WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.

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posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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You can't find anything seismic in the final NIST reports easily, it's just not there anymore:


Ref. 1 : It is a sad commentary that the words “9/11 Commission” are not found once throughout both NIST reports [NCSTAR 1-5 and NCSTAR 1-5A]. And if a word search is done on the Final Report of the 9/11 Commission for the words “Lamont” or “LDEO” or “8:46:26”, the answer is the same: nothing. This appalling lack of attention to detail is inexcusable and can be viewed by some as highly sinister.

NIST suffers a lack of credibility for its issuance of the false 8:46:30 “impact” time for AA Flt 11. It is an unreal time and is not an impact. What is needed from NIST are: (1) the names of the four television stations whose data was used, (2) the actual times of impact from these four stations, and (3) the procedures used by each station in the regular synchronization process to UTC.

and

Regarding UAL Flt 175, a question remains: What are the main specifics that the Commission based its time of 9:03:11on, those that go to the heart of their Note 130? 
The Commission based it on something, as one doesn’t just come up with such a precise number out of thin air. “FAA radar data and air traffic control software logic” needs to be elaborated upon. Something is behind this time, and if this something is credible, this would confirm once and for all the large time-gap between seismic and impact, and would be another conclusive demand for a new investigation. Nevertheless, until the specifics become known, the 9:03:11 remains the official 9/11 Commission time of impact, and this by itself demands a new investigation.

Regarding AA Flt 11, there still remains a huge 11 - 14 second time-differential between the precision times of seismic & impact.  This time-gap, along with the many corroborating WTC1 basement eyewitnesses and fire department personnel, demands a new investigation now, and this can not be emphasized or stressed any stronger.


These two last excerpts talk about the 9/11 Commission timing for UAL Flight 175, the second impact of a plane.
It's stated collapse time of 9:03:11 in their 9/11 Commission Report, if it is based on radar data, must in that case be damn precise, since radar is measured with the speed of light.
It should be totally comparable, in precision, with the atomic clocked times used by NIST etc., the UTC times.

It's 9/11 Commission second impact time differs however from the LDEO, FEMA, and NIST same event times, as much as 12 to 17 seconds ..!
And those are all huge US institutions that should not deliver such unbelievable sloppy results with such huge discrepancies.

Pay very good attention to what is stated above by Craig T. Furlong & Gordon Ross.

When you are willing to accept that a huge US institute such as NIST, is obviously trying over all these years to hide the more and more logical conclusion from all the above, and my additional facts posted from 2005 on till now, that there was a time lag of between 10 and more seconds between real and aired times, in ALL major Networks video material, then suddenly my WTC 7 seismogram with my additional text in it, must be studied again to see how the above could fit in this new timeline REALITY for the WTC 7 collapse again.




posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Only just started going through it as I've had my head in another thread on here for the past few days.

After only a couple of hours looking into the links and videos you've provided, I find this idea more plausible than what was given in the official reports.
As I said earlier in the thread.
I don't find the official theory plausible at all......so up to now I'm really enjoying your thread and thanks for sharing !



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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That's at last some positive feedback, so my thoughts are not totally lost on the English audience (or Italian?)

See me as the local librarian, conserving lots of snippets of wisdom for later or immediate use. You may use all my text at will, my only goal is bringing the historical truth out, so we can learn from its consequences.

When you hear the early news report in this video, there's one thing only which comes directly to my mind.
Some irresponsible idiots had at least 3 military TB's stored in the Murrah building in OKC, and by accident one of these hellhounds was triggered and went OFF. The other two were safe, and did not detonate at the first blast. And were recovered and the military was asked to come and safeguard them, since there were military signs on them.

Afterwards these same idiotic cowards went out on a limb to find a scapegoat. McVeigh and Nichols.

Title : OKC Bombs WTC Bombs
www.youtube.com...



At 9:22 till 10:00 min in this video, you'll see those telling white smoke clouds at the bottom of the Towers, followed by dark smoke. One of the footprints of a Thermobaric explosion, first white, then a dark cloud. As well as an Ultra Low Frequency sonic Boombooommm.

FBI Inspector Ted Gunderson (retired), a friend of Michael Riconosciuto (one of the inventors of TB's) who worked with him on several cases, when Michael was ex-CIA, explains in this video from its 3:30 min on, while he was at a 1997 Global Sciences lecture, more about directional Thermobaric bombs. You can't shield for such a shattering blast if you're in its directional path.
It pulverizes everything in its immediate path.

Gunderson explains at 07:22 that a TB first releases a white chemical cloud, and milliseconds later a dark chemical cloud. Its first sound print is an explosion followed instantly by a second , more powerful explosion.

The later TB's their gaseous first and second stage mixtures of gas and finely dispersed other powdered chemicals, are ignited by very sophisticated ignition devices which originate from the already very far developed micro neutron bombs their ultra compact ignition devices.
A piezoelectric device triggered by the pressure of the explosion of a first small chemical powders dispersion charge (RDX) then puts an high static-electric charge in the rapidly cooling cloud ( caused by its ultra rapid expansion), which is the reason for the peculiar crackling sound, that survivors at the outer periphery of a TB explosion cloud can tell about afterwards.

Ask the Russians about that spine chilling sound, or their survivors from Chechnya.
Or the two office workers in the Murray building in Oklahoma City who survived that TB on April 19, 1995.
And told about that preliminary crackling sound too. I posted about them and linked to their statements. A woman and a man.
edit on 8/12/12 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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To show those of my readers who still can't believe it :
Their whole life is ruled by propaganda, persuasion and deception :

Orwell Rolls in his Grave (Full 3 Hr Documentary : Extended Directors Cut. The original video is 1Hr 24 minutes) :
www.youtube.com...



An awful lot of Information for those of us who like to know more about that pesky media censorship, consolidation and propaganda. Before, on and after 9/11/2001.

It's a gift for GoodOlDave and others who understand that it works, but perhaps also want to know how to use and fine tune it.
And for those of us who want to be warned in advance if such techniques are used upon them, by all the main media networks, advertisers, political parties, military propaganda arms etc, etc, and perhaps also by some of our nice or cruel opponents at ATS..?

REFERENCES
Books online :
Walter Lippmann (Public Opinion) - Full Book (30 pages)
xroads.virginia.edu...

Chapter VII. Stereotypes As Defense -
xroads.virginia.edu...

Chapter VIII. Blind Spots And Their Value -
xroads.virginia.edu...

Adorno and Horkheimer - The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception (1944)
The predictions in this essay are stunningly accurate.(24 pages)

Edward Bernays - Propaganda (1928)
www.scribd.com...
This above original link is deleted, but a lot more of related propaganda books can be found at its Scribd page :

1. Edward Bernays - Propaganda (Political Analysis) .
www.scribd.com...
2. Edward Bernays - Propaganda and Mass Persuasion (519 pages).
www.scribd.com...

Propaganda, Persuasion & Deception, Over 1,120 Selected Quotations for the Ideological Skeptic. (124 pages)
www.scribd.com...

Books in shops :

When Corporations Rule the World - by David C. Korten (One of the best reads ever)
News: The Politics of Illusion - by W. Lance Bennett (One of the best media dissections)
Manufacturing Consent - by Noam Chomsky
edit on 8/12/12 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:30 AM
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Also on the Richter scale thing.

Okc bombing with a equivalent of 2.5 tons of TNT registered 3+ magnitude at 6 miles

wtc collapses registered 2.3 magnitude locally.

what ever did it. did it quietly it seems



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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I have seen a photo from the recovered military bombs. They were dark green cylindrical, about 1.20 meter high and 0.80 meter diameter. That's damn big for a TB..!
I don't have a link.....you should understand that by now.
The one exploded was a directional one. Thus not a 360° one. And such a directional one delivered much more energy to the reinforced columns of the Murrah building than an omni-directional one would serve.
Buildings on the other side of the street were only lightly damaged compared to the devastation in the Murrah building.

Note that a 10-fold increase in wave amplitude indicates a 100-fold increase in energy released.
The Murrah bomb was one big bomb, the Towers were bombed with much smaller ones, but a whole row of them, to let it look as a gravitational collapse.
The short period seismic surface waves reflect the interaction between the ground and the building foundation, and the towers were much higher hit by a plane first then collapsed from high up. That muffled a lot of the waves in their steel.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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NWowned, I contemplated a long time on your post on page 1, where you asked to make it somewhat clearer for the casual reader.

Open the following WTC 7 seismic diagram made by me, and print it out :
files.abovetopsecret.com...




Lay it in front of you, while you read my next words :

Since you have come so far in this thread reading all its material, you also have read my last post's yellow text.
I have always wondered why NIST did not seriously tried to change the Cianca timestamp.
Like they tried and did/succeeded with all the seismic material in their possession after 4 years.

But they added seconds, while in fact, to fit their LDEO based WTC 7 graph, they had to subtract seconds, to fit the registered packs of signals by LDEO in Palisades,N.Y.State, 34 kilometer further north than New York.
By adding another 5 seconds in 2006, they even moved the timestamp of that Cianca photo penthouse sinking, to the 17:20:52 position on the graph, we must then ad the 17 seconds travel time of that signal from Manhattan to Palisades, so its arrival time on that WTC 7 graph became the 17:21:09 position (up there on my graph), an even more ridiculous position for that signal.

One reason could be that they knew many people had already saved my work, and since that photo came from Cianca's camera with hundreds more on it, all already corrected by them, they had no way to change only that photo its timestamp, while not doing the same for all the others with the crashes, collapses etc on them, shot by Cianca.
And of course I did choose precisely that photo, because they had used exactly Cianca's camera as their example in their sub-report about their method of photo timings correction. (see my earlier post with link).

Another reason could be that perhaps they were ordered to leave it like that. Otherwise it could become clear that all real-time video material filmed in Manhattan and New York was sent to a few editing rooms (we know that the CNN room had military editors in it) and were all reviewed first, before broadcasted US and worldwide.
Which would implement 9/11 planning, foreknowledge and intent to deceive the whole world.
And start wars based on such false-flag operations. Are you getting a tad bit upset yet?

So WHY did they, so to see, change all these photo/video timestamps 17 seconds FORWARD..?
That Cianca timestamp should have been around EDT 17:20:30 on my graph, a whopping 14 to 17 seconds earlier, to fit neatly on that WTC 7 seismogram..!
Since the start of total WTC 7 collapse in New York was at 17:20:47

(see my note to the right from my 20:46 vertical black bottom line, beside "NIST time").

The row of lightblue EDT timestamps on the bottom of the WTC 7 seismogram were not affected by their tampering with all photo's and video's.
LDEO was lucky for us, so eager to get them out, that all Twin Tower based ones were already posted on the web the next day, and the WTC 7 one on Friday next, three days later...
There was no time anymore to change those seismic timestamps, and those bottom EDT times are written based on atomic clocks. No chance in hell to tamper with that.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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When you saw that WTC 7 seismogram for the first time, your mind immediately came to one obvious and seemingly (in your mind) logical conclusion :

The first sign of seismic activity is for sure exactly where that stupid LaBTop drew that first, dark-blue vertical line at the bottom center of his graph, where he added his bolded black text : (17: )20:46 Cianca photo time stamped = Actual time New York WTC 7 penthouse roof dented, so, he must have made some grave mistake. Nothing to see further, so, no need to get deeper into it, let me get to the next thread or post to read. Move on, -what a douche-bag....does he underestimate my intelligence? How on earth can someone be so stupid.

The problem with that attitude is, that when you read some more on the subject, you suddenly understand that I am right, and that it takes 17 seconds for that first seismic signal to reach the seismograph in Palisades, NY State, Columbia University, and let its needle there start to swing.

That red vertical bottom line with this text of mine :
(17: )21:03 LDEO Seismograph needle starts to write Cianca event should logically spoken be drawn at that first blue vertical bottom line position at (17: )20:46.
BUT WE CAN'T, since it took 17 seconds for that seismic signal to travel through N.Y.State's upper earth crust...!

And THERE they made their first huge error, and since I waited long enough to let them write all their pretty reports and put them up, they can't correct their smoking gun error anymore..!


So they choose to silence the subject into oblivion, hoping it will not reach avalanche proportions.
However you, yeah you, can change that, since in fact their ERROR is so easy to see, after you understand their photo correction methods.
When the numbers of fed-up citizens reach the threshold where the corrupt media can't stop it from rolling-on anymore, than you will see for the first time in your life, REAL CHANGE.
edit on 9/12/12 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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So Houston, we have a problem.

I also realize very well that the most logical explanation would be to move both vertical blue and red bottom lines drawn by me there, about 17 seconds to the LEFT.
Which means that we have to change ALL Cianca photos timestamps 17 seconds BACK.

And then of course also ALL timestamps from ALL video and photo material (huge numbers) that was corrected by NIST.

Anybody see THAT ever happen?

And that's why there is such a THUNDERING SILENCE from the side of NIST, LDEO etc over this ONE SUBJECT, the Cianca timestamp by NIST.
They have no solution, which would NOT immediately made clear to all of us, that tampering with video material has taken place on 9/11 and far afterwards. On an immense, huge scale.
It probably still goes on, every day of our life.

I would be VERY surprised if anybody would prove me wrong on this......

And again, I am even more surprised, all these years already, that the whole 9/11 Truth community did not fall over me from day one that I posted this ONE SURE smoking gun.
What is wrong with non-believers, are they so massively conditioned by their media, that they stop protesting on the streets? Is there something in their food or drinking water that makes them so docile, while your fathers and mothers were used to protesting on the streets in massive numbers, against the Vietnam war, Human Rights for colored people and lots more.
I'm not wrong for sure, but what the heck is wrong with OUR people? Can't you get off your chairs and screens anymore....Realize what they are doing to you and your children, and get red hot MAD.

NOTE
You must not search for a solution in the original camera-time setting of Nicholas Cianca's photo camera, since it was originally 102 seconds out of synchronization with real-time, on 9/11/2001, says NIST.
See my earlier link to that NIST photo-timestamps correction methods sub-report with the Cianca photo's mentioned and shown in there.
www.abovetopsecret.com... (Report)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.911scholars.org...
edit on 9/12/12 by LaBTop because: US to OUR



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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How nice, such a serene thread, all for myself. Thank you so much, 9/11 truth movement and their adversaries.


I'm getting far too old.
I never found and saw this new investigative masterpiece on the OKC bombing. While it was uploaded already on May 10, 2011. It's also one of the best on the 1995 OKC bombing, I ever saw. Very well crafted and performed.

Realize please that there are many startling similarities with what happened with the WTC complex on 9/11/2001. And with what the witnesses told to reporters that 9/11 day, and later on.

This documentary is full of startling facts never made public by the establishment news media about the incident at the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma on April 19, 1995 at 09:02 A.M.

NWO - Murder in the Heartland, Oklahoma City Conspiracy of 1995. (1,5 hrs, then 3 interviews with a Grand Juror of the OKC bombing court case.)
www.youtube.com...





0:19:30 / 1:30:00 Pay attention to the story of a rescuer in OKC who felt bullets from an exploding ATF munition box passing by his ears while helping out in the rubble. ABC reporters were taping his story later, sent it to their editing rooms in Washington. It was never aired..!
Misfits in these rooms always cover other misfits' deeds.

Btw, just before that, at 0:18:00 you can hear that everybody in OKC who heard the bombing all know that TWO bombs went off. By two sounds, sights of two clouds or felt two shocks.
And you hear OKC witnesses telling their convincing stories.

And the bombing seismograms from the Geological Center in Norman also showed two distinct energy pulses.
During the rubble cleaning, when they blew up the remains on May 23, 1995, the seismogram of that, also showed two distinct energy pulses. Thus they explained the bomb seismogram away as being caused by two crust layers with different deflecting and retention times.
But Dr Brown from the Geology Department there kept to his story, that never in the whole seismic history of OKC these two crust layers showed up. You decide who's lying. (see my link to his words in my earlier post)
An ANFO bomb (ammonium nitrate fuel oil, its fuel is diesel) has two signatures, huge clouds of nitrate gas and lots of fire. Jim Ferguson, first responder said to the reporter at 0:19 that he never smelled gas nor saw flames. You can't go to an ANFO scene in the first two hours without a gas mask.

0:25 The BATF office was on the 9th floor, just above the "cone", blasted/shaped out of the Murrah building, at its left front side. It was destroyed plus its whole roof section. But all ATF agents wearing their raid jackets, were outside, since they had received a bomb thread the week before and now again. Some of them had been told to stay away from office that day. They did not warn any others of this thread.....They stood and waited on a nearby parking lot....

0:28 Were illegally stored explosives accidentally set off by the ANFO bomb concussion?
3500 pounds of pressure (psi, pounds per square inch) will set off detonation cord or C4.
The Ryder truck and its later bomb crater was more to the west of the 9 stories high "cone", scooped out from the eastern part of the Murrah building. It's pressure will have been around 30 pounds of pressure inside that "cone", and certainly never can have reached 3500 pounds of pressure inside that 9th floor ATF office, to be able to set off any C4 or other HE's stored there.

0:41 OKC Water board meeting in a building across the street about 100 feet west of the Murrah building which was taped. There's a "pop" on that tape to be heard, then 4.2 seconds later an explosion that triggered the Auto Gain Control of that tape recorder for about 10 seconds long. Thus it must have been two or more explosions directly after each other, to force that AGC cutting the sound level for so long.
Another tape recorder recorded in a lawyers office exactly the same "pop" and 4.2 seconds later that 10 seconds long explosion sound that also triggered his recorder's AGC.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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0:44 Dr Charles Mankin is the head of the Oklahoma Geological Center at Norman, 16 miles south of OKC. The 9:02 A.M seismogram on 19 April was studied also by his colleague Dr. Ray Brown. The one I have a statement posted here, who did not agree with Dr. Mankin that there was suddenly a dual layer in the underground of OKC that separated one seismic signal into two. Which is indeed preposterous.
Much more likely would be that the second seismogram from the 23 May blasting of the OKC remains was tampered with. Lots of reporters at that blast, so that would be the best candidate for a good conspiracy. All those years not one time was there a dual layer effect found in and around OKC for blasting jobs, but only for the Murrah bombing there suddenly pops one up........pure unadulterated MAGIC..!

I have a few ideas how I would alter that seismogram from outside the room where the seismograph is situated, without the seismologist behind the seismograph being able to find my interference with pure science. And a perfect dual peak would appear on that graph, just as the perpetrators would like to see, while the second one would be false. Or both would be false but overall identical to the expectations of the real OKC bombing perpetrators.

0:59 The former CIA agent "Ray" who was recruited by and worked with 20 years long CIA operative Michael Riconosciuto explains how a TB cloud can surround a pillar and crush it to powder after energizing and ignition of the few stages.
You can also see a vague drawing of a TB. The center pin is an RDX explosive that opens up the container which is already pre-weakened around the middle part. The formed gas gets expelled and then the piezoelectric device in the bottom pops a lid up with a wire attached a few feet in the air while rolling that wire out behind it which keeps the connection to the PE device in the bottom, then a second charge "mists" the aluminum silicate into the gaseous, quickly cooling cloud that is already expanding enormously, then the PE device charges that mixture with its very high voltage static electric load and energizes that mixture with a very peculiar pattern, then the last small charge ignites the whole mix, and then a blast front shatters anything near the cloud and especially in the cloud by its 20,000 meter/second explosion front. There have been many models developed , with many different gases and powders to charge the clouds. They can also be directed any side they want, in very thin discus shaped forms. These will shatter steel columns. There's not many materials that can withstand their enormous brisant shattering power.
Thick solid rock comes close. And still its surface will be cracked as if weathered for a thousand years. It looks as if hit by intermittent frost and dew periods while water is creeping in its cracks.
"Ray" says that the nr 1 explosion was the Anfo, nr 2 was the TB cloud-setup explosion and nr 3 was the final TB detonation. And the last two have a few seconds delay in between, to let the cloud expand as far as necessary.

1:00:00 to 1:10:22 The Michael Riconosciuto interview. His former CIA colleague "Ray" said that Michael is one of the twelve most intelligent men on earth. The inventor of the neutron bomb who once talked with Michael, thought the same. Sam Cohen.
This interview with him is quite longer than the one I already posted. And more detailed.
Michael says that one of his TB's could easily had caused the damage we saw in OKC. He was surprised that so "little" damage was done.....Probably since the Murrah building was a seismic zone 1 building.
He also says that parts of his sophisticated micro detonation device which originally was developed for the nuclear research facilities, were found in OKC and analyzed in a San Francisco forensic blast research laboratory. There were for safety reasons tiny tags implanted in those micro trigger devices, to be able to find out where eventual blast particles came from, after a detonation of an atomic bomb, for which these triggers were in principle meant for.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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After that a lecture by General (ret.) Benton Partin until 1:10 . That man earned our highest respect. A true patriot. I believe he's dead. Damn it, all the good ones die first.

1:10 until 1:25 Definition of the three possible theories which can be extracted from all the information gathered in the first part of this thorough investigation.
Theory 1. ANFO triggered ATF material. Must be eliminated, listen to the grounds for it. Mostly the psi pressure of the ANFO at the 9th floor would have bleeded off to about 30 psi, while HE needs 3500 psi to ignite under pressure.
Theory 2. ANFO a diversion for the use of one or more TB's inside which were triggered by an unmarked helicopter seen circling above the building. Riconosciuto said his TB would have been too strong to use more. He forgot to tell that his work was stolen in 1989, so the "think-tanks" had years to prepare much smaller versions. That's why this is my favorite one. Also because of the multi-circular roof damage pattern, indicating more TB's.
Theory 3. Partin's one, ANFO distraction, prepped columns which were blasted. He said buckets full of C4 beside columns would have done it too.Too much prep work in my opinion. Too much risk for attention. And too local damage patterns afterwards, and easy to see patterns. And lots of C4 traces.

Then the brother of Nichols who was arrested on false charges. The 3000 letters send to the grandmother of two children in the daycare who died, all these letters were opened and none of the money was ever found in it, stolen. What kind of Law Enforcement people live such life and do such things? (1:27)

1:29 - 1:30 Conclusions.
1. ANFO bomb not solely responsible for OKC bombing.
2. A Cover-up is still in progress, after 18 years.

1:32: to 1:56 Three Hoppy Heidelberg interviews, he was a member of the jury in the OKC bombing process, he got less information in the jury room than he got out of the newspapers.
He was not allowed by the prosecutor to directly interview witnesses, while he has the right to as a jury member. They even wrote him that he could get 6 month per case that he tried to ask the same question again. Then they dismissed him as a Grand Juror.

The end of this video.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by LaBTop
Are you really insinuating that?
Did you read my work at ALL?


On the contrary, I've gone back and read and reread your prior posts, and not ONE addresses the point that I brought up to begin with. In case it escaped you, here it is again:

"Unless you want to go into the really outer space fringe theories of hologram planes and armies of sinister secret agents planted everywhere, the only irrefutable evidence we have is that the buildings stood reliably for around 30 years until the planes flew into them, and both buildings began collapsing at the point of impact of the planes. Everything else is connjecture, be it from NIST or those damned fool conspiracy web sites."


So regardless of whether it was fire induced structural damage, controlled demolitions, micro nukes, or heat rays from Martian war machines, whatever it was that happened, happened at the location where the planes impacted the buildings because that is where the first domino began to fall. Namely, here, in this video of the plane impact area of WTC 1. Please tell me in with a straight face you believe this video is showing a nuclear weapon going off-



You can evade addressing the point as much as you want, but in the end it is still your responsibility to justify how your conspiracy claims explains the real world events we're seeing here, not how things *might* have happened or how they *could* have happened. You have to know this.
edit on 10-12-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Dave, your answers are in my posts at page 6 and 7 of this thread, go study my material posted there :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cross linking to that thread is beneficial to this thread's subjects too.
Title : ""Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s""

Gravitational collapses ALL inherit one very telling effect:
Their gravitational graphs for one chosen constant visible point, are a down sloping graph, then, when the pile driver (top of WTC North) smashes in the first floor that gave way, under it, the graph smooth-off, and then, when the full mass of that pile driver makes contact with that first next floor under it, the graph suddenly sharply goes in an up sloping direction on that graph, since the mass from the underlying still erect building slows that pile driver portion (top of WTC) considerably down.

He showed that effect, for a known and filmed extensively, true gravitational collapse demolition by means of hydraulic removal of all columns on one middle floor in that multiple floors building. No HE explosives used there in France.

The result from David Chandlers beautiful work, his WTC North Tower effort to find also a true gravitational graph for its top section movements, was a straight down sloping resulting graph, all the way that the point he choose on its top floor, traveled downwards till it went out of sight of the camera's. There was NO DELAY at all to be measured...... It was a demolition where all resistance was effectively removed, and not by the hand of some god.
Au contraire, by most heinous subjects.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


What?!

The 'collapse' doesn't match the Gravitational Graph?!

Ergo, it wasn't a Gravity Collapse... Hmm never heard that before.

But I'm not surprised by this myself.

So that makes 3 things in this one thread I never heard before:

1. Thermobaric Bombs
2. Shifty Seismic Clocking
3. Gravitational Graph Discrepancy

People keep on saying: "The 'collapse' started exactly where the planes went in..."

Hello?

Over on another thread we were examining the lousy hotel CCTV clip very very carefully. People seem to be very keen on examining certain video clips very very carefully. But only certain ones. Mostly the ones that come to no definite conclusion.

The September Clues guys made a video. In this video there is a portion dealing with what they think is a specific anomaly with the right wing gash in the North Tower. That being that it "appears" to have been made up to like 6 seconds AFTER the impact of the wing etc. They go into great detail about this strange visual anomaly.

The reasoning of course implying that the right wing gash was not made by the wing of a 767-200 aircraft but in another way that does not involve a wing at all.

But someone could come along see, and say like: "Well, no one has ever crashed a 767 into a giant office building like that before so how do we know what it would really look like?"

Right?

So it's an anomaly that needs reporting on but it's not so solid maybe and someone, anyone, could say, "Ya well who knows, that whole plane into building deliberately thing is a new phenomenon now isn't it..."

September Clues, independent of me, notes this strange anomaly with the right wing gash in the North Tower.

I come along, independent of September Clues, I examine the Naudet 'Fireman's Video' very very closely and even as I show in my simple avatar pic Gif animation, it shows (the Naudet Video), it conclusively shows that NO 767-200 crashed in there. Period.

It's hard courtroom quality evidence not soft questionable evidence like the SC noted anomaly but IT BACKS UP THEIR POSITION that the right wing gash high in the North Tower was not made by the wing of a plane but up to 6 seconds later through an entirely different means.

And NOW, now we have talk of the 'collapse' not matching up with the Gravitational Graph...

What a shock that is...


Cheers



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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When are you going to provide a link to this remark of yours :
""Over on another thread"".
How can I relate your above story to something I can't check, without a link?

See my edit !
You can do that so :Over on another thread (click the quote box, then you can see how I typed it. And what to do.

edit on 10/12/12 by LaBTop because: See, I can still edit my post, 119 minutes left, so you should still have a chance to edit your post too. Only 30 minutes less.
edit on 10/12/12 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


It's not necessary to link to it for the gist of it is in my paragraph.

I'm not linking to anything specific just noting the whole thread as a careful examination of a far away black and white blurry indistinct video that basically shows nothing conclusive.

There often is examination of various videos like this on ATS, very very careful examination. Three of which are the one from the Citgo station and the nearby hotel video, and that 'gate cam' one of the white streak, all from the Pentagon scene.

These videos don't really show anything but entire threads are made of them!

I'm just using it as contrast etc.

Something that shows something more clearly and conclusively, not brought up too much.

As for adding links...

This thread started off with comparing pro and con on tower destruction, pretty soon you're adding in seismic reports and Oklahoma material etc.

As I mentioned before, I think it would be a good idea to just make a Thermobaric Bombs thread.

Like "Thermobaric Bombs, History, Effects, Potential Use at WTC?"

And just lay out this alternative and see if it fits with known evidence. Note up the black smoke to white smoke, try and tie it to seismic, are there any signatures to look for in the rubble etc., you know, for those people who have not heard about it as a demolition possibility.

As for the seismic material you present, to be honest, it's still too confusing and not simplified enough. Not only are people docile as you note, the whole world it seems is also dumbed down. If you can't put your evidence and theory on a t-shirt or have it fit on a 4x6 inch smart phone screen and make it understandable then you have no hope or chance of any progress on solving any of this.

I understand and applaud your "Historical Record" ideal but even as you note with Oklahoma it has been 18 years... still ongoing. JFK is like what? 50 years. Do you think we can afford to spend 50 years screwing around with 9/11? 18 years? Perhaps soon something more horrific than 9/11 might happen and then no one will investigate anything. We'll be too busy killing squirrels to eat. 11 plus years is getting to be too long.

Your historical record thing should be kept to its own thread. A second line of attack should be specific threads about single items not polluted with cross threads, ideas and links that have people reading all over oblivion for just a few key points that all should be posted together and made succinctly.

If I can't figure out what you're saying and what evidence you are providing en masse right now how do you think anyone in the future is even going to bother to try? Especially if the global situation collapses? And everyone is in survival mode?

There's no time IMO for amassing data no one will read or digest. You got to break it down and simplify it up. Pick 3 or 4 smoking gun things and do a single thread each on it and don't bleed other ideas or topics into it. Keep them short, sharp and clean. And make your case directly, within the thread and not popping all around.

You could be right about everything you say and could possibly prove it but your mode of presentation could keep that all from happening. Take this to heart.

Just try the one TB thread, inform people simply, make a solid case.

I find with your presentation that it's like trying to get a cup of water from Niagara Falls, when what would be really good is one little sink with one little faucet.

The link to my argument is not necessary, the explanation and description of what we all know and have experienced from being in here will suffice.


Cheers



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by NWOwned
 


Well, you clearly meant avatar instead of paragraphs.

I just starred that "little" outburst of yours, a refreshing sound in long years of bickering with hardheaded "one-liner" Obstinates.

I'll see what I can do, in the mean time, read this last post of mine :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
it will give you another push in the right direction.
Then read the ones before it, if interested.
You see, I am one of the few here, who enjoys wide outbursts, especially when they contain life long experience what drips out from between the written lines.

Cheers, and buckle up, things will get better soon.
edit on 10/12/12 by LaBTop because: Typo's



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by LaBTop
 


Good man good, it's nice to be heard and understood, especially in here, it is rare.


I had already been looking through that thread.

So what you're saying is, you got a time stamp from the penthouse linked accurately to the seismic chart and the big blip on the seismic chart coincides with the big low bang heard on the video just prior to the penthouse going down?

Is that right?

See here is where a TB thread would come in handy, to cover why it's a low bang and muffled, is that natural for TBs or was the audio edited?

Many claim all the videos are fake and I suspect I'll be dealing with that myself somewhat in the future, but it's a no brainer that audio could possibly be edited, it's the first easiest thing to be altering if deception is the order of the day.

What concrete evidence do you have that CNN had military editors on the scene to filter the media feeds?

I have not heard about that.

You mean people on tv are just reading scripts and reporting on what's basically fed to them?




Cheers



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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I'm surprised there's not been more people participating in this thread because I think there's some really good points being made.
Unless they're reading the links....which there are plenty.

I'm in and out at the moment as I'm busy on something else right now.
Nevertheless ......one of the more decent threads on this topic.





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