US Bureaucracy killing a Bio-Tech firm, keeping others away

I suppose this could go under another forum possibly but given the fact that it's a classic example of 'the bureaucracy expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy' I put it here, feel to move it if necessary.

Anyway, the days of America leading the way in science/tech breakthroughs is nearly over. Our hopelessly inefficient and bloated bureacracy is killing this firm, and keeping others away from the US as noted later in the article.

news.yahoo.com...

I'm sure the FDA will add a number of deskwork positions to create an even larger publicly funded task force to initiate an even larger than THAT publicly funded investigation as to how to 'stimulate' tech investment.

reply to post by HabiruThorstein


I certainly can't disagree with your lack of love for the FDA. But the last thing we need is more GMO food. Now, if only they could somehow stall and starve DuPont and Monsanto into nonexistence. Unfortunately, my guess is that Aquabounty hasn't been as conscientious about paying their "dues." In our new corporate/governmental paradigm, bureaucratic palms gotta be properly greased and pockets generously fattened before you can get any love....

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
reply to post by HabiruThorstein

 

I certainly can't disagree with your lack of love for the FDA. But the last thing we need is more GMO food. Now, if only they could somehow stall and starve DuPont and Monsanto into nonexistence. Unfortunately, my guess is that Aquabounty hasn't been as conscientious about paying their "dues." In our new corporate/governmental paradigm, bureaucratic palms gotta be properly greased and pockets generously fattened before you can get any love....

While I share your skepticism about modified food sources in general, I looked this critter up, one genetic tweak for faster growth, biochemistry remains (as far as I could tell) 100% the same. First off, I am not a genetic research scientist, but it appears the only thing that happens is that the normal sytem for kicking off maturation just starts earlier. So as long as it doesn't kicked out into the oceans and statys on the farm I'd be ok with this. I do share your opinion of DuPont and Monsanto 100%. Maybe 101%. But this looks to be something they could've done via long term breeding even

Many unintended consequences can come of "one little tweak." I'm less concerned about it than I would be many other things. But it's still GMO. Until we understand every consequence, I'd much prefer that we stop releasing stuff like this to market. I think we can survive just fine without throwing more gas on that particular fire.

Admittedly an old-fashioned attitude. But, hey: I'm an old-fashioned guy.

Past my bedtime now. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Good night.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


Hear ya loud and clear, and also you're certainly right on the payola part. The US Kleptocracy is becoming more corrupt all the time.

We'll be watching India, China and Russia make the bio-tech breakthroughs anyway I suspect.

reply to post by HabiruThorstein


Thanks for bringing this to my attention! So the FDA is "dragging it's feet"? F&^%!! I was hoping they outright denied the technology!!!

Your OP of "US Bureaucracy" is misleading...cuz all over Europe they wouldn't let Genetically Modified Food of this nature anywhere near the grocery store. Europe is much more wary of GMO food than the US! Mostly because there is less corruption in the "FDA(s)" of Europe, where in the USA it is more of a tool to corporations.

I have to love this bit from your OP..

The Food and Drug Administration in 2010 concluded that Aquabounty's salmon was as safe to eat as the traditional variety.

The agency also said that there's little chance that the salmon could escape and breed with wild fish, which could disrupt the fragile relationships between plants and animals in nature. But more than two years later the FDA has not approved the fish, and Aquabounty is running out of money.

FOR EFFS SAKE!!!!! Even hear of the Asian Carp??? There hasn't been a widely bred alien fish in the USA that HASN'T escaped into the wild and wreaked havok!!

Here is a simple fact...they breed them in isolated ponds...OK. Then a flock of geese land in the water. Fish eggs get stuck to thier feet and feathers and are transported to the nearest waterway by the birds.

It has happened for Millenia...Fish migrate. If nature wanted Trout to grow at 5X times the rate they do, then nature would have done just that. How stupid arrogant we are. What happens when these fish end up in other waterways and their rapid growth lets them out-compete every other species...how does that effect the food chain????

Take a look at what the Asian Carp has done to our waterways!!!!

Asian carp were first introduced to North America by fish farmers in the southern U.S. They imported the carp to control plant growth in fish ponds.


Screw this company!! And ef the FDA for even considering it!

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by HabiruThorstein

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! So the FDA is "dragging it's feet"? F&^%!! I was hoping they outright denied the technology!!!

Your OP of "US Bureaucracy" is misleading...cuz all over Europe they wouldn't let Genetically Modified Food of this nature anywhere near the grocery store. Europe is much more wary of GMO food than the US! Mostly because there is less corruption in the "FDA(s)" of Europe, where in the USA it is more of a tool to corporations.

I have to love this bit from your OP..

The Food and Drug Administration in 2010 concluded that Aquabounty's salmon was as safe to eat as the traditional variety.

The agency also said that there's little chance that the salmon could escape and breed with wild fish, which could disrupt the fragile relationships between plants and animals in nature. But more than two years later the FDA has not approved the fish, and Aquabounty is running out of money.

FOR EFFS SAKE!!!!! Even hear of the Asian Carp??? There hasn't been a widely bred alien fish in the USA that HASN'T escaped into the wild and wreaked havok!!

Here is a simple fact...they breed them in isolated ponds...OK. Then a flock of geese land in the water. Fish eggs get stuck to thier feet and feathers and are transported to the nearest waterway by the birds.

It has happened for Millenia...Fish migrate. If nature wanted Trout to grow at 5X times the rate they do, then nature would have done just that. How stupid arrogant we are. What happens when these fish end up in other waterways and their rapid growth lets them out-compete every other species...how does that effect the food chain????

Take a look at what the Asian Carp has done to our waterways!!!!

Asian carp were first introduced to North America by fish farmers in the southern U.S. They imported the carp to control plant growth in fish ponds.

Screw this company!! And ef the FDA for even considering it!

Go bury your head in the sand and pretend science doesn't matter. You want pure nature? Go live in the woods and use leaves for toilet paper.

100 years from now, assuming we don't nuke each other to death, there will be 1 of 2 scenarios regarding food, either we learn bio-technology and expand the amount of it we produce at a faster rate than we are now, or famine/disease will do it's Darwinian best. Chemical fertilers are not the answer, especially the ones being used today of which many are petroleum based.

Asian Carp- rssult of international shipping stupidity, not science.

reply to post by Snoil


Can't give you enough stars. The amount of hate for science on these forums is really starting to get to me. "Waah waah, live in harmony with nature!" No, eff that. Nature hates us all. Humans aren't meant to be content with nature, otherwise we'd still be tribal hunter-gatherers. Instead, we've put men on the moon, split the atom and learned to harness the natural world for our own advancement.

Originally posted by Snoil

Go bury your head in the sand and pretend science doesn't matter. You want pure nature? Go live in the woods and use leaves for toilet paper.

100 years from now, assuming we don't nuke each other to death, there will be 1 of 2 scenarios regarding food, either we learn bio-technology and expand the amount of it we produce at a faster rate than we are now, or famine/disease will do it's Darwinian best. Chemical fertilers are not the answer, especially the ones being used today of which many are petroleum based.

Asian Carp- rssult of international shipping stupidity, not science.

edit on 5-12-2012 by Snoil because: grammar

edit on 5-12-2012 by Snoil because: typo

No...Asian Carp were not accidently delivered anywhere? What on earth are you talking about? They spread form contained waterways...the way nature designed fish to spread.

I am fairly confident that I both know more and am a bigger fan of "science" than yourself. For that very reason I can easily spot where greed overcomes rational understanding of science and nature. Invasive species actually damage the food supply by both eliminating the diversity of species and natural balance and creating a homonogized food source that is more vulnerable to disease...thus leading to further genetic modifications to counter unforseen consequences of the original "experiment"...rinse and repeat...with food supplies suffering and corporations profiting. The pesticide industry is actually a terrific example of this cycle.

Hydroponics, efficiencies in food production etc. will be the future...hopefully. But genetically modified organisms with the ability to reproduce will destroy our food sources and we have seen significant evidence to support that.

The motivation is to create organisms that are bigger, grow faster etc. This naturally designs them to crowd out and destroy all other organisms in the food chain, from native species to up and down the food chain. It happens everywhere it has been tried. It's not mysterious. Life reproduces and spreads despite our best efforts. It is too expensive to quaranteen the fish and make money. Their eggs will be transported to natural waterways via natural processes...floods, migratory birds etc. They will then by thier own design decimate those natural waterways, eliminating vast swaths of previously undisturbed food sources. the economy in those regions then shifts to become reliant on a single, monolithic food source that is now vulnerable to disease and provides less diversity in nutrition...It is not imagination. Local communities in Illinois have been decimated by the asian carp. Where once towns had healthy fish markets...they now barely survive selling the Asian carp at bottom prices to fertilizer factories.

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by Snoil

 

Can't give you enough stars. The amount of hate for science on these forums is really starting to get to me. "Waah waah, live in harmony with nature!" No, eff that.

Yah...and the amount of ignorance with regards to science is stunning. Science is the STUDY OF NATURE and the underpinnings of the natural laws that dictate reality. Being opposed to GMO's isn't a hate of science, it is a view arrived at by those who have been informed by science.

River town on front line of Asian carp invasion


While lawmakers and the White House ratchet up efforts to keep Asian carp out of Lake Michigan, boating and fishing communities along the Illinois River are under siege.
articles.chicagotribune.com...

This isn't tree-huggers vs. scientists....this is good science vs. corporate greed.

Good science has shown repeatedly and consistently that efforts to quaranteen fish farms fail. All it takes is one migratory bird to swim through an egg trail...one worker to not clean his transport gear...one flood or nearby water way...and a super-competitor is released into a natural water-way that has up to that point provided a healthy and divers food source.

Inigo5, is it then your prescription that we should not continue to learn about how to increase food yields? You claim such totality of scientific knowledge, yet rant againt using it? What, pray tell, can salmon that grow a bit faster, not larger overall, Get a grip, this isn't an invasive species

Originally posted by Snoil
Inigo5, is it then your prescription that we should not continue to learn about how to increase food yields?

Why you would attribute such nonsense to me is beyond me. Correction...it is an attempt to employ a false dichotomy. Either I am for Genetically Modified Fish or I am against increasing food yields?

Are those my choices? Do you beat your wife on weekdays or weekends?

I am for funding, researching and aggressively pursuing ways to increase food yields.

I am against genetically modifying species to grow quickly or more largely.

I am against this for two principle reasons..
(1) The very traits that are sought during genetic modifications for food purposes (increased size and rapid maturation) are also the very traits that equip these new species to quickly crowd out and destroy natural species that have evolved over millions of years.

That destruction of natural species results in often unforseen and unpredicted consequences up and down the food chain.

...and (2) Amongst the consequences that can be easily and immediately seen are the homonigization of local food resources. Instead of several fish available for food..only one is then found in the wild...less nutritional diversity...economic upset...more dependance on a single species means more vulnerability to disease etc. Diversity is natures way of preventing a single disease, drought, flood, fire from wiping out large swaths of biology.

The folks that start companies for this purpose have a profit motive. that is appropriate. Capitalism is all good. But that also means that it is not in their economic interest to fully acknowledge the obvious strong likelihood that natural waterways will be contaminated.

GMOs run the risk of actually restricting food resources...less diversity, less nutrition via less diversity, loss of traditional food sources in natural waterways as the GMO beasts out-compete them...on and on it goes...But the GMO company wins either way.

Originally posted by Snoil
You claim such totality of scientific knowledge, yet rant againt using it?

I also understand basic Nuclear Physics, it does not mean I am pro-nuclear weapons being used.

I am not going to apologize for either informing myself, nor thinking.

I've read about and totally understand there are risks playing with genes, especially when said genes are a significant part of the food chain. I don't bash genetic engineering wholesale though. Just because some effects of fossil fuel industrial explosion have been bad, many others have good. Almost any new technological advance has perils. Nuclear fission has been great for France, not so great for Japan for instance.

From what I have read of this particular case, none of the following downsides of genetic modding appear to be in play: no new allergies or toxins, no problems reported in terms of fertility, no behavioral changes, also, their farm fish, not to be introduced into the wild.

The reason is just that they kick into their mature growth sooner. From a bio-chemical standpoint they are the same thing, they just get bigger sooner.

I think chasing companies that do good science, that conduct and publish the necessary studies being chased out of the US is a terrible precedent that will set us back badly. Genetic and other forms of bio-engineering are on the way like it or not. Promoting and encouraging those that do it responsibly over the irresponsible whores of Monsanto Corp is right way to go about it.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by Snoil

 

Can't give you enough stars. The amount of hate for science on these forums is really starting to get to me. "Waah waah, live in harmony with nature!" No, eff that.

Yah...and the amount of ignorance with regards to science is stunning. Science is the STUDY OF NATURE and the underpinnings of the natural laws that dictate reality. Being opposed to GMO's isn't a hate of science, it is a view arrived at by those who have been informed by science.

No dude! it's a view arrived at by those who have been informed by pseudo-science!!! And perhaps even blogo-science in some cases.