With Robots, computers other forms of automation, knowledge sharing on the internet and othe multimedia the turth is we do not need us all to support us all. This means as time passes we will need less and less people to work to maintain our society. We can work less and share the work so we are all participating, We can set up a system to allow us to retire earlier and let the young carry the work load till they reach the much lower retirement age, or lastly we can just let some people live in poverty, unemployed, hungry pitiful lives.

You almost have to move torward socialism when you automate civilization to a point where it takes very little human effort to keep us going. I think in part that is why we are struggling now. We just don't need the labor of all of us to sustain our high tech civilization.

Now you may hate socialism but before you start falming the idea I ask you to instead provide alternative solutions to the problem our high tech society brings us in the form of not needing us all to labor to work to sustain humanity. What can we do if we dont move away from capitalism in a world were our hard labor is just not needed?

Watch Star Trek - The Next Generation. All your questions answered.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358
Watch Star Trek - The Next Generation. All your questions answered.

P

Ooow......I'm a trekkie too.

Fantastic show and it paints a wonderful picture of how life could be lived when humanity uses technology for the betterment of everybody.

At some point we need to realize that going backwards might be the only way to go forwards.
Tech has made us almost obsolete.
It has detached us from everything we were meant to do and be.
No wonder many search for a life's purpose and find none.
We are letting our minds and bodies rot and have become too lazy to do anything to fix it.
Go back 100-200 years and do things the way they did? Many would have you committed for suggesting it.
Might, however, be our only salvation.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
At some point we need to realize that going backwards might be the only way to go forwards.
Tech has made us almost obsolete.
It has detached us from everything we were meant to do and be.
No wonder many search for a life's purpose and find none.
We are letting our minds and bodies rot and have become too lazy to do anything to fix it.
Go back 100-200 years and do things the way they did? Many would have you committed for suggesting it.
Might, however, be our only salvation.

Sorry, and I will try to express this in a polite way, but I don't understand.
What was so much better 100 or 200 years ago? Really, I won't start with bad hygene, low life expectancy and low standards of living - but I can't think of anything better then than now.

There were no better solutions for the search of life's purpose.

Backwards into oblivion is not the better way.

We have to find an emulsion of the best ideas available - unrestricted to any boundaries, I agree with that, if I got your direction correctly. Yet, I have no doubt that life today is in nearly every possible way better for nearly everyone in the first-world-countries than it was more than 50 years ago.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by AccessDenied
At some point we need to realize that going backwards might be the only way to go forwards.
Tech has made us almost obsolete.
It has detached us from everything we were meant to do and be.
No wonder many search for a life's purpose and find none.
We are letting our minds and bodies rot and have become too lazy to do anything to fix it.
Go back 100-200 years and do things the way they did? Many would have you committed for suggesting it.
Might, however, be our only salvation.

Sorry, and I will try to express this in a polite way, but I don't understand.
What was so much better 100 or 200 years ago? Really, I won't start with bad hygene, low life expectancy and low standards of living - but I can't think of anything better then than now.

There were no better solutions for the search of life's purpose.

Backwards into oblivion is not the better way.

We have to find an emulsion of the best ideas available - unrestricted to any boundaries, I agree with that, if I got your direction correctly. Yet, I have no doubt that life today is in nearly every possible way better for nearly everyone in the first-world-countries than it was more than 50 years ago.

I dare say, century or centuries ago, people lived more in harmony with themselves and the world around them as was done long before them. All that our technology has brought us is the decline of humanity in the span of a hundred years. The purpose was self preservation of the species and the planet...we care about neither anymore.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Sorry, and I will try to express this in a polite way, but I don't understand.
What was so much better 100 or 200 years ago? Really, I won't start with bad hygene, low life expectancy and low standards of living - but I can't think of anything better then than now.

There were no better solutions for the search of life's purpose.
.

I don't know, call me old fashioned, but there's a certain higher purpose to:
-Conducting most of your communications face to face, voice to voice, touch to touch rather than communicating mostly via miles of cables and air born signals with the aid of computer screens, smart phones, and "social" networks
-Sitting at the family dinner table with a home cooked meal of real, nutritious food, talking with each member of your family about their day and then all gathering together to play a card game or read some books rather than flopping down on the couch with a nuked "meal" and spending the rest of the night mindlessly watching a television with 250 channels, not a single one of which has anything worth watching shown on it.
-Busting your ass for 5 days out of the week, then spending a fun weekend with your family basking in the personal satisfaction of having provided for them and doing something purely for relaxation and enjoyment for the first time all week because you earned a rest rather than spending the week on your ass, doing little or nothing productive, waiting for the government subsidized check to arrive so your kids can sequester themselves in their rooms to play videogames while you try to fight boredom all weekend.
-Depending on YOURSELF by growing food, hunting food, chopping your firewood, tending your livestock, making your furniture, making your clothes, and knowing at the end of the day you by God are a self sufficient rock star rather than freaking out because the grocery store has run out of your favorite brand of snack cakes, your electricity bill is going up by 15% next month, and Levis has stopped making the style of jeans that son't make it look like you dropped a turd in the back of your pants.
-Having a scientific community which seems to make major discoveries and people who seem to make important inventions almost daily, such are the scale of the advancements in past centuries, rather than people crapping themselves because iPhone5 is going to have a 3% larger screen and weight an eight of an ounce less than iPhone4.
-Truly living in a free society in which a man's ceiling of success is only limited by his goals, his work ethic, and his determination rather than a regulated society in which there exists a middle ground ceiling large enough to ensure taxation, regulations, and restrictions keep those without connections and a high level of seed money to start with from ever achieving the dreams this nation was founded upon.
-Being able to claim a chunk of remote land and truly owning it rather than paying out the ass for a chunk of land and then annually paying the government a dowry for the right to not have it seized by those idiots and then auctioned off to the next guy willing to live as a serf.

I honestly could continue this all day long. Then again, I'm one of those folks who would turn the clock back 200 years if I had the power. I could lose all of this technology tomorrow and, assuming it was lost to all, would live far more as I wish I lived than I do today. Technology has made mankind weak and has turned the world into a land of controlled slaves. Most of our gadgets are little more than shiny baubbles intended to distract the caged bird from realizing it can never fly free. If the future holds more of that, and presents less reason and opportunity to answer life's real calling, making a legacy for yourself through what you have built and produced, then I sure hope that Mayan calendar prediction is correct.

Originally posted by AccessDenied

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by AccessDenied
At some point we need to realize that going backwards might be the only way to go forwards.
Tech has made us almost obsolete.
It has detached us from everything we were meant to do and be.
No wonder many search for a life's purpose and find none.
We are letting our minds and bodies rot and have become too lazy to do anything to fix it.
Go back 100-200 years and do things the way they did? Many would have you committed for suggesting it.
Might, however, be our only salvation.

Sorry, and I will try to express this in a polite way, but I don't understand.
What was so much better 100 or 200 years ago? Really, I won't start with bad hygene, low life expectancy and low standards of living - but I can't think of anything better then than now.

There were no better solutions for the search of life's purpose.

Backwards into oblivion is not the better way.

We have to find an emulsion of the best ideas available - unrestricted to any boundaries, I agree with that, if I got your direction correctly. Yet, I have no doubt that life today is in nearly every possible way better for nearly everyone in the first-world-countries than it was more than 50 years ago.

I dare say, century or centuries ago, people lived more in harmony with themselves and the world around them as was done long before them. All that our technology has brought us is the decline of humanity in the span of a hundred years. The purpose was self preservation of the species and the planet...we care about neither anymore.

edit on 5-12-2012 by AccessDenied because: (no reason given)

Hmmm. Could you explain the following of your points, please? I'm honest, not mocking!

(a) People lived more in harmony with themselves and the world around them.
Q: Betweeen all those wars and famines and droughts and other ugly events, could you describe the life of (for example) a farmer and his raised level of harmony? How did the harmony express itself in his life? What is your idea of harmony for a single person? Does he feel happier? Does he glow in the dark with mirth (okay, this was mocking..)? Honestly, this should be defined so we could argue about REAL higher levels of harmony.

(b) Selfpreservation of the species and the planet...we care about neither anymore.
Q: Selfpreservation of the species was never an important feature in humans minds - why war? The planet wasn't as polluted as it is today, I give you that, its a verifieable fact. The cause itself is a thing of many sources: overpopulation (or even just MORE population), newer technologies requiring materials and energysources prior not used, so there were nearly none plutonium on this planet, and so on.
Nevertheless, could you quote some facts how the selfpreservation of the species did occur?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Sorry, and I will try to express this in a polite way, but I don't understand.
What was so much better 100 or 200 years ago? Really, I won't start with bad hygene, low life expectancy and low standards of living - but I can't think of anything better then than now.

There were no better solutions for the search of life's purpose.
.

I don't know, call me old fashioned, but there's a certain higher purpose to:
-Conducting most of your communications face to face, voice to voice, touch to touch rather than communicating mostly via miles of cables and air born signals with the aid of computer screens, smart phones, and "social" networks

Families do work this way and will most likely ever do so.

-Sitting at the family dinner table with a home cooked meal of real, nutritious food, talking with each member of your family about their day and then all gathering together to play a card game or read some books rather than flopping down on the couch with a nuked "meal" and spending the rest of the night mindlessly watching a television with 250 channels, not a single one of which has anything worth watching shown on it.

Not a problem in our family, so I could overgeneralize like you did.

-Busting your ass for 5 days out of the week, then spending a fun weekend with your family basking in the personal satisfaction of having provided for them and doing something purely for relaxation and enjoyment for the first time all week because you earned a rest rather than spending the week on your ass, doing little or nothing productive, waiting for the government subsidized check to arrive so your kids can sequester themselves in their rooms to play videogames while you try to fight boredom all weekend.

Not a problem in our family, so I could overgeneralize like you did. Stop posting platitudes, please.

-Depending on YOURSELF by growing food, hunting food, chopping your firewood, tending your livestock, making your furniture, making your clothes, and knowing at the end of the day you by God are a self sufficient rock star rather than freaking out because the grocery store has run out of your favorite brand of snack cakes, your electricity bill is going up by 15% next month, and Levis has stopped making the style of jeans that son't make it look like you dropped a turd in the back of your pants.

I'm living in a larger city, how should I keep my own livestock?.. And whoever flips to the fact that some designer changes the style of some clothes does have my deepest sympathy for being such a shallow person.. I agree.

-Having a scientific community which seems to make major discoveries and people who seem to make important inventions almost daily, such are the scale of the advancements in past centuries, rather than people crapping themselves because iPhone5 is going to have a 3% larger screen and weight an eight of an ounce less than iPhone4.

Those people argueing over some smartphones are simply louder. The technology advances we have nowadays are rapidly increasing -> singularity.

-Truly living in a free society in which a man's ceiling of success is only limited by his goals, his work ethic, and his determination rather than a regulated society in which there exists a middle ground ceiling large enough to ensure taxation, regulations, and restrictions keep those without connections and a high level of seed money to start with from ever achieving the dreams this nation was founded upon.

Yeah right, as if that was better 100 years ago.... Nope.

-Being able to claim a chunk of remote land and truly owning it rather than paying out the ass for a chunk of land and then annually paying the government a dowry for the right to not have it seized by those idiots and then auctioned off to the next guy willing to live as a serf.

This is only and really only possible if there is an overabundance of unowned land. Hasn't happened here in Europe for the last thousand years, I guess.

I honestly could continue this all day long. Then again, I'm one of those folks who would turn the clock back 200 years if I had the power. I could lose all of this technology tomorrow and, assuming it was lost to all, would live far more as I wish I lived than I do today. Technology has made mankind weak and has turned the world into a land of controlled slaves. Most of our gadgets are little more than shiny baubbles intended to distract the caged bird from realizing it can never fly free. If the future holds more of that, and presents less reason and opportunity to answer life's real calling, making a legacy for yourself through what you have built and produced, then I sure hope that Mayan calendar prediction is correct.

You would die. Faster and more ugly than you or I would imagine. This I am sure of. I am sorry.

Dont forget, that technology is only there to serve people.......New little useless gadgets to waste time, the internet, facebook, cells phones with too many "Things" on them, all a waste of time. Basically toys.
If humans didnt buy these gadgets, then they wouldnt impact on society.
Other than these toys and time wasters, we havent improved much. Information is everywhere, but people seem dumber. School exams of 60+ years ago, would be considered too hard and "Tough" for today's kid.
Slide Rules, Log books, etc all replaced by the scientific calculator...kids are more interested in the latest "Celebrity" or computer game, not how to invent a new propulsion system, or flying craft for Mars.
Probably a little harsh and generalizing, but parents seem to be too busy to parent anymore...tho rich people always had nannys and butlers to do all that.
It seems to me that the Free thought and creativity of the late 1800s to the 1970s seems to have disappeared to a degree.....It is still there, but now hidden away by all these so called "New Technology' gadgets that we really dont need, and in a way made life more stress full.
Why am I wasting time typing on this computer communicating with who? Why Indeed.

Socialism for our needs and capitalism for everything else.