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Little HAARP's

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posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 




I'm a relatively educated and intelligent person - knowing about where lightning originates is not rocket science, but learning about what allows it to propogate from the troposphere into the upper atmosphere is something that I havent really done yet. I do a lot of my posting from work (like I am now) so I dont really have that much time to read about it, but it seems interesting enough to read up about when I get some time at home.



I, too, find it all extremely fascinating but the parts I like best are the man-made phenomena masquerading as natural. Like the rocket or aircraft triggered lightning. Or...




posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




So wood burning stoves have nothing to do with anything.


My discussion with you about power grid fluctuations in SO CA and the high desert along with enclosed stoves was not about ERP. The ERP figure is calculated based on a starting number of power in. Power in is a hand-out figure when it comes to HAARP. It's not even a hand-out when it comes to little HAARP's because little HAARP's are not disclosed.

I was offerring a way(s) to use the grid to power these systems (beyond what is disclosed which is all that can be disclosed otherwise people would be asking where the power input was from). And I was offerring the various excuses that could be given to the public to 'explain' a loss of power.

I was offerring, obliquely, a way to finance this power, because during those times in SO CA the cost of power went up - doubled in some cases and went even higher than that in others.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 

Here is the DARPA budget request for 2013.
www.darpa.mil...
It does indeed show a budget of $11 million for "Fundamentals of Physical Phenomena" (page 56) however it does not say that HAARP has anything to do with studies of lightning. It lists:
1) Foundational studies on the initiation, propagation, and attachment of lightning, and their associated emissions
2) The critical factors affecting magnetospheric sub-storms
3) The generation and amplification of extremely low frequency (ELF)/ultra low frequency (ULF)/very low frequency (VLF) radiation in the ionosphere utilizing the High Frequency Active Aural Research Program (HAARP) transmitter
4) Understanding and quantifying the interaction of electromagnetic and acoustic waves with the plasma in flames
So out of 4 specific projects in the program only one seems to involve HAARP.

The statements you list under "FY 2011 Accomplishments" actually fall under the "FY 2012 Plans" category in the budget request but again, it has nothing to do with HAARP. The researchers fire wire trailing rockets into thunderstorms. Sort of like what Ben Franklin supposedly did with a kite. The University of Florida is doing the research. No HAARP. No ionosphere.
news.ufl.edu...
edit on 12/8/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
4) Understanding and quantifying the interaction of electromagnetic and acoustic waves with the plasma in flames


Or, "How we'd like to use the pilot light to listen in on your conversations"

You can make a dandy if somewhat bizarre little loudspeaker out of a fire, though.



posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 

Or make candles sing.

edit on 12/8/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 




You don't understand something and are afraid of it. You believe the nonsense that people like Begich belch. When I don't understand something I try to do so. I don't go doing keyword searches and picking out of context statements to prove to myself that it really is something to be afraid of. There are more than enough real life things to worry about.


Just one word: ruserious?

Dear Magician of Social Media: oh that you weren't quite so transparent!



You said lightning storms originate in the ionosphere. You have presented no evidence of that being the case.


I gave a link. My link, from wiki, said so. That's what we do here. We give links.

Srsly, think about it. When you begin to grasp the nature of the ionosphere and its' inherent volatility and unpredictability, it makes sense. HAARPadherents aren't going to like it, though, because HAARP is heating the ionosphere - causing these thousand lightning strike events? Chill and consider.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:


Fascinating video. So, basically, Admiral Byrd, wayback, began this search for an entrance to an underground haven at or near the north pole (well within the arctic cirle in any event). And Dr. Brooks Agnew has some kind of a grant and some idea of where to look and the use of a nuclear ice breaker to continue this search.

I stated previously in this thread that my knowledge and experience of tomography was limited to Dr. Brooks Agnew in the video I previously put up and an open house at JPL. That wasn't entirely true - had forgotten completely about Blue Mountain. Blue Mountain, fairly recently given back to the Pueblo tribes, showed anomalies in tomography returns suggesting an underground expanse. The entrance is supposedly lost in time and is only suggested by "our ancestors came out of a hole in the ground" Sipapu oral tradition. Taos, the name itself, means dwell gap.

So all I can really gather from your post is that you do not understand atronomical orbits and returns and therefore do not see a need for previous civilizations seeking haven underground.

Further, I gather, that this is wayofftopic, and that you have little personal knowledge or experience of tomography and, therefore, are not able to extrapolate how it is used, or could be used in archeology.

But, say hey, anyway.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter
I'm a relatively educated and intelligent person - knowing about where lightning originates is not rocket science, but learning about what allows it to propogate from the troposphere into the upper atmosphere


If you are educated and intelligent, please take care while spelling the word "propogate" (wait, it's "propagate"), which is fundamental to many areas of science and must be seen and learned by people who study a little.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
 




Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:


Fascinating video. So, basically, Admiral Byrd, wayback, began this search for an entrance to an underground haven at or near the north pole (well within the arctic cirle in any event). And Dr. Brooks Agnew has some kind of a grant and some idea of where to look and the use of a nuclear ice breaker to continue this search.

I stated previously in this thread that my knowledge and experience of tomography was limited to Dr. Brooks Agnew in the video I previously put up and an open house at JPL. That wasn't entirely true - had forgotten completely about Blue Mountain. Blue Mountain, fairly recently given back to the Pueblo tribes, showed anomalies in tomography returns suggesting an underground expanse. The entrance is supposedly lost in time and is only suggested by "our ancestors came out of a hole in the ground" Sipapu oral tradition. Taos, the name itself, means dwell gap.

So all I can really gather from your post is that you do not understand atronomical orbits and returns and therefore do not see a need for previous civilizations seeking haven underground.


What my post was intended to illustrate what that Agnew believes in a hollow earth theory that is physically impossible (for a variety of reasons, but mostly gravity). Hence he's not a very good scientist. Hence his testimony about HAARP creating earthquakes, seeing as it's not substantiated by anything other than his word, is most likely bunk. Sorry I was not clear.

I'm also quite familiar with astronomical orbits, remember we had quite long discussions about them on the "upside down moon" thread. You seem to suggest that ancient advanced civilizations would have created underground shelters to hid from some incoming body. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
You seem to suggest that ancient advanced civilizations would have created underground shelters to hid from some incoming body. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.


It doesn't have to do with anything at all, but let me comment, spontaneously -- it would take quite a shelter to protect from a planetary impact.

I would like to see an evidence of anything on that scale.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by Pervius
The first weaponized use of directional radio was by the Nazi's in WWII.


Sure about that? care to provide some proof.... any at all?


Who took control of the former nazi high power radio towers after WWII?

"TWR".....supposedly a christian outfit to blast the 'word' around the globe.


Except for the fact that

Trans World Radio was founded on February 11, 1952


Do you even know why directional radio is used? It appears you do not!




www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

HAARP is powered by the Natural Gas Field they found up there.


First effective use of Directional Radio was the Nazi's creating plasma balls to disable bombers engines, the bomber crews called the plasma balls "Foo Fighters".

TWR took over the former Nazi's radio towers, use Google. They have mega millions of transmitting power today and are using Directional Radio. Their recently upgraded facility in Guam for example....why so much power if they are merely transmitting bible stories?? How on Earth are they paying the power bill to transmit mega-millions of watts every day? Ain't getting the funding from collection plates......


Another little brother to HAARP is SuperDARN. A John Hopkins University Applied Physics National Security project. She's a Ionosphere worker as well.

www.jhuapl.edu...

This John Hopkins Applied Physics satellite project will work in conjunction with the Air Force's new tethered satellites to take highly charged particles from the radiation belts and feed them into the Ionosphere...and work with HAARP to...."do things"

www.spaceref.com...

If you enjoy reading look up what the former Nazi Wernher Von Braun...turned our NASA guy said about the Nazi nuclear bomb...."we gave them to America because you are a Christian nation and wouldn't use them".

Nazi's made the nuke first. Straight from Von Braun......we turned around and used them on Japan. The Nazi's were further ahead of us in research and we weren't taught such.

They even created the first remote control bombs. We took them after knocking down Germany and used them on the attack on Guam when we were retaking it from the Japanese.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by Pervius
First effective use of Directional Radio was the Nazi's creating plasma balls to disable bombers engines, the bomber crews called the plasma balls "Foo Fighters".


Any proof for that silly claim?


TWR took over the former Nazi's radio towers, use Google.


You made that claim before, and ignored the fact TWR was not started until 1952....


They have mega millions of transmitting power today and are using Directional Radio. Their recently upgraded facility in Guam for example....why so much power if they are merely transmitting bible stories??


Just a little bit of proper research and you would have found

TWR broadcasts to numerous unreached groups, such as the Han Chinese and Cantonese; North Korea, Myanmar and Vietnam are largely unreachable except by way of shortwave radio. Also within range of Guam’s broadcasting site, India and Indonesia receive numerous programs in multiple languages.



How on Earth are they paying the power bill to transmit mega-millions of watts every day?


You seem very confused, read up on ERP en.wikipedia.org...


If you enjoy reading look up what the former Nazi Wernher Von Braun...turned our NASA guy said about the Nazi nuclear bomb...."we gave them to America because you are a Christian nation and wouldn't use them".


Except he never said that at all... why claim he did?


Nazi's made the nuke first.


care to back that up with some facts?


Straight from Von Braun


except he was never part o the nazi nuclear progeramme....


They even created the first remote control bombs. We took them after knocking down Germany and used them on the attack on Guam when we were retaking it from the Japanese.


you really need to do more research, the Azon was developed by the USA before Germany was defeated.... and was first used on the nazi's en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 10-12-2012 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by Pervius
They have mega millions of transmitting power today and are using Directional Radio.


The utter silliness of the rest of your post has been addressed elsewhere. But this is one precious jewel of silliness, I must say. Such a large portion of radio antennas have been DIRECTIONAL forever. Trying to paint it as some sort of a nefarious plot is downright stupid.

"They are using frequencies to control us".

Duh.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 



Did you read the team's notes instead of Nature's hype? "saw it with the naked eye!!" Does that sound like it's a surprised comment, or ho-hum business as usual?

And yet they admitted seeing it with the naked eye. It is what it is - deal with it. Having a look around for yourself wouldn't hurt either. There's a lot to see these days.


Do you think a homeopathist, nay not even that, a FAKE homeopathist, can write something technically apt? Or is that best left to someone with a clue?

I don't share your disdain for homeopathy. Dr. Begich brings exhaustively researched information on HAARP as mind control to the table in a format that is relatively easy to understand. Anyone, of reasonable intelligence, COULD have done that BUT Begich is the one who actually did it. If you succeed in putting people off Begich via your slurs, you succeed in making the road of the independent lay researcher more difficult. Although, your claimed area of expertise on HAARP, diesel engines, is not broad enough nor open enough to address HAARP as a soul catcher gadget. It takes a different sort of mental process, perhaps a homeopathic minded process, to look at that.


Did they? Does HAARP emit microwaves? Nope to both.

I find links on the internet that tell me, variously, that Eastlund, ARCO and APTI own the Eastlund patents. If this is a challenge to a links war - no thanks. If you want to discuss corporate or military industrial complex buy-out of patents in this thread - no thanks. And, Mr. Microwave, HAARP beams, tightly, in the RF, pulsed. Two-beam pulsed. Or...did I read somewhere three beams; how about four?

Your microwave garbage arguments...

Difference Between RF and Microwave


Anything between 3Hz and 300GHz is still refered to as RF waves, but they are subdivided depending on the actual frequency. Microwave is the general term used to describe RF waves that starts from UHF (Ultra High Frequency) to EHF (Extremely High Frequency) which covers all frequencies between 300Mhz to 300GHz, lower frequencies are refered to as radio waves while higher frequencies are called millimeter waves.


Introduction to HAARP


This array consists of 15x12 crossed dipole antennas, which together can transmit a total of 3600kW of RF power at frequencies from 2.8 - 10 MHz (HF, high frequency range).



The VLF group focuses on using HAARP to generate ELF and VLF waves through a process called modulated heating.



HAARP is located in a region where large natural currents, known as the auroral electrojet flow through the ionosphere. By turning the HF array on and off (i.e. modulating the HF power) at ELF frequencies, we can also modulate the conductivity of the ionosphere at those frequencies (Ferraro et al., 1982; Stubbe and Kopka, 1977; Tomko et al., 1980). When combined with the electric field that drives the auroral electrojet, the result is a current that oscillates and thus radiates at the modulation frequency: a ELF antenna in the ionosphere.


Talking ELF:

The Effects of Earth's Upper Atmosphere on Radio Signals


Earth's atmosphere, however, acts an opaque barrier to much of the electromagnetic spectrum. The atmosphere absorbs most of the wavelengths shorter than ultraviolet, most of the wavelengths between infrared and microwaves, and most of the longest radio waves. For radio astronomers this leaves only short wave radio to penetrate the atmosphere and bring information about the universe to our Earth-bound instruments. The main frequency ranges allowed to pass through the atmosphere are referred to as the radio _ The radio window consists of frequencies which range from about 5 MHz (5 million hertz) to 30 GHz (30 billion hertz). The low-frequency end of the window is limited by signals being reflected by the ionosphere back into space, while the upper limit is caused by absorption of the radio waves by water vapor and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. As atmospheric conditons change the radio window can expand or shrink. On clear days with perfect conditions signals as high as 300GHz have been detected.


So our atmosphere, our ionosphere, protects us from incoming ELF. In this same way, man-made ELF frequencies, on the wrong side of the ionosphere, do not escape. They stay here, bouncing, to pre-determined trajectories, doing their dirty business of apathy entrainment.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

But help me out here and tell me, if you know, why this is unusual. (Keep it simple.)

HAARP Hits Moon With Radio Waves


The lunar echo measurements at 7.4075 MHZ are believed to be the lowest frequency (longest wavelength) at which bi-static radar measurements have been conducted.


The Effects of Earth's Upper Atmosphere on Radio Signals


The main frequency ranges allowed to pass through the atmosphere are referred to as the radio _ The radio window consists of frequencies which range from about 5 MHz (5 million hertz) to 30 GHz (30 billion hertz). The low-frequency end of the window is limited by signals being reflected by the ionosphere back into space, while the upper limit is caused by absorption of the radio waves by water vapor and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. As atmospheric conditons change the radio window can expand or shrink. On clear days with perfect conditions signals as high as 300GHz have been detected.



3MHz is the lowest frequency which will pass through the ionosphere.


Is it because it's getting down close to this 5 mega herz or 3 mega herz limit and because it's man-made?


Interesting stuff - thanks, but I am not sure why you think this is unusual??


I dont' think the ionosphere's physics care whether a signal is man made or not.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Uncinus

Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:
www.npiee.org...


He also states he was using ELF, and then shows you a picture of the VHF rig he was using.


Quit bringing dis-information to this thread. He talked about watts, not herz. Please point out where in the video he mentioned a frequency.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

I don't share your disdain for homeopathy. Dr. Begich brings exhaustively researched information on HAARP as mind control to the table in a format that is relatively easy to understand. Anyone, of reasonable intelligence, COULD have done that BUT Begich is the one who actually did it. If you succeed in putting people off Begich via your slurs, you succeed in making the road of the independent lay researcher more difficult. Although, your claimed area of expertise on HAARP, diesel engines, is not broad enough nor open enough to address HAARP as a soul catcher gadget. It takes a different sort of mental process, perhaps a homeopathic minded process, to look at that.


I don't think the point was some much that he was a homeopath, weak though that is, but that he is a FAKE homeopath, having got his "Doctor of Medicine" degree from The Open International University for Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka, a known diploma mill that awards degrees for cash.

Source:
www.earthpulse.com...

You are quite right though, pretty much anyone could have put together his collection of speculation, dot connections, and pseudoscience. You yourself are very good at it. Perhaps you should consider writing a book?



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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From what is out there, you would be nieve at best to think the government would tell you what HAARP is for., since it appears to be designed for radio surveillance , and to look as far beneath the crust of the Earth. And that is just what is admitted. To look within DARPA budgets for answers is hilarious, dude.
edit on 10-12-2012 by Speckle because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-12-2012 by Speckle because: add



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Speckle
From what is out there, you would be nieve at best to think the government would tell you what HAARP is for., since it appears to be designed for radio surveillance ,


what about its appearance tells you that?


and to look as far beneath the crust of the Earth.


ditto?


And that is just what is admitted.


where is that admitted??


To look within DARPA budgets for answers is hilarious, dude.


not to look at ALL the available evidence is to admit ignorance - and this place is supposed to be about denying ignorance.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by Bedlam
He also states he was using ELF, and then shows you a picture of the VHF rig he was using.


Quit bringing dis-information to this thread. He talked about watts, not herz. Please point out where in the video he mentioned a frequency.


Bedlam didn't say he mentioned VHF - he said that the video uses a PICTURE of a VHF rig.

Capice??






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