Where does the idea that Freemasons worship Lucifer come from??

reply to post by Sigismundus

Some things that you talk about are under close scrutiny since they do not have a historical background, things and stories with Sophia. With sophia falling, with Sophia losing part of her self,(the fallen sophia) the upper and lower Sophia and with Lucifer, these stories are invented very recently, it is taken from the real Sophia, a saint of the Christian church, They took her and made stories with her, mixed some more crap and they got a fable out of it, now they sell it as religion on a stick, as the Gnostic, tho not all Gnostic stuff is fabrication.

If you look at the historical backround of this stuff you will find that it does not go very far into the past, and that these stories are no where to be found in ancient cultures, just like the Kabalah, they took it from the Babylonians and modified it, they added arch angels to it and other stuff, never mind Sophia stories made by them of how the depict things. These stories do not exist into ancient past, other stories may exist in similar version under other characters with the dual goat fish. (Satan) It's probaly where they got the idea for the stories and then made things up.

reply to post by pepsi78

I also want to point out in addition to my post that you have yet to address the York Rite.

reply to post by pepsi78

So how is a Satanic goat related to Freemasonry.

reply to post by KSigMason


What do you mean, the knights templars.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by KSigMason

 

What do you mean, the knights templars.

you do know that historically, it isn't possible to connect Freemasonry with the Knights Templar right? We have tried for ages to do it. We have several degrees dedicated to them, and even some side orders that dress like them. I wore a knights uniform in the 28th degree when I was the Warden of the North.

Do you have the missing proof?

What do you mean, the knights templars.

you do know that historically, it isn't possible to connect Freemasonry with the Knights Templar right? We have tried for ages to do it. We have several degrees dedicated to them, and even some side orders that dress like them. I wore a knights uniform in the 28th degree when I was the Warden of the North.

So what, it's part of the masonic dogma, I don't see how it's not connected.
It's like saying that you practice satanic rituals but that there is no historical proof of a connection to Satan, but you practice the ritual.

reply to post by pepsi78


OK, what official rituals include Templars and please explain the significance of the Templars in each degree.

I don't expect you to do this and I also don't expect you to understand how Freemasonry works. We use stories that are acted out as plays to teach a moral lesson. In a few of these lessons we dress as and use Templar regalia in said degree. We are not claiming to be Templars, or even claiming to be LIKE Templars, only using their likeness and history to tell a story. We dress as Monks for one degree, does that make all monks Masons as well? Or Make all masons Monks? I see this as me trying to tall you all about how to be a good vegan. I would come across as incredibly un-informed since I only know that you cannot eat anything that tastes good. Unless you enjoy cardboard and tofu. (sorry to keep picking on you about the vegan thing, but you have given very little ammo)

reply to post by network dude


It is included in rituals, symbols, plus masons take pride in the knights templar associating with them.

reply to post by pepsi78


None of which is any grounds for a historical connection. Allegory does not equal historical fact.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

If it's part of the official masonic body, I don't see how it is not connected.

Originally posted by pepsi78
If it's part of the official masonic body, I don't see how it is not connected.

A group paying homage to another group does not cause them to be related. It does not matter whether you see a connection or not, history proves otherwise.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

It is not that I do not see a connection, but that there is a connection by rituals and symbols.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I do not see a connection, but that there is a connection by rituals and symbols.

Use of ritual and symbols are circumstantial and do not translate into a historic relation. Your logic is severely flawed as any group that took up a symbol or image of a previous group would, in your eyes, somehow become a lineal descendant.

reply to post by chief_counsellor


the high level freemasons know that the God they worship is Satan. To be a Shapeshifter you have to be 100% sold out to Satan. But that also makes you completely posessed.

Use of ritual and symbols are circumstantial and do not translate into a historic relation.

It's what I would call adaption, to adopt something from someone else, making it yours. It's masonic.

Your logic is severely flawed as any group that took up a symbol or image of a previous group would, in your eyes, somehow become a lineal descendant.

No, these things are included in masonic rituals and symbols.

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's what I would call adaption, to adopt something from someone else, making it yours. It's masonic.

Adaption and adoption are two very different things. Make up your mind what one you are utilizing.

No, these things are included in masonic rituals and symbols.

Irrelevant. You arguement is that the Masons have a historic tie with the Knights Templar. This is not historically provable and your contention rests on circumstance, not evidence.

Adoption is the word, I am sorry for spelling it wrong.

Irrelevant. You arguement is that the Masons have a historic tie with the Knights Templar. This is not historically provable and your contention rests on circumstance, not evidence.

I don't see how it's irelevant since it's part of masonry ritualistic and symbolic.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I don't see how it's irelevant since it's part of masonry ritualistic and symbolic.

It is irrelevant because it does not indicate a tie to the historic Knights Templar.

reply to post by pepsi78


what about the monks? In the 28th degree we have a priest, a few knights, and a common serf. So in your eyes, because we have these representations in our ritual, they become masonic? I think this road has been traveled before. Bring historical proof that can be verified by unbiased sources, or don't bring anything. Opinions are much like, well, you know. Everyone has one,and most of them stink. Pictures, or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Agape
reply to post by chief_counsellor

 

the high level freemasons know that the God they worship is Satan. To be a Shapeshifter you have to be 100% sold out to Satan. But that also makes you completely posessed.

I am sorry, this was too good to just let it go.

I have to admit, I was a bit taken aback when I first learned how to shapeshift. But when I found that I could become the spitting image of Rosie O'Donnal at will, well, I just loved it. Now anytime I get pissed at someone and I want to act like a real beyotch, I just give them what for while looking and sounding like Rosie. It really gets the point across. It's a gift like no other.

It is all very cultish to me regardless, but I ran into this picture on the internet and thought to myself, I wonder if any of these guys went on to become Freemasons? I am sure this is some sort of fraternity I would think?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b8689c182c7.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is a link to a larger picture so in case someone wants to read the inscription and date.

Larger picture

It all looks very demonic but quite innocent coupled with the nice robes!