the experiment continues and TPTB know now exactly that they can get the masses to believe whatever they want them to believe.

The people are in worse shape now as we accept drone attacks...we now accept that it is ok to invade foreign lands on false premises...the only thing you can say is Labtop's replies might be to long in the tooth....So you would prefer short ill informed responses to satisfy your short burst replies....Maybe you might like to actually do some work and show exactly where labtop has faltered....But that might be just a little to in depth for you as you might actually have to research and read .....rather than wait 4mins to reply to the opening statements.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by samkent
 


It is not that there is lack of interest...the lack of decent rebuttals from the pro OS side has turned 911 into a subject which cannot have a decent debate...the so called truther side continues to provide info that can be discussed and the OS side keeps only saying the same thing....it could only be fires that brought down for the first time steel structures which suffered a symmetrical global collapse and frankly most people are tired of the OS just spouting one possibility and calling people nutters for thinking otherwise....but i thank labtop for keeping up the good work of putting information out there for the masses to digest.

But IMHO it makes no difference as it has shown the masses will just believe what they are told by the media....the experiment continues and TPTB know now exactly that they can get the masses to believe whatever they want them to believe.

The people are in worse shape now as we accept drone attacks...we now accept that it is ok to invade foreign lands on false premises...the only thing you can say is Labtop's replies might be to long in the tooth....So you would prefer short ill informed responses to satisfy your short burst replies....Maybe you might like to actually do some work and show exactly where labtop has faltered....But that might be just a little to in depth for you as you might actually have to research and read .....rather than wait 4mins to reply to the opening statements.





I would have to agree. Also I think the fact that it is so very easy to get banned, that many people simply won't risk commenting.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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Interesting thread from an OP who's really good at research, writing, and presentation. Star for that alone. I like reading and seeing new theories, not because I think it happened any other way than the Saudi's being angry about there being U.S. bases inside their holy land and deciding to take the group's declaration of war seriously, but because it's interesting how much evidence and theory-proving data that can be found to prove every single one of the hundreds of conspiracy guesses. It is again a mind game of large proportion, like the JFK assassination, and everyone who has a new idea can find evidence to back it up. That's what makes it interesting for me.
edit on 13-1-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-1-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-1-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by plube
 




the only thing you can say is Labtop's replies might be to long in the tooth....So you would prefer short ill informed responses to satisfy your short burst replies....

And Richard Gage gives 3 conferences with the same result. No one talks about it the next day.

This is all psudo proof from non experts hiding behind screen names. It means little in the cyber world and nothing in the real world.



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by plube
 




the only thing you can say is Labtop's replies might be to long in the tooth....So you would prefer short ill informed responses to satisfy your short burst replies....

And Richard Gage gives 3 conferences with the same result. No one talks about it the next day.

This is all psudo proof from non experts hiding behind screen names. It means little in the cyber world and nothing in the real world.


It means nothing in the real world only because many people in that world are in such deep denial that they would ignore even a press conference held by a hundred NSA agents who confessed to having helped in the cover-up of 9/11. FACTS mean nothing to them because there is too much for them to lose by admitting the status of this evidence as facts. It's as simple as that. That's why forums like ATS can publish tons and tons of damning evidence contradicting the official story of 9/11 (they have already done so) and it won't make an iota of difference to the dumbed-down sheeple who get their daily dose of reality from Faux News and CNN.



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by micpsi
 





It means nothing in the real world only because many people in that world are in such deep denial that they would ignore even a press conference held by a hundred NSA agents who confessed to having helped in the cover-up of 9/11. FACTS mean nothing to them because there is too much for them to lose by admitting the status of this evidence as facts. It's as simple as that. That's why forums like ATS can publish tons and tons of damning evidence contradicting the official story of 9/11 (they have already done so) and it won't make an iota of difference to the dumbed-down sheeple who get their daily dose of reality from Faux News and CNN.

Can you think of one conspiracy that has been exposed on ATS that has changed world view on that subject?
Big Foot? Nope
JFK? Nope
Moon landings? Nope
911? Nope
Chemtrails? Nope
2012? Nope
NWO? Nope
Aliens? Nope
Free Energy? Nope
FEMA Death Camps? Nope
WW3? Nope
Annunaki? Nope
Nibiru? Nope
Masonic Overloards? Nope

I could go on.

Where you see the masses being controlled by what they see in the media I see a few being controlled by what they read on the internet.
The difference is that the media has cross checks on what is disseminated. Other outlets would love to show up one who broadcasts incorrect information. The internet has ZERO cross checking. Any Joe Schmoe can post any truth or lies with total imunity. They hide behind screen names and offshore IP addresses.
If you chose to believe these keyboard warriors that's your choice. But remember you are not living in the real world. The world that pays your bills. The world that gives you choices.





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