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posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Maybe this can help you out

newscitybuzz.com...




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Speckle
 

I looked at the budget.
Here is what the 2013 DARPA budget request says about their HAARP project. Studies on:

The generation and amplification of extremely low frequency (ELF)/ultra low frequency (ULF)/very low frequency (VLF) radiation in the ionosphere utilizing the High Frequency Active Aural Research Program (HAARP) transmitter


Plans for 2013:

FY 2013 Plans:
- Conduct numerical studies of ion dynamics caused by ULF, and of VLF wave propagation through the ionosphere inside density ducts created by artificial heating.
- Experimentally attempt 3-D observations of HF-induced plasma structures and potentially determine relative HF power absorption for different altitudes, frequencies and geophysical conditions.


www.darpa.mil... (page 56)

Nothing about "radio surveillance , and to look as far beneath the crust of the Earth".
edit on 12/10/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Speckle
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Maybe this can help you out

newscitybuzz.com...


In what way?

It says nothing about HAARP being "designed for radio surveillance" nor anything about it being used to look "far beneath the crust of hte earth" that I can see.
edit on 10-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 



GWEN did not use ELF, it used LF, 30-300 kHz. Ground waves diffract and refract around the earth, they travel "in" the air and the earth. GWEN did not directly communicate with submarines, but would relay a message to and ELF facility like Clam Lake. ELF submarine communication systems use wire strung on poles between two conductors about about 30-40 miles apart, creating a large antenna with the earth circuit.

This is good information. As far as it goes. GWEN, though, ran into a lot of trouble in some states where people objected to what they perceived as a clandestine mind-control network. That sent GWEN to state owned land and private land in a number of cases. It probably caused a rethink of the marketing of a network like this as well.

The GWEN system began construction in 1980 and, at that time, projected 300 towers to be completed by 1990.

Is There A GWEN Tower Near You?

Three hundred (300) ft. of copper wire fans out in a spoke like fashion from the base of the underground system, interacting with the earth like a thin shelled conductor, radiating radio wave energy for very long distances through the ground. The USA bathes in this magnetic field which rises to 500 ft, even going down to basements, so everyone is subject to mind control.


The VLF signals travel by waves that hug the ground rather than radiate into the atmosphere. A GWEN station transmits up to a 300-mile radius, the signal dropping off sharply over distance.


So by stringing towers and copper wire together across the country in this fashion we soon come to an acceptable length to handle some ELF waves.

With this system, as it was originally stated, in order to provide a conduit network to insure localized, predictable coverage, coast to coast, 53,000 towers would be required. (3000 miles coast to coast times 5300 feet/mile = 15,900,000 feet divided by 300 feet = 53,000 towers.) I think GWEN admitted to 58. The 53,000 towers, under this system (without knowing what improvements have been made in the 300 foot transmission distance) would only cover a contiguous section of the country 3000 miles long by 300 feet wide.

The Clam facility that you mentioned (as described in the Wiki article), along with the Russian facility was involved with 60 to 80 herz. that's a much shorter wavelength than the wavelength required for zombieism/mind control which is getting into the single digit herz. Still...backing up, if I'm understanding this correctly: GWEN was set to operate when other communications systems went down i.e. no ionospheric bouncing available. It used its' network to communicate to Clam. Clam was then somehow able to generate ELF (?) in order to send some sort of extremely generic communication to the submarine in the event that the submarine was unable to surface.

The ELF that Clam generated at this point was a sort of grab it on the run as long as you know the frequency.

So assuming at this point that global zombieism was not desired but what was desired was the ability to pacify identified and located segments of the population, there still existed the need for a network that could be controlled. Marketing for GWEN had failed.

As of mid 2012, there were 190,000 cell towers in the U.S. (In 1985 there were 900.)

Cell Phone Tower Statistics

The GWEN tower in this short video looks like the cell tower in the OP original palm tree punk video. Slap some palm tree fronds on it and you're good to go.

GWEN Towers Resemble Cell Phone Towers

And then there's the ultra-mini-cell tower:

Femtocells Now Outnumber Physical Cell Towers in the US

So I think there's a network here that morphed away from GWEN which the public saw as evil and became, instead, fake cell towers etc.


edit on 10-12-2012 by luxordelphi because: fix link - thx Gaul!



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen
 


Gees, almost looks like an old decrepit pyramid in the background of the picture. Placement is the clue to success.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


So by stringing towers and copper wire together across the country in this fashion we soon come to an acceptable length to handle some ELF waves.
You think the stations were connected to each other by wire? Good grief.


15,900,000 feet divided by 300 feet
300 feet? You think the range of the stations was 300 feet?
Brilliant.


Like I said, no understanding of the material.

edit on 12/10/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by Speckle
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Maybe this can help you out

newscitybuzz.com...



From that link:


HAARP is an attractive target for conspiracy theorists because according to computer scientist David Naiditch, “its purpose seems deeply mysterious to the scientifically uninformed”.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

GWEN Towers Resemble Cell Phone Towers


did you mean to put an actual link there?

What a GWEN tower actually looked like:




And then there's the ultra-mini-cell tower:

Femtocells Now Outnumber Physical Cell Towers in the US

So I think there's a network here that morphed away from GWEN which the public saw as evil and became, instead, fake cell towers etc.


given that cell phones never used the same wavelengths as GWEN the idea that it somehow "morphed" is an interesting one - would you are to explain your reasoning?
edit on 10-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
With this system, as it was originally stated, in order to provide a conduit network to insure localized, predictable coverage, coast to coast, 53,000 towers would be required. (3000 miles coast to coast times 5300 feet/mile = 15,900,000 feet divided by 300 feet = 53,000 towers.) I think GWEN admitted to 58. The 53,000 towers, under this system (without knowing what improvements have been made in the 300 foot transmission distance) would only cover a contiguous section of the country 3000 miles long by 300 feet wide.


I think you assume 300 distance between adjacent towers, which is totally weird and can't possibly be true. The "ground hugging" low frequency waves emitted by GWEN have a much, much larger range.


GWEN Towers Resemble Cell Phone Towers


First off, GWEN towers have nothing in common with cell towers, second, if you read the description of the video on YouTube, it becomes apparent that it was posted by a person in need of urgent psychiatric help.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
Although, your claimed area of expertise on HAARP, diesel engines, is not broad enough nor open enough to address HAARP as a soul catcher gadget. It takes a different sort of mental process, perhaps a homeopathic minded process, to look at that.


Ha. No, my claimed expertise is the array, exciter to antennas. Cross my palm with enough silver, and I'll design you one better than Gakona.

YOU asked how the 3.6MW number was derived, and you've been fixated on diesel engines since. Soul catcher gadget? Over that way ----> are the forums for that sort of thing. Seriously? Soul catcher gadget? I had sort of thought of you as inquisitive but technically uninformed, but that one, hm.



I find links on the internet that tell me, variously, that Eastlund, ARCO and APTI own the Eastlund patents. If this is a challenge to a links war - no thanks. If you want to discuss corporate or military industrial complex buy-out of patents in this thread - no thanks. And, Mr. Microwave, HAARP beams, tightly, in the RF, pulsed. Two-beam pulsed. Or...did I read somewhere three beams; how about four?


That doesn't make sense at all. Generally, you at least have some common thread to a statement but I can't pluck it out of that one.



Your microwave garbage arguments...


Eastlunds "HAARP patents" deal with microwave power beaming. HAARP is not that.



Anything between 3Hz and 300GHz is still refered to as RF waves..bla bla bla...at frequencies from 2.8 - 10 MHz (HF, high frequency range).


THAT. It's HF. Not microwave. Not even close. Not at all what Eastlund was describing. Thanks, you posted it exactly.




The VLF group focuses on using HAARP to generate ELF and VLF waves through a process called modulated heating.



HAARP is located in a region where large natural currents, known as the auroral electrojet flow through the ionosphere. By turning the HF array on and off (i.e. modulating the HF power) at ELF frequencies, we can also modulate the conductivity of the ionosphere at those frequencies (Ferraro et al., 1982; Stubbe and Kopka, 1977; Tomko et al., 1980). When combined with the electric field that drives the auroral electrojet, the result is a current that oscillates and thus radiates at the modulation frequency: a ELF antenna in the ionosphere.



Right, this is what I told you upthread. I've also posted a lot on it on other HAARP threads. And it agrees with this.



So our atmosphere, our ionosphere, protects us from incoming ELF. In this same way, man-made ELF frequencies, on the wrong side of the ionosphere, do not escape. They stay here, bouncing, to pre-determined trajectories, doing their dirty business of apathy entrainment.


"pre determined trajectories"? Hardly. ELF is huge. No focus, no target.
edit on 11-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Speckle
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Maybe this can help you out

newscitybuzz.com...


Looks like the authors sort of read the DARPA project calendar and tried to attribute anything atmospheric or plasma based to HAARP. It's not correct in many points.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 



The amplification is more an aspect of parts of the ionosphere and inner magnetosphere.

Thx for your straightforward and truthful answer. This is part of the heart of the HAARP controversy: the lack of predictability in the ionosphere.


The "Hertzian antenna" thing that was being discussed upthread is the pulse transmitter - it's basically a spark gap sort of rig.

So is this (does it look like) the pictures one finds on the net of Tesla with two giant poles and huge lightning in between?


ELF doesn't do mind control.

ELF does entrainment. Don't quibble. It does it with all things, including living things. Here is an oft linked article, one of the older ones on the net, talking about the effects of various ELF.

E.L.F. Infested Spaces

This one is kind of long but has a section in it devoted to lightning (which was discussed earlier in this thread) and is interesting because it ties an increase in lightning strikes to global warming. It doesn't ask, but I will: which came first - the global warming or the man-made lightning? Or the man-made ELF?

Measuring Changes in the Schumann's Resonances


Between the almost perfectly conducting terrestrial surface and ionosphere, a resonating cavity is formed. Broadband electromagnetic impulses, like those from lightning flashes, fill this cavity, and create globally enveloping Schumann resonances ranging from frequencies 5 - 50 Hz (Schumann, 1952; Bliokh et al., 1980; Sentman, 1987). The nominal average frequencies observed are 7.8, 14, 20, 26, 33, 39, and 45 Hz with slight diurnal variation (Sentman and Fraser, 1991).


Scientists have suggested lately that another method may exist to accurately monitor planetary temperature. The idea is simple, though the underlying physics of the processes are complex. The method is based on the well known fact that thunderstorms and lightning strokes in many parts of the world are directly related to lower-atmospheric air temperatures. Higher temperatures produce more lightning strokes, while lower temperatures tend to depress lightning activity.


Lightning discharges occurring anywhere in the world produce electromagnetic pulses that spread away from the source. Much of the energy is quickly degraded, but some of the energy the lightning produces falls in the extremely low-frequency, long-wavelength domain of the electromagnetic spectrum. At these long wavelengths, the energy from a lightning stroke is able to circumnavigate the earth without serious degradation.


In an article published in Science, M.I.T. scientist Earle Williams (1992) constructed a powerful argument that links Schumann resonances to convection and ultimately to widespread tropical and/or global temperature. Williams concluded that a 1°C warming in the tropics should result in a fourfold increase in lightning activity, and he presented empirical data from several locations to support his conclusion.


In a detailed, interconnected system like our earth, the consequences of concentrated heating in a region as volatile as the ionosphere, can't be grasped because they are unknown. The production of ELF du jour uses the entire globe as a laboratory. And it uses each individual human being as a guinea pig.


BTW, the amount of information that you can convey with a radio signal is directly proportional to the frequency, by the time you're down to ELF the bit rate is worse than an old 300 baud modem. It doesn't really lend itself to conveying images or voices. Also, like any other EM, the minimum focal size is also related to the wavelength, so you can't make tiny foci with it.

In the case of ELF and entrainment, the frequency is the information.


The path loss in salt water is friggin' heinous, even for ELF, but it's a lot worse for, say HF than ELF by orders of magnitude.

We don't have to worry about ELF hitting us in salt water. The submarine crew need to worry about this. They need to worry about what it will do to their attitudes. Apathy, when operating a nuclear sub, would seem dangerous. Also, zombies, in charge of a nuclear sub, doesn't sound like a good idea.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 





Reception of Submarine Communications Systems




Subs used to trail an active detector that was less an antenna than an e-field slope detector. Eventually they stopped trailing an array and started using a SQUID to detect the h-field component of the ELF signal. Now they don't use it at all.


Pic for those visually oriented to see what using ELF to communicate with the submarine looks like. Don't use what at all?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 



Brooks Agnew was using a ground penetrating radar. It's not ELF.

He never said he was using ELF. You said he said that. HAARP isn't using ELF either. What about it?


Locations don't "resonate" at a frequency - I'm assuming that you're referring to an EM frequency, since you're also talking about magnetotellurics and Brooks Agnew.

Everything moves. Nothing stands still. There is no isolation. Everything is interconnected.


Oh, also, if you HAD a resonant circuit, say a parallel tank, and it's tuned to 1MHz, and I hit it with 1.5MHz, it doesn't produce 500kHz as an effect. It just doesn't resonate. Production of sum and difference frequencies is a whole other matter.

So is this like canned food? What about the sub-atomic particles then? They dead?


Back to magnetotellurics, you can use any source that causes changes in the local magnetic field. What you have to do is put down sensors in a grid over the area you want to survey, and you wait. If you don't want to wait, you use HAARP, I suppose . Otherwise, you will get the signal you want at sunrise, sunset or if you get a bad thunderstorm somewhere in the vicinity, but not where you're at. You want one maybe 50 miles off.

Thx for this explanation.
It's a start.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this (does it look like) the pictures one finds on the net of Tesla with two giant poles and huge lightning in between?


Not much - it looks like a really insulated dipole antenna with a big lump in the center, where you've got a SF6 spark gap and an HV charging system.



ELF does entrainment. Don't quibble. It does it with all things, including living things. Here is an oft linked article, one of the older ones on the net, talking about the effects of various ELF.


It's also an article about trying to induce psychic powers in people. One with no data, no analysis, no replication. Hell, if you like, I'll get one of our scratch pages, write you an article saying I built all that stuff without being able to replicate a bit of it, and then you'll have a Real Web Article to link to, with exactly the same amount of validity.



It doesn't ask, but I will: which came first - the global warming or the man-made lightning? Or the man-made ELF?


Then I'll ask, could it be related to increased cosmic ray activity, or the time that the guy next door goes over to the 7-11 and gets a coffee, or to that godawful Jersey Shore program?


Between the almost perfectly conducting terrestrial surface and ionosphere, a resonating cavity is formed circumnavigate the earth without serious degradation.


My God. Bibliotecleyapades actually linking to a real article? It's unprecedented.



In a detailed, interconnected system like our earth, the consequences of concentrated heating in a region as volatile as the ionosphere, can't be grasped because they are unknown. The production of ELF du jour uses the entire globe as a laboratory. And it uses each individual human being as a guinea pig.


The Earth produces "ELF du jour" by itself. BTW, what do you think the output power HAARP can get from the electrojet has been? Max, avg, I don't care. Take a stab.



In the case of ELF and entrainment, the frequency is the information.


Not if you're positing that ELF can convey voices, information, images, hallucinations.




We don't have to worry about ELF hitting us in salt water. The submarine crew need to worry about this. They need to worry about what it will do to their attitudes. Apathy, when operating a nuclear sub, would seem dangerous. Also, zombies, in charge of a nuclear sub, doesn't sound like a good idea.


Your question was something on the order of "How does ELF reach submarines". Quit scoooooting those goal posts.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by luxordelphi
The CERN facility can also break down the atmosphere with their collisions.


What does CERN have with anything in this thread? And even then, why do you mention CERN and not some other accelerator facility?


Because CERN has CLOUD and CLOUD uses fake cosmic rays and because:


The temperature and pressure conditions anywhere in the atmosphere can be re-created within the chambers, and all experimental conditions can be controlled and measured, including the ‘cosmic ray’ intensity and the contents of the chambers.


CLOUD - Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets

They are creating conditions, without HAARP and without the ionosphere, that relate to Eastlund's cosmic ray patent for creating ionospheric conditions at sea level. And because the act of doing this was being questioned insofar as - is it being done.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

Don't use what at all?


ELF. It's one with last winter's snows.

We dropped it. The land based transmitters are off line. You no longer hear Sanguine or Seafarer on the air. The equipment has been sent to the DRMO. It's hopped the twig. It's shuffled off this mortal coil. It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. It is an ex-project.

Word's been sort of unnaturally slow to make it around the CT circuit for some reason. These days subs use VLF or something else, which is sort of cool in and of itself but not for discussion.

We've got LOTS of VLF rigs going up. It's sort of odd that all the guys taking pics of cell towers and GWEN didn't post any of it.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

He never said he was using ELF. You said he said that. HAARP isn't using ELF either. What about it?


I believe that he does, quite often, although after having first read his material I've sort of avoided reading it again.



Everything moves. Nothing stands still. There is no isolation. Everything is interconnected.


That doesn't produce any sort of "local resonance" though, does it?




So is this like canned food? What about the sub-atomic particles then? They dead?


They don't produce EM sum and difference frequencies.
edit on 11-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


They are creating conditions, without HAARP and without the ionosphere, that relate to Eastlund's cosmic ray patent for creating ionospheric conditions at sea level. And because the act of doing this was being questioned insofar as - is it being done.
In a cloud chamber, a tank. So what? And it does not create ionospheric conditions because they aren't studying the effects of cosmic rays on the ionosphere.
cloud.web.cern.ch...

Eastlund's patent said nothing about creating ionospheric conditions at sea level.


edit on 12/11/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Don't use what at all?


ELF. It's one with last winter's snows.

We dropped it.


News article from 2005


Almost a year after the U.S. Navy pulled the plug on its massive submarine communication system in northern Wisconsin, the job of dismantling Project ELF is still a work in progress| with a final plan not yet set.

"It is not a quick, easy or clean process. It is messy, dirty and takes time," said Tim Ward, operations manager for the facility near Clam Lake. "Ultimately, we all hope it is for the greater good."


Just for the record....





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