Little HAARP's

reply to post by Phage

You have talked about sprites, jets, and elves which are really fascinating but the storms which produce them do not originate in the ionosphere. Lightning storms originate in the troposphere.

Yes...these are the phenomena that I've talked about. Phenomena that have been in the news since HAARP went online. Here's the difference between me and you: I look at the news as what 'they' want me to know and you look at it as fact. News took a left turn awhile back and just kept on going. They have become confused with the editorial page. That doesn't mean that we have to do the same thing. News is who, what, when, where and, if known, why and how. Opinions, propoganda, have no place on the news page - that's for the editorial section.

Lightning is like chemtrails, in the pseudo NSA science world. It's all natural. And you better believe it's natural and not HAARP initiated.

People, persons, though, are hungry for the truth.

Intermission:

Hungry Heart

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus

 

So while the camera flash is equal in strength to the stadium light, it's really not as powerful, as it only matches it during the actual flash, the "momentary peak output".

Just going to cut to the chase here. Remember in the early 2000's (you've said before that you live or have lived in SO CA) we had the rolling brownouts? Really was a big deal because it impacted on the traffic signals and we love our cars and one flashing yellow light can wreck things for miles. It was attributed to the lapse of a contract and an outrageously pricey interim solution.

Fast forward to 2012 or possibly the very last part of 2011. I'm in a different part of the country that requires air conditioning just to live. Things go along smoothly without problem until one day, all of a sudden, the electricity output becomes intermittant. Still paying the same price but getting, intermittantly, almost nothing for my buck. Calls to the power company etc. etc. produce the information that the existing wiring in the entire section is substandard and so they've had to cut their input in order to be safe. Wrecked several surge protectors and a number of batteries for me in the process.

So...once, twice...could still be coincidence but it is ringing some alarm bells. HAARP, in Alaska, says it's not on the local power grid for their 4 giga watt ERP. Don't know what HIPAS was doing as far as the local grid. But I'm suspicious.

You haven't convinced me that 'you have no power here' and, further, in Alaska, I would imagine, like some altitudes I've lived in, the most efficient heating remains the enclosed pot belly (or rectangular belly) that can be adjusted as far as oxygen flow. That's off the grid. Leaves a lot of power unused. Not adding up.

You are not making any sense at all. People in Alaska use wood burning stoves, therefore there's power left over for HAARP to affect the weather???

And you know ERP is not the actual power used, right? It USES 3.6MW. 1/1000 of the ERP.

en.wikipedia.org...

For example, an FM radio station which advertises that it has 100,000 watts of power actually has 100,000 watts ERP, and not an actual 100,000-watt transmitter. The TPO of such a station typically may be 10,000 to 20,000 watts, with a gain factor of 5 to 10 (5× to 10×, or 7 to 10 dB). In most antenna designs, gain is realized primarily by concentrating power toward the horizontal plane and suppressing it at upward and downward angles, through the use of phased arrays of antenna elements.

en.wikipedia.org...

[HAARP]officially began full operations in its final 3.6 MW transmitter power completed status in the summer of 2007, yielding an effective radiated power (ERP) of 5.1 Gigawatts or 97.1 dBW at maximum output. However, the site typically operates at a fraction of that value due to the lower antenna gain exhibited at standard operational frequencies.

HAARP has a high ERP for low input because it's highly concentrated (upwards) in a narrow beam. But it's still only broadcasting 3.6MW of power. It generates this with on-site diesel generators, using about 10MW total.

So wood burning stoves have nothing to do with anything.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Yes...these are the phenomena that I've talked about. Phenomena that have been in the news since HAARP went online.

So what? They were observed long before HAARP existed.

Here's the difference between me and you: I look at the news as what 'they' want me to know and you look at it as fact.

Here's the actual difference between you and me; I understand that "the news" can't get science right. I don't rely on them to do so.

You don't understand something and are afraid of it. You believe the nonsense that people like Begich belch. When I don't understand something I try to do so. I don't go doing keyword searches and picking out of context statements to prove to myself that it really is something to be afraid of. There are more than enough real life things to worry about.

You said lightning storms originate in the ionosphere. You have presented no evidence of that being the case.

Originally posted by wujotvowujotvowujotvo

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Phage

 

Gigantic Jets Connect Thunderclouds to the Ionosphere

Now scientists have discovered another type of lightning--gigantic jets--that link the tops of clouds to the overlying charged atmosphere, known as the ionosphere.

All five jets, the authors write, "establish a direct link between a thundercloud and the ionosphere," and measurements showed that there was a significant flow of current moving charge upward from the clouds. The researchers also detected extremely-low-frequency radio waves that were detected thousands of kilometers away during four of the five events.

I love how the debunker team like to confuse Luxordelphi.

For example, continuous as in operation schedule vs. constant or pulsed aspect.

Luxordelphi replied to schedule, while critics replied on the technical aspect.

Lightning origin. No one has addressed the above quoted study.

Critics focus on the strict lightning while Luxordelphi referred to the triggers, which in the current science literature there is heated debate on ionospheric processes as a trigger mechanism.

Had my head turned the other way on that pulse business. Never saw them coming. Thx for reminding me of my own silver bullets.

The lightning? That one seems like too hard a concept to put across here. Still, if you put up a thread in the chemtrail forum, you have to be prepared to deal with every pea shooter.

Blue Moon - The Marcels - 1961

Originally posted by Pervius
The first weaponized use of directional radio was by the Nazi's in WWII.

Who took control of the former nazi high power radio towers after WWII?

"TWR".....supposedly a christian outfit to blast the 'word' around the globe. Why would a christian group need directional radio and where on earth have they been getting their fortune to power their millions of watts transmitters every year?? Why have they been TRIPLING their transmitting power the last year or two?

Look at the name of the top guy running that outfit and see if you notice a CIA familiy affiliation.....

Pervius: your post is kind of a nutshell of the concepts and visual in my OP. And you're asking the question: what do the government contractors of today look like and where are they? It's a wired world alright (Paul Allen) but who wired it and for what end?

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this some kind of static earth theory of yours? How do they get a signature in tomography then? More spontaneous combustion?

It's magnetotelluric imaging. No shaking needed. Or happening.

HAARP Technology Words from project managers

10:06/Brooks Agnew/Earth Tomographer: In 1983 I did radiotomography with 30 wattslooking for oil in the ground...30 watts of power beaming straight into solid rock...HAARP uses a billion watts beamed straight into the ionosphere for experiments. Picture these strings on the piano as layers of the earth; each one has its' own frequency. What we used to do was beam radio waves into the ground and it would vibrate any strings that were present in the ground...We were able to identify each frequency...if you do this with a billion watts, the vibrations are so violent that the entire piano would shake; in fact the whole house would shake; in fact the vibrations could be so severe underground that it could even cause an earthquake.

Magnetotelluric imaging uses ELF. My experience with tomography begins and ends with the descriptions in this video (above) and a JPL open house I attended once. So I am open to information on this subject. If a location targeted for exploration currently resonates at 7 Herz (ELF), for instance, and an ELF frequency of 9.5 Herz is directed there, it would create a resonance of 2.5 Herz (the remainder) (the earthquake frequency). Previously in this thread I put up a study of the Northridge (SO CA) earthquake by USGS. This earthquake occurred in a place where there was (thought to be) no fault line. I had information, at the time, that this earthquake was man-made, initiated. It's information that I've never been able to prove or disprove.

Magnetotelluric imaging uses electromagnetism. So how is this 'safe' in terms of what the tomographer is saying? How is it different from tomography? What happened to the ELF while HAARP was learning how to direct it?

reply to post by Bedlam

Except the aurorae you create require image intensifiers to see, and the other two don't happen from HAARP.

Not true.

Artificial ionosphere creates bullseye in the sky

HAARP's high-frequency radio waves can accelerate electrons in the atmosphere, increasing the energy of their collisions and creating a glow. The technique has previously triggered speckles of light while running at a power of almost 1 megawatt1. But since the facility ramped up to 3.6 megawatts — roughly three times more than a typical broadcast radio transmitter — it has created full-scale artificial auroras that are visible to the naked eye.

But in February last year, HAARP managed to induce a strange bullseye pattern in the night sky. Instead of the expected fuzzy, doughnut-shaped blob, surprising irregular luminescent bands radiated out from the centre of the bullseye, says Todd Pedersen, a research physicist at the US Air Force Research Laboratory in Massachusetts, who leads the team that ran the experiment at HAARP.

The article, though, is really about using HAARP to create plasma. The intent is not to create all the wierd visual phenomena. That phenomena is just a by-product of creating plasma.

Except most "serious researchers" into HAARP - Begich for example - are buffoons.

So tell me true, in light of your consistent rag on Begich, do you think a cat may look at a queen? Or is that best left to the propoganda experts?

If HAARP radiated HPM, then it would look like Eastlund's patent. Why would he not sue? Did he? Hm.

ARCO owned Eastlund's patents.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this some kind of static earth theory of yours? How do they get a signature in tomography then? More spontaneous combustion?

It's magnetotelluric imaging. No shaking needed. Or happening.

HAARP Technology Words from project managers

10:06/Brooks Agnew/Earth Tomographer: In 1983 I did radiotomography with 30 wattslooking for oil in the ground...30 watts of power beaming straight into solid rock...HAARP uses a billion watts beamed straight into the ionosphere for experiments. Picture these strings on the piano as layers of the earth; each one has its' own frequency. What we used to do was beam radio waves into the ground and it would vibrate any strings that were present in the ground...We were able to identify each frequency...if you do this with a billion watts, the vibrations are so violent that the entire piano would shake; in fact the whole house would shake; in fact the vibrations could be so severe underground that it could even cause an earthquake.

Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:
www.npiee.org...

reply to post by Bedlam

The other one's a pulse output. You've got a resonant antenna design, you charge the two halves of the dipole so that you've got a really high potential between the two sides, and then you laser trigger a spark gap between the two. The antenna rings like a bell. You get a classic damped waveform. It's pulse, not continuous wave.

So this two-frequency (or multiple frequency) pulse is what creates the non-linear, thousand fold amplification? I may have been under another misconception here. I thought the two-frequency pulse was to spawn the ELF. But it's actually for power? That would make a heck of a lot more sense as far as the creation of plasma. The whole ELF mind-control thing would then become like putting the toxic waste from the original experiment to another profitable use.

No, no, not at all. GWEN's dead. GWEN was a LF system that didn't depend on ionospheric bounce - it used ground wave propagation, thus the GW part of GWEN. If you have a nuke exchange or a few high altitude blasts, the ionosphere will become undependable for some time. In some places, you'll get enhancement to the point that it'll be tough to get VHF through it consistently. In others, it will be so ripply and distorted that HF will become capricious and unreliable. So what you do is not depend on ionospherics, and you radiate in ground wave instead. No bounce, no problems.

This is a really cool explanation.

Oh, and it was never underground. It looks like any other LF dipole setup on first glance.

The copper wire? What did the ELF travel in? How was it directed, for instance, toward a submarine which is ambient, not stationary.

Originally posted by Pervius
The first weaponized use of directional radio was by the Nazi's in WWII.

Sure about that? care to provide some proof.... any at all?

Who took control of the former nazi high power radio towers after WWII?

"TWR".....supposedly a christian outfit to blast the 'word' around the globe.

Except for the fact that

Trans World Radio was founded on February 11, 1952

Do you even know why directional radio is used? It appears you do not!

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Not true.

Did you read the team's notes instead of Nature's hype? "saw it with the naked eye!!" Does that sound like it's a surprised comment, or ho-hum business as usual?

So tell me true, in light of your consistent rag on Begich, do you think a cat may look at a queen? Or is that best left to the propoganda experts?

Do you think a homeopathist, nay not even that, a FAKE homeopathist, can write something technically apt? Or is that best left to someone with a clue?

ARCO owned Eastlund's patents.

Did they? Does HAARP emit microwaves? Nope to both.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:
www.npiee.org...

He also states he was using ELF, and then shows you a picture of the VHF rig he was using.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

No, no, not at all. GWEN's dead. GWEN was a LF system that didn't depend on ionospheric bounce - it used ground wave propagation, thus the GW part of GWEN. If you have a nuke exchange or a few high altitude blasts, the ionosphere will become undependable for some time. In some places, you'll get enhancement to the point that it'll be tough to get VHF through it consistently. In others, it will be so ripply and distorted that HF will become capricious and unreliable. So what you do is not depend on ionospherics, and you radiate in ground wave instead. No bounce, no problems.

This is a really cool explanation.

Oh, and it was never underground. It looks like any other LF dipole setup on first glance.

The copper wire? What did the ELF travel in? How was it directed, for instance, toward a submarine which is ambient, not stationary.

GWEN did not use ELF, it used LF, 30-300 kHz. Ground waves diffract and refract around the earth, they travel "in" the air and the earth. GWEN did not directly communicate with submarines, but would relay a message to and ELF facility like Clam Lake. ELF submarine communication systems use wire strung on poles between two conductors about about 30-40 miles apart, creating a large antenna with the earth circuit.
en.wikipedia.org...

Electromagnetic waves in the ELF frequency range (3–300 Hz) (see also SLF) can penetrate seawater to depths of hundreds of meters, allowing communication with submarines at their operating depths. Building an ELF transmitter is a formidable challenge, as they have to work at incredibly long wavelengths: The US Navy's system (called Seafarer) operated at 76 hertz,[1] the Soviet/Russian system (called ZEVS) at 82 hertz.[2] The latter corresponds to a wavelength of 3,658.5 kilometers. That is more than a quarter of the Earth's diameter. Obviously, the usual half-wavelength dipole antenna cannot be constructed, as it would spread across a large country.

Instead, one has to find an area with very low ground conductivity (a requirement opposite to usual radio transmitter sites), bury two huge electrodes in the ground at different sites, and then feed lines to them from a station in the middle, in the form of wires on poles. Although other separations are possible, 60 kilometers is the distance used by the ZEVS transmitter located near Murmansk. As the ground conductivity is poor, the current between the electrodes will penetrate deep into the Earth, essentially using a large part of the globe as an antenna. The antenna length in Republic, Michigan was approximately 52 kilometers (32 mi). The antenna is very inefficient. To drive it, a dedicated power plant seems to be required, although the power emitted as radiation is only a few watts. Its transmission can be received virtually anywhere.

reply to post by buddhasystem

My background is in physics and specifically nuclear instruments. I read the page you cited here, and it doesn't make an iota of sense.

This was a kind of excerpted thing I found on the portable HAARP:

HAARP On a Budget

note: although technical in nature, this excerpt condensed from freepatentsonline.com shows what Dr. Bernard Eastlund had in mind when he submitted his application for a patent on a portable HAARP related invention.

In my readings about HAARP so far: when HAARP heats, it creates a new patch of ionosphere next to the existing one. It does this by breaking down the atmosphere. Plasma is generated.

The cosmic ray also breaks down the atmosphere.




Cosmic Rays/NASA

The CERN facility can also break down the atmosphere with their collisions.

The patent, in my understanding, proposes to utilize the cosmic ray and cut costs and energy requirements.

The reason for the large power requirements is the high value of the electric field needed to “breakdown” the air and create an ionized region.

The objective of this invention is to provide a method and apparatus for economically and reliably generating artificially ionized plasma patterns in the air for a wide range of practical applications.

This invention also removes the altitude limitation on producing artificial ionized regions in the air and allows such regions to be produced from sea level to about 80 km.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So this two-frequency (or multiple frequency) pulse is what creates the non-linear, thousand fold amplification? I may have been under another misconception here. I thought the two-frequency pulse was to spawn the ELF. But it's actually for power? That would make a heck of a lot more sense as far as the creation of plasma. The whole ELF mind-control thing would then become like putting the toxic waste from the original experiment to another profitable use.

The amplification is more an aspect of parts of the ionosphere and inner magnetosphere. Are you interested? It's sort of eggheaded, but I think I can pull up the non-classified source material they provided bidders for the satellite version of the HAND cyclotron resonance experiments. Maybe - I'm about 1900 miles away from my desk. But it's likely you won't like it - it's mostly government sourced like DTIC stuff, or from scholarly papers associated with government projects.

The "Hertzian antenna" thing that was being discussed upthread is the pulse transmitter - it's basically a spark gap sort of rig.

HAARP doesn't emit ELF directly, nor does the HIPAS rig. HAARP induces the electrojet to emit ELF, but you can't do it all the time and the efficiency is nearly as horrible as Sanguine and Seafarer. ELF doesn't do mind control.

BTW, the amount of information that you can convey with a radio signal is directly proportional to the frequency, by the time you're down to ELF the bit rate is worse than an old 300 baud modem. It doesn't really lend itself to conveying images or voices. Also, like any other EM, the minimum focal size is also related to the wavelength, so you can't make tiny foci with it.

The copper wire? What did the ELF travel in? How was it directed, for instance, toward a submarine which is ambient, not stationary.

GWEN wasn't ELF. It was up around 160kHz, IIRC.

ELF isn't directional. It's too damn big. It's horrifyingly inefficient. It can't convey a lot of info. The one thing it's got going for it is that it is low frequency, and Maxwell's equations dictate that dissipative loss in a medium is directly proportional to the frequency. In this case, the medium is salt water. It's conductive. The path loss in salt water is friggin' heinous, even for ELF, but it's a lot worse for, say HF than ELF by orders of magnitude.

So if you're trying to communicate to a sub (it only goes that way) at least you can get ELF to it, whereas there's nothing much left of higher frequencies. Now, you can't get much there. And ELF being a really really LONG wavelength, you can't mount a very efficient antenna. Subs used to trail an active detector that was less an antenna than an e-field slope detector. Eventually they stopped trailing an array and started using a SQUID to detect the h-field component of the ELF signal. Now they don't use it at all.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Magnetotelluric imaging uses ELF. My experience with tomography begins and ends with the descriptions in this video (above) and a JPL open house I attended once. So I am open to information on this subject. If a location targeted for exploration currently resonates at 7 Herz (ELF), for instance, and an ELF frequency of 9.5 Herz is directed there, it would create a resonance of 2.5 Herz (the remainder) (the earthquake frequency). Previously in this thread I put up a study of the Northridge (SO CA) earthquake by USGS. This earthquake occurred in a place where there was (thought to be) no fault line. I had information, at the time, that this earthquake was man-made, initiated. It's information that I've never been able to prove or disprove.

Magnetotelluric imaging uses electromagnetism. So how is this 'safe' in terms of what the tomographer is saying? How is it different from tomography? What happened to the ELF while HAARP was learning how to direct it?

Brooks Agnew was using a ground penetrating radar. It's not ELF.

Locations don't "resonate" at a frequency - I'm assuming that you're referring to an EM frequency, since you're also talking about magnetotellurics and Brooks Agnew.

Oh, also, if you HAD a resonant circuit, say a parallel tank, and it's tuned to 1MHz, and I hit it with 1.5MHz, it doesn't produce 500kHz as an effect. It just doesn't resonate. Production of sum and difference frequencies is a whole other matter.

Back to magnetotellurics, you can use any source that causes changes in the local magnetic field. What you have to do is put down sensors in a grid over the area you want to survey, and you wait. If you don't want to wait, you use HAARP, I suppose . Otherwise, you will get the signal you want at sunrise, sunset or if you get a bad thunderstorm somewhere in the vicinity, but not where you're at. You want one maybe 50 miles off.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
The CERN facility can also break down the atmosphere with their collisions.

What does CERN have with anything in this thread? And even then, why do you mention CERN and not some other accelerator facility?

Originally posted by Uncinus


HAARP has a high ERP for low input because it's highly concentrated (upwards) in a narrow beam. But it's still only broadcasting 3.6MW of power. It generates this with on-site diesel generators, using about 10MW total.

They found a Natural Gas field in Alaska with enough in its reserve to power all of America for over a year. A politician decided to put something there to use the energy. HAARP. The generators powering HAARP do not use Diesel. It is powered from the Natural Gas field there and is THE only reason it was placed where it was.

At the tiny points they can aim all of it's power at, she's a powerful beast. She also doesn't work alone. There are other facilities that work in tandem along with her to focus on whatever spot they wish to alter.

HAARP transmits at 5.1 GigaWatts, publicly. But since DOD runs it now......it's classified what she operates at.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Pervius

They found a Natural Gas field in Alaska with enough in its reserve to power all of America for over a year. A politician decided to put something there to use the energy. HAARP. The generators powering HAARP do not use Diesel. It is powered from the Natural Gas field there and is THE only reason it was placed where it was.

Not at all. You're mixing a few different stories. HAARP uses diesel.

HAARP transmits at 5.1 GigaWatts, publicly. But since DOD runs it now......it's classified what she operates at.
en.wikipedia.org...

Also untrue.

reply to post by Uncinus

The only "mysterious" thing is how exactly lightning forms in the troposphere. There are a variety of serious hypotheses (the most common being that it's friction from ice crystals and water droplets), but none of them say what you say, that "Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere" - which is just something you found in a five year old cached copy of a Wikipedia page.

Leaving lightning in the realm of phenomenal magic is, imo, not going to be happening. Leaving lightning up to nature is not happening. Therefore, explanations need to be found and disseminated for the new fake lightning. The fake lightning has to be tied to natural lightning in the following ways:
1. We've always seen the thousand lightning strike business; we just never noticed it before.
2. Sprites, elves and tooth fairies have always existed in numbers since the dawn of time; we just never noticed.
3. Heating the ionosphere has no impact on anything.
4. We should try to prove that cosmic rays cause lightning.
To these ends, I offer the following stories:
What Causes Lightning? Scientists Still Looking For Answers

...for all we know, lightning might as well come from Zeus. Counting Ben Franklin's kite-and-key experiment as the starting point, 250 years of scientific investigation have yet to get to grips with how lightning works.
Lightning confounds much of scientists' understanding of basic physics. But according to Dwyer, progress has recently picked up the pace. "We have a lot of ways of measuring lightning and storms that weren't available a few years ago. We can look at the radio signals coming out of them. We can trigger lightning, so that we can know where to point our cameras and instruments. Ten years ago we realized that lightning produces X-rays and gamma rays, which was unexpected. This has given us new insight into what's going on. So we're making a lot of progress."
As of yet, it seems Zeus' wrath has technically not been ruled out...

The mystery of what causes lightning

Scientists are still puzzled as to what triggers a spark during a thunderstorm. The latest attempt to answer the question only adds to the intrigue.
It seems hard to believe that we still don’t understand what causes lightning during thunderstorms – but that’s a fact.
While many details of this process aren’t at all clear, one of the biggest mysteries is how the spark gets triggered. Since the electrical fields measured in thunderclouds don’t seem nearly big enough to induce a lightning discharge spontaneously, something is needed to “seed” it. One idea is that they are triggered by cosmic rays streaming into the atmosphere from space.

While we digest that and prepare ourselves to rewrite the book on just about everything in order to have our experiments in the ionosphere, along with the phenomena they produce, classified as natural, let's pause and have a look at what HAARP is doing when it comes to lightning:
HAARP 2013 Budget And Plans

This thrust of the 2013 program, budgeted at $11 million, will obtain insights into physical aspects of natural phenomena such as magnetospheric sub-storms, fire, lightning, and geo-physical phenomena. New fundamental understandings of these phenomena will enable the ability to predict and exploit these physical processes, especially with regard to communications.

FY 2010 Accomplishments:
- Developed theoretical models for triggered lightning, transient luminous events, lightning-induced electron precipitation and related ionospheric phenomena.
- Developed theoretical models for lightning initiation, propagation, and attachment.
FY 2011 Accomplishments:
- Conduct comprehensive research campaigns using both triggered and natural lightning during the fall/winter storm seasons to measure all atmospheric, electromagnetic and ionospheric phenomena associated with positively-charged-winter-time lightning.
- Conduct comprehensive fall/winter research campaigns to study the initiation of transient luminous events, early VLF events, and lightning-induced electron precipitation events by providing the known event timing, location, and properties inherent to rocket-triggered lightning.
FY 2012 Plans:
- Conduct comprehensive HAARP-ULF experiments to study the onset of noise under a variety of space-weather conditions.
- Develop, implement and test a continuously-operational, extensive array of instruments which will measure all atmospheric and electromagnetic components of tropospheric lightning and correlate this phenomenon with various ionospheric events.