You have talked about sprites, jets, and elves which are really fascinating but the storms which produce them do not originate in the ionosphere. Lightning storms originate in the troposphere.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus

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So while the camera flash is equal in strength to the stadium light, it's really not as powerful, as it only matches it during the actual flash, the "momentary peak output".

Just going to cut to the chase here. Remember in the early 2000's (you've said before that you live or have lived in SO CA) we had the rolling brownouts? Really was a big deal because it impacted on the traffic signals and we love our cars and one flashing yellow light can wreck things for miles. It was attributed to the lapse of a contract and an outrageously pricey interim solution.

Fast forward to 2012 or possibly the very last part of 2011. I'm in a different part of the country that requires air conditioning just to live. Things go along smoothly without problem until one day, all of a sudden, the electricity output becomes intermittant. Still paying the same price but getting, intermittantly, almost nothing for my buck. Calls to the power company etc. etc. produce the information that the existing wiring in the entire section is substandard and so they've had to cut their input in order to be safe. Wrecked several surge protectors and a number of batteries for me in the process.

So...once, twice...could still be coincidence but it is ringing some alarm bells. HAARP, in Alaska, says it's not on the local power grid for their 4 giga watt ERP. Don't know what HIPAS was doing as far as the local grid. But I'm suspicious.

You haven't convinced me that 'you have no power here' and, further, in Alaska, I would imagine, like some altitudes I've lived in, the most efficient heating remains the enclosed pot belly (or rectangular belly) that can be adjusted as far as oxygen flow. That's off the grid. Leaves a lot of power unused. Not adding up.

For example, an FM radio station which advertises that it has 100,000 watts of power actually has 100,000 watts ERP, and not an actual 100,000-watt transmitter. The TPO of such a station typically may be 10,000 to 20,000 watts, with a gain factor of 5 to 10 (5× to 10×, or 7 to 10 dB). In most antenna designs, gain is realized primarily by concentrating power toward the horizontal plane and suppressing it at upward and downward angles, through the use of phased arrays of antenna elements.

[HAARP]officially began full operations in its final 3.6 MW transmitter power completed status in the summer of 2007, yielding an effective radiated power (ERP) of 5.1 Gigawatts or 97.1 dBW at maximum output. However, the site typically operates at a fraction of that value due to the lower antenna gain exhibited at standard operational frequencies.

Yes...these are the phenomena that I've talked about. Phenomena that have been in the news since HAARP went online.

Here's the difference between me and you: I look at the news as what 'they' want me to know and you look at it as fact.

Originally posted by wujotvowujotvowujotvo

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Phage

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Gigantic Jets Connect Thunderclouds to the Ionosphere

Now scientists have discovered another type of lightning--gigantic jets--that link the tops of clouds to the overlying charged atmosphere, known as the ionosphere.

All five jets, the authors write, "establish a direct link between a thundercloud and the ionosphere," and measurements showed that there was a significant flow of current moving charge upward from the clouds. The researchers also detected extremely-low-frequency radio waves that were detected thousands of kilometers away during four of the five events.

I love how the debunker team like to confuse Luxordelphi.

For example, continuous as in operation schedule vs. constant or pulsed aspect.

Luxordelphi replied to schedule, while critics replied on the technical aspect.

Lightning origin. No one has addressed the above quoted study.

Critics focus on the strict lightning while Luxordelphi referred to the triggers, which in the current science literature there is heated debate on ionospheric processes as a trigger mechanism.

10:06/Brooks Agnew/Earth Tomographer: In 1983 I did radiotomography with 30 wattslooking for oil in the ground...30 watts of power beaming straight into solid rock...HAARP uses a billion watts beamed straight into the ionosphere for experiments. Picture these strings on the piano as layers of the earth; each one has its' own frequency. What we used to do was beam radio waves into the ground and it would vibrate any strings that were present in the ground...We were able to identify each frequency...if you do this with a billion watts, the vibrations are so violent that the entire piano would shake; in fact the whole house would shake; in fact the vibrations could be so severe underground that it could even cause an earthquake.

Except the aurorae you create require image intensifiers to see, and the other two don't happen from HAARP.

HAARP's high-frequency radio waves can accelerate electrons in the atmosphere, increasing the energy of their collisions and creating a glow. The technique has previously triggered speckles of light while running at a power of almost 1 megawatt1. But since the facility ramped up to 3.6 megawatts — roughly three times more than a typical broadcast radio transmitter — it has created full-scale artificial auroras that are visible to the naked eye.

But in February last year, HAARP managed to induce a strange bullseye pattern in the night sky. Instead of the expected fuzzy, doughnut-shaped blob, surprising irregular luminescent bands radiated out from the centre of the bullseye, says Todd Pedersen, a research physicist at the US Air Force Research Laboratory in Massachusetts, who leads the team that ran the experiment at HAARP.

Except most "serious researchers" into HAARP - Begich for example - are buffoons.

If HAARP radiated HPM, then it would look like Eastlund's patent. Why would he not sue? Did he? Hm.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this some kind of static earth theory of yours? How do they get a signature in tomography then? More spontaneous combustion?

It's magnetotelluric imaging. No shaking needed. Or happening.

HAARP Technology Words from project managers

10:06/Brooks Agnew/Earth Tomographer: In 1983 I did radiotomography with 30 wattslooking for oil in the ground...30 watts of power beaming straight into solid rock...HAARP uses a billion watts beamed straight into the ionosphere for experiments. Picture these strings on the piano as layers of the earth; each one has its' own frequency. What we used to do was beam radio waves into the ground and it would vibrate any strings that were present in the ground...We were able to identify each frequency...if you do this with a billion watts, the vibrations are so violent that the entire piano would shake; in fact the whole house would shake; in fact the vibrations could be so severe underground that it could even cause an earthquake.

The other one's a pulse output. You've got a resonant antenna design, you charge the two halves of the dipole so that you've got a really high potential between the two sides, and then you laser trigger a spark gap between the two. The antenna rings like a bell. You get a classic damped waveform. It's pulse, not continuous wave.

No, no, not at all. GWEN's dead. GWEN was a LF system that didn't depend on ionospheric bounce - it used ground wave propagation, thus the GW part of GWEN. If you have a nuke exchange or a few high altitude blasts, the ionosphere will become undependable for some time. In some places, you'll get enhancement to the point that it'll be tough to get VHF through it consistently. In others, it will be so ripply and distorted that HF will become capricious and unreliable. So what you do is not depend on ionospherics, and you radiate in ground wave instead. No bounce, no problems.

Oh, and it was never underground. It looks like any other LF dipole setup on first glance.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Brooks Agnew also believes the Earth is hollow, and he's off the the North Pole next summer to find the way in:
www.npiee.org...

YouTube Link

Electromagnetic waves in the ELF frequency range (3–300 Hz) (see also SLF) can penetrate seawater to depths of hundreds of meters, allowing communication with submarines at their operating depths. Building an ELF transmitter is a formidable challenge, as they have to work at incredibly long wavelengths: The US Navy's system (called Seafarer) operated at 76 hertz,[1] the Soviet/Russian system (called ZEVS) at 82 hertz.[2] The latter corresponds to a wavelength of 3,658.5 kilometers. That is more than a quarter of the Earth's diameter. Obviously, the usual half-wavelength dipole antenna cannot be constructed, as it would spread across a large country.

Instead, one has to find an area with very low ground conductivity (a requirement opposite to usual radio transmitter sites), bury two huge electrodes in the ground at different sites, and then feed lines to them from a station in the middle, in the form of wires on poles. Although other separations are possible, 60 kilometers is the distance used by the ZEVS transmitter located near Murmansk. As the ground conductivity is poor, the current between the electrodes will penetrate deep into the Earth, essentially using a large part of the globe as an antenna. The antenna length in Republic, Michigan was approximately 52 kilometers (32 mi). The antenna is very inefficient. To drive it, a dedicated power plant seems to be required, although the power emitted as radiation is only a few watts. Its transmission can be received virtually anywhere.

My background is in physics and specifically nuclear instruments. I read the page you cited here, and it doesn't make an iota of sense.

note: although technical in nature, this excerpt condensed from freepatentsonline.com shows what Dr. Bernard Eastlund had in mind when he submitted his application for a patent on a portable HAARP related invention.

The reason for the large power requirements is the high value of the electric field needed to “breakdown” the air and create an ionized region.

The objective of this invention is to provide a method and apparatus for economically and reliably generating artificially ionized plasma patterns in the air for a wide range of practical applications.

This invention also removes the altitude limitation on producing artificial ionized regions in the air and allows such regions to be produced from sea level to about 80 km.

HAARP transmits at 5.1 GigaWatts, publicly. But since DOD runs it now......it's classified what she operates at.
en.wikipedia.org...

The only "mysterious" thing is how exactly lightning forms in the troposphere. There are a variety of serious hypotheses (the most common being that it's friction from ice crystals and water droplets), but none of them say what you say, that "Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere" - which is just something you found in a five year old cached copy of a Wikipedia page.

...for all we know, lightning might as well come from Zeus. Counting Ben Franklin's kite-and-key experiment as the starting point, 250 years of scientific investigation have yet to get to grips with how lightning works.
Lightning confounds much of scientists' understanding of basic physics. But according to Dwyer, progress has recently picked up the pace. "We have a lot of ways of measuring lightning and storms that weren't available a few years ago. We can look at the radio signals coming out of them. We can trigger lightning, so that we can know where to point our cameras and instruments. Ten years ago we realized that lightning produces X-rays and gamma rays, which was unexpected. This has given us new insight into what's going on. So we're making a lot of progress."
As of yet, it seems Zeus' wrath has technically not been ruled out...

Scientists are still puzzled as to what triggers a spark during a thunderstorm. The latest attempt to answer the question only adds to the intrigue.
It seems hard to believe that we still don’t understand what causes lightning during thunderstorms – but that’s a fact.
While many details of this process aren’t at all clear, one of the biggest mysteries is how the spark gets triggered. Since the electrical fields measured in thunderclouds don’t seem nearly big enough to induce a lightning discharge spontaneously, something is needed to “seed” it. One idea is that they are triggered by cosmic rays streaming into the atmosphere from space.

This thrust of the 2013 program, budgeted at $11 million, will obtain insights into physical aspects of natural phenomena such as magnetospheric sub-storms, fire, lightning, and geo-physical phenomena. New fundamental understandings of these phenomena will enable the ability to predict and exploit these physical processes, especially with regard to communications.

FY 2010 Accomplishments:
- Developed theoretical models for triggered lightning, transient luminous events, lightning-induced electron precipitation and related ionospheric phenomena.
- Developed theoretical models for lightning initiation, propagation, and attachment.
FY 2011 Accomplishments:
- Conduct comprehensive research campaigns using both triggered and natural lightning during the fall/winter storm seasons to measure all atmospheric, electromagnetic and ionospheric phenomena associated with positively-charged-winter-time lightning.
- Conduct comprehensive fall/winter research campaigns to study the initiation of transient luminous events, early VLF events, and lightning-induced electron precipitation events by providing the known event timing, location, and properties inherent to rocket-triggered lightning.
FY 2012 Plans:
- Conduct comprehensive HAARP-ULF experiments to study the onset of noise under a variety of space-weather conditions.
- Develop, implement and test a continuously-operational, extensive array of instruments which will measure all atmospheric and electromagnetic components of tropospheric lightning and correlate this phenomenon with various ionospheric events.